Tucker 1544 IRAN Project

1boringguy

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Seems everyone wants to put race car engine in a tractor !!!!:smileywac

Lol I think it falls directly into the category, 'Whatever you're into man". :thumbup:
 

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The Sweet Wbj1

Active member
Seems everyone wants to put race car engine in a tractor !!!!:smileywac

After spending a week in Colorado at 10,000' with a stock 360 Tucker I was begging for a race car engine.....

First trip up to the cabin took over two hours IIRC. Couldn't hardly get out of 1st gear for the last couple miles. No thank you.


No one even mentioning fuel efficiency gains with an LS swap. I had an old Jeep truck with a 360 in it and the thing got 7-8 mpg. The 6.2 LS in a Denali gets something like 16 MPG IIRC. That has to translate to a Tucker IMO. Not that fuel efficiency is the most important thing, but it is a nice bonus.
 
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DAVENET

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
…….. so, a year ago I posted a few pics of ''updating '' my front 5th whl. plate, when I had it out, because I knew I was going to be install the 4BT, this past summer. I would ''attach '' the link, but i'm horrible at that stuff.... I feel pretty lucky most days ''inserting'' pics...lol..

Found trunnion & pivot shaft work, but nothing posted about any additional plate work. http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showpost.php?p=20696593&postcount=37

If you find it, just click on the port number in the upper right & it will generate a new page (to copy & paste) with just that post's info.
 

1boringguy

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
OO,

Yes, weight aside, I would definitely go the Cummins route I think, low end torque is the right thing for a cat. Measured, my 5th wheel plate is .500 steel. Don't have enough experience to know what that standard design looks like, but the blade framework surely adds some strength. Thanks to DAVENET and when I get a bit I'll see if I can find the posts with the rest of the plate and eng/trans info.

BFT,

Yes, from past experience I agree dyno info is best used to indicate amount of gain per upgrade. Same engine, same dyno. Otherwise they can be pretty subjective, dependent up many variables, and assumptions in calculations. Wheel dynos probably worse than engine dynos.

Certainly everyone's list of considerations is going to look different. And I appreciate everyone sharing their angle, better to ponder all of that ahead of time. Not the least of my thoughts is that my uncle won't be capable of having the shop for to many more years, and the shop grandpa started (and my high school job) surely won't stay in the family. My uncle has had a knowledge and passion in past years for building torque producing mopar engines, so in keeping this cat a little more to era, and in passing it along to Little Capt some day, having my uncle help with this build, well there's all that too. Although I might have to twist his arm a little, as his first comment was, 'well how much power do you really need in that thing anyway'.

Besides it's way more fun to see the outcome of everyone's different upgrades, rather than simply all the same ...... that would be boring :smile:

I will check with Tucker for thoughts, they surely have the advantage when it comes to cumulative experience and R&D.

Thanks all for the input, hope maybe 300 H&H might chime in yet.

Definitely hope to meet all in SV next year.
 

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olympicorange

Active member
……….. hey 1BG, good pics . :thumbup: I haven't had the pleasure of a snow blade unit. I see the .500'' plate,... and the ''massive'' hy-fax block/housing on top. well, that makes a huge plus.... all the non-blade units are a 1/3 of that . someone correct me if i'm wrong ,.. but that's a huge support upgrade. come to think of it, now,.. the newer ''M E '' have the same ''guides''. i'm really surprised that the ''factory o.e.m'' installed units , with the blades, don't have the 5/8'' , automatically.... let us know what ''Tucker'' has to say about all this , and where the upgrades all applied, etc... i'm curious as well..... never hurts to ask,.. I hope they can help ...:thumbup::thumbup:
 

olympicorange

Active member
Found trunnion & pivot shaft work, but nothing posted about any additional plate work. http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showpost.php?p=20696593&postcount=37

If you find it, just click on the port number in the upper right & it will generate a new page (to copy & paste) with just that post's info.


….. thx Dave, my man,... I appreciate the help. hope I can apply it ...lol. so maybe I didn't post the pics of the ''beefing'' of the frt. 5th wheel plate. I 'll look and see for the pics, but in the meantime,.. I took some other pics today... the ''unpainted'' pics are the ones done , when the ''tiller'' was installed, so I copied them,... after I ''killed'' some more snowflakes... :smile:
 

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olympicorange

Active member
…… just occurred to me,, we should move this convo to a new thread,.. we've kinda ''hijacked '' BFT's thread,... pardon's to the ''bear'',...
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Time to update this thread...

With SV 2021 approaching and the 1544’s engine ailing, we decided to try and get the existing engine running properly.

