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WHAT IF 20 MILLION ILLEGAL ALIENS VACATED AMERICA?

You are wrong again, I am not a native american, but if I was I would say. if anyone on this forum has the F_ _ _k _ _n _ _tttttttttttt S to meet me for breakfast, I will prove to that the illegals have rights, case law.. are there any other lawyers on this site who care to jump in this bucket of yak manure conversation....... Mr dddrane, the day you believe in the bill of rights, is the day you will believe that PEOPLE have rights, ALL, not just you and I as "White" caucasion Americans.....MY grudge is against the F------G coyotes......... by the way, My last name is Webster, NOT running blue feather...... when was the last time you met a indian with a name like that......

I believe you've had a taker on your breakfast offer.
 
You are wrong again, I am not a native american, but if I was I would say. if anyone on this forum has the F_ _ _k _ _n _ _tttttttttttt S to meet me for breakfast, I will prove to that the illegals have rights, case law.. are there any other lawyers on this site who care to jump in this bucket of yak manure conversation....... Mr dddrane, the day you believe in the bill of rights, is the day you will believe that PEOPLE have rights, ALL, not just you and I as "White" caucasion Americans.....MY grudge is against the F------G coyotes......... by the way, My last name is Webster, NOT running blue feather...... when was the last time you met a indian with a name like that.........

Not to try to stir the pot here, but are we not being just a little bit prejudicial in our statements here, not all Native Americans have a last name that would indicate just by the name that they are Native American.

The fact is that some Native American tribes have become so integrated with the round eyes that in some tribes there are a lot of blond people who are at least one half Native American.
 
You are wrong again, I am not a native american, but if I was I would say. if anyone on this forum has the F_ _ _k _ _n _ _tttttttttttt S to meet me for breakfast, I will prove to that the illegals have rights, case law.. are there any other lawyers on this site who care to jump in this bucket of yak manure conversation....... Mr dddrane, the day you believe in the bill of rights, is the day you will believe that PEOPLE have rights, ALL, not just you and I as "White" caucasion Americans.....MY grudge is against the F------G coyotes......... by the way, My last name is Webster, NOT running blue feather...... when was the last time you met a indian with a name like that.........





Sorry guys I'm jumping in here late.

Paul. I will be back in Colorado today. Not sure if your invite is still good for men with "F_ _ _k _ _n _ _tttttttttttt S". But I would gladly have a discussion with you on the Illegal infestation of our country!
 
I think Mr Webster will disappear soon if not already. Dont you guys think he was some sort of troll or somthing to get the fourm busier. Kinda fun.:thumb:
 
I think Mr Webster will disappear soon if not already. Dont you guys think he was some sort of troll or somthing to get the fourm busier. Kinda fun.:thumb:

He sounds like a defense lawyer, spelling, capitalization and pointing out my double negative and after reading it again, I still could not see it.:pat:

Very liberal bias just like a defense lawyer, my personal preference would be the Dirty Harry approach, but what the heck.:idea:
 
He sounds like a defense lawyer, spelling, capitalization and pointing out my double negative and after reading it again, I still could not see it.:pat:

Very liberal bias just like a defense lawyer, my personal preference would be the Dirty Harry approach, but what the heck.:idea:

:2gunsfiri
 
I think Mr Webster will disappear soon if not already. Dont you guys think he was some sort of troll or somthing to get the fourm busier. Kinda fun.:thumb:

Paul is real. I had several telephone conversations with him about snow cats prior to this thread in late December. He does live in Colorado and I do believe he was a lawyer at one time and is now retired. His opinion is his and we all need to remain civil even when we disagree with him and he needs to do likewise.

I stayed out of this debate because I have spent considerable time around a working Hispanic population and worked side by side with them on various projects. The ones I was around were very good and caring people who were proud to be in the US and providing for their families. I am not sure how many were even legally here but many were doing jobs in that area that no one else would do. That is a fact. Even with our high unemployment in many areas of the US, many of the people who are unemployed view certain jobs as beneath their dignity and these people are doing those jobs.

The ones here illegally, on welfare, draining our system and not working should and need to be sent back home. The ones here that are trying to fit in to our society and make a better life by working should have the ability to gain citizenship some how and some way. I do not have the answers and it appears very much like our government does not have an answer or a way to solve the problem at the present time. I do believe our economy would suffer gravely if all of the illegals are deported and that is the reason the government does not want to address the problem. Which ever party is in power and does take a deportation stand will suffer in the end as the economy will be hurt.

I am not taking sides in this debate. I am only expressing my views which have changed after working and being around certain possibly illegal immigrants from Mexico that were very honest and good people except for the immigration issue. We need to take a second look at how we perceive others and make sure we see the complete picture and not just a snap shot of our own thoughts and beliefs that have been told to us by others.

