I Challenge All The Aviators, Builders and Engineers Here At FF…

[fogtender]

http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=2182


Yep I am just STUPID

Alot of the killing was from the diseases that the Spanish brought to the new world and not the sword, same thing that killed a lot of the American Indians... In their case it was small pox.

But the guys that write the history like to make it more historic and noble with swords and winchesters! Flu, smallpox and VD just don't make it noble...

 

[Cowboy]

Sorry even if i had all the time in the world I wouldn't waste it watching that crap.

Because they like pyramids?

Only humans would build something as useless as a pyramid. The Egyptians did however outsource their security.

Lia - lets us just agree to disagree if you wish to believe that earth has been visited by aliens from other planets and they built the pyramids (or anything else,) feel free to. You certainly have the right to your opinion. I also have the right to my opinion and I don't believe that anyone but humans built the pyramids. Millions of people agree with me. I don't think that having that opinion makes us "stupid" or 'petty."

With all due respect CA , not one post you have made has been very usefull to what appears to be a fairlly serious topic to the original poster as well as maybe a few others . In the OP's post She asked for anyone to take the time to view the video and if anyone does to discuss your thoughts .

That being said, no one expects to change anyones mind or opinions , it is just an interesting set of videos from the history chanell that I think are quite well done and very informative leading one to make up their own mind . If that doesn't interest you fine, but I see no need for you to continue to push your opinion on others by calling this topic "crap" .

 

[Catavenger]

For Lia

 

[Lia]

For Lia

Thank you.

 

[fogtender]

Another reason that the Spanish did so well is the Indians thought the Spanish in their shining Armor were Gods... (Which always reminded me of how Aliens would have been dressed) by the time that they realized the Spaniards were just humans, they had already departed with a lot of the gold and treasures given to them as "Gods".

By that time, most of the Spanish troops were slaughtered, but the diseases were in full swing!

 

[Cowboy]

Just an FYI, My wife and I have watched season one episodes 1 thru 5 and they just keep getting more interesting in my opinion and further more my wife is one of the biggest skeptics on this subject I know. She did agree to watch at least 1 video with an open mind and now has become very interested in them now and looking forward to watching the rest of the series.

She agrees with me that the videos done ( by the history channel ) are very well done and leave a lot of unanswered questions without bias like many of their other series on other interesting subjects . It sure beats the hell out of the reality type shows that tv has to offer these days, so I still dont understand why at least some folks wouldn't find them interesting as we have ourselves. I just would love to here others thoughts on them if they are of any interest to anyone else. I know your out there.

 

[fogtender]

Just an FYI, My wife and I have watched season one episodes 1 thru 5 and they just keep getting more interesting in my opinion and further more my wife is one of the biggest skeptics on this subject I know. She did agree to watch at least 1 video with an open mind and now has become very interested in them now and looking forward to watching the rest of the series.

She agrees with me that the videos done ( by the history channel ) are very well done and leave a lot of unanswered questions without bias like many of their other series on other interesting subjects . It sure beats the hell out of the reality type shows that tv has to offer these days, so I still dont understand why at least some folks wouldn't find them interesting as we have ourselves. I just would love to here others thoughts on them if they are of any interest to anyone else. I know your out there.

I'm a history junkie, so I watch that channel a lot, as well as this series.

When you look at the overall picture of history through multiple windows and not just one window that most people look through, a lot of your views change as Lia's clearly has.

We think nothing as kids having an ant farm, they are totally in bliss of our existence, but yet we watch them. It isn't a very big stretch to imagine that something has been watching us in the same way for centuries... Maybe a little heads up help here and there to point us in the right direction... or not. Maybe they are our "Gods"....

 

[SShepherd]

Alot of the killing was from the diseases that the Spanish brought to the new world and not the sword, same thing that killed a lot of the American Indians... In their case it was small pox.

But the guys that write the history like to make it more historic and noble with swords and winchesters! Flu, smallpox and VD just don't make it noble...

well, initially, alot were put to the sword and whip before disease took over

and as far as the american indians, more died of lead poisoning (ya, there were a few incidents of biological warefare )

I really see no reason for an "alien" to come here except for natural resources (including food). Humans are a paranoid, dirty, violent lot.

