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I just inherited a retired snow trac from Search and Rescue

WardPilot

WardPilot

Member
My name is Ed Ward. I’m here in Snohomish, Washingto.
I just inherited (a week ago) a snow trac from king county search and rescue. St4 1967 #823.
It’s been abused and neglected. I’m like a sucker for taking it as it need a lot of work.
The engine is fried, the heat shields have been lost long ago and they cooked the motor as a result. The first vw shop I spoke with (Buttera in Kirkland) doesn’t want to touch it.
The track need to be replaced. (New tracks are ordered)
Just offloaded it from the trailer and surprise! The snow trac can only turn left.
The exhaust system needs to be reconfigured. (Plan to have a tail pipe out the back so fumes don’t enter the cab).

I found your website and I want and need all the advise I can get and hope you can point me in the right directions, and guide me towards folks with like experience.

Thanks in advance.
Ed
Wardpilot@yahoo.com
 

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Hi Ed. Your Snow Trac is an earlier model "small wheel" unit, the photo makes it look like it is in nice condition, nicer than your description. Sounds like the Variator needs some work if you can only turn left. Engine should be an industrial VW engine, pretty much the same thing they put in the VW Beetle/Bus street vehicles and if your engine is trash you can do an engine swap, even trick it out for more performance.. Tracks are tedious to rebuild but not all that hard, just a lot of repetitive steps drilling and attaching the grousers.

I sold my Snow Trac a few years back but I'm sure there are several current owners here who can help you with current parts sources.
 
Thank you for the input - I need and welcome all I can get.
the previous photo I took last night in the dark. Yesterday I de-oxidized and detailed the exterior to try and preserve the paint job it got 6 years ago.
here‘s a couple of daytime shots I took this morning.
Ed
 

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Looks a heck of a lot better than what I had when I started with mine and I've seen others bring them back from total junk piles so you have a great start on a machine that is not at all hopeless.

The VARIATOR controls your steering and that is likely the biggest hurdle you will find for parts. It was custom designed specifically for these things and, if it truly is broken, you may need to find a machinist and have him make you an internal part or two, to get it so you can actually turn both directions.
 
Welcome to our forums. I agree it does look better than I expected from your description.
I will move this thread to the snowcat forums so it will be seen by more snowcatters.
Good luck with the restore.
 
OH MY....A cute little jewel.

A lot of potential there.

Welcome to the crew......Snow cats are an incurable disease ya know.... :thumbup:
:thumbup: :thumbup:
 
i been out with that cat a few times. not riding but with my snowtrac. it was donated from an estate in california from what i was told. yes the exhaust needs rerouted. it overheated every time we were out. stick a motor in it. the same size preferably or get that one rebuild then fix the belt /steering. most likely it is out of adjustment. but i'm just guessing. don't even try running it with the exhaust in the engine bay. that is why the pans are missing. from the muffler run it through the pan and under it to the rear. i can send a picture if you like. i am in enumclaw, it is worth fixing.
 

Variator

This thread will cover the History, Operation & Maintenance of Snow Trac, Snow Master and Trac Master Variators in approximately 27 Chapters. So that you don't have to read thru the entire thing just to find out the answer to one question, each Chapter will be it's own Reply. History and...
www.forumsforums.com www.forumsforums.com
 
Thank you Thank you. The feed back is great.
Found an engine - Porsche 356 - 90hp. (Yes - I'm power hungry!)
Tracks are cracking. Have replacements (pre-drilled) coming from FallLine.com in Reno.
Definitely want to see photos - JimVT - Send the picture you have of the exhaust work you've done.
Thanks again for the advice.
 
Hi Ed, great looking machine, 90hp should get it moving ok! I'd definitely make sure all the correct cooling tinware is in place before running that though - they do seem to overheat at the slightest excuse, I've fitted mine with a type 4 oversize oil cooler and it still runs hot after more than 4 or 5 miles use.
Have a look at my restoration thread https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/st4-back-from-the-dead.86198/ it covers work on most parts of the ST4
 
Single carb Porsche?

There were a few very early Snow Tracs (and a handful of Kristi KT3's) that had Porsche engines as OEM. Several were ANARE Antarctic research machines, one of which ended up on the ocean floor. :whistling: Another Porsche powered Snow Trac turned up in Australia not so long ago. They used a single carb industrial version of this engine.
Twin carbs and Snow Trac final drive chains don't play well together at all.
Not saying in cannot be done but is a very tough nut to crack.
The industrial engine is rated at 75 HP if my memory is correct.
With that kind of power, a 15-tooth driver to replace the standard 11 tooth sprocket in the final drive is worth considering.
 