Okay now rip me up............:yum:
 
I have always thought they were good hard working people. The point is the illegal ones are ILLEGAL. And that is my only problem with the entire issue. I dont think the lawbreakers should be grandfathered in and some legal ones have to wait.
 
Paul is real. I had several telephone conversations with him about snow cats prior to this thread in late December. He does live in Colorado and I do believe he was a lawyer at one time and is now retired. His opinion is his and we all need to remain civil even when we disagree with him and he needs to do likewise.

I stayed out of this debate because I have spent considerable time around a working Hispanic population and worked side by side with them on various projects. The ones I was around were very good and caring people who were proud to be in the US and providing for their families. I am not sure how many were even legally here but many were doing jobs in that area that no one else would do. That is a fact. Even with our high unemployment in many areas of the US, many of the people who are unemployed view certain jobs as beneath their dignity and these people are doing those jobs.

The ones here illegally, on welfare, draining our system and not working should and need to be sent back home. The ones here that are trying to fit in to our society and make a better life by working should have the ability to gain citizenship some how and some way. I do not have the answers and it appears very much like our government does not have an answer or a way to solve the problem at the present time. I do believe our economy would suffer gravely if all of the illegals are deported and that is the reason the government does not want to address the problem. Which ever party is in power and does take a deportation stand will suffer in the end as the economy will be hurt.

I am not taking sides in this debate. I am only expressing my views which have changed after working and being around certain possibly illegal immigrants from Mexico that were very honest and good people except for the immigration issue. We need to take a second look at how we perceive others and make sure we see the complete picture and not just a snap shot of our own thoughts and beliefs that have been told to us by others.

Okay now rip me up............:yum:


No ripping up from me, you make sense. NO ONE has said anything about the 'legal immigrants' and I totally agree with you. It is a shame that some "Americans by whatever' think some work, even if they dont have any, and below them. I have dug ditches and worn a suit every day...........I like what I do now, nites watching computers work!
 
Not to try to stir the pot here, but are we not being just a little bit prejudicial in our statements here, not all Native Americans have a last name that would indicate just by the name that they are Native American.

The fact is that some Native American tribes have become so integrated with the round eyes that in some tribes there are a lot of blond people who are at least one half Native American.



BINGO! I am 1/4 Indian. My Mom is 1/2. BUT I am as white as they come!
 
The ones here illegally, on welfare, draining our system and not working should and need to be sent back home. The ones here that are trying to fit in to our society and make a better life by working should have the ability to gain citizenship some how and some way.

I completely agree. We are all immigrants here to some degree. The ones that chose to become U.S. citizens through proper channels (for lack of a better term) are some of the ones that make this country great.

I believe that they should all be welcomed as long as they want to become productive members of our society.
 
Thanks MTN TPR, I appreciate the support while you tried to stay out of this one, my biggest contention is that if they are here, they have rights, if you and I like it or not...... the whole basis of our society is equal rights, there is due process of the system for the " illegals also" its called immigration court, or a I9, and there are several others also, with out this system we would have Anarchy, similar to the cold war era, Paul
 
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Let's say I break into your house...

A lady wrote the best letter in the Editorials in ages!!! It explains things better than all the baloney you hear on TV.

Her point:
Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.

Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.

Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house.
Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.
But I say, 'I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).

According to the protesters:
You are Required to let me stay in your house You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan You are Required to Educate my kids You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family (my husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part) .

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house.
And what a deal it is for me!!!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold,
uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.

Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you learn MY LANGUAGE!!! so you can communicate with me.

Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?!
Only in America .
Certainly not in Mexico.
 
Welcome to FF Mobilus!!!! I'm glad you came on over. :thumb:

Good post. It gets the point across in a way that is hard to miss. :thumb:
 
Let's say I break into your house...

A lady wrote the best letter in the Editorials in ages!!! It explains things better than all the baloney you hear on TV.

Her point:
Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.

Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.

Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house.
Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.
But I say, 'I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).

According to the protesters:
You are Required to let me stay in your house You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan You are Required to Educate my kids You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family (my husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part) .

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house.
And what a deal it is for me!!!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold,
uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.

Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you learn MY LANGUAGE!!! so you can communicate with me.

Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?!
Only in America .
Certainly not in Mexico.
The only problem with your " hypothetical situation is thats what it is" I deal in real situations in real courts with real people, you cant justify what you say in your minds eye type situation... not to mention that if someone did break into a home they would be arrested for B & E and charged with a felony, in which case they would have a immigration hold for deportation, which is real.
 
The only problem with your " hypothetical situation is thats what it is" I deal in real situations in real courts with real people, you cant justify what you say in your minds eye type situation... not to mention that if someone did break into a home they would be arrested for B & E and charged with a felony, in which case they would have a immigration hold for deportation, which is real.

