Why don't I see the masses of Muslims condemning this 'cleric'?

[Dargo]

I'm really having a personal issue with not seeing this as a war against Muslims when they openly say they want to kill all of us and I don't see any "moderate" or "normal" Muslims coming out and strongly condemning this terrorist rally cry to kill us. Where are the tens of thousands of Muslims in Detroit? They should be taking to the streets in loud protests. What do I see? Nothing.

Here is a link to the story: Muslim cleric; kill all Americans

Someone help me with this internal struggle. If Muslims are peaceful and don't want to kill us, why do they not speak out against their so called 'clerics' who call for murder?

 

[pirate_girl]

I don't understand this one at all Brent myself- you'd think that those peaceful Muslims who reside in these United States would surely have something to say about this.

Perhaps someone should help the cleric along to martyrdom?

 

[JEV]

Don't let your head swim with these unanswerable questions. Just buy more ammo. Regarding your sidearm, "Don't leave home without it!"

 

[RobsanX]

The word is this cleric had a hand in planning the Christmas Day bombing. A group of Detroit Muslims did travel to New York to protest the terrorist act.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/christmas_day_bomber_to_be_arraigned_Ky5FfaM7t5a9VXOyLO8UIM

 

[SShepherd]

About 50 men and women identifying themselves as Detroit-area Muslims chanted “We are Americans” as they marched behind metal barricades outside the courthouse to denounce terrorism. About a dozen of them carried U.S. flags or signs with messages such as “Not in the name of Islam.”


out of how many in the US ? Seems to me if tey were worried about being cast in the same light as the "radical isalmists" more would be speaking out louder.

 

[mak2]

About 50 men and women identifying themselves as Detroit-area Muslims chanted “We are Americans” as they marched behind metal barricades outside the courthouse to denounce terrorism. About a dozen of them carried U.S. flags or signs with messages such as “Not in the name of Islam.”


out of how many in the US ? Seems to me if tey were worried about being cast in the same light as the "radical isalmists" more would be speaking out louder.

have you protested against the Westboro Church's funeral protest?

 

[Big Dog]

have you protested against the Westboro Church's funeral protest?

That's not what the thread is about and is totally unrelated.

 

[Dargo]

The word is this cleric had a hand in planning the Christmas Day bombing. A group of Detroit Muslims did travel to New York to protest the terrorist act.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/christmas_day_bomber_to_be_arraigned_Ky5FfaM7t5a9VXOyLO8UIM

From your article:

About 50 men and women identifying themselves as Detroit-area Muslims chanted “We are Americans” as they marched behind metal barricades outside the courthouse to denounce terrorism. About a dozen of them carried U.S. flags or signs with messages such as “Not in the name of Islam.”

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nation...rraigned_Ky5FfaM7t5a9VXOyLO8UIM#ixzz0orXVKlx8


If you don't see a problem with only "about 50 Muslims" protesting this, you clearly do not have a very good grasp of the problem we face. That article you posted was extremely lame at best in defense of Muslims protesting radical 'clerics' who call for the killing of Americans.

 

[jimbo]

Rob and Mak have a point. 50 is more than none, and is a step in the right direction. Hopefully more will follow. The Westboro group seem to have Virginia as a target at present. Were around for a few anti something protests in Richmond. They protested at a soldiers funeral, and the father lost a suit. Protested at Morgan Harrington's funeral, blaming her lifestyle for her death. Now it's Yeardly, the slain Lacrosse player

I have never said that either the right or left has a monopoly on nuts. The farther right or left, the more the ridiculous the argument.

 

[mak2]

That's not what the thread is about and is totally unrelated.

It is exactly what the thead is about. Just something you did not want to hear.

 

[Dargo]

have you protested against the Westboro Church's funeral protest?

Not that it has absolutely anything to do with the price of tea in China, yes, I have protested the disgusting bastards when they came to my hometown and disrupted the funeral of a 19 year old service member who was killed in action.

