Might be looking for a new car, possibly a hybrid?

[mbsieg]

2 cents a kwh?

I wish that we had that here at any time of the day.

Don't feel bad. I don't even get paid that much for the power I push back into the grid anytime.
But I have seen a lot of people post when they are on time of use plans next to nothing in the middle of the night. Some people even say they get free EV charging in the middle of the night.

 

[m1west]

I didn't say a Tesla power wall. I said a Tesla powerwall would be a common name. The 30 KWH of storage I have at my house cost me about $7,000. The warranty on that battery is 10 years or 4000 cycles. Let's just say the battery lasts the 4000 cycles. And you cycle them once a day. That's 120,000 KWH of energy in the lifetime of the battery. Yes, there is going to be some degradation. But the batteries are guaranteed to 90% at end of warranty. So let's use 108,000 KWH. So they are buying energy off peak hours for $0.02 a kwh. And selling on peak for $0.54. now remember I'm just using my small battery pack as an example.
108,000×.02=2160.00 buying
108,000×.54=58320.00 selling
Now they have a considerable amount more than 30 KWH that they are doing this with. Sure, looks like the math works out to me.

 

[m1west]

You have a decimal point in the wrong place PG&E compensation rate for aug. 2023 is .07902 for one thing, and the other is you will have to show me where you can buy electricity from PG&E in ca. for .02. Like I said you are not going to make money with that business model

 

[mbsieg]

You have a decimal point in the wrong place PG&E compensation rate for aug. 2013 is .07902 for one thing, and the other is you will have to show me where you can buy electricity from PG&E in ca. for .02. Like I said you are not going to make money with that business model

No, the decimal place is not wrong. And I highly doubt I'm going to be able to convince my buddy to post his home to grid contract. You're looking at a residential grid tie solar reimbursement schedule. Which is a very low. Which is what I have at my house. They don't need power during the day when the sun is shining. In fact, power companies do not like getting more power during the day. There are time of use plans where electricity is next to nothing. I encourage you to check it out. Some people live in areas where that works. Some people do not.

This is all in its infancy. This is the same procedure that you Elon musk is using with his mega packs. By low sell high. I guarantee he's not putting those battery packs out there and losing money.
What you need to find is a time of use, pricing structure (for buying), and a home to grid structure during peak demand hours (for selling).

 

[Melensdad]

... There are time of use plans where electricity is next to nothing. I encourage you to check it out. Some people live in areas where that works. Some people do not...

In my area, and hourly changing rates seems to vary from utility company to utility company, my electricity costs the same at Noon as at Midnight and all other times. 1 rate for 24 hours. The sale back to my utility is also a single rate regardless of the time of day.

 

[PGBC]

In BC where I live it costs $0.17 kwh day, night, full moon, rainstorm, 365 days a year. There is no cheap rate, or other rate.
My house has a meter, shop has a meter, barn has a meter, well has a meter.
I also have a propane tank, which is on an automatic fill schedule, so I don't have to call anyone, or monitor its level.
The propane truck drives around this area every second month, and if you sign up for automatic fill, the driver stops and fills it.
Almost every place in the area has propane, and is on the automatic fill list.
If you call a place for a special fill, it would cost way more, as they make a special trip, and charge delivery.
This way I pay for the propane, and a $5 delivery charge.
The lady who drives the propane truck couldn't be nicer, and is a country girl herself, who has dogs, horses, and 160 acres, so is used to this life style.
Even though she has to fill up 3 tanks at my place, she doesn't even charge me 3 delivery fees, just 1.

 

[mbsieg]

In my area, and hourly changing rates seems to vary from utility company to utility company, my electricity costs the same at Noon as at Midnight and all other times. 1 rate for 24 hours. The sale back to my utility is also a single rate regardless of the time of day.

Same here Bob. Otherwise I would be taking advantage of it. I need to just start a new thread to get yours back on track.

 

[PGBC]

Now lets say someone had a 30 kw battery pack in their house, and daily filled it, and sold back 100% of the power in it, at 5 cents a kw, they would make $1.50 a day.
They had had to buy the power to begin with, or pay for an expensive solar system, not to mention buy the pricey battery pack.
How the heck does a person make money doing that.

