Unions?

[Dargo]

Well you are entitled to your opinion even if you don't have it right about the union I belonged too. Which by the way I've not been a member of since 1980 when I left the area of working for others and forged out on my own as a private contractor in several fields. Besides unions are pretty much dead in this country today and one of the reasons I left them. The are only about 7% of the working population and it has lead to lower wages for most people that work in today's work force as skilled labor. It also means no jobs for simply having a high school diploma.

My biggest issue is the thought that union members have no reason to complain about being on strike. Obviously, you can tell I'm NOT slamming union workers; and not just because my dad spent his life as a union member. You and I both know that some of the best workers in the country belong to a union. It's the union 'thug' politics left over from the old Chicago days that have killed them. Unions are dead and just don't know it yet. None of my employees would consider a union and you couldn't run them off with a big stick. However, to say a union worker can't complain about having to be on strike is just wrong. Just as wrong as the union bosses sending thugs to deliver a message to a union worker who crossed the picket line to feed his family. Unions protecting the jobs of slackers is also pathetic. IMHO, that is why GM started building shit cars in the mid 70's.

 

[SShepherd]

there's a point at which the union becomes more about itself than it does about the workers it's supposed to represent.

 

[FrancSevin]

Dead Unions?

My ass. Dead unions just shut down thePort of Los Angelos to protect $165,000 a year clerjk jobs because the companies wanted the right to "modify" those jobs as each woker reached retirement.

These are paper pusher jobs, not stevadores and dock hands!

For this little detail, they stopped $1 billion a day in products moving through the ports. 44% of the imports comingg into the USA. Products destined for Stores all over America. Seems they pull this crap around Christmas damm near every year.

Which is akin to blackmail and is how they got those poor slaves a measely $165K per annum.

And that is private sector.

Now we have unions growing stronger in the public sector.

 

[joec]

there's a point at which the union becomes more about itself than it does about the workers it's supposed to represent.

Agree Shep and I belonged to a construction union that is almost non existent today. I wonder about some of the other "Unions" out there today from the teachers to office worker type but know little about them. As I clearly said I left unions in 1980 and have never looked back. I know I made a decent living and made a fair wage for a fair days work.

 

[Big Dog]

For 20 years I worked as a union member and was an elected official. Worked on the opposite side for 12 years. After all that time and experience with the union I've come to one general opinion, they suck!

 

[Big Dog]

Well who the hell didn't see this coming? I'm sure they won because the firings were perpetuated by an outside entity or the union wasn't informed that a process of hidden cameras was active.

I worked for a company that installed camera's at the well known sleeping spots. Burnt a bunch of employees, both union and management. All won suspensions WO pay. Union grieved and won monetary damage based on the union wasn't informed of the scheme prior .............. arbitrators are so bought by the unions and usually ex-union members or union sympathizers.

Chrysler workers canned for drinking on the job reinstated

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...job-reinstated/?test=latestnews#ixzz2EVvitnlG
​

 

[Dargo]

Well who the hell didn't see this coming? I'm sure they won because the firings were perpetuated by an outside entity or the union wasn't informed that a process of hidden cameras was active.

I worked for a company that installed camera's at the well known sleeping spots. Burnt a bunch of employees, both union and management. All won suspensions WO pay. Union grieved and won monetary damage based on the union wasn't informed of the scheme prior .............. arbitrators are so bought by the unions and usually ex-union members or union sympathizers.

Chrysler workers canned for drinking on the job reinstated

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...job-reinstated/?test=latestnews#ixzz2EVvitnlG
​

And that really helps the Chrysler end product. It was a HUGE mistake to give tens of billions of taxpayer money away to the auto manufacturers. Only a fool would think that some other name manufacturer wouldn't arise from the ashes with non-union plants and would already be common vehicles tooling around on the roads of our country and the vehicles would be of much higher build quality because the workers assembling them would be paid and promoted on merit, NOT simply how long they'd been there.

 

[JEV]

Well you are entitled to your opinion even if you don't have it right about the union I belonged too. Which by the way I've not been a member of since 1980 when I left the area of working for others and forged out on my own as a private contractor in several fields. Besides unions are pretty much dead in this country today and one of the reasons I left them. The are only about 7% of the working population and it has lead to lower wages for most people that work in today's work force as skilled labor. It also means no jobs for simply having a high school diploma.