I assume that you don't see the Illegals as criminals in the way they got here. Nobody here has any complaints about those that came here legally, and America in general has been with wide open arms for those that go though the system legally.

I would also assume that by your unfailing view that "We" as Americans that are legal residents of America by modern laws, are a mean and cruel people in wanting to kick out those that don't respect our Nation's imigration laws?

You keep refering to what happened hundreds of years ago to which none of us here were a part of in establishing America as it is today. Even Mexico was overrun by the Spanish and most of it's citizens are from a Spanish heritage, not the South Americans whom were mostly killed by sword or deseases brought over from Europe.

So what are your thoughts on the Spanish that killed most of the Mexican Indians then and put them into Slavery.... You seem to only view history from one view point, which is "America Bad"
 
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Mr. Webster, your legalistic banter points out your obvious flaw: Refusal to see the forest for the trees. Taken as an analogous commentary of the greater state of illegal immigration, I think that my last post is accurate.

Breaking into house = illegal entry into the USA. This isn't just wading across the Rio Grande, you know. Human trafficking is big money, and the cargo comes from all over the world.

Staying indefinitely = obviously the goal of the vast majority of illegal immigrants. Of those that you make reference to when you speak of deportation, how many have committed a felonious act? The reality is, if an illegal immigrant stays out of trouble once he or she gets here, they're very unlikely to be deported.

Illegals DO get free medical care...and my young working-class daughter and her family DO NOT. Unless they're still under their parents health insurance (acceptable if still in college), the number of young adults without health insurance coverage is staggering. This isn't a plea for universal health insurance, but a reason to cut off the free-flowing spigot from which the illegal population sao readily take advantage.

Illegals DO send their kids to our schools...overloading the school infrastructure in many cases, while creating a fiscal burden on local governments. Giving citizenship to a US-born child of illegal immigrants (criminals) is totally different than appling that priviledge to a child born on U.S. soil to parents in a legal immigration status.

Suppose a girl is raped, a terrible unconscionable act in any regard, but the caveat is that the act was committed by a convicted felon. This man crossed acceptable, established boundaries of ethical conduct, and he forced himself on someone, taking from her something that cannot be replaced, and leaving in its absence something that will always bring great pain. This simply describes the rape of America's people through the uncontrolled losses of national pride, finances, and good judgment. Once, "Made in America" meant something other than an addendum to the line that starts with "I got it..."

And as far as Mexico is concerned, what incentive is there for the nation to advance its culture and infrastructure as a whole when it is waiting north of the border?
 
Then the only advice I can give your daughter is to write her congressman and complain, because if they are here they have the rights you are complaining about !!! I dont clain to know the immigration answer, I am just saying that if they are here they have rights, period. if you and I dont like then we have to try and get it changed, its that simple. good luck if you write the letter to congressman/woman.
 
Then the only advice I can give your daughter is to write her congressman and complain, because if they are here they have the rights you are complaining about !!! I dont clain to know the immigration answer, I am just saying that if they are here they have rights, period. if you and I dont like then we have to try and get it changed, its that simple. good luck if you write the letter to congressman/woman.

The only rights they have being here illegally is to be arrested, read their rights in accordance with being arrested, and deported at the time it is determined that they are not U.S. Citizens or here legally. Ok, maybe given a fee cup of coffee while waiting for the bus and a sandwhich so they aren't starving. The second time they are caught, they get to go home after spending time in prision would be a better deal at hard labor since they wanted to come here to work anyway.
 
Well, all I can say is thats why you have the occupation that you have and I am a Lawyer, its obvious that you are one dimensional, if that in your thinking, not to mention that you have denied them the right to due process, and in the process have violated the 1st,4th and probobly the 6th amendment rights, so unless you understand the legal process and have spent time in a court your miniscule thought process means less than nothing, thats all it is, that would never hold any water in any court, not even the court of public opinion.
 
Well, all I can say is thats why you have the occupation that you have and I am a Lawyer, its obvious that you are one dimensional, if that in your thinking, not to mention that you have denied them the right to due process, and in the process have violated the 1st,4th and probobly the 6th amendment rights, so unless you understand the legal process and have spent time in a court your miniscule thought process means less than nothing, thats all it is, that would never hold any water in any court, not even the court of public opinion.

Awww, a lawyer... That explains why you are so much in favor of the illegals, you see money rolling in from bogus class action lawsuits.

When I was a police officer in my youth, I had to read the rights to alot of them. They got nothing but due process, and that was too much, because I was arresting them after stealing, knifing each other, selling drugs, stealing cars and assorted sex crimes.

I am well aware of the legal process and it is guys like you that have morphed it into a real mess and the criminals have all the rights and the victims none.

Do you have any idea how easy it would be for me catching an Illegal that had kidnapped a 6 year old and was raping her when I caught him to put a bullet though his head. I didn't, I did the arrest with all legal "Due Process" and he got off with a hand slap for all practical purposes because a slimey lawyer said he didn't understand our laws....