 

[tsaw]

I had more time to think about this subject. It hit me to look at it like this:
The existence of the dinosaur VS the planet visited by aliens.
OK - Now what is being theorized is that there is evidence via past
artifacts that we were visited.

Now think about this:
If the only evidence we had of the dinosaur was some large foot
prints found somewhere, one might think that is enough.

BUT: We have bones that when dated match the date of their existence. When re-constructed, make one big puppy. Pretty concrete tangible hard to deny evidence.

On the other hand, not once have there ever been found anything
on earth that could be held up to the light - and be said that it was not from earth.

With the above said... my beliefs are:
1) There is no god as taught in church.
2) I'm agnostic. I believe there HAS to be more than just man on
earth in this vast universe. This is just using pure logic and common sense.
3) Has earth been visited? Maybe. But I see nothing to convince me yet.

Thanks Lia for starting this thought provoking thread.
3)

 

[Cowboy]

I had more time to think about this subject. It hit me to look at it like this:
The existence of the dinosaur VS the planet visited by aliens.
OK - Now what is being theorized is that there is evidence via past
artifacts that we were visited.

Now think about this:
If the only evidence we had of the dinosaur was some large foot
prints found somewhere, one might think that is enough.

BUT: We have bones that when dated match the date of their existence. When re-constructed, make one big puppy. Pretty concrete tangible hard to deny evidence.

On the other hand, not once have there ever been found anything
on earth that could be held up to the light - and be said that it was not from earth.

With the above said... my beliefs are:
1) There is no god as taught in church.
2) I'm agnostic. I believe there HAS to be more than just man on
earth in this vast universe. This is just using pure logic and common sense.
3) Has earth been visited? Maybe. But I see nothing to convince me yet.

Thanks Lia for starting this thought provoking thread.
3)

All very good points Tom , but I really think from what you just wrote you trully would find the rest of the series very interesting . No one is trying to say its a fact the aliens had anything to do with anything BUT if you watch the series it does leave some doubt there is any other explanation and thats what I find interesting you just have to view and decide for yourself .

 

[waybomb]

If you watched AlGore's Inconvenient Truth, you could be made to believe that AGW was real.
Of course, that's been debunked, but some still actually believe, as a result of that movie.

 

[fogtender]

well, initially, alot were put to the sword and whip before disease took over

and as far as the american indians, more died of lead poisoning (ya, there were a few incidents of biological warefare )

I really see no reason for an "alien" to come here except for natural resources (including food). Humans are a paranoid, dirty, violent lot.

Well we aren't much different as far as resources go, but we also go to strange places to study animals as well!

Not having a direct line to Aliens, I have no idea what they would be doing here other than watching us... We think we are hot stuff because we can build a stealth fighter... I figure that if something that advanced can come accross the voids of space, they could stand next to you and not be seen.

I have no answers about aliens or a lot of stuff, but I'm sure when the Aztec's first saw the Spanish Ships, they were in Awe. I doubt we wouldn't be much different if an E.T. showed up here. Of course NORAD would try to blow them out of the sky!

If there is in fact a God (I know there is something after here) why would he only put man on one planet in the entire universe, that was the same mindset when the Church claimed the sun rotated around the Earth, which of course was flat!

 

[tsaw]

If there is in fact a God (I know there is something after here) why would he only put man on one planet in the entire universe, that was the same mindset when the Church claimed the sun rotated around the Earth, which of course was flat!

That is the same logical thinking i'm using to look at this.
A bigger question is: If there is something out there beyond us, why does it have to be so hidden? Why can't it be proven like sticking your hand in an open flame burns like HELL? Why all the mystery and hiding? IDK... just thinking.

 

[muleman]

I have a lot of fossils on my place which tells me that at one time it was part of a big sea. Where it all went is a mystery to me as well. I have dug up a lot of interesting stuff but no aliens yet!

 

[Cowboy]

That is the same logical thinking i'm using to look at this.
A bigger question is: If there is something out there beyond us, why does it have to be so hidden? Why can't it be proven like sticking your hand in an open flame burns like HELL? Why all the mystery and hiding? IDK... just thinking.

What you have to ask yourself Tom is WHO is hiding the fact they exsist ?

It is a fact that all governments have been keeping many secrets from people for many decades that night cause them to worry or panic . There have been thousands of accounts over several centurys of highly respected people that have claimed to have witnessed ufo's on numerous occasions, including military personell from all over the world including those that have been into space.