Lets lowball the price of the solar, and battery at only $15,000 which I'm sure is too low, but lets just pretend.

That would require 10,000 days, or cycles, which is far longer than the battery pack will last, just to break even.



Even if some power company will pay you 10p cents a kw, and good luck getting 5 cents, much less 10 cents, but lets pretend for fun.
That is still 5000 days, and cycles.
The battery is junk by 5000 cycles and has to be replaced, and you never made a nickel.

So I'm very curious about how people are making all this money selling power to the grid.

 

[mbsieg]

Now lets say someone had a 30 kw battery pack in their house, and daily filled it, and sold back 100% of the power in it, at 5 cents a kw, they would make $1.50 a day.
They had had to buy the power to begin with, or pay for an expensive solar system, not to mention buy the pricey battery pack.
How the heck does a person make money doing that.

Lets lowball the price of the solar, and battery at only $15,000 which I'm sure is too low, but lets just pretend.

That would require 10,000 days, or cycles, which is far longer than the battery pack will last, just to break even.



Even if some power company will pay you 10p cents a kw, and good luck getting 5 cents, much less 10 cents, but lets pretend for fun.
That is still 5000 days, and cycles.
The battery is junk by 5000 cycles and has to be replaced, and you never made a nickel.

So I'm very curious about how people are making all this money selling power to the grid.

With Bob and your permission, can we merge this into the other thread that I just made?

 

[Melensdad]

With Bob and your permission, can we merge this into the other thread that I just made?

I know there is a way to do that. I think I can actually merge PART of this thread with the other thread. But honestly don't have time at the moment to dig into doing that. Maybe one of the other moderators has the time to do that? But it does make sense to do so.

 

[PGBC]

With Bob and your permission, can we merge this into the other thread that I just made?

Sounds good.

 

[PGBC]

ps. Where my above post says 1p, it should say 10.
Cannot seem to be able to edit it.

 

[mbsieg]

ps. Where my above post says 1p, it should say 10.
Cannot seem to be able to edit it.

I just copied and pasted the answer in the other thread. Thanks

 

[Melensdad]

Drove just shy of 49 miles yesterday. All rural and suburban roads, drive thru at CVS, hardware store, Steak & Shake drive thru, all while running errands. Pulled into the neighborhood as I was returning from the fencing club and snapped this shot. This type of fuel economy in a diesel is one of the reasons I am so hesitant to commit to buying a new vehicle. And it's a fast and comfortable car too. Basically used 1 gallon of fuel, speeds ranged from 65mph to stop & go traffic during the day.

 

[mbsieg]

Drove just shy of 49 miles yesterday. All rural and suburban roads, drive thru at CVS, hardware store, Steak & Shake drive thru, all while running errands. Pulled into the neighborhood as I was returning from the fencing club and snapped this shot. This type of fuel economy in a diesel is one of the reasons I am so hesitant to commit to buying a new vehicle. And it's a fast and comfortable car too. Basically used 1 gallon of fuel, speeds ranged from 65mph to stop & go traffic during the day.

View attachment 167365

Not sure where you are at diesel price wise, but 10 cents a mile is Pretty awesome!

 

[Melensdad]

Not sure where you are at diesel price wise, but 10 cents a mile is Pretty awesome!

Today about $4.19, last week I paid $3.65 for diesel when I filled up. Still driving on last weeks fuel.

 

[chowderman]

had a number of diesels - sedans, station wagons . . . never ever saw 40+ mpg . . .

son has a dualie diesel RAM - he tows a 7k# RV/trailer to job sites - agreed,,,, towing is different but even in daily moving around he does not see that kind of mpg economy.

 

[mbsieg]

Today about $4.19, last week I paid $3.65 for diesel when I filled up. Still driving on last weeks fuel.

Northern Wyoming is currently 4.99 a gallon for diesel. Gasoline is 4.20 to 4.50 a gallon depending on the town

 

[PGBC]

Drove just shy of 49 miles yesterday. All rural and suburban roads, drive thru at CVS, hardware store, Steak & Shake drive thru, all while running errands. Pulled into the neighborhood as I was returning from the fencing club and snapped this shot. This type of fuel economy in a diesel is one of the reasons I am so hesitant to commit to buying a new vehicle. And it's a fast and comfortable car too. Basically used 1 gallon of fuel, speeds ranged from 65mph to stop & go traffic during the day.

