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Calling all knowledgable men........chainsaw
- Thread starter cowgirl
- Start date
Dargo
Like a bad penny...
Well now, that depends young whipper snapper. Older stuff generally required a 32:1 ratio for the gas to oil mixture. A bit later stuff called for a 40:1 ratio. Some of the last 2 cycle stuff called for a 50:1 ratio. So, it really depends on what the manufacturer calls for. If in doubt, mix it rich; going with ratio closer to the 32:1 amount.
Since about everything was 32:1 when I raced motocross (back when dirt was new), I got in the habit of always going with that ratio. Some say that doing so can foul a spark plug on new stuff and possibly clog the spark arrestor in the exhaust. Personally I can tell you that I haven't fouled any plugs and for some reason I misplaced my spark arrestor back in the 90's.
My 'really new' stuff is all 4 stroke, which doesn't require any oil mixed in the gas. I've been surprised how well my trimmers, edgers and string trimmers have done for being little 4 strokers. I thought they'd be dogs since they really don't weigh much, but they aren't. Heck, all of my newer Jet Skis are even 4 strokes now. I wonder if chain saws are going to 4 strokes. I suppose the EPA will force them to do so sooner or later.
Since about everything was 32:1 when I raced motocross (back when dirt was new), I got in the habit of always going with that ratio. Some say that doing so can foul a spark plug on new stuff and possibly clog the spark arrestor in the exhaust. Personally I can tell you that I haven't fouled any plugs and for some reason I misplaced my spark arrestor back in the 90's.
My 'really new' stuff is all 4 stroke, which doesn't require any oil mixed in the gas. I've been surprised how well my trimmers, edgers and string trimmers have done for being little 4 strokers. I thought they'd be dogs since they really don't weigh much, but they aren't. Heck, all of my newer Jet Skis are even 4 strokes now. I wonder if chain saws are going to 4 strokes. I suppose the EPA will force them to do so sooner or later.
I skimmed the thread, not having time to read in detail every post.
My 2 cents.
Buy him the saw he asked for. He's somehow come to the conclusion that's the saw he wants/needs.
Now, another 2 cents...
I'm with Mainer. I think pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar, the Husqvarna professional series saws are the ones to beat. BTW, there's a huge difference between "homeowners" and "professional" saws.
My little saw is a Husky 338XTP. At 8 pounds (about a gallon of milk) with over 2.5 HP and single handed operation, it's a tough saw to beat for topping out a tree (or cutting down trees up to 12-14").
A storm a few years back brought together all the locals with their saws to clean up the mess. Well, my one neighbor was ripping through trees with his Stihl MS 029. A friend (running a big, old Homelite) watched that thing rip and decided he wanted one. He got the MS 290 (re-named MS 029). Well, I was running my Husky 365 on an old chain so I wasn't quite keeping up.
Fast forward a week to the next weekend... Roads and driveways cleared and we have a bit more time. I replaced my chain. My friend has his new MS 290. We're now gathering the butt logs which are 28- 36". He quickly became discouraged with the 290 after standing side-by-side with my 365.
Now, I do really like Stihl equipment and have several but in terms of saws, I'll give the overall rating to the Husky. Price, service... are also a factor (Stihl being very proprietary and expensive).
The Stihl BR600 backpack blower is in my mind the benchmark for leaf blowers. Their MS series weed-eaters are great (but probably not as good as the Echo's).
Stihl has a great future with their 4-MIX product lines. They start and run like a 4-cycle but are really a 2-cycle. First-pull starting, quieter, plenty of power... they're on to something there.
My 2 cents.
Buy him the saw he asked for. He's somehow come to the conclusion that's the saw he wants/needs.
Now, another 2 cents...
I'm with Mainer. I think pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar, the Husqvarna professional series saws are the ones to beat. BTW, there's a huge difference between "homeowners" and "professional" saws.
My little saw is a Husky 338XTP. At 8 pounds (about a gallon of milk) with over 2.5 HP and single handed operation, it's a tough saw to beat for topping out a tree (or cutting down trees up to 12-14").
A storm a few years back brought together all the locals with their saws to clean up the mess. Well, my one neighbor was ripping through trees with his Stihl MS 029. A friend (running a big, old Homelite) watched that thing rip and decided he wanted one. He got the MS 290 (re-named MS 029). Well, I was running my Husky 365 on an old chain so I wasn't quite keeping up.