The information and reports are out there you just have to want to look for it. Most people just choose to ignore it, because maybe having something out there like alien beings from another universe that are far more inteligent then us, Scares the hell out of them.

Personally I want to know as much about the world we live in, for the short time that I am a part of it, to do that I have to look at the posibility anything is possible and keep an open mind. It also doesn't hurt to look up once in awhile instead of looking down.

 

[Lia]

That is the same logical thinking i'm using to look at this.
A bigger question is: If there is something out there beyond us, why does it have to be so hidden? Why can't it be proven like sticking your hand in an open flame burns like HELL? Why all the mystery and hiding? IDK... just thinking.

Tsaw, it isn’t really hidden. Millions of sightings go unreported on an annual basis. On a daily basis (I think I posted some statistics in another thread, and will try to find the link), the statistics are frighteningly telling.

As for your question: ‘why all the mystery?’ Well, one has to think clearly and logically about this. The mystery is not hard to fathom. There is no government, or defence department, nor military strategy or weaponry that can stop these visitations. They are, by all accounts, and from various professional and/or military opinions, far superior in technology to us.

What would you have the DOD, or NASA do? Admit that these Aliens are here, but they are powerless not only to stop them, but also powerless against their technology? How do you think that would go down globally, in terms of human emotional stability? And, what defence department would admit to their opposite counterparts their defensive inadequacies? Don’t you know that we have been trying to down these things since the world war two? There have been many reports of our military firing at them, but none, to my knowledge, of them firing at us.

It isn’t as if this has only been a problem since the beginning of the last century, as many people believe, and our governments would like everyone to believe. They want folk to associate these sightings with science fiction/fantasy and comic book heroes. It’s a propaganda war. There have been sightings for as far back as history records. Paintings from the ancient period, medieval times and even stone age carvings have been found, portraying these craft in all four corners of the globe. Alexander the Great became obsessed by them and spent the rest of his life researching them after he and his men, during a campaign, sighted several strange craft.

I’m gonna go out on a limb here: No-one has to believe this, there is no actual evidence to prove it either way. If you’re sceptical, that’s fine, but if anyone here is genuinely interested, below is an extract from a discussion between Houston Mission Control and Apollo 11 during their ‘moon excursion.’ Of course, this is a little off-track in relation to the actual thread topic, which is ancient civilizations and possible ancient alien visitations, but some people actually believe that we have never been alone. In fact there is a good preponderance of evidence to suggest that this is fact.

I’d be more than willing to debate these anomalies, and name names; military, political, etc. I don’t have all the answers, but I have a wealth of archival information from years of research.

Apollo 11, with Neil Armstrong, Michael Collins and Edwin Aldrin was the first Apollo flight to land on the Moon, on July 20, 1969. While Collins flew in orbit around the Moon in the command module, Armstrong and Aldrin descended in the lunar module, landing in the Sea of Tranquillity at 4:17 P.M.

According to hitherto un-confirmed reports, both Neil Armstrong and Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin saw UFOs shortly after that historic landing on the Moon in Apollo 11 on 21 July 1969. I remember hearing one of the astronauts refer to a "light" in or on a crater during the television transmission, followed by a request from mission control for further information. Nothing more was heard.

The following astonishing conversation was picked up by ham radio operators that had their own VHF receiving facilities that bypassed NASA's broadcasting outlets. At this time, the live television broadcast was interrupted for two minutes due to a supposed "overheated camera", but the transmission below was received loud and clear by hundreds of ham radio operators:

According to Otto Binder, who was a member of the NASA space team, when the two moon-walkers, Aldrin and Armstrong were making their rounds some distance from the LEM, Armstrong clutched Aldrin's arm excitedly and exclaimed:

Armstrong: What was it? What the hell was it? That's all I want to know!"

Mission Control: What's there?... malfunction (garble) ... Mission Control calling Apollo 11 ...

Apollo 11: These babies were huge, sir!... Enormous!... Oh, God! You wouldn't believe it! ... I'm telling you there are other space-craft out there ... lined up on the far side of the crater edge! ... They're on the Moon watching us!

