Might be looking for a new car, possibly a hybrid?

[Melensdad]

So now things get interesting.

Hyundai Santa Fe is on my list. But they just released some info on the upcoming Santa Fe, which is supposed to be released later this year (that timing works well for me).

Assuming it is offered in a Hybrid, possibly a plug in Hybrid, then it might just be that it rises to the top of my list, provided that it is not too big. Using my current Audi A6 as the maximum length/size, maximum turning radius, the current 2023 generation Santa Fe fits my urban parking garage needs and also fits my rural lifestyle for mid-size cargo capacity. The newest version is getting a little bigger. But how much bigger? All I know is that I like the looks.

Assuming the 2024 updated Santa Fe comes in at only SLIGHTLY bigger than the 2023, with fuel economy Hybrid 30-32mpg range, and a turning radius that is no wider than my current Audi A6, and a price tag that is modestly higher than the current 2023, then I am impressed and would put the Hyundai Santa Fe above the Toyota Venza on my list. Not sure if I would put it above the Toyota Crown, which I also think is just about perfect. Definitely would put it above the Lexus ES hybrid, even if the Lexus is the most luxurious and gets the highest mpg.

2024 Hyundai Santa Fe Undergoes a Wild Design Transformation

The boxy new mid-size SUV promises a longer wheelbase, greater cargo capacity, and a more luxurious interior with an available third row of seats.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[300 H and H]

6 cents per mile total cost appeals to me. (Tesla of course)
I could even put up with some inconvenience when I consider that.
That said I spent the day in a 485 hp Dodge Challenger getting 22mpg at 79 mph.
Gas cars will be around for quite some time. EV's need to be in Urbana. It is where
the air is being fouled up.
Global warning is a left wing lie. Plenty of evidence you cannot get a Democrat to look at
because most are idiots.

 

[Melensdad]

6 cents per mile total cost appeals to me. (Tesla of course)
I could even put up with some inconvenience when I consider that.
That said I spent the day in a 485 hp Dodge Challenger getting 22mpg at 79 mph.
Gas cars will be around for quite some time. EV's need to be in Urbana. It is where
the air is being fouled up.
Global warning is a left wing lie. Plenty of evidence you cannot get a Democrat to look at
because most are idiots.

Total costs of car ownership are probably lowest for high mpg hybrids, pure EV total costs are still not quite where they need to be to be fully competitive.

Kelly Blue Book, Edmunds, etc have examined all the factors many times. The gap is closing. But EV still is more expensive in apple-to-apple comparisons.

https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/hidden-costs-owning-electric-vehicle/

 

[chowderman]

and another car carrier ship burns . . . it must be a really hot market for these electric cars . . .

"One of the 25 electric cars onboard caught fire, Dutch public broadcaster NOS reported, citing a coast guard official.

Dutch crews battle major blaze on cargo ship – DW – 07/26/2023

An electric car aboard the Fremantle Highway carrier is believed to have caught fire, according to Dutch media. The ship was carrying nearly 3,000 cars en route from Germany to Egypt.

www.dw.com

 

[tiredretired]

That Crown looks very nice, but man, those low profile rubber band tires would be a killer up here. We have a friend that has what I can best describe as the Nissan Altima version of that in AWD and he somehow managed to destroy his right front tire and wheel before even leaving his condo parking lot. I have no idea how he managed to do that and I was quite surprised he admitted it to me. I just didn't ask.

 

[Doc]

I have an Avalon, touring editiion with the low profile tires. Driving in Columbus I hit a hole and BAM. Bent the rim and messed up the tire. So when it was time to replace all the tires I upsized. I bought 225/50/18 instead of 225/45/18. Better ride and no bent rims or flats in over 20k miles.

 

[bczoom]

I too have an Avalon. Ummm, I don't hit shit.

 

[chowderman]

our local Giant just had two charging stations installed.
(in a lot of ~300 spaces.... that's forward thinking . . . )

so I got curious and checked out the costs.
$0.48 per KW-hr - fast or slow, no difference - plus 6% sales tax and unspecified "fees"

math-drum-roll-please . . . .
using published data for battery size and usable range of some higher range EVs
and
$4/gal gasoline @ 22 mpg

the cost in $/mile is within $0.001

so spend an extra $20 - $50k for an EV with "fuel cost" = the same.
oops.

and, more worser yet, , ,
(a) we all know you can trust the range numbers from EV makers
(b) even the EV makers are now 'admitting' cold weather performance 'up to' half the 'rated range'
so spend an extra $20 - $50k for an EV with "fuel cost" = double.
oops^2.
(c) eco what?

now,,, charging at home will be significantly cheaper - central PA runs me $0.13-0.14/kw-hr - 'at home' fuel costs will be (optimistic lies) ~30%, real life ~15% "fuel cheaper"
'no one' pays $0.48 kw-hr residential - Hawaii tops the charts at $0.30 kw-hr
but looking at the geographically more wide spread "charging stores" - vacationing is gonna' cost a lot more and take a lot more time....