Fast forward a week to the next weekend... Roads and driveways cleared and we have a bit more time. I replaced my chain. My friend has his new MS 290. We're now gathering the butt logs which are 28- 36". He quickly became discouraged with the 290 after standing side-by-side with my 365.
Now, I do really like Stihl equipment and have several but in terms of saws, I'll give the overall rating to the Husky. Price, service... are also a factor (Stihl being very proprietary and expensive).
The Stihl BR600 backpack blower is in my mind the benchmark for leaf blowers. Their MS series weed-eaters are great (but probably not as good as the Echo's).
Stihl has a great future with their 4-MIX product lines. They start and run like a 4-cycle but are really a 2-cycle. First-pull starting, quieter, plenty of power... they're on to something there.
Mainer
Boggie likes our museum
Tell you what, get him a Husky and a Stihl...wrap them both up... print out this whole post and give him two gift receipts and... voila...let him choose his poison. Both dealers will do 100% back...so no risk. Just make sure you buy saws of equal dollar value... no, don't let him cut wood with them or you/he can't get the coinage back (in most cases and don't gamble for obvious reasons...unless you ask at the dealer). Oh, and include the product spec sheets with each saw...Horsepower, weight, etc... and spend the same on each saw.
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Wannafish
Floppy Member
I have to disagree.
I can have my chain tightened while you are still reaching for your wrench.
To each their own!
mtntopper
Back On Track
Good Girl!!!!!!!!!!
I have 3 Stihls, 1 Jonserd, and a small Echo arborist type for smaller work. I have run the Husky saws often, worked on them and they work great. I can buy what ever brand I want but I buy saws according to the job I want them to do for me. It sounds like he has determined the job and size of the saw he wants for the job. Buy him what he wants and he Will be happy.
As to the real differences in saws it mostly comes down to personal preference along with a good dealer that can sell and service saws. I like my Stihls as the dependability factor is great. They start good, idle between jobs and cut very well when the chain and bars are maintained. The Jonsered is about 35 years old and is still running. I use it sparingly as the newer saws are more user friendly but it will saw wood with the best of any of the older saws in that class. The Echo is my carry along saw on the snow machine, snow cat and ATV. This saw will just scream and cuts decent for a small saw. I would not cut firewood with it all day but as a quick emergency tool it fills the bill well. I do maintenance on all my saws after each usage which is blow them out with the air compressor, check air filter, fill with fuel and oil, and sharpen or touch up the chain as needed along with a visual checkoff. I will check the spark arrestors on the ones that have them and clean as needed. My saws are always kept ready as we will have trees fall across our road and must remove them to get in and out. I cut 5 to 7 cords of firewood a year for our use and help others get their wood. We use chainsaws when building fences and cleaning up debris on our property. I do trail maintenance and must clear down trees and branches to keep the trial system we use open in the winter and summer. Buying the right saw is personal preference and buying a saw that does the job you need done at a great price makes you feel even better.
Most of my saws were purchased used from my local Husky dealer and were trade ins. I ask him why people trade in almost new saws that work well for the new orange brand he sells? He laughs and says most people can not tune a saw to do its full potential and come in complaining that the saws does not do this and that instead of going back to the dealer they purchased it from as they had their hands in it trying to tune it for their use or it was never set up proper when they bought it. Saws that are tuned to run at 3,000 foot elevation perform like turds at 8,000 so they run to a dealer that will either sell them a saw set for the proper elevation and trade in that barely used POS saw which I buy and tune for my elevation and usage while saving a bundle of money. I walk away with the dreaded leftovers at the Husky shop while the shop owner laughs. He knows there is nothing wrong with most major brand saws other than a little tune for elevation which he does very well for his saws he sells. The local Stihl service dealer is just not on par with the Husky dealer and service. They change mechanics too often and the service level is just not there. That is the reason I do my own work or take to the Husky dealer. When I take a saw in for any repair which is very seldom I tell them do not touch or try to tune on my carb and I tell them I realize it will run like a turd in their shop in town but screams like an eagle at 8500 foot elevation. Once they are set for where you work leave them alone, I do make minor adjustments according to humidity and air temp changes summer to winter to keep them running top notch but that is about all that is needed if you just take care of it like any tool.
