Fur Coats?

[Melensdad]

We just got back from a shopping trip to Chicago and one of the things the lovely Mrs_B got on this trip was a new casual fur coat. While in the fur vault at the store I noticed a series of brochures that can best be described as 'pro-fur' propaganda.

Obviously my wife is not one of the PETA 'anti-fur' sympathizers The only thing that upset my daughter was that I told her that she was not getting a coat too.

But I thumbed through the little propaganda brochures and there were several points about how most of the wild harvest animals are harvested for both food and fur. They also made a big point about the fact that many of the wild harvest furs are collected in humane traps (they did not define humane) and are collected by native indians, eskimos, etc.

There were also brochures on fur ranches, etc.

I can recall a trip into Chicago about a half dozen years ago when members of PETA or ALF were arrested for spilling paint on a few women who wore fur coats. I saw a lot of fur coats being worn by women, but then again it was about 18 degrees (F) and very windy, so fur coats are excellent for maintaining warmth in that type of weather.

Any of you ladies have thoughts about the 'evils' of Fur Coats? Any of you guys care to weigh in on this issue?

 

[Snowcat Operations]

I think Fur coats are excellent but not needed anymore with todays modern materials and insulation materials. BUT I also like the fact they use every part of the animal or as much as possible. Thats just in my opinion good sense.

 

[Snowcat Operations]

My mom took her Mink fur coat and had it turned into Teddy Bears for all the Grandchildren. The eyes are 3 or 4 carat diamonds. They are the softest Teddy bears ever! I have no idea how much its worth. We keep it in the safe.

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

Farming is farming. I had a friend growing up that was a mink farmer. No different than anything else.

PETA people are deranged from the lack of hemi-iron in their system.

 

[BoneheadNW]

Personally, the only animal skin coat that I would (and have) buy is leather. I don't care for the other animal skin coats.
Bone

 

[fogtender]

PETA

Any of you ladies have thoughts about the 'evils' of Fur Coats? Any of you guys care to weigh in on this issue?

PETA... isnt doesn't that stand for People Eating Tasty Animals.....???

 

[Melensdad]

PETA... isnt doesn't that stand for People Eating Tasty Animals.....???

And I'm sure that definition makes the members of PETA a little more crazy!

Personally, the only animal skin coat they I would (and have) buy is leather.

Interesting point. I have a few leather coats and never considered them to be similar to a fur coat. In fact, leather is really not much different than a fur coat that has been shaved. I wonder why "fur" gets such a bad rap from so many people but we rarely hear complaints about "leather" coats/shoes/belts/wallets/purses/etc.

 

[DaveNay]

In fact, leather is really not much different than a fur coat that has been shaved. I wonder why "fur" gets such a bad rap from so many people but we rarely hear complaints about "leather" coats/shoes/belts/wallets/purses/etc.

<Tommy Chong voice>

We all need to switch to wearing hemp clothing man!

</Tommy Chong Voice>

 

[DaveNay]

I wonder why "fur" gets such a bad rap from so many people but we rarely hear complaints about "leather" coats/shoes/belts/wallets/purses/etc.

The same reason those people will protest and destroy personal property, and then go to TGI Fridays for a burger.

They are hypocrites!

 

[fogtender]

I wonder why "fur" gets such a bad rap from so many people but we rarely hear complaints about "leather" coats/shoes/belts/wallets/purses/etc.

Because it isn't as "Touchy/Feely" as a fur coat, and fur denotes "Cute"...

Besides, can you imagine some radical anti-fur/leather person going up to a "Hells Angel" and dumping red dye on his "Leather Colors"! It would pretty much end their "Anti" anything protest from there on... Much less, ability to attend any more "Anti-fur/leather" rallies in anything less than a wheelchair. So I figure that is why they don't do leather...

 

[Deadly Sushi]

My mom took her Mink fur coat and had it turned into Teddy Bears for all the Grandchildren. The eyes are 3 or 4 carat diamonds. They are the softest Teddy bears ever! I have no idea how much its worth. We keep it in the safe.

A real fur teddy bear....... with FOUR CARROT diamonds for EYES!?!?!?!?!?
Holy crap man! That little guy has to be worth $25K!!!!! I could pay 2.5 years of rent with that animal. I could invest!
Hey.... ahhhhhhhh..... Im up for adoption... so..... Im just putting it out there.

 

[BoneheadNW]

And I'm sure that definition makes the members of PETA a little more crazy!