. . . . waiting for the photos . . . . "Last Charging Station for 300 Miles"

"EVs - a technology far behind its time."

 

[PGBC]

our local Giant just had two charging stations installed.
(in a lot of ~300 spaces.... that's forward thinking . . . )

so I got curious and checked out the costs.
$0.48 per KW-hr - fast or slow, no difference - plus 6% sales tax and unspecified "fees"

math-drum-roll-please . . . .
using published data for battery size and usable range of some higher range EVs
and
$4/gal gasoline @ 22 mpg

the cost in $/mile is within $0.001

so spend an extra $20 - $50k for an EV with "fuel cost" = the same.
oops.

and, more worser yet, , ,
(a) we all know you can trust the range numbers from EV makers
(b) even the EV makers are now 'admitting' cold weather performance 'up to' half the 'rated range'
so spend an extra $20 - $50k for an EV with "fuel cost" = double.
oops^2.
(c) eco what?

now,,, charging at home will be significantly cheaper - central PA runs me $0.13-0.14/kw-hr - 'at home' fuel costs will be (optimistic lies) ~30%, real life ~15% "fuel cheaper"
'no one' pays $0.48 kw-hr residential - Hawaii tops the charts at $0.30 kw-hr
but looking at the geographically more wide spread "charging stores" - vacationing is gonna' cost a lot more and take a lot more time....

. . . . waiting for the photos . . . . "Last Charging Station for 300 Miles"

"EVs - a technology far behind its time."

Or...a good excuse to never have to vacation again

 

[mbsieg]

our local Giant just had two charging stations installed.
(in a lot of ~300 spaces.... that's forward thinking . . . )

so I got curious and checked out the costs.
$0.48 per KW-hr - fast or slow, no difference - plus 6% sales tax and unspecified "fees"

math-drum-roll-please . . . .
using published data for battery size and usable range of some higher range EVs
and
$4/gal gasoline @ 22 mpg

the cost in $/mile is within $0.001

so spend an extra $20 - $50k for an EV with "fuel cost" = the same.
oops.

and, more worser yet, , ,
(a) we all know you can trust the range numbers from EV makers
(b) even the EV makers are now 'admitting' cold weather performance 'up to' half the 'rated range'
so spend an extra $20 - $50k for an EV with "fuel cost" = double.
oops^2.
(c) eco what?

now,,, charging at home will be significantly cheaper - central PA runs me $0.13-0.14/kw-hr - 'at home' fuel costs will be (optimistic lies) ~30%, real life ~15% "fuel cheaper"
'no one' pays $0.48 kw-hr residential - Hawaii tops the charts at $0.30 kw-hr
but looking at the geographically more wide spread "charging stores" - vacationing is gonna' cost a lot more and take a lot more time....

. . . . waiting for the photos . . . . "Last Charging Station for 300 Miles"

"EVs - a technology far behind its time."

Could you possibly show your math on the top equation please?

 

[chowderman]

not really - it's simple enough.

go to any fairy tale website that gives you usable miles per charge.
note the kw-hrs of that 'usable charge' (note - usable is not battery capacity)
multiply the kw-hrs needed to charge the car by $0.48, divide that "fill up cost" by the usable range miles.
that gives you $/mile cost for 'electric fuel'

compare that electric fuel costs to $4/gal gasoline divided by 22 mpg.
or any other numbers you want to use.

these companies are itching to get Federal grant money to install charging stations so they they can rape&pillage EV drivers with KW-hr rates 4x, 5x, 6x, 10x the cost. get on the Turnpike - see what options you have.