Between me and my family, we have a cross section of saws, but mostly Stihl and Husky. I have found both brands work well. I personally like Stihls, but have a couple Husky's because I could not pass up a good deal used.
I have my Dad's Stihl at my house right now and have been using it. It is an awesome saw. It is also 28 years old. It's a smaller 024AV he got new in 1980. That has always been my favorite saw. Great power for its size, always runs good, has excellent balance.
I also have a Husky 338xtp arborist saw. That saw is great. Tons of power, small, easy to use.
But, for most things, I will reach for my Dad's Stihl if it is around, even over much newer saws.
I do prefer to spend a little extra for a Pro saw. I will buy for the work to be done too; I did not prefer Stihl's equivilant to the Husky 338... However, I will usually reach for a Stihl.
I have my Dad's Stihl at my house right now and have been using it. It is an awesome saw. It is also 28 years old. It's a smaller 024AV he got new in 1980. That has always been my favorite saw. Great power for its size, always runs good, has excellent balance.
I also have a Husky 338xtp arborist saw. That saw is great. Tons of power, small, easy to use.
But, for most things, I will reach for my Dad's Stihl if it is around, even over much newer saws.
I do prefer to spend a little extra for a Pro saw. I will buy for the work to be done too; I did not prefer Stihl's equivilant to the Husky 338... However, I will usually reach for a Stihl.
Mith
The Eccentric Englishman
I've been around alot of both Stihl and Husky. Personally, I prefer Stihl, both to handle, but especially to work on. The quality of the Husky doesnt really impress me. Petty maybe, but on some of their saws you need a screwdriver to access the air filter, that just shouldnt be!
Anyway, IMO, just buy the saw he wants.
However, if you do buy him a saw, at the very least, buy some headgear, trousers and maybe gloves. Especially if he is planning to work alone. Seeming as it doesn't sound like he has used a saw before get him something to teach the basics of saw handling. A book or DVD. Dont let him learn from his friends, bad habits.....
The safety gear is expensive, but its cheaper than a new body part. Leg, hand and head injuries are most common with saws. As they say, injuries from chainsaws are rarely superficial.
Best bet is to buy stihl oil for the saw too. It actually works out cheaper. You can mix Sthil oil at 50:1 for a Stihl saw, but generic oil needs to be mixed at 25:1. Seeming as Stihl oil isn't 2x the price of normal (decent) oil you are actually saving money.
Anyway, IMO, just buy the saw he wants.
However, if you do buy him a saw, at the very least, buy some headgear, trousers and maybe gloves. Especially if he is planning to work alone. Seeming as it doesn't sound like he has used a saw before get him something to teach the basics of saw handling. A book or DVD. Dont let him learn from his friends, bad habits.....
The safety gear is expensive, but its cheaper than a new body part. Leg, hand and head injuries are most common with saws. As they say, injuries from chainsaws are rarely superficial.
Best bet is to buy stihl oil for the saw too. It actually works out cheaper. You can mix Sthil oil at 50:1 for a Stihl saw, but generic oil needs to be mixed at 25:1. Seeming as Stihl oil isn't 2x the price of normal (decent) oil you are actually saving money.
200T in the Stihl? Looking at the specs that 338 will run circles around the 200T.
My wife uses [and I often nab for it's convenience] a 200 (she liked the balance of the T but I insisted she stay with the conventional for more control) and I always wondered how it compared to the 338. However it'd be mute in our case, as Husqvarna's data looks like they add a whole pound in the 339 over the 338.
Oh, back to the saws Cowgirl is pondering. Does Stihl use the fancy fill caps on the homeowner models too or just the pro models? They're really cool on the showroom shelf, but the first time you fill them while surounded by chips: all of a sudden simple caps seem to make more sense (and I'd think would cost a bit less too).
After reading Mith's points I thought of yet another option, but only you know if it would make you come off as the caring girlfriend or someone not even romatic enough to get a man exactly the gift he's yearning:
Buy him all the accessories! Helmet combo (I'm far from being an obsesive safety nut, but really like it), gloves, chaps, maybe some steel toe boots, saw case (I believe in Stihl it's universal up to 20" bar; I'm not exactly impressed with their case [I think the older ones were quite nice though], but a different brand wouldn't seem right) and don't forget a file.
I'll admit a bit pansy on my part vs. individual files, but I kind of like the PFERD ChainSharp guide combination with the round tooth file and flat depth file together.