I even had a police officer in riot gear tell me that if one of the Westboro people do as much as spit on me that he'd testify in court that I pounded them into the ground with his night stick in self defense. He unsnapped the strap holding his stick in place and assured me that I'd have plenty of support by the officers in court. Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on how you view it, the Westboro ass moved away.

I do feel compelled to point out that the number of members of this so called "church" represent about 1:10,000th or less than the number of Muslims in this country. Therefore, I fail to see even a remote connection between the two.

 

[Dargo]

It is exactly what the thead is about. Just something you did not want to hear.

Wait a minute; you don't care to hear that the Muslims in this country don't care enough to speak out against one of their "leaders" calling for all Muslims to kill Americans?! You cannot be serious!

I take your comment as an insult to every service member killed in the service of our country and every member of their families who lost a loved one to keep our country free. I honestly expect more than hatred of your country from you. Do you despise our country that much??

 

[mak2]

Well if you cant see the connection of us protesting against the misbehavior of our fellow Christians and Muslims protesting against the misbehavior of their fellow muslims, I am not sure I can explain it.

 

[mak2]

Wait a minute; you don't care to hear that the Muslims in this country don't care enough to speak out against one of their "leaders" calling for all Muslims to kill Americans?! You cannot be serious!

I take your comment as an insult to every service member killed in the service of our country and every member of their families who lost a loved one to keep our country free. I honestly expect more than hatred of your country from you. Do you despise our country that much??

You are babbling, I dont know what it means.

 

[loboloco]

have you protested against the Westboro Church's funeral protest?

Facetious argument. Widespread condemnation of the actions of this obviously lunatic group.
From the Islamics, only a few very muted protests. Only when the majority of Islamic peoples stand up against this type of rhetoric can they be considered a peace loving religion.

 

[mak2]

Facetious argument. Widespread condemnation of the actions of this obviously lunatic group.
From the Islamics, only a few very muted protests. Only when the majority of Islamic peoples stand up against this type of rhetoric can they be considered a peace loving religion.

Humm, I used to think just like you guys about almost everything. So I am really not trying to be a smart ass. What changed my mind about this topic is I have a very good friend here at work who is a very devote Muslim. I dont know if I can say hates them (terrorist), but even discussing them makes her very angry. Almost sick. She could'nt come to work for a while after that Major shot up the Army base. She wasnt faking it, she somehow feels personally responsible for their behavior. I dont know what more she could accomplish by protest.

 

[loboloco]

Humm, I used to think just like you guys about almost everything. So I am really not trying to be a smart ass. What changed my mind about this topic is I have a very good friend here at work who is a very devote Muslim. I dont know if I can say hates them (terrorist), but even discussing them makes her very angry. Almost sick. She could'nt come to work for a while after that Major shot up the Army base. She wasnt faking it, she somehow feels personally responsible for their behavior. I dont know what more she could accomplish by protest.

Very simple. She could, by example, encourage others to do so. If she stands silent, she is complicit. remember, for evil to conquer, it only requires good men to do nothing.

 

[mak2]

How do you know what she does in her church or where ever she goes? From what I see of her and know of her I bet she speaks out about it just as you or I would do at our chruch. Again, why are we holding them to this protest in public standard when we dont ourselves?

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

Very simple. She could, by example, encourage others to do so. If she stands silent, she is complicit. remember, for evil to conquer, it only requires good men to do nothing.

+1

 

[loboloco]

How do you know what she does in her church or where ever she goes? From what I see of her and know of her I bet she speaks out about it just as you or I would do at our chruch. Again, why are we holding them to this protest in public standard when we dont ourselves?

We do so. As I said, there has been widespread condemnation of the action of the Westbury group. Has she written articles to the papers expressing her disgust? Has she joined groups of other Islamics in open vigils? Probably not.
The thing you miss is that we as a people, tolerate behavior we disapprove of. In Islam, that tolerance does not exist.

 

[jpr62902]

I understand your analogy, mak2, but the Westboro Baptist church isn't lopping off the heads of nonbelievers, planting bombs on trains\Times Square\in shopping malls, etc., or flying planes into the World Trade Center.

