1boringguy
Well-known member
That was a somewhat serious question, I wonder how much adaptation that takes ?
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1989 Tucker 1644c
- Thread starter 1boringguy
- Start date
1BG,
My understanding is the steel track Tuckers used different axle assemblies than the Dana 60 and 70 series axles on our machines. (One of the steel track Tucker experts would need to confirm that.) That would mean you would have to design and fabricate systems to secure the pontoons to the axles, as well as the means to drive the grousers, or you'd have to remove the Dana axles and find a set of steel track Tucker axles.
I'm also quite sure the 500 series Tuckers weighed substantially less than our 1600 series machines. That suggests that 700 series pontoons might be the way to go, as they are quite a bit longer, with a much bigger footprint. My impression is the cost to convert a rubber belted Tucker to a 700 series steel track machine is in the cost-prohibitive category, unless you came upon a trashed 700 series machine with great grousers, pontoons and flanged bearings...and all that at a decent price. PP or Sno-Drifter would likely know, but I think during the steel track era 400 series machines (narrow tracks) vastly outnumbered 500 series machines (wide tracks) and 700 series machines were rarer still.
Locker-wise, I remember a few years ago seeing a photo of a big Tucker groomer stuck just off a snowmobile trail on flat ground, (I believe in Wyoming). The story was the operator was peacefully doing his job grooming the trail when some snowmobilers, taking up the whole trail and traveling at a high rate of speed came face-to-face with the groomer - and the groomer operator drove off the trail to avoid an accident. Anyway, without lockers he had one front track spinning, and one rear track spinning. He couldn't go forward, and with the drag he was pulling, he couldn't back up.
My personal opinion is they are expensive, and you don't really need them...until you do.
300 series tucker used dodge 1/2 pickup axles, weighs approx 3800 lb
400 series tucker used dodge 1/2 pickup axles, weighs approx 4500 lb
500 series tucker used International 3/4 ton axles, weighs approx 5500lb
700 series tucker used dodge 1 & 1/2 ton truck axles, weighs approx 8000lb
the best overall pontoon machine was the 500 series machine, with the expception of the 420, Torpedo, because of superiority of the pontoon machine in the snow, they did not need such aids like lockers and or much heavier/bigger axles, let alone engine swaps of 400 plus hp engines
during the mid seventies when you could buy either a pontoon or rubber track machines, these machines could be bought with either set up, using the same axle, pretty much applied to the 500 series machines. tucker was moving away from pontoon machines quickly, as they were cheaper to build,
to this day, a pontoon machine is still king of the mountain...
still hard to beat any of zilla builds, high quality and vast improvement in quality of construction, super cool zilla tucker's
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1boringguy
Well-known member
Yea but how much fun would it be to have wide pontoons, 400hp, and lockers? It might even give a 420 torpedo a challenge?
no
not to pop your pontoon dreams
lockers in a pontoon machine totally defeats everything that makes a pontoon machine successful and with 400 hp, would be simply be a waste of hp, besides, you need all that hp to turn over those rubber tracks.
as I have stated many times, how much hp do you need to go 5 mph, see, every snow cat in the world is faster that a pontoon machine, period no further need to even try, they are slow and in the world of over snow travel, a pontoon machine is barley one step above snow shoes,
such is the life of a lowest of the slow, very slow, pontoon machine...
not to pop your pontoon dreams
lockers in a pontoon machine totally defeats everything that makes a pontoon machine successful and with 400 hp, would be simply be a waste of hp, besides, you need all that hp to turn over those rubber tracks.
as I have stated many times, how much hp do you need to go 5 mph, see, every snow cat in the world is faster that a pontoon machine, period no further need to even try, they are slow and in the world of over snow travel, a pontoon machine is barley one step above snow shoes,
such is the life of a lowest of the slow, very slow, pontoon machine...
Maybe one day if I ever approach PP or TLBFT status my second cat can be a pontoon machine!! 