I know you're smarter than this statement. Who are you trying to bullshit with blaming declining wages on declining union membership? Some days I think you and mak2 collaborate to make statement founded in fantasy just to keep us on our toes. Only a rabid union member would agree with your assumption.

 

[joec]

I know you're smarter than this statement. Who are you trying to bullshit with blaming declining wages on declining union membership? Some days I think you and mak2 collaborate to make statement founded in fantasy just to keep us on our toes. Only a rabid union member would agree with your assumption.

Joe you are free to believe what you want however much higher wages was paid when Unions where strong in this country compared today. Now you can buy the anti union line however it really doesn't hold water at the time I was a member of one.

 

[Dargo]

Joe you are free to believe what you want however much higher wages was paid when Unions where strong in this country compared today. Now you can buy the anti union line however it really doesn't hold water at the time I was a member of one.

That kind of goes hand in hand with the fact that, when I was in high school, there were 20k union mine workers in Indiana. Now there are zero. However, there are more miners working in the state than ever and more coal is being produced than ever. As I said before as well, when a mine says they are going to hire 20 people, there generally will be a thousand people apply for those jobs. Union coal mines here are GONE. If non-union mines didn't pay well with decent benefits, why would so many show up and apply for any openings??

 

[FrancSevin]

The classic move of the big unions is to beat the goldengoose untill it is dead.

GM and Twinkies had a common problem. Multiple unions, any one of which could be a butt head and strike,,,or shut the place down.

Leaving those other workers without a paycheck.

If it wasn't for Federal protection from the RICO act, and Federal codling ( or whoring if you prefer) of the union bosses for votes, they wouldn't exist today.

Unless Unions determine to provide a palatable product for a work force, they will not gain a foot hold in any new areas but public employees. Since they continue to kill off the old industries where they mattered, it is a simple mathematical attrition to non existance.

Except for teachers and public employees.

My big question for the future, can US citizens go on strike against their government? Think about it?

 

[joec]

That kind of goes hand in hand with the fact that, when I was in high school, there were 20k union mine workers in Indiana. Now there are zero. However, there are more miners working in the state than ever and more coal is being produced than ever. As I said before as well, when a mine says they are going to hire 20 people, there generally will be a thousand people apply for those jobs. Union coal mines here are GONE. If non-union mines didn't pay well with decent benefits, why would so many show up and apply for any openings??

Perhaps, or perhaps not Dargo look at how many are working for some of the largest business in this country such as McDonalds and Walmart neither of which are what most would call more than minimum wage jobs.

 

[ki0ho]

Maby Frank has a good Idea.....just have a general popalation strike......every one cut back to working just enough hours to get by.....put no more than the bare min of mony in the bank ect. and use a cash only system when we can.........the gov will be going crazzy trying to find the HNIC to serve papers on...........get the income down below welfare levels one problem I see....it would bring the 47& up into a taxing status!!!!! or put 99& below taxing status......wonder how the Oslimmy voters would want to work that out?????????

 

[Dargo]

Perhaps, or perhaps not Dargo look at how many are working for some of the largest business in this country such as McDonalds and Walmart neither of which are what most would call more than minimum wage jobs.

So you honestly think that people would pay $20 for a Big Mac if McDonalds employees had a union??? Not a chance. Just like just about everything else that's not propped up by the government, unions have only been leaches that have killed their hosts.

 

[Dargo]

My big question for the future, can US citizens go on strike against their government? Think about it?

Several states are looking into leaving the union; our government. Liberals and Obummer have really destroyed the very foundation upon which our country was established. We were never a welfare state; now that's pretty well what we are. Just look to Europe and see how that's working out for them. I'm all for giving a helping hand up, but sharply disagree with never ending handouts. It's really sad that we have millions in this country who are 2nd and 3rd generation welfare families whose only "job" is taking from the government. As long as that 'pays' better than working, they will NEVER work for a living and gladly let others work to pay for their every need.

 

[muleman]

Because we want to.........I think I read not to long ago right here on this forum ...that was one of the main reasons Doc set this forum up......because folks were getting tired of being beat over the head for not staying on perfect point!!!!!! as for me...if I dont like the subject of a thread I go else where...or start my own thread about what ever Or if all else fails I go find Mule to pick on......Just watch thosr hind hooves!!!

Better watch out! If it is a day when my toe ain't hurting I can kick pretty hard!