Interesting point. I have a few leather coats and never considered them to be similar to a fur coat. In fact, leather is really not much different than a fur coat that has been shaved. I wonder why "fur" gets such a bad rap from so many people but we rarely hear complaints about "leather" coats/shoes/belts/wallets/purses/etc.

A hypocrite is a hypocrite, whether they are ultra right wing or radical left. Kind of like a$$holes in that way.
Bone

 

[dzalphakilo]

Personally when I see a lady wearing a fur coat, I just think of a rich bitch.

 

[pirate_girl]

I wouldn't dare wear a fur coat.
It's vanity and cruelty combined into one package.
That's just me though.

 

[Melensdad]

I wouldn't dare wear a fur coat.
It's vanity and cruelty combined into one package.
That's just me though.

I don't understand the "cruelty" comment? Is it more cruel than eating a steak? Or more cruel than having some sausage on a pizza? Or more cruel than leather shoes? Belts? Handbags? Or shearling coats, are those also cruel?

I do know that some women wear coats as status symbols. I know that some wear them for warmth. Interestingly many people don't consider "shearling" coats to be the same as "fur" coats but really a shearling coat is just a fur coat that is turned inside out with the fur inside. I wonder why "shearling" is not frowned upon like "fur"? And, as previously mentioned, why "leather" is acceptable when "fur" is not accepted by some?

Many of the people in the department of Natural Resources suggest that without trapping we'd have major rabies outbreaks in many species and I know that I've read of several accounts where trapping has been eliminated and rabies outbreaks have occurred. Is it cruel to allow over population, disease and starvation of species en masse versus trapping and controlling? We have to remember that most of us live in states/areas where man has removed the natural predators like coyotes and wolves that would have naturally kept these species controlled, which would have naturally kept disease and starvation from occurring in these species.


I ran across this website today:

Wisconsin Cooperative Trapper Education Program (WCTEP)


Photo from one of the University Fur Ecology Schools. John Irwin, trapper education instructor and University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point Students.

The future of furbearer trapping in Wisconsin is secured through an educated public that understands the need for and value in wildlife management. This is accomplished through trained trappers familiar with modern and humane methods of animal restraint, as well as the proper handling of furbearers. The mandatory WCTEP program brings experienced and skilled trappers, trained and apprenticed in the trapper education program, into the classroom where they can share their knowledge and understanding with those interested.

Trapping of our state’s furbearers is a source of recreation and income for several thousand established trappers, as well as the hundreds of new trappers coming through our program each year. It is carefully regulated to protect sensitive species from over harvest such as with bobcat, fisher and otter. However, it can also be used as a control measure to reduce certain populations, such as muskrat, beaver and raccoon, which can cause property damage and facilitate the spread of disease. The future of trapping in Wisconsin depends on proper management and ethical trapping – a task that requires the cooperation of all trappers, landowners and resource managers.

Wisconsin's Cooperative Trapper Education Program is administered jointly by the Wisconsin Trappers Association (WTA) (Exit DNR) and the DNR. The WTA is affiliated with the National Trappers Association (NTA) (Exit DNR).​

 

[dzalphakilo]

Bob, people who utilize the animal in their enviroment and comparing them to what you bought your wife is sort of comparing apples to oranges.

Let's face it, you're just trying to justify what you bought.

Bottom line, who cares?

 

[Tractors4u]

I don't understand the "cruelty" comment? Is it more cruel than eating a steak? Or more cruel than having some sausage on a pizza? Or more cruel than leather shoes? Belts? Handbags? Or shearling coats, are those also cruel?

I don't get it either. There is no difference between leather and fur. Fur and sausage, etc. It's legal in the U.S. and we have the freedom to choose to buy or not to buy.

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

I don't get it either. There is no difference between leather and fur. Fur and sausage, etc. It's legal in the U.S. and we have the freedom to choose to buy or not to buy.

Wait a second! There's a big difference between fur and sausage! Oh wait . . . this isn't the MLR is it?

 

[Tractors4u]

Wait a second! There's a big difference between fur and sausage! Oh wait . . . this isn't the MLR is it?

Now that is funny right there, I don't care who you are.

 

[Melensdad]

Bob, people who utilize the animal in their enviroment and comparing them to what you bought your wife is sort of comparing apples to oranges.

Let's face it, you're just trying to justify what you bought.

First, I don't have to justify anything. Second, you don't know what I bought for my wife other than the coat was made from animals, nor do you know how she is going to utilize it. Why is it more noble for someone to kill, skin and sew a coat but less noble to buy it already made? Both coats are going to be used for warmth in cold weather.