In my opinion one of the most respected members of these snowcat forums is Weatherby. It's our loss that he only very rarely posts these days, but his restoration thread of a Thiokol 601 is for me the Gold Standard of restoration excellence. After that machine was complete, he was looking for a new project and he had his sights on a Tucker. We exchanged some PMs and a pretty nice looking mid-fifties Tucker 543 in Pinedale, WY showed up on ksl.com. I told Weatherby about it in hopes he would buy it. I also considered buying it... for no good reason other than I thought it was cool. But I didn't want to buy it out from under him so I did...nothing. In retrospect, perhaps I should have bought it, and if he decided he wanted it - sold it to him at my cost, but I (stupidly?) didn't do that.
Remember Paul Harvey the radio personality and his "The Rest of the Story" series?
Well guess who ended up with that 543?
Hint: it's not a hard question. Don't overthink it. Go with your first instinct, and don't change your answer.
Remember Paul Harvey the radio personality and his "The Rest of the Story" series?
Well guess who ended up with that 543?
Hint: it's not a hard question. Don't overthink it. Go with your first instinct, and don't change your answer.
SHE gets them all doesn't she???
please let me set the record straight and not let a rumor like this, to continue and go unanswered
I do not get them all and have left many many many in the wild for others to find and enjoy, left far far far more than I have gotten
I play nice in the snow box and share
I do not get them all and have left many many many in the wild for others to find and enjoy, left far far far more than I have gotten
I play nice in the snow box and share
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Weatherby is a great guy, with fabulous skills, and yes it is sad he rarely posts any longer, when he was active, he was a wealth of info and always wiling to share his knowledge, good person, it well worth the time going back through his posts
fyi, after the thiokol restoration, he did get a tucker, a 1949 tucker torpedo, model 420, high pond mountain ski area...serial number 149093
sir squirrel of red knows him fairly well.
(Said in my very best Yoda voice) Very perceptive you are young Jedi...
HillBilt
Active member
Great info being shared, I love it 
Didn't realize the Pontoons were so much better. I wanted to get into a Tucker and still will in time. Just hard to come by in my neck of the woods, and when you do they are Thundered. Just gonna lurk these great Tucker Build threads and soak up as much as I can. Great stuff guys. 
Didn't realize the Pontoons were so much better. I wanted to get into a Tucker and still will in time. Just hard to come by in my neck of the woods, and when you do they are Thundered. Just gonna lurk these great Tucker Build threads and soak up as much as I can. Great stuff guys. Puh Leez....
This sounds like "revisionist history". Do you really expect (any of) us to believe you went to the time and trouble to check out for example a prime specimen 543 at a great price, and altruistically walked away so someone else could have the enjoyment of finding and buying it?
I just can't picture that...
I suspect the "many, many, many" machines you left were either in very rough shape, or over priced, or both.
To be fair though, I recall on the forum several folks posting links to steel track Tuckers for sale and you responding with your thoughts on the condition, price and sometimes comments on the seller, after having already seen the machine in person and spoken with the seller. That's really great information for someone without steel track Tucker experience and I would certainly agree it is "playing nice"...
1boringguy
Well-known member
1boringguy
Well-known member
Also recall the same several times, PP giving her assessment of good or bad. The Ripple Creek cat comes to mind on the good, I thought hard about that one, and several other old cats that have resurfaced over the years that were not.
I'm sure I'm not alone in appreciating you both sharing your expertise with us here.
1boringguy
Well-known member
Not to worry, I don't discourage to easily. I'll just be waiting for someone to unlock those Antarctica freighters in storage, I'm sure i saw some spare pontoons there.
Help me out here in pontoon 101 if you will. Do you suppose the move away from pontoons was driven by the need for speed, matianence, costs, all the above? Are pontoons successful because of the flotation provided by the pontoon design, because of the packing of the snow under the pontoon that the grousers drive against, ease of rotation, lighter weight, other factors?