Buy him all the accessories! Helmet combo (I'm far from being an obsesive safety nut, but really like it), gloves, chaps, maybe some steel toe boots, saw case (I believe in Stihl it's universal up to 20" bar; I'm not exactly impressed with their case [I think the older ones were quite nice though], but a different brand wouldn't seem right) and don't forget a file.
I'll admit a bit pansy on my part vs. individual files, but I kind of like the PFERD ChainSharp guide combination with the round tooth file and flat depth file together.
For an arborist saw, I haven't found anything that can yet touch the 338xtp.
Wannafish
Floppy Member
And that is something Stihl has that is miles ahead of Husky - the fuel and oil fill caps. Husky's are set flush which makes it a chore to see when you are filling them. I've decided it's easier to just stop filling when it overflows, rather than add some, look. Add some more, look. Add some more...
DANG IT - Overfilled again! Might as well just overfill it and be done. Stihl's caps extend above the saw and are large enough to see the level while filling. I give that design many thumbs UP.
After owning several different chainsaws, all I can say is that for me Stihl is the best, by far.
I do need to say that the Stihl saws come OEM with a "Safety Chain" on them which hampers their performance, a lot. I replaced that with a "yellow-professional" chain and my 16" 290 Farm Boss will out cut anything in it's class. From my observations, Stihl build quality is at least three or four steps ahead of McCulloch, Poulan, Husqvarna or any of the other big box store brands.
I keep two sharp yellows in reserve and the sharpened original (green) safety chain just in case. I probably cut and split 15 full chord this fall with this setup.
(IMO the easy start feature is a gimmick. I never saw the need. Even my wife can start my 290 saw, FS45 trimmer and MM55 mini-tiller without that feature.)
I do need to say that the Stihl saws come OEM with a "Safety Chain" on them which hampers their performance, a lot. I replaced that with a "yellow-professional" chain and my 16" 290 Farm Boss will out cut anything in it's class. From my observations, Stihl build quality is at least three or four steps ahead of McCulloch, Poulan, Husqvarna or any of the other big box store brands.
I keep two sharp yellows in reserve and the sharpened original (green) safety chain just in case. I probably cut and split 15 full chord this fall with this setup.
(IMO the easy start feature is a gimmick. I never saw the need. Even my wife can start my 290 saw, FS45 trimmer and MM55 mini-tiller without that feature.)
rback33
Hangin in Tornado Alley
I am with you there on chains. I bought several extra chains for my saw at the time of purchase and was clear I did NOT want the anti-kick safety chains. There is a stark difference in the way the two types of chains cut.
The dealers in Sioux Falls will about play dumb if you give them numbers for real chain until you about twist their arm; that's another reason I prefer Watertown's dealer [in fact after dealing with that once, I just bought three for each saw {he always has 3rd chain free} on top of the two I haggled with the saw purchase]. There is a difference in bars too, but AFAIK that only affects the ability to plunge cut, not the performance while bucking a log. (I have a narrow bar on my old craftsman which is handy sometimes, else I do like being able to plunge with the Stihl).
Like a sharp knife, I think reduced fatique is best in the long run; however, especially with yellow chain or bar he must learn to always know where the tip of that bar is - if it gets to grab something while the throttle is open: that saw is going to be doing a 180 faster than he can blink. Same can happen on either side too, put getting the saw yanked out of your hand or even the handle shoved back in your groin [no, I haven't done that, but can just see it] is less devasting then a chain at full RPM in the skull.
Not positive, but the file guide I mentioned earlier might make safety chain the worst of both worlds as it increases the depth by about .010 over Stihl factory.
Like a sharp knife, I think reduced fatique is best in the long run; however, especially with yellow chain or bar he must learn to always know where the tip of that bar is - if it gets to grab something while the throttle is open: that saw is going to be doing a 180 faster than he can blink. Same can happen on either side too, put getting the saw yanked out of your hand or even the handle shoved back in your groin [no, I haven't done that, but can just see it] is less devasting then a chain at full RPM in the skull.
Not positive, but the file guide I mentioned earlier might make safety chain the worst of both worlds as it increases the depth by about .010 over Stihl factory.
And that is something Stihl has that is miles ahead of Husky - the fuel and oil fill caps. Husky's are set flush which makes it a chore to see when you are filling them. I've decided it's easier to just stop filling when it overflows, rather than add some, look. Add some more, look. Add some more...
