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The EV thread
- Thread starter mbsieg
- Start date
My observations, and I'm rural, but not so rural as to be totally isolated, the chargers I see tend to be in groups of 2 or more. I've not seen and entire group that didn't work. But maybe 1 charger out of 2 might be off line. That said, I have serious 'range anxiety' when it comes to EV's and while I find them, IN THEORY, somewhat attractive, it does seem that urban areas are a lot more friendly of an environment for EV cars. I see chargers along interstates and tollways. I see gas stations along state highways and rural byways. I frequent state highways and rural byways, so I am probably missing a lot of public charging stations.
My gripe is charging time. Still can't get past that. For a local driving car I'm sure I could easily get a Hyundai Ionic 5 and that would serve my needs 95% of the time if I had a home charger. But I'm not going EV yet, largely because I fear my gubmint and its fervent desire to control me and my driving habits.
Please elaborate on the regeneration.
You'll have to tell me what town and I will investigate it further. I'm guessing there is a plug-in or something there that is available.
Actually you would do just fine. The regeneration shines as you're slowing down to stop for a stop sign. Or even going down a slight incline with the cruise on. It's pretty crazy. The amount of regeneration that you get out of an EV. I've taken the lightning to Eastern South Dakota numerous times. Just on i-90 you get a lot of regeneration. The chamberlain hill going down to the Missouri River I gained if I remember correctly 20 Some odd miles.Doc, you and I both live in relative flatlands, we don't have enough downhill slopes to effectively utilize the regeneration capabilities
If you'd like to see what the charger is, go to www.plugshare.com
That is currently a huge issue. You are correct. Luckily you can go and check the status online before you depend on it. And adjust your trip accordingly
I'll add that the Tesla charging network is far superior. When Tesla opens up the network to the other EVs it will make it a lot more reliable and easier
You do not have to investigate for me. I drive by there every time I go to the store. I have lived there for over twenty years. I know the owner of the gas stations in the town.
Doc regeneration happens when you are going down a hill and need to slow down. Slowing down for stop signs. Basically anytime the vehicle would coast or you would apply brakes. It is generating electricity. And charging the battery. Long downhill stretches can add large amounts of miles. It's not uncommon for me to add 40 mi to my truck coming down off the big horn mountains. The heavier the load behind you, the more miles you add.
A funny that I saw the other day, picture of a lightning going downhill. With the caption EVs give you gas....
Just thought of another example. A coal mine not too far from where I live, uses large electric haul trucks. The coal seam that they are currently utilizing is elevation higher than the power plants. These large haul trucks use less energy going up the hill, Then they produce loaded, going down the hill. And they actually sell that power to the grid. It's called a gravity battery.
Do you happen to be an electric car salesman?
Lol no far from it. I've done a lot of things in my life, but a salesman is not one of them.
You sure do a good imitation of one.
Just don't like to see misinformation.
Are you calling me a liar? I posted that the map showed a charging station in a town near me. I checked and posted there was no charging station there. For some reason you think you know more about the town I live in that I do. Tell me what town I live in. If you are so sure about whether there is one or not.
chowderman
Well-known member
it's not misinformation - it's just cherry picking actual factual stuff and pretending it applies to everything.
so . . . "regen braking adds to the range"
almost. what is being ignored is that climbing the hill ate a lot of your range - the regen braking gets some/most of that range 'back'
the total range remains essentially unchanged.
if the car has a 200 mile range and everywhere you drive to is going up hill, you will not go 200 miles.
if you can arrange it so you only drive downhill everywhere you go, yes - regen braking will add to the range....
on the flat normal driving regen braking picks up single digit percentages of range.
stop and go city type traffic, regen braking does better - 10-15% of range.
so . . . "regen braking adds to the range"
almost. what is being ignored is that climbing the hill ate a lot of your range - the regen braking gets some/most of that range 'back'
the total range remains essentially unchanged.
if the car has a 200 mile range and everywhere you drive to is going up hill, you will not go 200 miles.
if you can arrange it so you only drive downhill everywhere you go, yes - regen braking will add to the range....
on the flat normal driving regen braking picks up single digit percentages of range.
stop and go city type traffic, regen braking does better - 10-15% of range.
chowderman
Well-known member
I've looked a number of 'find a charge' sites.
some of sites show "private" charge stations. like, WTF, over? a company that installed a charger for their company vehicles is not likely to offer you a charge . . . some sites have different colors and symbols . . . and no "legend" block so you know what they are . . .
it's the wild west.
one of the sites posted here shows a charging station "under construction" that's been operational for at least two weeks.
if you can wait two weeks for a charge, it's all good . . .
some of sites show "private" charge stations. like, WTF, over? a company that installed a charger for their company vehicles is not likely to offer you a charge . . . some sites have different colors and symbols . . . and no "legend" block so you know what they are . . .
it's the wild west.
one of the sites posted here shows a charging station "under construction" that's been operational for at least two weeks.
if you can wait two weeks for a charge, it's all good . . .