View attachment 167365

Apparently you need new shocks though lol 🤣🤣🤣

 

[chowderman]

solid state batteries are "the thing" - but as you can guess, there's some bugs they're not talking about . . .

Toyota's Solid-state Batteries Will Offer A Range Of 745 Miles And Charge In Under 10 Minutes!

It seemed like Toyta's entire focus is on hydrogen-tech, but the company's advancements in solid-state batteries has taken everyone by surprise.

www.topspeed.com

and the details on solid state issues

What Nobody Is Telling You About Solid-State Batteries

Many automakers are deeply invested in solid-state batteries, but here are some things that nobody is telling you.

www.topspeed.com

 

[Melensdad]

So back to this thread.

Expanded my research to include all electric vehicles. Damn I'm in love with the FISKER OCEAN but I honestly don't think it is ready for 'prime time' and, as the vehicle will be primarily for the Lovely Mrs_Bob it just seems like that is too much of a risk vehicle to buy for her.

She likes the Hyundai IONIC 5 all electric. But the range is 266 miles and I have some issues with that. Cost, including the home charger + installation, for an IONIC 5 'Limited' is going to be north of $63,000 with sales taxes/license fees, etc.

The Hyundai Santa Fe is fully redesigned, details are sketchy, but as they actually increased the size, it is probably a bit too big for her needs and desires.

We come back and re-visit the TOYOTA CROWN and the TOYOTA VENZA. Fully loaded VENZA SUV is south of $50K and Fully loaded CROWN 'Limited' sedan is right at $51,000. Add sales/license fees and it tacks on a couple more grand. Both get exceptional fuel economy and neither have range anxiety issues. The CROWN is a bit more luxurious than the VENZA. Both use the same drivetrain and nearly identical fuel economy. Crown has a few more features, a bit nicer trim. Venza has more room for luggage in the back.

 

[m1west]

So back to this thread.

Expanded my research to include all electric vehicles. Damn I'm in love with the FISKER OCEAN but I honestly don't think it is ready for 'prime time' and, as the vehicle will be primarily for the Lovely Mrs_Bob it just seems like that is too much of a risk vehicle to buy for her.

She likes the Hyundai IONIC 5 all electric. But the range is 266 miles and I have some issues with that. Cost, including the home charger + installation, for an IONIC 5 'Limited' is going to be north of $63,000 with sales taxes/license fees, etc.

The Hyundai Santa Fe is fully redesigned, details are sketchy, but as they actually increased the size, it is probably a bit too big for her needs and desires.

We come back and re-visit the TOYOTA CROWN and the TOYOTA VENZA. Fully loaded VENZA SUV is south of $50K and Fully loaded CROWN 'Limited' sedan is right at $51,000. Add sales/license fees and it tacks on a couple more grand. Both get exceptional fuel economy and neither have range anxiety issues. The CROWN is a bit more luxurious than the VENZA. Both use the same drivetrain and nearly identical fuel economy. Crown has a few more features, a bit nicer trim. Venza has more room for luggage in the back.

With all the new innovations competing for supremacy, Electric, hydrogen or whatever. Im holding my cards unit I see which way things are going. Personally I am rooting for hydrogen as that technology can be retro fit to existing vehicles much easier than electric.

 

[Melensdad]

Hydrogen seems to be the long term answer. But I’m thinking I’ll be long past my driving years by the time it is widely adopted.

 

[m1west]

Hydrogen seems to be the long term answer. But I’m thinking I’ll be long past my driving years by the time it is widely adopted.

That might be true, but may be true of electric as well. I have a couple yeas until I have to buy something, so I'm not in a hurry to make a big change.

 

[Melensdad]

So just to go back to the early choices in this thread . . .

The 2023 Hyundai Hybrid Santa Fe is no longer in consideration. But the newly redesigned Santa Fe Hybrid, which is rumored to get approximately 34 to 35mpg is still in consideration.