 

[joec]

So you honestly think that people would pay $20 for a Big Mac if McDonalds employees had a union??? Not a chance. Just like just about everything else that's not propped up by the government, unions have only been leaches that have killed their hosts.

They might pay a bit better than 7.13 to 8.93 for a fast food worker. I don't expect people with jobs to make $20 per hour but a bit more than minimum wage regardless of the job.

 

[JEV]

Joe you are free to believe what you want however much higher wages was paid when Unions where strong in this country compared today. Now you can buy the anti union line however it really doesn't hold water at the time I was a member of one.

Wages, and jobs, were also higher before Obama took office in 2009. To coin mak2's favorite expression, "just sayin..."

 

[joec]

Wages, and jobs, were also higher before Obama took office in 2009. To coin mak2's favorite expression, "just sayin..."

Really Joe, please prove that as about the last year or so before he took office jobs seemed to be vanishing.

 

[ki0ho]

Better watch out! If it is a day when my toe ain't hurting I can kick pretty hard!

I had a feelen ya could.....and would!!!!!!


and as to JEVs post + 1 here as it turns out O-slimmy has been one of the best gun sailsmen on the planet!!!!!! and just may be the very reason that unions are run clear out of town!!!!! I hear there is a opening for a union organiser in south china........right where the north korians can talk to him as they enter china to go to work at the new caddy plant.........70& of whitch isalready there!!!!!........think BMW will be my go to brand in the future......Just sayen........

 

[REDDOGTWO]

They might pay a bit better than 7.13 to 8.93 for a fast food worker. I don't expect people with jobs to make $20 per hour but a bit more than minimum wage regardless of the job.

Minimum wage is what it is. A lot of kids with no experience should not even paid that.

Went to Wally World last night and 3 out of 4 people stocking shelves looked like they were out in the sun to long and had funny names in comparison to the standard North Dakota names. Do not know where they were from but the names sounded African to me as if I would know. Fargo has a large Somolian population. Either way with our best in the country unemployment rate things are a changing and not for the best in my opinion.

McDonalds on main had on that they were hiring with a starting wage of $10 per hour. Went into one a couple of months ago and ordered a McChicken without the FEATHERS and the ditzy young person on the other side of the counter spent a minute looking for it on the screen. This is was I meant by some of them not being worth minimum wage.

 

[Dargo]

They might pay a bit better than 7.13 to 8.93 for a fast food worker. I don't expect people with jobs to make $20 per hour but a bit more than minimum wage regardless of the job.

Well, then you have a problem of putting McDonalds stores out of business. I'm certainly not going to pay $20 for lunch at McDonalds. Their entire business model is built on a consistent product and price. Unions would ONLY raise the prices at McDonalds and not the price and certainly not the service. You would go under in short order and just be another casualty of unions.

I have a HS friend who is in charge of McDonalds stores in several states. Unions have tried to get in but have only been laughed out since all they could provide workers is the loss of their jobs. That is something our rather unintelligent president cannot fathom. Our president is a pox on us for affirmative action. Giving college positions, inflated grades, unearned passing grades and free rides did no one any favors.

 

[REDDOGTWO]

Giving college positions, inflated grades, unearned passing grades and free rides did no one any favors.

Speaking of grades I have privy to a certain high school students grades who is doing poorly in school. Since when is a 61 a D or a passing grade? When I went to school a 76 was a skin of the teeth pass.

 

[joec]

Well, then you have a problem of putting McDonalds stores out of business. I'm certainly not going to pay $20 for lunch at McDonalds. Their entire business model is built on a consistent product and price. Unions would ONLY raise the prices at McDonalds and not the price and certainly not the service. You would go under in short order and just be another casualty of unions.

I have a HS friend who is in charge of McDonalds stores in several states. Unions have tried to get in but have only been laughed out since all they could provide workers is the loss of their jobs. That is something our rather unintelligent president cannot fathom. Our president is a pox on us for affirmative action. Giving college positions, inflated grades, unearned passing grades and free rides did no one any favors.

Not a problem for me Dargo since I wouldn't eat in one if they gave their food away for free. Hell man I've not eaten in a fast food joint since I was in high school. Just not my bag and if they all dried up and blew away tomorrow I wouldn't miss them at all.

Please show some facts that collage student get inflated grades for once back up some of the shit you type.