Wilson writes (p. 48): "Binder ends his report with this observation: 'There has, understandably, been no confirmation of this incredible report by NASA or any authorities. WE cannot vouch for its authenticity, but if true, one can surmise that mission control went into a dither and then into a huddle, after which they sternly [ordered] the moonwalkers to 'forget' what they saw and carry on casually and calmly as if nothing had happened. After all, an estimated 600 million people around the world were hanging on every word spoken by the first two men to leave footprints on the Moon."

The book "Celestial Raise" by Richard Watson and ASSK [P.O. Box 35 Mt. Shasta CA. 96067 (916)-926-2316); 1987; page 147-148] records the following (continuation?) of the above remarkable dialogue of Apollo 11, which was picked up by hundreds of ham radio operators in the USA:

"During the transmission of the Moon landing of Armstrong and Aldrin, who journeyed to the Moon in an American spaceship, two minutes of silence occurred in which the image and sound were interrupted. NASA insisted that this problem was the result of one of the television cameras which had overheated, thus interfering with the reception.

This unexpected problem surprised even the most qualified of viewers who were unable to explain how in such a costly project, one of the most essential elements could break down... Some time after the historic Moon landing, Christopher Craft, director of the base in Houston, made some surprising comments when he left NASA.

The contents of these comments, which is included in the conversations [below], has been corroborated by hundreds of amateur radio operators who had connected their stations to the same frequency through which the astronauts transmitted. During the two minute interruption - which was not as it seemed, NASA, Armstrong and Aldrin with Cape Kennedy, censored both image and sound. 'I say that there were other spaceships.'

Here is reproduced completely the dialogue between the American astronauts and Control Center:

Armstrong & Aldrin: Those are giant things. No, no, no - this is not an optical illusion. No one is going to believe this!

Houston (Christopher Craft): What ... what ... what? What the hell is happening? What's wrong with you?

Armstrong & Aldrin: They're here under the surface.

Houston: What's there? (muffled noise) Emission interrupted; interference control calling 'Apollo 11'.

Armstrong & Aldrin: We saw some visitors. They were here for a while, observing the instruments.

Houston: Repeat your last information!

Armstrong & Aldrin: I say that there were other spaceships. They're lined up in the other side of the crater!

Houston: Repeat, repeat!

Armstrong & Aldrin: Let us sound this orbita ... in 625 to 5 ... Automatic relay connected ... My hands are shaking so badly I can't do anything. Film it? God, if these damned cameras have picked up anything - what then?

Houston: Have you picked up anything?

Armstrong & Aldrin: I didn't have any film at hand. Three shots of the saucers or whatever they were that were ruining the film

Houston: Control, control here. Are you on your way? What is the uproar with the UFOs over?

Armstrong & Aldrin: They've landed here. There they are and they're watching us.

Houston: The mirrors, the mirrors - have you set them up?

Armstrong & Aldrin: Yes, they're in the right place. But whoever made those spaceships surely can come tomorrow and remove them. Over and out.


A certain professor, who wished to remain anonymous, was engaged in a discussion with Neil Armstrong during a NASA symposium.


Professor: What REALLY happened out there with Apollo 11?

Armstrong: It was incredible, of course we had always known there was a possibility - the fact is, we were warned off! There was never any question then of a space station or a moon city.

Professor: How do you mean "warned off"?

Armstrong: I can't go into details, except to say that their ships were far superior to ours both in size and technology - Boy, were they big!...and menacing! No, there is no question of a space station.

Professor: But NASA had other missions after Apollo 11?

Armstrong: Naturally - NASA was committed at that time, and couldn't risk panic on Earth. But it really was a quick scoop and back again.

According to a Dr. Vladimir Azhazha:
"Neil Armstrong relayed the message to Mission Control that two large, mysterious objects were watching them after having landed near the Moon module (LEM). But this message was never heard by the public - because NASA censored it."

According to a Dr. Aleksandr Kasantsev, Buzz Aldrin took color movie film of the UFOs from inside the module, and continued filming them after he and Armstrong went outside.

Armstrong confirmed that the story was true but refused to go into further detail, beyond admitting that the CIA was behind the cover-up."

http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicphotos.html

 

[SShepherd]

so, if there's no hard evidence/proof.............are you saying you're going on faith to believe ?

 

[fogtender]

so, if there's no hard evidence/proof.............are you saying you're going on faith to believe ?

Aliens or God?

 

[Lia]

so, if there's no hard evidence/proof.............are you saying you're going on faith to believe ?