I mentioned this is another thread started by another member, but as much as I would love to replace the 360 Industrial with a nice, powerful, reliable, fuel injected, computer-controlled LS engine that uses technology decades newer (and better) than the 360, the plan is to sell this Tucker, presumably in the not-too-distant future. An LS swap is a lot of work, and a chunk of money. Roughly $4k in parts, not including the cost of the engine, or anything for labor. We thought we would need to get about $10K more for the machine if we swapped in an LS. Snowcat prices have come up substantially, and we think the number of potential buyers willing to pay up for an LS is relatively small, so we decided to spend the necessary time and money to get the 360 running well.

We needed to find out where the problems were, and performed a cylinder leakage test on all the cylinders. Some cylinders were great, some okay and some downright awful. Interestingly, the worst cylinders showed the leakage out the valves. What the heck? The engine had only about 40 hours of use since the heads had been to a machine shop for a valve job. It wasn't a cheapy valve job either: all new exhaust valves and seats, the heads milled to clean, new guides, new seals, etc. We removed the heads and took them back to the machine shop and explained the issues. They tested the sealing of the valves and found most to be great, but the worst had a piece of carbon preventing the valve from properly sealing. YGTBSM, but they removed the valve and cleaned it along with the seat, and then sure enough it sealed. The owner of the machine shop was convinced there was more to the problem than the carbon, and thought there was an issue with the lower end. Maybe a broken piston ring, or two, maybe some stuck rings, but something. I groaned…LOUDLY.

I consider myself a card-carrying Chrysler hater (okay, I don’t carry the card, but I genuinely hate Chryslers (and that includes Fiat, Dodge, Jeep, Ram, and apparently Peugeot will be added to the list, soon.)) The idea of removing the engine to pour money into a rebuild (of a Chrysler, no less) was not a pleasant thought. Scott suggested re-ringing the engine in place. Huh? So he explained what he proposed and that seemed a somewhat palatable solution.

We unbolted the front fifth wheel plate assembly from the Tucker frame, and then the engine from the frame and were able to lift the engine high enough to remove the exhaust pipe (we had previously disconnected the muffler) and then the oil pan. The pistons and connecting rods were all removed and we found nothing wrong with the rings. Lots of carbon on the tops of the pistons, but we already knew that because with the heads removed we could see the carbon.

Now of course good old project creep set in…bigly. The connecting rod bearings showed a surprising amount of wear, so we decided to replace those. “While we’re here” maybe we should take apart the front of the engine and replace the cam. That of course means a new timing chain and sprockets, and new lifters. Hughes Engines are a highly regarded "Chrysler only” company and I sought out their opinion on what would be the optimal cam for our engine and application. Of course it would be helpful to know what we had as far as the existing cam's profile specs, but I have never been able to find much information about Chrysler Industrial engines anywhere, so it was basically putting my trust in Hughes as far as improving the engine’s power output. (A few years ago I was digging around on the Internet and a company called Foley Engines seemed to have some Chrysler Industrial knowledge, so I called them. The fellow introduced himself as “Dr. Diesel”. Really? If you have to assume an Internet persona to sell stuff, then with me your credibility is questionable from the get-go.)

And, once the decision to replace the cam was made... “since it’s apart” let’s replace the water pump, fan belts, hydraulic pump belts and radiator hoses. Yes, it’s that ever present “more money” decision but we felt that a potential buyer would appreciate the new parts rather than reinstalling older parts that are of unknown age. After Scott honed the block and we got the pistons reinstalled, he suggested we replace the rear main seal (still more project creep).

While I solidly agreed with the concept, I couldn’t just go with his suggestion. Replacing the cam was my idea... and he whined somewhat about the extra work. There was no way I could just say okay to replacing the rear main seal without returning the favor and complaining.

Readers should know that poor ol' Blackfoot is the bear that gets poked from multiple sources. Sometimes, it’s none other than our beloved PP. Frequently, it’s The Infamous WBJ1. (Note: If Ruth Bader Ginsburg could be called “The Notorious RBG”, referring to WBJ1 as “The Infamous WBJ1” certainly seems justified.) And on pretty much a daily basis - Scott does the poking. The bear has to get his licks in when he can…

Now we’re waiting for a bunch of parts to arrive from Rock Auto so we can complete the engine reassembly process….
 

olympicorange

Active member
When you open the can..''of worms'',.. the list can grow quickly. being in the diesel business, I have had to deal & buy parts off the N.J. based ,... ''dr. diesel''. he has one opinion for sure ,... his . but you can pull the needed info out of him, if one is persistent & patient enough,.... justifiable ''groans'''.............
 

The Sweet Wbj1

Active member
Frequently, it’s The Infamous WBJ1. (Note: If Ruth Bader Ginsburg could be called “The Notorious RBG”, referring to WBJ1 as “The Infamous WBJ1” certainly seems justified.)

I would like the readers to know I take issue with "Infamous". I really feel like it should be replaced by "Sweetheart", "Kindhearted", "Gentle" or something similar!!