Stihl's caps extend above the saw and are large enough to see the level while filling. I give that design many thumbs UP.
I have an old Poulan that is just annoying for that: nearly need a funnel! However, my less old Craftsman [essentially a rebadged Poulan Pro] has about the same dimensions as the Stihls but has threads instead of the half-twist mechanism. I think all the older Stihls and maybe several in the line-up yet have simple threads. For all I know though, they may have went back to threads or perfected the half twist in the last couple years, I haven't looked much at new ones since.
OT .. but are you saying the anti kick is in the chains? 
I thought it was a feature on the newer saws. I'll have to keep an eye out next time I'm buying a couple of chains for my saw, I don't want the reduced cutting which sounds like a 'feature' of the anti kickback. 
I thought it was a feature on the newer saws. I'll have to keep an eye out next time I'm buying a couple of chains for my saw, I don't want the reduced cutting which sounds like a 'feature' of the anti kickback. OT .. but are you saying the anti kick is in the chains?
It's in the chains. And now, most shops dont want(mandated?) to sell the more aggressive chain except to Pro's. I the excerpt below, it is those gaurd links. Depending on height, there's more/less kickback potential. In doing a quick search, I did see US and Canadian regulation mandating what I call OSHA chains for most consumer saws.
from http://extension.missouri.edu/explore/agguides/agengin/g01959.htm#Kickback
Kickback
One of the major differences between professional and consumer saws that consumer saws must be equipped with low-kickback chain (or safety chain) when they are purchased. These chains are required on all saws that have an engine smaller than 3.8 cubic inches. They are also available for larger saws and are highly recommended. Kickback occurs when the upper tip of the guide bar touches an object or when the wood closes in and pinches the saw chain in the cut (Figure 1). This contact may cause a lightning-fast reverse action of the guide bar back toward the operator. Results of kickback include severe upper body, neck, and facial lacerations or death. Safety chain (and other features) minimize the dangers of kickback but do not eliminate the hazard.
Parts of a cutting chain.
Saw chain
The cutting chain is composed of drive links and cutters (Figure 2). The drive links ride in the groove on the saw bar and engage the sprocket on the motor. The cutters may be one of three styles: chipper, chisel or safety. Safety chain has features designed to reduce saw kickback such as a guard link (Figure 2). When purchasing replacement chain for an existing saw, note that all chain with a blue label meets the low kickback standard and can be used on any saw. Chain with a yellow label is recommended for professional use only. Some yellow-label chain can be used on certain saws less than 3.8 cubic inches. Remember, the larger, professional saws may not have additional safety features that might be desirable.
OT .. but are you saying the anti kick is in the chains?
The chainbrake (activated when the "handle looking thing" infront of the handle is whacked) is part of the saw. The tendency to grab [and thus kick back if the tip grabs] in the first place is in the chain; Stihl claims there is no reduction in performance using safety chain but in the real world adding fancy features to the drive link is just one more thing to impede ideal tooth engagement and chip ejection etc. I like the way PBinWA put it: for it to work well, it's going to be dangerous!
The bars with a tappered nose [perhaps other features too?] are supposed to be safer, but not as good for plunge cutting.
When I bought new chains for my Husqy I went to my local Stihl Dealer (been in business for a long time) and told him I wanted the most dangerous chain he has. He laughed and got me set up.
My saw cut so much better after that it was amazing. Told my friend to do the same with his Stihl and he couldn't believe the difference. I refuse to use safety chains anymore. I live on the edge!
My saw cut so much better after that it was amazing. Told my friend to do the same with his Stihl and he couldn't believe the difference. I refuse to use safety chains anymore. I live on the edge!
I wonder if that statement is for box stores? A dealer should be able to set up the saw however you like without additional charges [at least mine did for both saws: I walked out with yellow on both bars and all 4 chains; neither saw 3.8ci], but I saw Av8tr3400 note he has his safety chain yet.
I wonder if that statement is for box stores? A dealer should be able to set up the saw however you like without additional charges [at least mine did for both saws: I walked out with yellow on both bars and all 4 chains; neither saw 3.8ci], but I saw Av8tr3400 note he has his safety chain yet.
I don't know for sure. I know the local Husky shop pushed me to low kickback chains for my Husky 338xtp. I have not purchased new chain in a while except for that saw.