Track Addict
Bronze Member
Here in the east rubber tracks are a blessing.
Now that being said owning both, the rubber is 1 and pontoon 10++ in fresh snow.
Rubber tends to dig/bounce when steep and deep.
Pontoon floats but can dig when pushed. The ladder track pontoon design is brillant. Traverse and roll vs claw.
The steel track is steel to steel transmitting even consistent power around the pontoon with little variance.
The rubber track same idea but the grousers are connected by rubber belting absorbing and concentrating forces much differently and the carrier is much narrower.
groomed packed rubber.
pow equals powtoon.
Less power and effort needed for the pontoon also. Try rolling a parked pontoon and a parked rubber.
Now that being said owning both, the rubber is 1 and pontoon 10++ in fresh snow.
Rubber tends to dig/bounce when steep and deep.
Pontoon floats but can dig when pushed. The ladder track pontoon design is brillant. Traverse and roll vs claw.
The steel track is steel to steel transmitting even consistent power around the pontoon with little variance.
The rubber track same idea but the grousers are connected by rubber belting absorbing and concentrating forces much differently and the carrier is much narrower.
groomed packed rubber.
pow equals powtoon.
Less power and effort needed for the pontoon also. Try rolling a parked pontoon and a parked rubber.
the move to rubber tracks was driven by the competition, and unintentionally they were cheaper to produce and cheaper to maintain, the real looser was everyone not having a superior back country machine any longer to buy, yes yes yes it is all about floatation
actually the maintenance of a roller machine is a good way to check everything and not all the bad, good for the soul
fyi, there are no extra pontoons with the Belgium tuckers, and rumor has it, they are headed back to the states next year
you know what is really fun?
watching a rubber track tucker with lockers start to spin and then dig itself in deep right before your eyes, only to have a steel track machine come and rescue it before a thiokol shows up and starts laughing its track off
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1boringguy
Well-known member
Thanks for the schooling TA and PP, less embarrassing here than high centered in the snow on a hillside right ? As with most things successful, surely a combination of factors.
Ok PP, you're making this hard on me, no pontoons from the Belgium Tuckers then. So hear me out, if a P-38 can be recovered from the Greenland Ice Field after 50 years, maybe a Freighter can be recovered from a crevasse in Antarctica for some pontoons. I mean that would probably be easier than finding a good 543 cheap, right ?
Ok PP, you're making this hard on me, no pontoons from the Belgium Tuckers then. So hear me out, if a P-38 can be recovered from the Greenland Ice Field after 50 years, maybe a Freighter can be recovered from a crevasse in Antarctica for some pontoons. I mean that would probably be easier than finding a good 543 cheap, right ?
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Which freighter are you referring to?
1boringguy
Well-known member
I got to thinking about that last night. I thought I recalled reading an article where a freighter was lost in some of the Antarctica work after the CTAE, but Im thinking later that it wasn't a freighter. CRS, was there ever a freighter lost in Antarctica?
yes, the window one from TAE after the crossing, years later, New Zealand had bought it, and Lt Cousins was driving it when it fell into a crevasse and die, his passenger did get out,
1boringguy
Well-known member
Thanks PP,
No disrespect intended of course by my attempted humor.
1boringguy
Well-known member
Back to bussiness. Had the steering cylinder rebuilt since the rod had a large pit in it and seals seeped slightly. The rod was 7/8" but my hydraulic shop said 7/8" isn't all that common and they would have to order everything for that size. So we decided to go out to 1" rod size, for ease now and in the future. According to my calculations it's amounts to only about 3% difference in force when cylinder is being drawn/pushed inward. Doubt if that will be to noticeable when steering. As evidenced by the bare parts of the cylinder, as much as I would like to have everything possible powdercoated, some things just don't lend themselves to that because of heat intolerance or not ending up with areas coated that shouldn't be. Some spots will just have to be painted to match.