Besides that flagrant mis-naming, it sounds like someone is going to be getting a nice machine that has been thoroughly inspected and repaired which should equal "peace of mind"!
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I would like the readers to know I take issue with "Infamous". I really feel like it should be replaced by "Sweetheart", "Kindhearted", "Gentle" or something similar!!
WBJ1,

Thanks for the laugh! When I say "The Kindhearted WBJ1", "The Sweetheart WBJ1"or "The Gentle WBJ1" I get to enjoy the laugh all over again.

I am genuinely looking forward to seeing you again at SV 2021, and I think anyone who meets WBJ1 at SV 2021 will enjoy the experience...even if he is "Infamous"...
 

Pontoon Princess

Cattitute
GOLD Site Supporter
I would like the readers to know I take issue with "Infamous". I really feel like it should be replaced by "Sweetheart", "Kindhearted", "Gentle" or something similar!!

Besides that flagrant mis-naming, it sounds like someone is going to be getting a nice machine that has been thoroughly inspected and repaired which should equal "peace of mind"!


Bless your heart "Infamous WBJ1" nice try, but you earned the moniker, and may I suggest, wear it with pride, poking the Bear has a Price and you have just made the down payment, as I see it,

the god of Zilla's is not someone, you should not poke too often

and if you persist in poking the Bear, don't think you are going to get out unscathed

see ya sweetheart in Sun Valley,

uber torpedo has your ride scheduled...
 
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SRT-1

New member
Lets set the record straight. When my friends go golfing, that would be the "Jester", the "Polar Bear", the "Hamster", And me, the "Gorilla".
Now you have Blackfoot Tucker try to change his name now to the "bear". As in "poking the Bear". His true name is still the "Hamster".
Given that name by standing with a wide stance to hit the ball. So, his true name should be "The Blackfoot Hamster named Tucker"
hamster_golf.jpg
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I'll try and get this thread back on track...

I know how just about everyone likes pictures, so I'll start with that. Here's the engine stripped of just about everything except the crankshaft and the harmonic balancer, which is pressed on by hand and used to rotate the crankshaft.

IMG_0583.jpeg


The engine has since been fully reassembled and we’ve got everything put back together. Hughes Engines, the manufacturer of the cam, has very explicit instructions for cam break-in procedures, and among other things involves not letting the engine idle below 2,000 RPM for the first 30 minutes. Ten minutes on, ten minutes cooling; then repeat in additional cycles. We did that, and the following night set the initial ignition timing per Hughes' recommendations. But the engine starting process didn’t go exactly as planned, and some may find this story a bit humorous.

Scott and I both have experience rebuilding engines and swapping camshafts... with Chevrolet and Ford engines. It is vitally important that the proper relationship between valve and piston timing be correct. The crankshaft makes two revolutions for one revolution of the camshaft. On both the cam timing gear and the crank timing gear there are machined dots used for alignment. The crankshaft is rotated so the number one cylinder is at top dead center and the crankshaft timing gear should have the dot positioned straight up at the 12 o’clock position. Based on our previous experience with Ford and Chevy, we positioned the camshaft accordingly with the dot at the six o’clock position and perfectly in line with the crankshaft timing gear dot. (The distributor rotor is therefore pointed at the number one cylinder.) Then we proceeded to reassemble the rest of the engine, install the belts and pulleys, etc, etc.

The moment we’ve been waiting for arrives, and we try and start the engine….nothing. Try again and…nothing. Scott heads for his computer to see if we did something wrong, or what the problem might be. Apparently, Chrysler “engineers” decided it was better to machine the cam timing gear so the dot would be straight up at the 12 o’clock position. YGTBSM! My thought is that just as the person who graduates at the bottom of his medical school class gets to be called “doctor”, the person who graduates at the bottom of their engineering school class can say they’re an "engineer”. (My guess is they got hired at Chrysler.)

Aligning the dots as we did positions the rotor pointing to cylinder number six (with firing order 1-8-5-3-6-4-7-2). That would of course explain why the engine wouldn’t start. Getting it squared away isn’t a big deal. You remove the distributor, rotate the shaft 180º and reinstall it. Unsurprisingly, the engine started immediately. While I have jabbed Chrysler pretty hard, the reality is we made assumptions we shouldn’t have. We assumed the concept of dot alignment was industry standard, and it isn’t.

Bonus Question of the day: What is the only American car manufacturer to have been bailed out by the US government twice?

Answer: Chrysler. Shocking… I know.
 

PJL

Well-known member
A long time ago I worked at a gas station that had 2 service bays and full service gas sales. (It was a long time ago.) We didn't sell hot dogs and burritos either. I hated worked on anything Chrysler. It seemed to me that all the metal had razor sharp edges. Working under a dash was like running your knuckles over a cheese grater.

Glad the engine was an easy fix for you.
 
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