Oh what a delicious question to ask. A good question. I'll try to be brief but succinct.

I've said this before, and perhaps some won't understand where I am coming from, but one doesn't have to be religious, or believe in a deity to be spiritual emotionally, mentally, or physically. I do go upon faith, just as every other soul in the world does, at various times. However, my belief in these things that I speak of in this thread are just a part of me, and of personal experiences that I have had throughout my life.

Much of it is personal, altho a very few here know of some of it. But, to get to the point, I have been seeing these craft for most of my life. I have never encountered one that has landed, but have been as close as around 12 feet away from one in flight. I've never seen an 'Alien,' but I know that the various craft that I have seen over the years were piloted by some form of intelligence. I'm pretty pragmatic as an individual, but have always been what one or two in my family have called 'Fey.'

I have a blog, somewhat; a private blog, of some personal but consistent and 'paranormal' experiences that have occurred throughout my life, which I have been considering posting here, at ff, for some time now. I guess that this sort of thread is partly a sort of 'testing the waters' excercise. Altho I am very serious about all that I have posted here, I hasten to add.

Without trying to be disrespectful, I would like to say that one doesn't necessarily need to be told by some deity, not to kill, steal, covet, envy, be greedy, nasty, disruptive, inconsiderate, etc, etc... I don't know anyone in my social circle who would turn away from someone who was desperate for help, in need, or in pain; and neither do I know anyone who would deliberately set out to inflict harm on anyone, mentally or physically. I'm an Atheist, but I have spiritual experiences, and consider myself to be a good person, relatively.

My morals and principles are on a par with anyone who adheres to a religious faith.

 

[pirate_girl]

Without trying to be disrespectful, I would like to say that one doesn't necessarily need to be told by some deity, not to kill, steal, covet, envy, be greedy, nasty, disruptive, inconsiderate, etc, etc... I don't know anyone in my social circle who would turn away from someone who was desperate for help, in need, or in pain; and neither do I know anyone who would deliberately set out to inflict harm on anyone, mentally or physically. I'm an Atheist, but I have spiritual experiences, and consider myself to be a good person, relatively.

My morals and principles are on a par with anyone who adheres to a religious faith.

Well said my dear!

 

[Cowboy]

That is the same logical thinking i'm using to look at this.
A bigger question is: If there is something out there beyond us, why does it have to be so hidden? Why can't it be proven like sticking your hand in an open flame burns like HELL? Why all the mystery and hiding? IDK... just thinking.

As I have said before Tom there is proof out there you just have to look for it . We just got done watching season 1 episode 6 and they covered the Bermuda trianle as well as the Roswell incident and what has been called the battle of Las Angeles which some may not even be aware that it even took place because it happened shortly after the attack of Pearl Harbor . But here is a little info about it if anyone is interested as well as a live radio report from the same incident. As Riply said "beleive it or not" .

Edit! It was actually the first video of season 2 that I linked to in an earlier post that has the index that covered these incidents . Which can be found here if any one is interested. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zN3vLtHBV0&feature=relmfu"]Ancient Aliens Season 2 Episode 1(FULL) - YouTube[/ame]


Radio broadcast here.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFPcvnxuLJI"]1942 BATTLE OF LOS ANGELES. - YouTube[/ame]




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Los_Angeles


Los Angeles Times, February 26, 1942. The photo in the top left, the only one taken of the "battle," has been used by conspiracy theorists as proof of the existence of UFOs. However, the photo was heavily modified prior to publication.[1]

The Battle of Los Angeles, also known as The Great Los Angeles Air Raid, is the name given by contemporary sources to the rumored enemy attack and subsequent anti-aircraft artillery barrage which took place from late February 24 to early February 25, 1942 over Los Angeles, California.[2][3] The incident occurred less than three months after the United States entered World War II as a result of the Japanese Imperial Navy's attack on Pearl Harbor, and one day after the Bombardment of Ellwood on February 23.
Initially, the target of the aerial barrage was thought to be an attacking force from Japan, but speaking at a press conference shortly afterward, Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox called the incident a "false alarm." Newspapers of the time published a number of sensational reports and speculations of a cover-up. Some modern-day UFOlogists have suggested the targets were extraterrestrial spacecraft.[4] When documenting the incident in 1983, the U.S. Office of Air Force History attributed the event to a case of "war nerves" likely triggered by a lost weather balloon and exacerbated by stray flares and shell bursts from adjoining batteries.
Contents



[hide]

• 1 Alarms raised
• 2 Press response
• 3 Attribution
• 4 Commemoration
• 5 See also
• 6 References

 

[SShepherd]

Oh what a delicious question to ask. A good question. I'll try to be brief but succinct.