No, not at all. I'm not even quite sure where you jumped to that conclusion.
If I did offend you I apologize.
I agree with what you're saying. But that applies to everything. Ice engines also. You don't get as good a mileage. Going up the hill as you do down. The benefit to an EV you get to add range going downhill.
I've never had anybody had gasoline to my tank going downhill. Or stopping for a stop sign. ECT
That is fine. Your prerogative. That app shows DC fast chargers, all the way down to 110 volt outlets that people are allowed to use to charge their EV. So yes in your town it may be just an AC outlet that someone put on there that they allowed people to use.
chowderman
Well-known member
you get more mpg going down hill than going up hill.
range for EVs nor ICEs is not specified for "hilly areas" and "flat areas"
extending the range by an meaningful amount is not going to happen except driving a 20 ton mine truck up the hill but driving a 60 ton mine truck down the hill.
I guess real world experience tells me different. Anytime you or anyone else would like to go for a ride, I would gladly give one. If you're ever in northern Wyoming, look me up.
I'd take you up on that, I'd love to see the Ford Lightning in action.
I've driven a Lexus PHEV and a Tesla. Electric vehicles sure perform, the experience is pretty astonishing.
Just trying to figure out what will work for me. I know I could easily have 1 of my vehicles as an EV. And I'm shopping for a new vehicle, but I think the primary vehicle, which is what I am researching to buy, may be the wrong vehicle for me to have as an EV or PHEV. Honestly if there was a mid-priced compact pickup that was an EV, or even a Hybrid, when I was shopping for a pick up, it would be in my garage. The Ford Lightning is too big/too expensive for my needs. The Rivian is about a perfect size for me, but the price is outrageous. Still, my pick up driving is typically under 200 miles round trip, often only about 100. But the truck is used for carrying light but bulky loads (usually athletes and their gear) so I'd easily swap the 2022 Honda Ridgeline for an EV of that same model.
But I'm thinking of replacing our Audi A6. Either a sedan or an SUV would suit me. Price range is $60k. But it needs to make economic sense to me and so far, Hybrids seem to make the best economic model for me. I want something roughly the same overall size as my Audi A6. Same or smaller turning radius. Same or smaller length. Looking for legroom in the backseat. Looking for reasonable luxury but not willing to pay for silly luxury. Ergonomics and comfort are more important. The other issue is RANGE ANXIETY as the 'primary' vehicle in our house is the one that makes road trips. I see the Tesla chargers along the highway but I also don't want to go that way, I'd rather drive Route 66 on the backroads than the interstates. I suppose it can be done, but maybe with more effort than I'm willing to make.
PHEV, as I've noted previously, seem to make zero economic sense.
When I compare the size/features of a hybrid that fits my needs to a pure EV, the EV tends to be BOTH smaller AND more expensive. Hyundai Ionic 5 EV versus the Hyundai Hyundai Santa Fe traditional hybrid is a good example, if similarly equipped. Tesla 3 EV versus Toyota Crown hybrid.
I agree with a lot of your points. Another 5 years. It's going to be a whole different world. My buddy Steve up in Powell has the Audi plug-in hybrid. They loved the car. Unfortunately it's been at the dealer in Bozeman for 6 months. The last I heard repairs were not going to be anytime soon. I'm not sure I need to ask him where he is at with it. Luckily they provided him with a loaner ice vehicle.
The truth is road tripping an EV is still right on the edge with no room for error. I have done it successfully numerous times this summer. But all it would have taken was one station to be offline to make it a very long charging experience.
The most ideal situation would be someone that commutes to a job 50 to 100 mi each direction everyday. Not sure how many people do that where you live, but there are a decent amount that travel that out here. That vehicle would make the payment in fuel savings. Shorter commutes you're going to save money. Maybe not quite as much. But there is still a huge difference between spending $4 a gallon for gas or 15 cents a kilowatt hour for electricity.