 

[m1west]

Your going to see lots of electric cars and trucks with a diesel generator in the back/trailer

 

[chowderman]

Your going to see lots of electric cars and trucks with a diesel generator in the back/trailer

 

[mbsieg]

not really - it's simple enough.

go to any fairy tale website that gives you usable miles per charge.
note the kw-hrs of that 'usable charge' (note - usable is not battery capacity)
multiply the kw-hrs needed to charge the car by $0.48, divide that "fill up cost" by the usable range miles.
that gives you $/mile cost for 'electric fuel'

compare that electric fuel costs to $4/gal gasoline divided by 22 mpg.
or any other numbers you want to use.

these companies are itching to get Federal grant money to install charging stations so they they can rape&pillage EV drivers with KW-hr rates 4x, 5x, 6x, 10x the cost. get on the Turnpike - see what options you have.

I was just curious how you were doing your math.

I guess I do mine a little different.
$4÷22 miles is $.18 a mile.

EVs typically express their range in miles per kilowatt.
The 22 miles per gallon is a tough one for me to compare because I don't know of a comparable size vehicle in EV. But I can compare my f-150s. I have a 2020 SuperCrew 5 and 1/2 ft short box and a 2022 Ford lightning. Basically the same truck other than the 3.5 EcoBoost in the 2020.

My lightning gets 2.4 m/Kwh. At 75 on the interstate.
I'll use your 48 cents a kilowatt. Which is really quite high for a DC fast charger. But there are chargers out there that charge that.
Lightning .48÷2.4=.20 a mile
Ecoboost 4.00÷18mpg .22 a mile

Now I've never personally paid that much to charge my truck at a DC fast charger.
Electrify America stations with the pass plus membership are currently .36 a Kwh
So .36÷2.4=.15 a mile

The cheapest charging sessions are the electrify America stations where they charge by the minute. Usually about $10 to charge from 20% to 80%.

And honestly for the little bit you DC fast charge. These are moot points. As you stated yourself, most people charge their car at home at .15 a Kwh.
.15÷2.4= .06 a mile

A few years back I installed a 15kW solar system. Guess what my electricity costs. The system paid for itself in the first few years. Granted I was able to build and install The system myself so it was very affordable.

I am by no means left leaning. Everyone wants to make this political. It's not political. It's called saving money. I have taken that Ford lightning on numerous vacations this summer. Not short vacations by any means. 2-2,500 mile trips, and a 1500 mile trip. And yes I saved half of what the gas truck would have cost to drive. There is about 12,000 mi on the truck now and so far I have had no issues. And it is has never left me on the side of the road.

 

[mbsieg]

View attachment 167140

I get such a kick out of this picture. Sit down and actually figure out the efficiency on that once. You might be very surprised.

 

[NorthernRedneck]

The thing I keep coming back to is how the hell is there going to be enough hydro to supply all these electric vehicles? I'm at camp now. We are an hour drive from the nearest community. For the current hydro infrastructure to support what the current demand nevermind 80 electric vehicles, the hydro company has installed not one but two large diesel generators on 48ft semi trailers running in parallel 24hrs a day during the weekends to supply enough power so we can at least run our ac on a hot day. Nevermind adding the drain of 80 electric vehicles. I stick with my gas truck a while longer. In some areas of the province where I live, the hydro infrastructure is from the 1940s and the lines traverse some pretty ugly country meaning that whenever someone farts within 10km of a hydro line, the power got knocked out for 16 hrs. Tell me again how that works with an ev?

 

[mbsieg]

The thing I keep coming back to is how the hell is there going to be enough hydro to supply all these electric vehicles? I'm at camp now. We are an hour drive from the nearest community. For the current hydro infrastructure to support what the current demand nevermind 80 electric vehicles, the hydro company has installed not one but two large diesel generators on 48ft semi trailers running in parallel 24hrs a day during the weekends to supply enough power so we can at least run our ac on a hot day. Nevermind adding the drain of 80 electric vehicles. I stick with my gas truck a while longer. In some areas of the province where I live, the hydro infrastructure is from the 1940s and the lines traverse some pretty ugly country meaning that whenever someone farts within 10km of a hydro line, the power got knocked out for 16 hrs. Tell me again how that works with an ev?