I've said this before, and perhaps some won't understand where I am coming from, but one doesn't have to be religious, or believe in a deity to be spiritual emotionally, mentally, or physically. I do go upon faith, just as every other soul in the world does, at various times. However, my belief in these things that I speak of in this thread are just a part of me, and of personal experiences that I have had throughout my life.

Much of it is personal, altho a very few here know of some of it. But, to get to the point, I have been seeing these craft for most of my life. I have never encountered one that has landed, but have been as close as around 12 feet away from one in flight. I've never seen an 'Alien,' but I know that the various craft that I have seen over the years were piloted by some form of intelligence. I'm pretty pragmatic as an individual, but have always been what one or two in my family have called 'Fey.'

I have a blog, somewhat; a private blog, of some personal but consistent and 'paranormal' experiences that have occurred throughout my life, which I have been considering posting here, at ff, for some time now. I guess that this sort of thread is partly a sort of 'testing the waters' excercise. Altho I am very serious about all that I have posted here, I hasten to add.

Without trying to be disrespectful, I would like to say that one doesn't necessarily need to be told by some deity, not to kill, steal, covet, envy, be greedy, nasty, disruptive, inconsiderate, etc, etc... I don't know anyone in my social circle who would turn away from someone who was desperate for help, in need, or in pain; and neither do I know anyone who would deliberately set out to inflict harm on anyone, mentally or physically. I'm an Atheist, but I have spiritual experiences, and consider myself to be a good person, relatively.

My morals and principles are on a par with anyone who adheres to a religious faith.

i'm glad you understood my reason for the question

Alot of people "believe" in Aliens, etc without having any proof or 1st hand knowledge- yet they mock christians for worshiping a God they've never seen. I find that a bit hypocritical. (I'm not saying you're in that crowd)
They try to pull the intellectuall superority card, but in the end it comes down to faith.

 

[Lia]

i'm glad you understood my reason for the question

Alot of people "believe" in Aliens, etc without having any proof or 1st hand knowledge- yet they mock christians for worshiping a God they've never seen. I find that a bit hypocritical. (I'm not saying you're in that crowd)
They try to pull the intellectuall superority card, but in the end it comes down to faith.

Well, I understand where you're coming from Shep, altho I've always found it to be far more prominent the other way around. However, as Cowboy said in his post above, there is an enormous preponderance of evidence to show that the Alien Visitation, and Alien Ancient Civilization issue is, and always has been an ongoing situation.

A wealth of evidence from prominent people from all walks of life, and an enormous pool of video and media evidence (I admit that there are a good number of hoaxes and hoaxers out there trying to muddy the waters), has been presented. On another site I have made it my business to expose some hoaxes, not necessarily all of it of UFO's, but I/we, for the most part, don't believe everything we read or hear, on the subject of UFO's and Aliens.

I've posted, a while ago, a link to the news video from, I believe, world war two, where the US army gave everything they had at a single UFO, which they had well within their sights, and still failed to 'down it.' Cowboy I believe, has just posted it again, with other links, above. If one doesn't look, one will never see. Its all very well to say that there is no evidence, but it simply isn't true. There is far more evidence for extraterrestrial life out there, than there is for the deities of any religion, especially since these things are still around today, whereas the deities have, if they ever existed, been long gone.

A very small, yet significant amount of this evidence, albeit circumstantial, has been posted in this thread, and others here at ff. I don't want to make this a 'religious thread' because I intended it to be a kind of academic sharing of knowledge of ancient history and alien visitations; but I will say this. I have no problem with people having a faith, or believing in a deity. Some, many Christians, and other believers, are awesome folk, who are a credit to their chosen faith; there's a heck of a lot of those kind here at ff.

What I have a problem with is those who say that their god demands certain things of humankind, when it must be as clear as crystal that he never practiced what he preached, nor showed the benevolence and/or compassion that he is credited with.