That said, it's good to read some Muslims are taking an overt stand against the lunatic fringe of their faith. An action that takes a great deal of courage, given the lengths to which the Muslim nutjobs will go in furtherance of their twisted understanding of Islam.

 

[mak2]

We do so. As I said, there has been widespread condemnation of the action of the Westbury group. Has she written articles to the papers expressing her disgust? Has she joined groups of other Islamics in open vigils? Probably not.
The thing you miss is that we as a people, tolerate behavior we disapprove of. In Islam, that tolerance does not exist.

Ok I give. They should be out in the streets protesting too, our they are as good as terrorist themselves.

I dunno, you guys dont sound too tolerant to me. Do you every really hear what you are saying?

 

[loboloco]

Mak, do you read what you say?
Sometimes I wonder.

 

[mak2]

Mak, do you read what you say?
Sometimes I wonder.

maybe not, but really, where is the flaw in my logic. I dont think we should hold an entire religion responsible for the actions of a few, then hold them to a standard we dont hold ourselves to. Just sayin.

 

[Dargo]

Humm, I used to think just like you guys about almost everything. So I am really not trying to be a smart ass. What changed my mind about this topic is I have a very good friend here at work who is a very devote Muslim. I dont know if I can say hates them (terrorist), but even discussing them makes her very angry. Almost sick. She could'nt come to work for a while after that Major shot up the Army base. She wasnt faking it, she somehow feels personally responsible for their behavior. I dont know what more she could accomplish by protest.

Yeah, babbling. Back at you. Now you know what I mean?

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

maybe not, but really, where is the flaw in my logic. I dont think we should hold an entire religion responsible for the actions of a few, then hold them to a standard we dont hold ourselves to. Just sayin.

I think the standards you are using to compare are not equal - not even close.

 

[loboloco]

maybe not, but really, where is the flaw in my logic. I dont think we should hold an entire religion responsible for the actions of a few, then hold them to a standard we dont hold ourselves to. Just sayin.

So, you compare a basically peaceful, but very unpopular group to a bunch of murderous lunatics, whom very few in their religion or culture will condemn.
Really rational argument. We hold them to the standard we hold for ourselves. If you believe something is wrong, say so. Make an attempt to curb the more dangerous among you. We, as a people, do make the attempt to do so. We distinguish between unsavory ideas, and barbaric action or the calls for it.
It is legal in the U.S. to believe in human sacrifice. It is not legal or acceptable to practice or openly advocate it.
WE do not believe it is right to force a person to join a religion or be executed.
We do not believe that murdering civilians knowingly and willfully is acceptable, and condemn such actions.
When the Islamics stand up and do so, I will be quite willing to converse with them. Until then, I will consider them barbarians incapable of having a place in a decent society.
Study Sharia law sometime.

 

[Dargo]

I dont think we should hold an entire religion responsible for the actions of a few, then hold them to a standard we dont hold ourselves to. Just sayin.

So, you support Westboro? Based on your logic, you must. After all, you can't judge an entire religion on the few you see. Perhaps that's why you have a problem that I have in fact protested, up and very close, them demeaning and disrespecting a fallen soldier I knew.

 

[mak2]

I understand your analogy, mak2, but the Westboro Baptist church isn't lopping off the heads of nonbelievers, planting bombs on trainsTimes Squarein shopping malls, etc., or flying planes into the World Trade Center.

That said, it's good to read some Muslims are taking an overt stand against the lunatic fringe of their faith. An action that takes a great deal of courage, given the lengths to which the Muslim nutjobs will go in furtherance of their twisted understanding of Islam.

I did not see this one till now. I do think part of it might be cultural, the person I was talking about could get stoned (not the good kind) for protesting where she is from. I just think we ought to be care being so judgemental.

 

[mak2]

So, you support Westboro? Based on your logic, you must. After all, you can't judge an entire religion on the few you see. Perhaps that's why you have a problem that I have in fact protested, up and very close, them demeaning and disrespecting a fallen soldier I knew.

Dont be silly. I have said often the Westboro bunch just need a good ass whippin, but not all Christians do. You are attempting to create a straw man. Stop it.