Hidden Engagement

[Spilling Her Heart]

I have been dating a guy for three years who has two beautiful kids from a previous marriage. Each step in our relationship has been greeted with a great deal of hesitation on his part. Almost as if I am setting the pace in everything here. I was ready to give up and move back to my home town and he proposed. Since proposing he has asked that we not make a big production out of it so that there was no unnecessary drama from the ex. I didn't have a problem with this until recently when his ex texted him to come by her new place of work to see the office. What did this have to do with the kids? Then we ran into a mutual friend of theirs that did not know we were engaged. Ok.. Now I am noticing a pattern. Then again this weekend we had to exchange the kids with the ex's parents and I was asked to remove my ring. We have since argued about this one. He swears that I volunteered removing my ring. I may be losing my mind here. I sure do feel like it. For some reason he can not understand why I feel awful about him actually hiding our engagement from the kids, his ex, her parents, and any mutual friends that they may have.

 

[Melensdad]

Wow, not sure how to respond. Congrats on the engagement, but I don't understand why it must be kept a secret from the EX. I have to presume there are feelings for the EX, that probably can't be helped and they probably are very mixed (love and hate) because the kids are involved and those are a part of both of them. Still, it seems to me that at some point he has to come to grips with the fact that the EX will know, must know, that you and he are together.

 

[Spilling Her Heart]

He claims that it needs to be a secret due to possible retaliation on her part. But he says he has no reason to believe she would care, and that he does not care about her. So, why the need to hide?

 

[Cowboyjg]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO


He is or he insn't, your are or you aren't, he will or he won't,

HE DOES OR HE DOESN'T......

Tooooooooo complicated. I think you're setting your self up for trouble.

If you don't have migranes now....you will.

Hell, even the airlines charge for EXCESS baggage (and I don't mean the kids)

Sorry, but there are some things that you don't compromise on...Love is one!



Nice to meet you.

Welcome to the forums....

 

[Spilling Her Heart]

No doubt that my thorough confusion has not only caused me to succumb to the advice of people I don’t even know, but I am subjected to the onslaught of some nasty migraines and relentlessly sleepless nights.

 

[Melensdad]

I think you need to have a long talk. YOU need to understand HIS side, and HE needs to understand YOUR side. TOGETHER you need to come to a common resolution.

 

[Cowboyjg]

No doubt that my thorough confusion has not only caused me to succumb to the advice of people I don’t even know, but I am subjected to the onslaught of some nasty migraines and relentlessly sleepless nights.

Just because you don't know us doesn't mean we don't know what we're talking about. You're arrival here was inevitable. Just look around, you're home now..


The longer you're here the fewer migranes you'll have. Everyone here is numb..... somewhere.

 

[Cowboyjg]

Except BOB......he's numb all over.




Actually he's right, except yours needs to be the short version.


Here's the pot, use it or lose it.

 

[Spilling Her Heart]

I think you need to have a long talk. YOU need to understand HIS side, and HE needs to understand YOUR side. TOGETHER you need to come to a common resolution.

Our long talk resulted in my being irrational due to the fact that I could not understand his side. Round and round argument went like so….

• why must we hide the engagement
• because he is worried about retaliation
• Do you think she still has feelings for you and will retaliate?
• he says no and he does not care about her feelings
• I ask if he cares about mine
• he says he is doing this for me and waiting for the “right time”
• I ask what the right time will be
• He says he does not know….

9, 10 and 11… insert migraine here….

 

[Doc]

First off welcome to Forums Forums. I'm glad you found us and decided to join us.

Sorry to read of your issues with your fiance. I assume the EX knows you both live together. So she is aware of the arrangement.
Plus your feelings of pushing the relationship to each new step concerns me. Is there a chance he knew you were getting fed up and looking for something more and he read that and responded by proposing? Is a date set or is that something that will be set in the future?
Something just don't sound right with his decision to keep it from his EX and all their mutual friends.
I see two options at this point:
1. And ultimatum to him to announce your engagement. Huge downside to ultimatums is that you have to be prepared to follow through with whatever action your say in the ultimatum. A rather tough option.
2. Accidentally (on purpose) wear your ring and accidentally (on purpose) run into a mutual friend who will let the cat out of the bag as soon as she gets to a phone.