The truth is road tripping an EV is still right on the edge with no room for error. I have done it successfully numerous times this summer. But all it would have taken was one station to be offline to make it a very long charging experience.
The most ideal situation would be someone that commutes to a job 50 to 100 mi each direction everyday. Not sure how many people do that where you live, but there are a decent amount that travel that out here. That vehicle would make the payment in fuel savings. Shorter commutes you're going to save money. Maybe not quite as much. But there is still a huge difference between spending $4 a gallon for gas or 15 cents a kilowatt hour for electricity.
chowderman
Well-known member
I don't doubt your observations - but they are _your real world_ which is not _everyone's real world_
for example:
EV with advertised 300 mile range.
ICE with advertised 20 mpg; 15 gallon tank = range 300 miles.
climbing hills, the EV uses more watts/mile.
regen braking on the down hill segments "recovers" watts to the battery, range is still 300 miles (less mechanical&energy transform losses...)
climbing hills, the ICE mpg drops.
going down hill does not "make gas in the tank"
going down hill uses not much gas 'coasting'
range is still +/-300 miles.
most people drive "home to destination back to home" - so there is no net up/down to be had.
the law of conservation of energy has _NO_ exceptions.
for regen braking to "put range in your tank" you must only drive down hill.
the best description I've read:
"regen braking does not make an EV more efficient.
it makes an EV less inefficient."
I'm a fan of the EV concept. I'm not a fan of the TV ads extolling 0 to 600 mph in four seconds.
if you want super acceleration, drive a methanol fueled dragster.
mega acceleration requires mega energy - and that saps the living daylights out of a battery pack.
in an earlier post. . . . I tracked our driving habits for most of a year. our "real world" shows we require a plug in EV hybrid with 100 mile electric range. that car could replace our ICE - electric every day and 'gas on the exception road trips'
it is patently insane to buy one car for local use and one car for extended use - well, unless you're a billionaire.....
a 100 mile PHEV does not exist yet. stuff like a 17 mile electric range? that' a joke.
perhaps if/when solid state "double the range" batteries become real . . .
for example:
EV with advertised 300 mile range.
ICE with advertised 20 mpg; 15 gallon tank = range 300 miles.
climbing hills, the EV uses more watts/mile.
regen braking on the down hill segments "recovers" watts to the battery, range is still 300 miles (less mechanical&energy transform losses...)
climbing hills, the ICE mpg drops.
going down hill does not "make gas in the tank"
going down hill uses not much gas 'coasting'
range is still +/-300 miles.
most people drive "home to destination back to home" - so there is no net up/down to be had.
the law of conservation of energy has _NO_ exceptions.
for regen braking to "put range in your tank" you must only drive down hill.
the best description I've read:
"regen braking does not make an EV more efficient.
it makes an EV less inefficient."
I'm a fan of the EV concept. I'm not a fan of the TV ads extolling 0 to 600 mph in four seconds.
if you want super acceleration, drive a methanol fueled dragster.
mega acceleration requires mega energy - and that saps the living daylights out of a battery pack.
in an earlier post. . . . I tracked our driving habits for most of a year. our "real world" shows we require a plug in EV hybrid with 100 mile electric range. that car could replace our ICE - electric every day and 'gas on the exception road trips'
it is patently insane to buy one car for local use and one car for extended use - well, unless you're a billionaire.....
a 100 mile PHEV does not exist yet. stuff like a 17 mile electric range? that' a joke.
perhaps if/when solid state "double the range" batteries become real . . .
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Yes, but you're forgetting one huge factor in a ice vehicle how much energy is lost in heat. As you downshift to slow down on that hill. As you apply the brakes to slow down or stop. Just sitting at a stop sign you are using gasoline. Yes, the Ev is using electricity also, but is using less than a gasoline vehicle. Hence the reason our wonderful Ice vehicles shut off when you pull up to a stop sign.
That works if you use the same path in and out every trip.
I would disagree with that statement, every time an ice vehicle steps on the brakes. EV are regenerating electricity.
Just a few thoughts I had
No one ever had to call a tow truck when there car ran out of gas in front of a gas station either until now.. All this EV talk is great, it may work for some, an electric golf cart may work for some, But for the masses its not ready yet and I'm not convinced it ever will. Hydrogen has a lot more promise and is a more realistic alternative to fossil fuels, but its not ready yet either.