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Blind man and the elephant is the analogy that comes to mind. I don't know what I don't know, but I know I don't know anything!
This one had bee fitted with an external oil cooler, but was still overheated from what I've heard.
Puckle: The cooling tinware / heat shielding is top of my list. I've seen dozens of images, but could use some expertise input on the optimum application. Your restoration project is something to see. Way out of my league.
300 H and H:The motor is dual carb. What "nut cracking" advise have you got? Know of a source for the 15-tooth sprocket?

The way the world is, it's nice to have this kind of project to obsess over!
 
For your dual carb motor, I would suggest hunting down a bit of un-obtainium. That would be an intake and carb from
the industrial version of your engine. I have seen several complete non running industrial engines for sale over the years. Not to mention correct for a Snow Trac... You must remember the "hunt" is at
least half the fun of these endeavors. :thumbup:

As for the 15 tooth drivers, and additional speed, you just need the proper gear with a blank center. Then turn off the gear of your original
to form a hub to fit the 15-tooth gear and weld them up. (The chain and sprockets are metric. You must never use SAE #80 chain) Or if you're in the mood these 15 tooth drivers were a factory option for machines that lived in flat country.
Again, it is the "hunt" that will consume your time.... until the day you score! :biggrin:
 
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Nice machine! I am jealous!
I wouldn't use the Porsche engine however. A Type 1 VW engine is FAR cheaper and has much greater power potential. The parts availability and selection for the VW is 100 times greater than the Porsche.
But hey, it's your ride.
I look forward to seeing what you do with it!
 
You guys are great. Before I become a long term source of entertainmen as I stumble around in the dark…
let me ask, knowing these snow tracs have been around globally for longer than I have (barely), which of you grand masters has the book of knowledge… the grand ”list” of things that are good ideas and things that will get you in trouble, or worse. Call me optimistic, but I’m hoping there’s a academic approach vs a tribal approach were tales are shared by laughing wise men only after the fact saying “Well you shouldn’t have done that…”. throw me a bone People, or at least “the list”.
 
Your sno trac looks to be in great condition. You might even run those belts for a bit. The variator is easy to adjust and would be my guess to helping it turn right. I didn’t look at the links posted but there is a good description of how to adjust in the forum. One thing about a bigger aircooled engine is that is creates more heat which is the killer of an aircooled engine. For reliability, I would go stock and have fun with it. And as been mentioned , proper tin and intake air horn and run the exhaust all the way back.
 
Here's a before and after to show the progress I've made on the exterior. The new driving lights are halogen. I was surprised I had to hunt for them as the market is flooded with LED and LEDs suck in the snow since they don't heat up.

Guess I got lucky regarding the Porsche engine with dual carbs - the seller came back asking for more money so I was able to cancel the order. I'm starting fresh regarding engine research. The type 1 VW suggestion is intriguing. Going stock is makes for a pleasant ride, but I want a rig that I can't walk faster than. If anyone wants to way in on more engine advice - NOW is the time!

My first priority now is the engine: attached is a photo that shows how they ran the enhaust through the engine compartment! Ouch! Additionally a oil cooler was installed, but never connected to the motor! It appears to be piped from a externally located oil filter to the cooler, then back to the filter (it completely bypassed the engine!) Finally, to install the cooler, they pushed the shield back towards the engine reducing the airspace around the block while increasing the shield gapping allowing more heat from the muffler to be funneled straight into the engine area. No wonder it's toast.

Search and rescue dropped this for being unreliable (they had to abandon it on one mission). As I continue to work with the search and rescue unit, I feel its critical that everything be above par in order for me to participate on missions with this particular tool. The tracks may have a little life left in them, but performing at 100% is better that running on something in the back country that's weak. Lives depend on it.

So for the moment, I have the coolest yard art in the neighborhood. The neighbors think I've watched the movie "day after tomorrow" too many times.
 