I don't get it either. There is no difference between leather and fur. Fur and sausage, etc. It's legal in the U.S. and we have the freedom to choose to buy or not to buy.

Exactly my point.

And when I was looking at the little trapping and fur brochures it really hit me that there is a lot more to the fur trade than most people ever consider. Especially the points about it being cruel. I was friends with a trapper (he died a few years back) who cared more about the environment and animals than anyone I've ever met. It seems like much of the information I hear against deer hunting is very similar to what I hear in opposition to fur coats . . . you don't need to hunt deer to eat. . . you don't need to hunt little animals to keep warm. . . etc etc etc

But when you consider that we've (society) already killed off the natural predators that control these animals (deer, raccoons, muskrats, fox, etc) so we need to control them somehow. Further, we could switch to all wool fibers, but there are all sorts of people who actually protest sheep farming Which then leaves us with fibers like cotton, which are not practical for winter warmth. Or with nylon, rayon & polyester which all come from oil and would increase our dependence upon foreign oil.

Plus, we'd see a lot of people who depend on trapping lose their livelyhoods and that would cost society something. Is not taking someone's living away also cruel?

So there is economic damage, and their is damage to the ecosystem which will become unbalanced, but still people seem to feel that there is something 'more wrong' with fur that doesn't apply to leather, shearling, rib-eye steaks or hot dogs.

Sorry, but I don't get it?

 

[dzalphakilo]

First, I don't have to justify anything. Second, you don't know what I bought for my wife other than the coat was made from animals, nor do you know how she is going to utilize it. Why is it more noble for someone to kill, skin and sew a coat but less noble to buy it already made? Both coats are going to be used for warmth in cold weather.

Bob, I don't really care what your wife uses a fur coat for (I would assume to wear in when it's cold out, but I guess only you and the misses would know what you're really going to do with it).

However, by asking the question on "furs" in general on this thread, and pointing out that you bought your wife one, yes, it does seem like your trying to justify it (also the fact that you presented more points to pirate girl).

As mentioned, I don't care.

The reason it's less noble to buy one is because you don't have to do the work yourself. As SO mentioned, there are plenty of materials out there that would be just as warm, but bottom line, it's not a fur coat. Sort of on the vain (sp?) side as well IMO. But opinions are like assholes, I realize that.

 

[fogtender]

As SO mentioned, there are plenty of materials out there that would be just as warm, but bottom line, it's not a fur coat. Sort of on the vain (sp?) side as well IMO. But opinions are like assholes, I realize that.

It totally amazes me that city folks have no clue to what it is like in the real world, outside the Condo Assn.

In Stark contrast to what PETA (the other PETA with the fuzzy animals guys) they watch a episode of "Grizzly Adams" and figure that all the animals in the wild do group hugs....

No animal in the real world dies a "peaceful" death, with the exception of a few cases, they are torn apart by a preditor of some sort, man is the most humane by far in taking prey in most cases.

Doesn't matter if it is a field mouse getting speared by an owl's talons or a moose being torn apart alive by a pack of wolves, or a whale having it's calf beat to death by Killer Whales so they can dine on it.... Nobody makes it out alive!

The only animals that die a peaceful death is our house pets, we have taken the wild out of them and they can't fend for themselves in most cases, and would die if you tossed them out the door into the wild.

Having a fur in our past history ment that a person would be warm and survive the cold. It also ment that the person that supplied it was a great hunter, which was quite a feat, concidering it was mostly taken by a spear, rock or arrow. As time progressed, we still use the animals as was ordained by God, The Grand Wizzard, Alla or natural selection, which ever makes one feel better, they are all fully interchangible to suit one's "correct" belief.

Regardless, we are part of the food chain and the animals that we kill for that end should be used for whatever is needed, and not using the fur is waste, but even that will degrade and return to the Earth as part of the natural cycle.

So I guess as the "Far Left" see it, if a wolf is killing your dog, and you shoot it, it is better to throw the pelt in the trash than to wear it as a coat to honor the wolf's life?

That is the same with a cow, chicken, pig, and sheep you use everything that you take which is the way it should be.

The only person that I would say has a honest Issue with wearing fur, is one that is 100% vegitarian, uses no animal parts what so ever... which is still almost impossible even in this modern world... so that makes even most of them a hipocrite, which is far worse than someone who honors and uses life and what it gives us.