But before you do any of this look for other signs of what his true feelings are. Trying to hide things as he is it seems very suspicious to me. You have to decide are you better off with him or without ...because either of the above actions could backfire and you end up alone.

 

[Spilling Her Heart]

Except BOB......he's numb all over.




Actually he's right, except yours needs to be the short version.


Here's the pot, use it or lose it.

Use it or lose it is a cop out ultimatum. I never threaten to walk away until I am ready to walk away. At such point that I feel I have exhausted myself in efforts and feel numb.. an ultimatum would be a pointless gesture. I pity people who win by means of ultimatum. Coursed responses are often not genuine.

 

[Cowboyjg]

First off welcome to Forums Forums. I'm glad you found us and decided to join us.

...because either of the above actions could backfire and you end up alone.

Every single one of us here who have professed our adoration for our signifcant others have included descriptions of the kind of relatonship we have. Does any of this sound familiar to you? Is this the kind of relationship you have.

I challange any one of you to say that you would expect that kind of behavior out of your partner.

As far as being alone, it beats a sharp stick in the eye, which is what she is geting in her current situation.

In an effort to be balanced though, he at least deserves an opportunity for a reality check. (although I think that has already occured)

The ultimatum is for you, not for him. How much are you willing to tolerate before it's time to get off the ride?

 

[Spilling Her Heart]

First off welcome to Forums Forums. I'm glad you found us and decided to join us.

Sorry to read of your issues with your fiance. I assume the EX knows you both live together. So she is aware of the arrangement.
Plus your feelings of pushing the relationship to each new step concerns me. Is there a chance he knew you were getting fed up and looking for something more and he read that and responded by proposing? Is a date set or is that something that will be set in the future?
Something just don't sound right with his decision to keep it from his EX and all their mutual friends.
I see two options at this point:
1. And ultimatum to him to announce your engagement. Huge downside to ultimatums is that you have to be prepared to follow through with whatever action your say in the ultimatum. A rather tough option.
2. Accidentally (on purpose) wear your ring and accidentally (on purpose) run into a mutual friend who will let the cat out of the bag as soon as she gets to a phone.

But before you do any of this look for other signs of what his true feelings are. Trying to hide things as he is it seems very suspicious to me. You have to decide are you better off with him or without ...because either of the above actions could backfire and you end up alone.

Thanks for all of your quick responses. This is way better than the “kick him to da curb!” response that I have gotten from my girlfriends. I am not ready to make a quick nor hasty decision here. I clearly love him and have a lot of emotion invested. Let me start by saying that I am an attractive, independent, successful individual. I own my own home, work for a large company in a successful position and have no real need to jump from the pan into the fire when presented with a ring. To clarify, we do not live together. He owns his home, I own mine, we share almost every night together… except for last night and tonight. We do not sleep together in his bedroom when he has the kids over. I advocate his parental decision to not send his kids the wrong message. They do not know we are engaged but they welcome the idea and have asked me to marry their daddy on numerous occasions. We will not live together until we are married. The wedding date is set for 11/11/11. We are making plans to wed in Greece. This is a big feet for both of us to afford but in my opinion well worth it. I am not in any rush. I simply don’t understand the need to hide our engagement. My ego is bruised, my sensibility lights are flashing, and my gut is not letting me sleep at night. Normally I would say communication is the key. But unless I agree that he is right and has his reasons… to him.. I am just irrational. And so that brings me here to you guys. Thanks for the great responses!

 

[Spilling Her Heart]

Every single one of us who have professed our adoration for our signifcant others have included descriptions of the kind of relatonship we have. Does any of this sound familiar to you? Is this the kind of relationship you have.

I challange any one of you to say that you would expect that kind of behavior out of your partner.