 

[luvs]

i'm a Chef & got fast food often as i was being taught. learning means expenses. expense dictates lowering ones' self. say 'hi' to burgers. u luv fountain pop..... u would soon.

 

[RedRocker]

Minimum wage is for entry level jobs, the free market should set that, but as usual the feds have to step in and screw it up. I heard some dumbass on the radio the other day railing on that minimum wage should be 15 bucks an hour, like that would make everybody just peachy. Peoples ignorance of economics equals their ignorance of just about anything to do with government. My first job was .75 cents an hour in 1963 pumping gas, I got a raise to $1.00 after I learned a few things. I now know how to run a machine shop, I make considerably more than minimum wage without and in spite of government interference. That's how it works, you don't know anything, you don't make shit for money, prove yourself and you'll move up. Why is that hard to understand, we don't need the damn feds setting price controls, that's what got us in the health insurance mess we're in today.

 

[Dargo]

Please show some facts that collage student get inflated grades for once back up some of the shit you type.

Since you apparently did not attend a small highly rated college where I got to see it first hand, it will just have to be shit that is over your head. When someone copies my answers and I get a "B" and they get an "A" with MY answers you wouldn't understand. When I complained and was told to only worry about my grades and not to be concerned if someone is copying my answers that 'it would be looked into' but never was, the whole affirmative action and 'diversity' programs became much more clear to me. But, again, that is shit you are unable to comprehend. If you think it doesn't happen on a massive scale, you clearly have brown eyes.

 

[joec]

Minimum wage is for entry level jobs, the free market should set that, but as usual the feds have to step in and screw it up. I heard some dumbass on the radio the other day railing on that minimum wage should be 15 bucks an hour, like that would make everybody just peachy. Peoples ignorance of economics equals their ignorance of just about anything to do with government. My first job was .75 cents an hour in 1963 pumping gas, I got a raise to $1.00 after I learned a few things. I now know how to run a machine shop, I make considerably more than minimum wage without and in spite of government interference. That's how it works, you don't know anything, you don't make shit for money, prove yourself and you'll move up. Why is that hard to understand, we don't need the damn feds setting price controls, that's what got us in the health insurance mess we're in today.

When did the Feds set price controls since they removed them for the airline industry? Or Richard Nixon on wages during his period of inflation when he thought wages was the cause of them though wages hadn't gone up a dime for his term in most cases. Minimum wage is only in regards to interstate commerce and has nothing to do with most jobs. It for the majority of workers pretty well set by the market. Oh and you made more than I did when I started working however I could buy something then with .50 per hour and later a $1.00. I actually got married making a $1.08 per hour as a sheet metal apprentice and bought my first home and eventually supported a wife and and 4 kids pretty well on $3 which is what I made 3 years later.

 

[RedRocker]

This is what I was referencing.

Employer-sponsored health insurance plans dramatically expanded as a direct result of wage controls imposed by the federal government during World War II.[17] The labor market was tight because of the increased demand for goods and decreased supply of workers during the war. Federally imposed wage and price controls prohibited manufacturers and other employers from raising wages enough to attract workers. When the War Labor Board declared that fringe benefits, such as sick leave and health insurance, did not count as wages for the purpose of wage controls, employers responded with significantly increased offers of fringe benefits, especially health care coverage, to attract workers.[17]

 

[joec]

This is what I was referencing.

Employer-sponsored health insurance plans dramatically expanded as a direct result of wage controls imposed by the federal government during World War II.[17] The labor market was tight because of the increased demand for goods and decreased supply of workers during the war. Federally imposed wage and price controls prohibited manufacturers and other employers from raising wages enough to attract workers. When the War Labor Board declared that fringe benefits, such as sick leave and health insurance, did not count as wages for the purpose of wage controls, employers responded with significantly increased offers of fringe benefits, especially health care coverage, to attract workers.[17]

Actually Red, Nixon with one of his funders (insurance company) came up with the idea of HMO's so he mandated it which was then followed by the congress making it law. Hence you have employers picking up some if not most of health insurance today. Hardly a fringe benefit for either employer or employe regardless. Wage controls vanished pretty quickly after WWII when the GI Bill put many of the returning veterans back in school and started probably the greatest boom in our history for the middle class and business alike. Oh and taxes remained in the 90% bracket for the top income earners with the lowest rates well above what the top earners pay today.