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Every person you consult will give you different advice about what engine and what engine modifications are best to achieve your performance goals.
Here are my humble suggestions and the logic behind them:
Keep the machine air cooled VW powered.
Converting to water cooling increases complexity, cost, maintenance, weight and requires substantial fabricating skills and tools. The previous post shows how to do that correctly. If you are capable of that level of craftsmanship, go for it. (Their Snow Trac is truly awesome!)
If you are like the rest of us, something more simple is more feasible.
Room constraints are going to work against you at every turn.
Dual carburetors on the air cooled VW will interfere with the drive chains on each side of the engine. Stay with a 2 barrel carburetor mounted at the center of the engine. (Possibly build a hood bulge or scoop for clearance)
Start with a 1600cc engine base. Build as large a displacement combination as your budget allows. I suggest a 92mm bore (thick-wall cylinder style. These have a thicker cylinder wall that tolerates hard use and elevated temperatures better than say, a 94mm bore can.)
Keep the cam specs on the mild/low rpm torque side of the spectrum. You are always going to need to start out in a higher gear than would be optimal. So the low rpm grunt power is PARAMOUNT! Along those same lines of logic: if you can afford a longer stroke crankshaft then by all means do so. A 78mm or 82mm are ideal for your situation. Other stroke sizes will complicate the build without getting you corresponding increases in power.
With this new-found power you can readily take advantage of the different sprocket tooth combinations mentioned in a previous post. EXCELLENT tactic!
But the sprocket tooth changes will exaggerate the speed gaps between transmission gears. Since 1st gear has little practical use in a Snow Trac with 100 horsepower, and because shifting up while in soft snow will suck all the momentum out of a stock - geared transmission, you need to close up the gaps between transmission speeds.
Change the ring and pinion to the VW 3.78 ratio and MOST IMPORTANTLY, change 3rd gear to a 1.48 and 4th to a 1.04 or a 1.14.
These changes to the transmission alone will feel like adding 30-plus horsepower! And, with the gear speeds so much closer together, you have a real chance of shifting up without totally stalling out and having to start off again from a stand still.
Do these upgrades, change to the "dog house" style of oil cooler, place sheet metal barriers between the engine and the exhaust (look at any stock Beetle engine compartment for ideas) and route said exhaust down out of the engine compartment and all the way to the back.
Literally amazing performance and versatility will be your reward.
Done correctly you should be able to achieve and maintain 35-plus mph.
That might not seem like much by snowmobile standards but believe me, ITS TOUGHER THAN IT LOOKS!!
 
One thing that is often missed is the engine Thermostat and fan shroud louvers. I live in a place that can dip below Zero and stay there for a few days.

Sometimes in the morning it can be -20. Running an air-cooled VW in these conditions the cylinders will not warm quickly or even at all
if the engine is not under substantial load. This I have read can cause premature wear in the cylinder bores and rings. Locating an original VW thermostat and bracketry was not as easy as I had hoped. A local salvage yard came to the rescue, and I sourced it of a non-running bug. It makes it a P.I.T.A. to remove the upper fan shroud as it must be disconnected from underneath the engine. And you have a belly pan to remove first. Most original VW thermostats got pitched in a snowbank.

I find that having a working set of shutters directing cooling air as needed to the area's that need it was carefully designed into the
factory system. I have heat faster in the cabin even when idling, and the engine stays warmer in subzero temps we sometimes see.

Just something else to consider.
 
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Yes. Thermostat and Shutters. Mucho Importante!
An intake manifold that circulates hot exhaust along the cross - tube. ESSENTIAL!
A "heat stove" that feeds heated air to the carburetor inlet. (Like a stock early-70s Beetle) Positively Mandatory!!!
You cannot possibly have "too much" heat to the intake manifold and air cleaner intake on a single - carburetor VW that is operating in the snow/winter! I mean it!
Achieving sufficient heat on the intake side (even on a "stock" single - carburetor VW) will require the most careful fabrication (because the aftermarket doesn't make the correct pieces) and simultaneously be the most rewarding for driveability. I cannot stress this enough!
Make it EFI if you have the capability. A big help in dealing with cold starts and elevation. Look to the late 1990s Mexi Beetles for intake manifold and throttle body.
It's all possible. It just takes effort and attention to detail. And Heat to the Intake!!
 
mine came with a 40hp 1200 engine and i run it on several SAR missions fuel useage was great. I could go fast as needed but run a lower gear on the hills compared to the stock 1600cc. I then put a stock 1600 in and now sometimes start out in 3rd gear. I also carry extra fuel because usage went up. I would put the same engine back in it. Then you don't need to grind the bellhousing for the clutch to work. it is easy to swap out engines later if you want the speed. they bounce good so on our trails over 20mph is rare at least for me. A close up of that enging e looks like you may have the 1600. just move that exaust and adjust the steering and thankgivin you'll be in the snow. by the way a vw diesel has the same bolt pattern and will bolt up. jim KF7RiN
 
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