As far as being alone, it beats a sharp stick in the eye, which is what she is geting in her current situation.

In an effort to be balanced though, he at least deserves an opportunity for a reality check. (although I think that has already occured)

The ultimatum is for you, not for him. How much are you willing to tolerate before it's time to get off the ride?

Very good point. I am not sure how much more I am willing to tolerate. I am weighing my options at this point. I like to think it through. Second and third opinions help insure that my final decision is not rash but well thought out.

 

[Cowboyjg]

Sorry if I've come off a little strong but I have pretty solid positions on stuff like this....besides, I've spent all day in an Army Corp Asphalt Paving Workshop ..after connecting flights with so many kids it was like riding the school bus to work and I needed to let it out a little.

Thanks.

 

[Spilling Her Heart]

Sorry if I've come off a little strong but I have pretty solid positions on stuff like this....besides, I've spent all day in an Army Corp Asphalt Paving Workshop ..after connecting flights with so many kids it was like riding the school bus to work and I needed to let it out a little.

Thanks.

NP… I didn’t post this up in hopes that one of you might offer me a tissue and some baby talk. Thanks for your genuine unbiased opinion. Just what the Dr. ordered in my opinion.

 

[pirate_girl]

I have been dating a guy for three years who has two beautiful kids from a previous marriage. Each step in our relationship has been greeted with a great deal of hesitation on his part. Almost as if I am setting the pace in everything here. I was ready to give up and move back to my home town and he proposed. Since proposing he has asked that we not make a big production out of it so that there was no unnecessary drama from the ex. I didn't have a problem with this until recently when his ex texted him to come by her new place of work to see the office. What did this have to do with the kids? Then we ran into a mutual friend of theirs that did not know we were engaged. Ok.. Now I am noticing a pattern. Then again this weekend we had to exchange the kids with the ex's parents and I was asked to remove my ring. We have since argued about this one. He swears that I volunteered removing my ring. I may be losing my mind here. I sure do feel like it. For some reason he can not understand why I feel awful about him actually hiding our engagement from the kids, his ex, her parents, and any mutual friends that they may have.

Sounds to me like he's still too attached to the ex and her family.

Why would he care what the ex wife thinks if he loved you enough to propose? Why would he want you to not wear the engagement ring at all times?

Tell him to once and for all fish or cut bait, where the ex is concerned.

Thank God a woman is here to offer you some advice.

 

[Spilling Her Heart]

Sounds to me like he's still too attached to the ex and her family.

Why would he care what the ex wife thinks if he loved you enough to propose? Why would he want you to not wear the engagement ring at all times?

Tell him to once and for all fish or cut bait, where the ex is concerned.

Thank God a woman is here to offer you some advice.

Seems like sound and practical advice to me. The only problem is that he claims it is for the sake of the kids that he doesn’t want to piss of the ex. Depending on the path of her projected retaliation; he may be right in his fear. He has just now told me that he’d like to wait until after Christmas to tell her. I am not sure how that makes any difference. But in his eyes it makes all the difference in the world.

I am sitting at the doorstep of promises only to find the edge of emotional limbo…

 

[pirate_girl]

Seems like sound and practical advice to me. The only problem is that he claims it is for the sake of the kids that he doesn’t want to piss of the ex. Depending on the path of her projected retaliation; he may be right in his fear. He has just now told me that he’d like to wait until after Christmas to tell her. I am not sure how that makes any difference. But in his eyes it makes all the difference in the world.

I am sitting at the doorstep of promises only to find the edge of emotional limbo…

Perhaps he doesn't want to risk anything involving the kids, however.. after a 3 yr relationship, this is the first time this has crossed his mind?

After Christmas?? come on!! That's 5 months away!!

He's pulling something here, and you my dear are falling for it hook-line and sinker. That's just my opinion based on if this were myself walking in your shoes.

By the way, welcome.

 

[Spilling Her Heart]

Perhaps he doesn't want to risk anything involving the kids, however.. after a 3 yr relationship, this is the first time this has crossed his mind?