Oh I 100% agree with what you're saying. If it doesn't fit for your situation, don't buy it.
If you're going to be towing a trailer, EVs are not the answer currently. It just is not worth it. But if you've got a 200 mile commute to work every day. I live in Wyoming. There are people that do that. An EV would make the car payment for itself compared to buying gas.
I did a lot of research before I purchased the vehicle because I wanted to know what I was getting into. I purchased the vehicle because I like gadgets. I like using my brain to figure out problems. I like a challenge. And I don't like being like everybody else. Would I recommend an electric vehicle to someone who doesn't want to plan ahead, nope to currently make an EV work in a rural area, you need to have a good head on your shoulders.
I think back to when my grandmother talks about her trip from Southwest Minnesota to Yellowstone with her two brothers in a model t in the 1920's/30's. I may be off on the dates a little but it was before any actual tar roads. They measured the distance in miles per day. Not hundreds of miles. Backwards uphills because the car was gravity fed gas tank. And having to walk 20 mi round trip to where I currently live because they misjudged the amount of gas the vehicle would use going over the big horn mountains. It's pretty amazing. We can make that trip in one day now. Something that took them a month to drive. Technology changes. I try to be very up front and honest about EVs to people. If anybody has real questions about what they can and can't do. Ask away. I will definitely be honest. Heck if somebody wants to go on a trip I've got tons of vacation time!
I will say after owning and driving one it sucks to go to a gas pump and put $120 in my vehicle. I can make my own electricity. I cannot make my own gas.

 

[Melensdad]

Oh I 100% agree with what you're saying. If it doesn't fit for your situation, don't buy it.
. . .

I'm shopping, slowly, for a hybrid but for 90% of the driving needs I could go electric.

If a compact EV pickup was available it could easily replace my primary pickup truck. BUT I'm not shopping for a pick up truck and I have a 2022 Honda Ridgeline that is perfect. That is not the long haul truck but rather what I use for modest length drives with the cargo bed full. So an EV truck for me would work.

I'm not sure that an EV as my primary vehicle would make as much sense, even if it would work MOST of the time. My guess is that if I got an EV instead of a hybrid/ice vehicle then I'd end up using the pickup truck for longer distance trips. I suppose I should look at the home charging options too. Hyundai Ionic 6 looks pretty nice. Tesla 3 is too small. Other Teslas are too expensive for what I want, and all Teslas are pretty ugly. Honestly not sure what other EV s are readily available. I know Audi and VW have some.

But right now the 2 top choices seem to be Toyota Crown hybrid and Hyundai's incoming 2024 model year Santa Fe if the hybrid drive looks solid.

 

[chowderman]

it's political only because 'the government(s)' are putting irrational laws/policies into reality - instead of letting the market handle the problem.

I'm hard pressed to name any large scale "program/agenda" the government has handled well.

"My lightning gets 2.4 m/Kwh. At 75 on the interstate." - at 10 degrees Fahrenheit?

"Now I've never personally paid that much to charge my truck at a DC fast charger."
yup - that was my point - EVs are going to be soaked by companies who got paid by the government to install the systems.
and don't forget - that $4/gal includes all the use and road taxes that EVs are not now paying . . . so EVs can look forward to additional tax costs

the bottom line is the EV edicts ignore the fact that EVs cannot replace every ICE use on the planet -
and next is the issue: today's technology is not ripe enough to replace all passenger cars with EVs in 3-5 years
and nest is the issue: when everyone goes home and plugs in their EV, the lights go out - generation capacity is the smallest part of that issue - upgrading the transmission lines, transformers, etc, will take a century - not 'by 2035' when "car companies"must fully convert to EV only . . . (varies by state 'laws' and company 'announcements')

 

[Melensdad]

WHILE I AM NOT PRIMARILY LOOKING AT AN EV for my next car, I will consider them.

But I've got a big back up generator on my house if the grid goes out. And I'm looking at putting solar panels on the rooftop, not for an EV but because I think it might make sense, so IF an EV comes to my home, I wouldn't be totally dependent upon the grid.

I'm still most likely getting a hybrid.

 

[mbsieg]

it's political only because 'the government(s)' are putting irrational laws/policies into reality - instead of letting the market handle the problem.

I'm hard pressed to name any large scale "program/agenda" the government has handled well.

"My lightning gets 2.4 m/Kwh. At 75 on the interstate." - at 10 degrees Fahrenheit?

"Now I've never personally paid that much to charge my truck at a DC fast charger."
yup - that was my point - EVs are going to be soaked by companies who got paid by the government to install the systems.
and don't forget - that $4/gal includes all the use and road taxes that EVs are not now paying . . . so EVs can look forward to additional tax costs

the bottom line is the EV edicts ignore the fact that EVs cannot replace every ICE use on the planet -
and next is the issue: today's technology is not ripe enough to replace all passenger cars with EVs in 3-5 years
and nest is the issue: when everyone goes home and plugs in their EV, the lights go out - generation capacity is the smallest part of that issue - upgrading the transmission lines, transformers, etc, will take a century - not 'by 2035' when "car companies"must fully convert to EV only . . . (varies by state 'laws' and company 'announcements')

Not sure about other states. And I don't have the time at the moment to research it. I know there are quite a few other states that do the same. But Wyoming dings EV drivers an additional $200 on their vehicle registration for replacement of the gas tax. Equivalent to 833 gallons of gas. Or at 20 mpg 16660 miles. So yes I do pay a road tax.