I have a problem with people, theists, who condemn me because I do not believe in their god; yet who don't even know me, or know what my morals and principles are. You know Shep, with all due respect, there are no 'Saints' in Heaven. Saints are man made. Some of them had some shocking habits and traits. Think about it hon.

Peace.

 

[Lia]

Jut as a point of interest, I was just sent this video by a very good friend, who thought it might be relevant, especially to those of the Catholic faith. I'm not sure what to make of it, and its early days to speculate in its significance, but in any event, here's the video:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ydurUDXea8&feature=player_embedded"]Vatican to announce ALIENS! Father Jonathan Morris interview - YouTube[/ame]

Of course, its not the first time that something of this nature has come out of the vatican. They made an announcement in 2008 on UFO's and Alien life-forms, and speculated then on the issue.

Its possible that 'disclosure' may be more imminent than those who have anticipated it, realize. But, the time is right, imho, and I believe that world governments now know that it is inevitable. Interesting video...

 

[SShepherd]

Well, I understand where you're coming from Shep, altho I've always found it to be far more prominent the other way around. However, as Cowboy said in his post above, there is an enormous preponderance of evidence to show that the Alien Visitation, and Alien Ancient Civilization issue is, and always has been an ongoing situation.

A wealth of evidence from prominent people from all walks of life, and an enormous pool of video and media evidence (I admit that there are a good number of hoaxes and hoaxers out there trying to muddy the waters), has been presented. On another site I have made it my business to expose some hoaxes, not necessarily all of it of UFO's, but I/we, for the most part, don't believe everything we read or hear, on the subject of UFO's and Aliens.

I've posted, a while ago, a link to the news video from, I believe, world war two, where the US army gave everything they had at a single UFO, which they had well within their sights, and still failed to 'down it.' Cowboy I believe, has just posted it again, with other links, above. If one doesn't look, one will never see. Its all very well to say that there is no evidence, but it simply isn't true. There is far more evidence for extraterrestrial life out there, than there is for the deities of any religion, especially since these things are still around today, whereas the deities have, if they ever existed, been long gone.

A very small, yet significant amount of this evidence, albeit circumstantial, has been posted in this thread, and others here at ff. I don't want to make this a 'religious thread' because I intended it to be a kind of academic sharing of knowledge of ancient history and alien visitations; but I will say this. I have no problem with people having a faith, or believing in a deity. Some, many Christians, and other believers, are awesome folk, who are a credit to their chosen faith; there's a heck of a lot of those kind here at ff.

What I have a problem with is those who say that their god demands certain things of humankind, when it must be as clear as crystal that he never practiced what he preached, nor showed the benevolence and/or compassion that he is credited with.

I have a problem with people, theists, who condemn me because I do not believe in their god; yet who don't even know me, or know what my morals and principles are. You know Shep, with all due respect, there are no 'Saints' in Heaven. Saints are man made. Some of them had some shocking habits and traits. Think about it hon.

Peace.

Why the poke in the eye?
This is your opinion. Just as you say there's evidence from people about extra terrestrials, believers in Christ can say the same, through the Bible and through personal expieriences.
Here is what the Bible says about saints;
http://www.gotquestions.org/saints-Christian.html
Therefore, scripturally speaking, the “saints” are the body of Christ, Christians, the church. All Christians are considered saints. All Christian are saints—and at the same time are called to be saints. First Corinthians 1:2 states it clearly: “To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy…” from the same Greek root as the word that is commonly translated “saints.” Christians are saints by virtue of their connection with Jesus The words “sanctified” and “holy” come Christ. Christians are called to be saints, to increasingly allow their daily life to more closely match their position in Christ. This is the biblical description and calling of the saints

 

[Lia]

Why the poke in the eye?

Okay, this is turning into something that I diodn't want, and is off topic also, which I did mention before. I certainly didn't intend to 'poke you in the eye' as you term it Shep, and if you feel that I did, it was absolutely unintentional, and I unreservedly apologize for any offence caused.

This is your opinion.

Well, actually, no, it isn't. But, I would be happy to debate the issue with you, tho I would prefer it if you would take it to another thread.

Just as you say there's evidence from people about extra terrestrials, believers in Christ can say the same, through the Bible and through personal expieriences.