After Christmas?? come on!! That's 5 months away!!

He's pulling something here, and you my dear are falling for it hook-line and sinker. That's just my opinion based on if this were myself walking in your shoes.

By the way, welcome.

Pulling something? My instinct feels that same suspicion, but my mind can not verify proof enough to walk based merely on suspicion. So goes the old adage that it is easier to give advice than to take it

 

[pirate_girl]

Pulling something? My instinct feels that same suspicion, but my mind can not verify proof enough to walk based merely on suspicion. So goes the old adage that it is easier to give advice than to take it

There is still a bit of cake there, as in his wanting to have his cake and eat it too.
He wants you in his life, yet he cannot seem to entirely let go of what once was.
How involved have you been in the life of his kids?
I am assuming they know you and like you and you all may have spent some time together.
Three years is a long time to be in a relationship as far as it holding some sort of commitment.
He proposed to you so you'd stick around, now he's wanting to keep things hidden.
Just doesn't add up to me.

 

[Spilling Her Heart]

There is still a bit of cake there, as in his wanting to have his cake and eat it too.
He wants you in his life, yet he cannot seem to entirely let go of what once was.
How involved have you been in the life of his kids?
I am assuming they know you and like you and you all may have spent some time together.
Three years is a long time to be in a relationship as far as it holding some sort of commitment.
He proposed to you so you'd stick around, now he's wanting to keep things hidden.
Just doesn't add up to me.

You have just surmised my perpetual migraine in a nut shell. I have gone round and round in trying to understand him and his point of view. He feels fully justified in his effort to keep things hidden for the sake of keeping the peace. But I can not understand his feeling so justified at the cost of my feelings… the woman he is supposed to love and cherish.

 

[pirate_girl]

You have just surmised my perpetual migraine in a nut shell. I have gone round and round in trying to understand him and his point of view. He feels fully justified in his effort to keep things hidden for the sake of keeping the peace. But I can not understand his feeling so justified at the cost of my feelings… the woman he is supposed to love and cherish.

Darling, welcome to the world of men.
How old are you anyway?

 

[Erik]

late to the party, but...
you have met the Ex, right? are you comfortable talking to her when he's not around? have you gotten the impression that she's that vindictive at this point in their relationship?
she knows the 2 of you have been an item for a while - if not from seeing you together, then from the kids. The kids will tell mom "we did XYZ with dad and his girlfriend this weekend", etc... and if they've mentioned marriage to you, they've likely mentioned it to her.
Not knowing how old the kids are, but since they have brought it up in the past - ask them when they think things should happen the next time they bring it up.

have the talk with him - tell him it's his turn to listen. Lay out your feelings and insecurities and ask him for an actual reason that makes sense to your inner fears, not his vaguely unsatisfying "she might retaliate" -- which is an empty threat if he has court guaranteed visitations, which it sounds like he does.

and yes, I agree that he needs to pony up and either admit why he's hiding things or understand that you will slip away if he leaves you off the hook for too long. Do not phrase it as an ultimatum, just as a fact of life, and mean it when you say it. It'll suck to be you if it happens, but cautery beats a lingering death by emotional hemorrhage.

 

[pirate_girl]

late to the party, but...
you have met the Ex, right? are you comfortable talking to her when he's not around? have you gotten the impression that she's that vindictive at this point in their relationship?
she knows the 2 of you have been an item for a while - if not from seeing you together, then from the kids. The kids will tell mom "we did XYZ with dad and his girlfriend this weekend", etc... and if they've mentioned marriage to you, they've likely mentioned it to her.
Not knowing how old the kids are, but since they have brought it up in the past - ask them when they think things should happen the next time they bring it up.

have the talk with him - tell him it's his turn to listen. Lay out your feelings and insecurities and ask him for an actual reason that makes sense to your inner fears, not his vaguely unsatisfying "she might retaliate" -- which is an empty threat if he has court guaranteed visitations, which it sounds like he does.

and yes, I agree that he needs to pony up and either admit why he's hiding things or understand that you will slip away if he leaves you off the hook for too long. Do not phrase it as an ultimatum, just as a fact of life, and mean it when you say it. It'll suck to be you if it happens, but cautery beats a lingering death by emotional hemorrhage.