Wearing fur is not only good looking, it is extremely practical. Fall into a frozen lake or river and try not to die wearing the "New Modern Fabrics", and you will more often as not, die unless you can reach shelter.

I get such a kick out watching these clowns come to Alaska with all their hi tech camping gear, and as soon as it gets damp, they are freezing.

I have a seal skin hat that I can't wear unless it below zero, it is too warm... nothing modern in it, except maybe the head under it....

All preditors have the eyes facing forward, prey has their eyes on the side in an attempt to keep from being prey.... Guess where God, The Grand Wizzard, Alla or ____________(insert your version) eyes are at, and they isn't for grazing in the yard....irate:

 

[Melensdad]

The reason it's less noble to buy one is because you don't have to do the work yourself.

So using that form of justification, the only people who can eat corn are the people who farm it? The only people who can eat beef without guilt are cattle ranchers? The only people who can use gas are the drivers who haul it in tanker trucks? Sorry but in a society that is built on specialty work there is no such thing as you suggest. We are all co-dependent upon each other. The eskimo who kills/skins/makes his own coat is dependent upon Remington for the high powered rifle, Bombardier for the snowmobile, Exxon for the gas & oil to power the snowmobile, Buck for the knife used for skinning, etc. I don't make my own clothes so apparently I am not as entitled to fabric as the worker who weaves it, but that worker in the fabric mill is not entitled to the corn and soybeans that grow in my back yard???

 

[pirate_girl]

I don't eat meat, I wouldn't wear fur.
I am 90% vegetarian/vegan because I adopted that diet in order to improve my health.
It worked
I won't wear fur because I love all things fuzzy and wonderful and couldn't stand the fact that I'd used them in any way for my own comfort.
Hunters can hunt for the sport.
People can enjoy a nice fat juicy steak.
It's a personal choice.
I'll just eat my tofu and Lasagna Florentine, thanks.

 

[Bobcat]

Mmmmmm, lasagna. Yum-O!

 

[pirate_girl]

Mmmmmm, lasagna. Yum-O!

.. but, I will eat a piece of turkey tomorrow just to appease my mother.

I always do during a holiday gathering.

 

[fogtender]

I don't eat meat, I wouldn't wear fur.
I am 90% vegetarian/vegan because I adopted that diet in order to improve my health.
It worked
I won't wear fur because I love all things fuzzy and wonderful and couldn't stand the fact that I'd used them in any way for my own comfort.
Hunters can hunt for the sport.
People can enjoy a nice fat juicy steak.
It's a personal choice.
I'll just eat my tofu and Lasagna Florentine, thanks.

That is a choice you make and a good one for you!

There is no way I would critize all the wild tofu that was harvested screaming from being "hacked" as a baby soy bean in the prime from, the green stock of life.... and then dragged all the way to the lunch counter for people like you to Munch on... nor would I tell you about all the cows that are now starving because they have nothing to eat, because you ate their life giving soy bean..... and some soybeans have replaced the cows life giving milk, further reducing their life span....

Nope not me....

 

[pirate_girl]

That is a choice you make and a good one for you!

There is no way I would critize all the wild tofu that was harvested screaming from being "hacked" as a baby soy bean in the prime from, the green stock of life.... and then dragged all the way to the lunch counter for people like you to Munch on... nor would I tell you about all the cows that are now starving because they have nothing to eat, because you ate their life giving soy bean..... and some soybeans have replaced the cows life giving milk, further reducing their life span....

Nope not me....

*tossing FT a carrot stick*

 

[pirate_girl]

Do you know how much grain it takes to feed one cow for one year before slaughter, as opposed to how much it takes to make one loaf of bread?
Much of that grain could well be sent to third world countries to feed the starving, instead of fattening the already fatassed, diseased population we have walking around among us.
I'd rather eat a sandwich made with whole wheat bread, a thick slice of tomato,onion, pickles, swiss cheese and mustard- than a Quarter Pounder any day.
I have a mental clarity and more energy now at 47 than I did when I was 37.
That is why I won't eat or use anything animal..except for cuddling my doggie .. she's good for my health and state of mind
Besides, pork and beef made me feel like my gut was going to explode.
I cannot digest most meat properly, hence- the radical diet change years ago.

 

[fogtender]

I have a mental clarity and more energy now at 47 than I did when I was 37.

Oh that, it is called Wisdom.... you have more of that now, so things "Seem" to have a bit more clarity now....

The term "Old age and wisdom (can be replaced with "treachery") will overcome Youth and enthusiasm any time!"