No, as I said, there is evidence of alien visitation, and one can see it clearly, if one opens their eye's. The bible however, was written by men, several men, many many years, decades even, after the alleged events. Its a book full of contradictions and has been subjected to enormous literary manipulation, by various interpreters, and factions. It has been added too, and subtracted from, and even mistranslated. But, at the end of the day, it is merely a literary work via many authors, over many years, and based on anecdotal writings and stories.

Here is what the Bible says about saints;
http://www.gotquestions.org/saints-Christian.html
Therefore, scripturally speaking, the “saints” are the body of Christ, Christians, the church. All Christians are considered saints. All Christian are saints—and at the same time are called to be saints. First Corinthians 1:2 states it clearly: “To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy…” from the same Greek root as the word that is commonly translated “saints.” Christians are saints by virtue of their connection with Jesus The words “sanctified” and “holy” come Christ. Christians are called to be saints, to increasingly allow their daily life to more closely match their position in Christ. This is the biblical description and calling of the saints

Quite right! I never disputed that Saints aren't the product of men. I said so in my previous post. What I do claim tho, is that these elected 'saints' are merely saints of this world; elected by religious factions and institutes. No-one can make someone something special, of or in a dimension that cannot even be proved exists; nor can they have liased with anyone in this 'heaven'to arrange such a status. either there or in any other such dimension. The same as our president can't make an order to say that a certain person here, or of another realm/country should be exalted there. He would have no such jurisdiction.

As I said, I'm more than happy to debate the religious issue in another thread, but this is a thread about ancient civilizations and the possibilities of ancient aliens.

 

[SShepherd]

Okay, this is turning into something that I diodn't want, and is off topic also, which I did mention before. I certainly didn't intend to 'poke you in the eye' as you term it Shep, and if you feel that I did, it was absolutely unintentional, and I unreservedly apologize for any offence caused.



Well, actually, no, it isn't. But, I would be happy to debate the issue with you, tho I would prefer it if you would take it to another thread.



No, as I said, there is evidence of alien visitation, and one can see it clearly, if one opens their eye's. The bible however, was written by men, several men, many many years, decades even, after the alleged events. Its a book full of contradictions and has been subjected to enormous literary manipulation, by various interpreters, and factions. It has been added too, and subtracted from, and even mistranslated. But, at the end of the day, it is merely a literary work via many authors, over many years, and based on anecdotal writings and stories.



Quite right! I never disputed that Saints aren't the product of men. I said so in my previous post. What I do claim tho, is that these elected 'saints' are merely saints of this world; elected by religious factions and institutes. No-one can make someone something special, of or in a dimension that cannot even be proved exists; nor can they have liased with anyone in this 'heaven'to arrange such a status. either there or in any other such dimension. The same as our president can't make an order to say that a certain person here, or of another realm/country should be exalted there. He would have no such jurisdiction.

As I said, I'm more than happy to debate the religious issue in another thread, but this is a thread about ancient civilizations and the possibilities of ancient aliens.

my point is simply that I've made no judgement call, either for or against to discredit your beliefs. Your beliefs are your choice.
Please don't disrespect mine.
For some reason all the UFO talk seems to turn anti-God.

 

[Lia]

my point is simply that I've made no judgement call, either for or against to discredit your beliefs. Your beliefs are your choice.
Please don't disrespect mine.
For some reason all the UFO talk seems to turn anti-God.

I am not disrespecting your beliefs; the whole thread is about ancient aliens civilizations that many people believe were misinterpreted as gods. You're the one that is trying to turn it into something personal. Its an academic concept! I refuse to apologise for a concept!

 

[fogtender]

my point is simply that I've made no judgement call, either for or against to discredit your beliefs. Your beliefs are your choice.
Please don't disrespect mine.
For some reason all the UFO talk seems to turn anti-God.

Lia has a very valid point in this is for UFO/Alien side of man's history and we should keep it on thread. I find this fascinating myself, and don't mind debating religion either, but we should respect her thread and take our other debates to those threads out of respect.

Then we can debate religion there.

Having said that, I truely believe some cultures did have contacts with ET's and view them as Gods in their legacy! But that is different than quoting scriptures here unless it is related to the subject at hand.

I'm also fully aware, as are most of us, religion and some views clash, that isn't what Lia is trying to prove or disprove.

Anyway, that is my Penny's worth in the pot.

 

[SShepherd]

I'm not trying to make it personal, although beliefs are a very personal thing. I say it takes faith to believe in little green men, that's all.