Well Holy crap Erik!
Now that deserves a rep!

 

[Spilling Her Heart]

Darling, welcome to the world of men.
How old are you anyway?

The question of my age must be based on my seemingly naïve belief in the good of people before proven otherwise. I hold that ability as a bittersweet treasure.

I am 35 he is 38. He has two very young daughters and I have one who is 18.

 

[Spilling Her Heart]

late to the party, but...
you have met the Ex, right? are you comfortable talking to her when he's not around? have you gotten the impression that she's that vindictive at this point in their relationship?
she knows the 2 of you have been an item for a while - if not from seeing you together, then from the kids. The kids will tell mom "we did XYZ with dad and his girlfriend this weekend", etc... and if they've mentioned marriage to you, they've likely mentioned it to her.
Not knowing how old the kids are, but since they have brought it up in the past - ask them when they think things should happen the next time they bring it up.

have the talk with him - tell him it's his turn to listen. Lay out your feelings and insecurities and ask him for an actual reason that makes sense to your inner fears, not his vaguely unsatisfying "she might retaliate" -- which is an empty threat if he has court guaranteed visitations, which it sounds like he does.

and yes, I agree that he needs to pony up and either admit why he's hiding things or understand that you will slip away if he leaves you off the hook for too long. Do not phrase it as an ultimatum, just as a fact of life, and mean it when you say it. It'll suck to be you if it happens, but cautery beats a lingering death by emotional hemorrhage.

I have met her, had texted chat with her where she belittled him and told me things he swears were not true. Some were silly things like "he never helped with the kids in our marriage". This is clearly untrue bases on the way he tends to the children now. But I let her vent, speak her peace and so on. She left him, and has told me that she has no feelings for him and I could have him. Uh.. That was awkward since I didn't know I needed to ask for him. Things like that have made the impression that she is capable of retaliation... but why or how? Isn't he allowed to move forward with his life? She has. So is this threat of retaliation real or conjured due to emotional strings he refuses to sever? I really don't know. I have asked him and his constant response is that I am the only one for him and that he loves me.

 

[pirate_girl]

The question of my age must be based on my seemingly naïve belief in the good of people before proven otherwise. I hold that ability as a bittersweet treasure.

I am 35 he is 38. He has two very young daughters and I have one who is 18.

Not at all hun. Just wanted to get an idea is all.
Thanks for the information.
I do hope you two find the path to happiness in all this.
One thing I have learned about men being 49 years old and having been once married for a little over 16 years(divorced) then a second time for 5 ( I am a widow).. we as women will never be able to actually figure out most of the men who cross our paths, but I for one respect men (and dogs) more than most other beings.
Could be because I had an awesome Father and a few good dogs in my day.

 

[Trakternut]

my sensibility lights are flashing, and my gut is not letting me sleep at night.

What we call "gut feelings" are simply our unconscious selves nudging our conscious selves.
Our brains process and store hundreds and thousands of bits of information every day without us being aware of it. Certain things will stimulate a memory of what's stored and it manifests itself as a "gut feeling".
Your "sensibility lights" flashing is your "gut" telling you "Whoah! There, Missy! Step back and take a goooood long gander at this knight in shining armor!!!"
I think you'd be much better off if you did just that. Examine yourself thoroughly. I smell a skunk in this here culvert.

 

[Spilling Her Heart]

Not at all hun. Just wanted to get an idea is all.
Thanks for the information.
I do hope you two find the path to happiness in all this.
One thing I have learned about men being 49 years old and having been once married for a little over 16 years(divorced) then a second time for 5 ( I am a widow).. we as women will never be able to actually figure out most of the men who cross our paths, but I for one respect men (and dogs) more than most other beings.
Could be because I had an awesome Father and a few good dogs in my day.

I like you. You make me laugh. I have an awesome dog!