Right now I'd say that the following vehicles are high on the possible list (in no particular order)

• 2024 redesigned Hyundai Santa Fe hybrid
• 2024 Hyundai Ioniq 5 electric SUV
• 2023 or 2024 Toyota Crown hybrid
• 2023 or 2024 Toyota Venza hybrid
• 2023 or 2024 Tesla Model Y

If you want to press me for the top 3 choices, possibly in the order in which I might choose them, I'd say the '23 or '24 Toyota Crown, the '24 Hyundai Santa Fe and then the '24 Ioniq 5.

Much as I had to do it, because I think it is awesome, the Fisker Ocean, needs to be dropped from the current list. In a year it might be a far more practical choice. But for now, not so much and lots of risk since it is rolling out slowly, production limited, dealers non-existent, etc.

 

[Melensdad]

At this point I'm going to delay a purchase until the new 2024 Hyundai Santa Fe is available.

The lovely Mrs_Bob and I are not in a rush for a new vehicle. It looks increasingly likely that we will NOT buy an Electric Vehicle. I'd guess the odds are 65% against an EV at this point in time. The 2024 Hyundai Santa Fe is a traditional gas/hybrid, still waiting on the detailed specs to be announced, but right now that looks like the likely vehicle we may purchase if the specs fall in line to what I think they will/should be. It will be available early 2024, so just a few months away. The Toyota Crown and the Toyota Venza are still both top fall back choices.

Of course if gasoline and diesel are approaching $5/gallon that changes the math too. But I can still find gas in the $3.85 range and diesel in the $4.19 range. Both of which seem obscenely high given the petroleum reserves we have underground in this nation.

 

[Melensdad]

Bought a 2023 Toyota Venza today.

The Audi A6, with the heretofore bulletproof diesel engine, died an abrupt death. $8000 estimated repair bill on a 2014 car from a trusted shop, mostly parts, so I know the guy wasn't jerking me around, probably $4000 cheaper than the dealer would quote. Uh, no. Sold it for scrap.

The Venza is the "Limited" trim version, black metallic paint with black interior. The paint is actually beautiful, not a true black, not sure what Toyota calls it, but it is really nice looking. The lovely Mrs_Bob has a new primary vehicle, her phone auto connects, the baby seat is already installed, Homelink is programmed to the garage door opener.

I'd also have preferred the optional carpet mats to the heavy duty weatherproof mats the dealer added, but that is just a looks thing for me and the heavy duty weatherproof mats are certainly more practical. I'd have preferred any color other than black for the interior, but this was in stock. I didn't want to wait 12 weeks. Parts shortages are so bad that I only got 1 remote key, the dealer said Toyota will get me another remote, no added cost, but I have to wait for it. There are no nearby Toyota Crown Limited + "Technology Package" available, so really didn't even compare this to any other vehicle on my 'short list' of choices. Went in, looked, test drove, gave them a check, drove it home.

BUT DAMN, 2 hours to buy a freakin car. I literally paid with a cashiers check, why the F### does it take so damn long for them to process some papers? And they had a questionaire . . . How many miles do you plan to drive? Do you have pets? Do you have children? What are the roads like where you drive? City or highway? Honestly I blew up, literally said I am not answering the questions and what business is it of yours to know anyway . . . blah blah blah I'm giving you cash, give me the F###### car.

They offered me a free bottle of water and sped things up to get me the hell out of their dealership after that. I refused the water.

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

I've paid "cash" for my last couple of vehicles. It is amazing how long it takes and how much paper work they still want you to process. For the last two I used the same dealership and salesman because he was so much faster and easier than anywhere else I have gone. But yeah, two hours is probably the norm. I think they do it all to stall while they prep the vehicle.
We really wanted to get a Toyota for our last car but it was near the end of the "not-a-pandemic" and the Toyota dealerships were absolutely raping customers with extra fees and long wait times.

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

Also, I´m curious what died on the Audi?

 

[Doc]

Guessing you bought the hybrid Bob, right?
I bought a 20' aluminum trailer last weekend. I chatted with the guy about cars a bit. Told him I shied away from a Toyota Avalon hybrid. Was afraid of battery replacement costs. He said he had a Camry hybrid and has right at 200k on it and still on the original battery. All going good. Impressive.