And I do agree with some of the things you're saying. EVs cannot do everything. I agree and I believe I stated it earlier. But as far as the electrical infrastructure. We may be a little more advanced than you realize. Remember at home charging your EV it uses the same amount of power as your clothes, dryer, electric range, electric, water heater, etc. Etc. In the scheme of things, 30 amps at 240 volts is not that much power. Yes you can get larger chargers but really there is no need for a larger charger. As long as the vehicle is ready to go with a full battery in the morning, what's the difference between six or 10 hours. And the last time I checked nobody was dictating in most areas (I'll leave California out of this). When You could take a shower, cook a pizza, or wash your clothes.

There is actually a very large surplus of electricity at night. That is the reason a lot of power companies reduce the rates down to next to nothing in the middle of the night. To encourage people to use that excess.

To be honest with you five years ago, I would have argued every point with you. But a lot of research talking to a lot of people with the power company. I've changed my tune quite a bit.

But back to the original point of this post. Bob is a very smart person. Has a very good head on his shoulders he could easily benefit and save a lot of money by driving an EV. Just my opinion. I was stuck on a plug-in hybrid. Actually had one ordered for about 8 months. Hit a deer with my 2020 F-150 and said to heck with it and bought a Ford lightning. Every mile we put on it I like it more and more. If you refuse to let politics dictate what you do in your life. Look at the price. Look at what it will cost you. Because a few years from now a new regime will be in power and all the policies that have been made so far will just get reversed. Seems to happen every 4 years nowadays. Just my opinion.

 

[m1west]

Not sure about other states. And I don't have the time at the moment to research it. I know there are quite a few other states that do the same. But Wyoming dings EV drivers an additional $200 on their vehicle registration for replacement of the gas tax. Equivalent to 833 gallons of gas. Or at 20 mpg 16660 miles. So yes I do pay a road tax.

And I do agree with some of the things you're saying. EVs cannot do everything. I agree and I believe I stated it earlier. But as far as the electrical infrastructure. We may be a little more advanced than you realize. Remember at home charging your EV it uses the same amount of power as your clothes, dryer, electric range, electric, water heater, etc. Etc. In the scheme of things, 30 amps at 240 volts is not that much power. Yes you can get larger chargers but really there is no need for a larger charger. As long as the vehicle is ready to go with a full battery in the morning, what's the difference between six or 10 hours. And the last time I checked nobody was dictating in most areas (I'll leave California out of this). When You could take a shower, cook a pizza, or wash your clothes.

There is actually a very large surplus of electricity at night. That is the reason a lot of power companies reduce the rates down to next to nothing in the middle of the night. To encourage people to use that excess.

To be honest with you five years ago, I would have argued every point with you. But a lot of research talking to a lot of people with the power company. I've changed my tune quite a bit.

But back to the original point of this post. Bob is a very smart person. Has a very good head on his shoulders he could easily benefit and save a lot of money by driving an EV. Just my opinion. I was stuck on a plug-in hybrid. Actually had one ordered for about 8 months. Hit a deer with my 2020 F-150 and said to heck with it and bought a Ford lightning. Every mile we put on it I like it more and more. If you refuse to let politics dictate what you do in your life. Look at the price. Look at what it will cost you. Because a few years from now a new regime will be in power and all the policies that have been made so far will just get reversed. Seems to happen every 4 years nowadays. Just my opinion.

Like running the dryer? If I run the dryer every day for 8-10 hours where I live in Ca. my bill would top $1500.00 every month, It was $785.00 last month in a 2 person household for a normal summer month with a little A/C.

 

[mbsieg]

Like running the dryer? If I run the dryer every day for 8-10 hours where I live in Ca. my bill would top $1500.00 every month, It was $785.00 last month in a 2 person household for a normal summer month with a little A/C.