Nope, I can see why you are so much in favor of defending the illegals, it is a gold mine for you.... They get no simpathy from me or most of the rest of American's, we have enough slime here without it coming here illegally, and that is the first crime they commited...

Seems that you have nothing but elitist arrogance and contempt for those that are Americans, my "miniscule thought process" and background in the legal system was based in upholding the Laws of the United States, not Mexico.

By the way, I had a better than 95% criminal conviction rating in Court and no appeals overturned any of my cases... can you make that claim.... The Illegal that was cut free for kidnapping and rape was one of the few exceptions, in that he did time, but only 30 days then deported, so it was a poor win record on my part.
 
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Paul,

Your last post is a personal attack. Not tolerated... Please stick with debating the issue.
 
...not to mention that you have denied them the right to due process, and in the process have violated the 1st,4th and probobly the 6th amendment rights

From wikipedia:

First Amendment: addresses the rights of freedom of religion (prohibiting Congressional establishment of a religion over another religion through Law and protecting the right to free exercise of religion), freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of petition.


Fourth Amendment: guards against searches, arrests, and seizures of property without a specific warrant or a "probable cause" to believe a crime has been committed. Some rights to privacy have been inferred from this amendment and others by the Supreme Court.


Sixth Amendment: guarantees a speedy public trial for criminal offenses. It requires trial by a jury, guarantees the right to legal counsel for the accused, and guarantees that the accused may require witnesses to attend the trial and testify in the presence of the accused. It also guarantees the accused a right to know the charges against him. The Sixth Amendment has several court cases associated with it, including Powell v. Alabama, United States v. Wong Kim Ark, Gideon v. Wainwright, and Crawford v. Washington. In 1966, the Supreme Court ruled that the fifth amendment prohibition on forced self-incrimination and the sixth amendment clause on right to counsel were to be made known to all persons placed under arrest, and these clauses have become known as the Miranda rights.

So, Mr. Webster, how does the first amendment apply to illegal immigrants?

As to the Fourth Amendment, if a person has violated the borders of this country by committing the crime of illegal entry, probable cause for search, seizure, and arrest has been clearly proven.

And for the Sixth Amendment, this is the teat from which all defense attorneys suckle...especially in a cut-and-dried case such as illegal immigration. If a person cannot prove his or her citizenship, then he or she should get exactly what the Sixth Amendment calls for: A speedy public trial.

If you are indeed a lawyer, you should have mentioned the Fourteenth Amendment, which I think is the ammo that you were searching for in your rebuttal to fogtender.

The Fourteenth Amendment:

...stated, in part, that:No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The question that you and I are likely to disagree upon is the clause in the middle of that passage. I believe that it applies to citizens of the United States, as such that it is in the same Amendment, and follows the stated delineation (...of citizens of the United States;...) in the first part.

Your thoughts?
 
Well, all I can say is thats why you have the occupation that you have and I am a Lawyer, its obvious that you are one dimensional, if that in your thinking, not to mention that you have denied them the right to due process, and in the process have violated the 1st,4th and probobly the 6th amendment rights, so unless you understand the legal process and have spent time in a court your miniscule thought process means less than nothing, thats all it is, that would never hold any water in any court, not even the court of public opinion.

Could you try a little harder to insult him? If this is an example of your
prowess as a litigator, I'm not impressed.:shitHitFan: :puke1:
 
Could you try a little harder to insult him? If this is an example of your
prowess as a litigator, I'm not impressed.:shitHitFan: :puke1:

I wasn't insulted in the least, that is exactly what happens when someone can't support a view that isn't correct, legal or even close to it. They just pop a cork, seems to happen here a lot.... it is sad, too bad.

I use to enjoy being crossed examined by the defense lawyers on a trial trying to make me look stupid to get their client off. It use to drive them nuts when you kept asking the the Judge to have them rephrase a ("trick") question because you couldn't "understand what they were asking" (while looking at the judge with a confused look on my face).

After the Judge directs them to rephrase the question a number of times, to a point it doesn't have any merit to his side of the trial, they would stomp off to their table.

Nope, dealt with that type for years, and much worse.

But thanks for your opinion Redrocker! :thumb:
 
............... not to mention that you have denied them the right to due process, and in the process have violated the 1st,4th and probobly the 6th amendment rights, so unless you understand the legal process and have spent time in a court your miniscule thought process means less than nothing, thats all it is, that would never hold any water in any court, not even the court of public opinion.

Can we throw in the Bill of Rights also......... it makes for a more rounded defense. Where is Clarence Darrow when you need him............. but then I haven't seen William Jennings Bryan around here either. I have noticed that there are an over abundance of John T. Scopes types lurking around these parts....:yum:
 
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