Attachments
love your humor and questions always welcome at the grand palace of all things pontoon
great job on sorting out and rebuilding your tucker, sadly a rubber track machine, snow cat
thank you for your interest, yes the Torpedo is the best cat on snow
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1boringguy
Well-known member
Thanks PP,
Always appreciate the source of info.
And not everyone appreciates my humor, and sometimes I just put both feet in my mouth, but in the end always hoping for something like this;
"There is nothing like a gleam of humor to reassure you that a fellow human being is ticking inside a strange face." –Eva Hoffman
Always appreciate the source of info.
And not everyone appreciates my humor, and sometimes I just put both feet in my mouth, but in the end always hoping for something like this;
"There is nothing like a gleam of humor to reassure you that a fellow human being is ticking inside a strange face." –Eva Hoffman
Track Addict
Bronze Member
The shop said my piston had odd sizing on it also which I inquired about replacement. Luckily good shape for hone polish and repack.
Key is figuring out the throw and centering the pivot. Build sheet had the specs that match my measuring.
Key is figuring out the throw and centering the pivot. Build sheet had the specs that match my measuring.
1boringguy
Well-known member
Yes I'm sure when I get to the assembly stage I'll have some questions about getting everything aligned properly. I think I recall seeing around here somewhere, where sno-drifter had posted some Tucker manufacturer info about alignment. Got a bit to do before I get there, but I'm gaining.
1BG,
Tucker, Inc puts out monthly newsletters, and while much of the info is applicable to the new, fancy, high-dollar machines, sometimes there are some great maintenance tips that apply to our "vintage" machines.
Here's a link to one such gem that explains in detail how to properly do an alignment:
I'll mention we are in the process of installing new tie rod ends on Snowzilla. It has been one of those less-than-fun jobs. On each tie rod there is one tie rod end with a right hand thread, and one with a left hand thread.
On the front tie rod we used a lot of heat, a three foot pipe wrench, and a long cheater bar (also referred to as a "Scott bar") and it was still a struggle to remove the tie rod end with the left hand thread. Neither Scott nor I had a 1"-14 left hand tap to clean up the threads in the tie rod before installing the new one. So I ordered a tap and it will arrive in a few days. Our plan is to temporarily install the tie rods, correct any alignment issues, and then remove the tie rods and repair the pipe wrench induced scars on the tie rod prior to priming and painting.
If you want to borrow that tap when we're done, shoot me a PM...
1boringguy
Well-known member
Thanks BFT, thats precisely the info I'll need as I get to the alignment procedure. And thanks for the offer using the tap.
When I got this cat I noticed that on the front 5th wheel, the thread fit between the tie rod end and the tie rod was lose due to wear. I split the tie rod the length of the threads and put a clamp on it. I recall sno-drifter recommending the end be left unclamped so as to be free to rotate if encountering a bind and not break the tie rod end. I went ahead with the clamp and a new tie rod end anyway, which did a good job of tightening up the fit, for a couple reasons. My thought was that Tucker made this end upclamped (one of many changes Tucker made by the 1989 1644c model that deals with issues you guys have found of earlier years) but I wondered if that wasn't done as the 'standard', parts were already designed, made, ordered that way. And the 'standard ' being the front 5th wheel was the one that could turn and also rotate, but with a blade the front was made the non-rotating 5th wheel, which of course makes sense. On mine the rear tie rod is split and has clamps, as if it was meant to be the non-rotating end. Looks to me as if the 5th wheel that does rotate is the one that can create a bind on the tie rod end and break it, the fixed to the frame end, not so much. Anyway I greased up the threads on the rear tie rod and left the clamps semi-tight, and carry a spare tie rod end in the tool box on the cat, just in case. If I decide I need to have the front free of the clamp, the tie rod ends and tie rod (for a truck which would have to be cut/welded to proper length) seem to be available from Peterbilt or the local truck wrecking yard. Or borrow a tap and cut the treads in some heavy wall pipe ?