I think I specifically said I was leaving California out of this. Lol you choose to live there. I don't. Lol how much do you pay per kilowatt hour?? That's just nuts. That's damn near my mortgage payment

 

[m1west]

I think I specifically said I was leaving California out of this. Lol you choose to live there. I don't. Lol how much do you pay per kilowatt hour?? That's just nuts. That's damn near my mortgage payment

I like where I live in a rural area, but the cities just won't leave us alone. The Klowattt hour thing depends on what time it is and what day it is. They just nearly doubled the rates since last year, and another raise coming. I paid my home off, the mortgage was $3800.00 without impounds. You do make more $$ here to compensate but don't have a bad month. I just paid $5.19 for regular here today.

 

[mbsieg]

I like where I live in a rural area, but the cities just won't leave us alone. The Klowattt hour thing depends on what time it is and what day it is. They just nearly doubled the rates since last year, and another raise coming. I paid my home off, the mortgage was $3800.00 without impounds. You do make more $$ here to compensate but don't have a bad month. I just paid $5.19 for regular here today.

I would honestly guess that there is a overnight rate that you could tap into for EVs.
I do know some people currently in California that have bought lithium battery stacks, Tesla walls would be a more common name. But they have a time of use plan where they are purchasing cheap electricity overnight, and then selling it back on the grid during high demand and making a boatload of money.

 

[PGBC]

Like running the dryer? If I run the dryer every day for 8-10 hours where I live in Ca. my bill would top $1500.00 every month, It was $785.00 last month in a 2 person household for a normal summer month with a little A/C.

Holy crap.

With 5 of us in the house my electric is about $80 Canadian per month.

 

[m1west]

I would honestly guess that there is a overnight rate that you could tap into for EVs.
I do know some people currently in California that have bought lithium battery stacks, Tesla walls would be a more common name. But they have a time of use plan where they are purchasing cheap electricity overnight, and then selling it back on the grid during high demand and making a boatload of money.

I would honestly guess that there is a overnight rate that you could tap into for EVs.
I do know some people currently in California that have bought lithium battery stacks, Tesla walls would be a more common name. But they have a time of use plan where they are purchasing cheap electricity overnight, and then selling it back on the grid during high demand and making a boatload of money.

Tesla power wall plus cost 12K and has a 13 kWh capacity and last 10 years. Im not seeing a way to make money with that business model. Lithium batteries degrade with cycles not time. so if you are charging it to capacity and then draining it everyday, its not going to last as long as you think.

 

[m1west]

Holy crap.

With 5 of us in the house my electric is about $80 Canadian per month.

PG&E keeps raising rates and the regulators keep letting them do it. To be fair, I have 2- 2hp well pumps with trees and horses to water and a Fab shop on the property, but its nearly double of last years rates.

 

[mbsieg]

Tesla power wall plus cost 12K and has a 13 kWh capacity and last 10 years. Im not seeing a way to make money with that business model. Lithium batteries degrade with cycles not time. so if you are charging it to capacity and then draining it everyday, its not going to last as long as you think.

I didn't say a Tesla power wall. I said a Tesla powerwall would be a common name. The 30 KWH of storage I have at my house cost me about $7,000. The warranty on that battery is 10 years or 4000 cycles. Let's just say the battery lasts the 4000 cycles. And you cycle them once a day. That's 120,000 KWH of energy in the lifetime of the battery. Yes, there is going to be some degradation. But the batteries are guaranteed to 90% at end of warranty. So let's use 108,000 KWH. So they are buying energy off peak hours for $0.02 a kwh. And selling on peak for $0.54. now remember I'm just using my small battery pack as an example.
108,000×.02=2160.00 buying
108,000×.54=58320.00 selling
Now they have a considerable amount more than 30 KWH that they are doing this with. Sure, looks like the math works out to me.

 

[PGBC]

I didn't say a Tesla power wall. I said a Tesla powerwall would be a common name. The 30 KWH of storage I have at my house cost me about $7,000. The warranty on that battery is 10 years or 4000 cycles. Let's just say the battery lasts the 4000 cycles. And you cycle them once a day. That's 120,000 KWH of energy in the lifetime of the battery. Yes, there is going to be some degradation. But the batteries are guaranteed to 90% at end of warranty. So let's use 108,000 KWH. So they are buying energy off peak hours for $0.02 a kwh. And selling on peak for $0.54. now remember I'm just using my small battery pack as an example.
108,000×.02=2160.00 buying
108,000×.54=58320.00 selling
Now they have a considerable amount more than 30 KWH that they are doing this with. Sure, looks like the math works out to me.

2 cents a kwh?

I wish that we had that here at any time of the day.