"Stoopid" handcuffs donated to the Smithsonian

[Bulldog1401]

Actually, the officer was trying to leave, when Gates kept berating him. After multiple warnings, Gates was arrested. The cop didn't ask Gates to, "come on outside so I can arrest you."

Actually yes, and if you read the account above, what right did the officer have to arrest the owner of the house? The police no longer had probably cause, so why did the police officer insist the prof come outside to be arrested? It really bothers me people dont understand this.

I wasn't there, so I am going on the Wikipedia quote from above.
It seems that what happened is a black man was reported as breaking into the house. Officer arrives, interviews the witness, gets a description of the suspect. Goes to the residence, encounters a person who resembles the suspect inside the residence, who will not identify himself. Officer enters, and confronts suspect (as he should) who then wises up a little, and identifies himself. (risk of a burglary is over at this point) He then continually asks the officers name. Officer tells him his name, and attempts to leave, with homeowner (no longer a suspect) yelling at him. Officer leaves residence (onto front porch) and is still being yelled art in a manner that tends to cause public alarm.
Homeowner is told to quit yelling (several times) but continues creating public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm. (he is yelling out his door, into the street at this point, which would disturb the public, not confining his rant to his own dwelling). Home owner is arrested for disorderly conduct (disturbing the peace).
No problem.


People who have loud parties or music that spills out into the street at an unreasonable level are also commonly arrested for disorderly conduct.

People forget that they don't have the right to infringe on everybody elses just to preserve their own.

 

[EastTexFrank]

If I am not mistaken it is not against the law to be a jerk. He did not appear to be a danger to himself or others. Really, why are you arguing the point?

I think it's because the majority of people believe, that in a civilized society, there are standards of behavior that should be observed. You're right, it's not against the law to be a jerk but it can be against the law, in certain circumstances, to ACT like a jerk and that is what it seems he was doing. If I remember correctly, he was charged with "disorderly conduct" which would seem to fit the situation very well.

 

[mak2]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates2.html

This is a copy of the police report in the polices words. I thought at the time at least the PD and the police officer were honest. At worst the police officer directed the man to go outside yelling, there by causing Gates to commit the offense.

this is the same fourm that thinks a guy intentionally inciting border gaurds to arrest him is a hero, I dont get it.

 

[Doc]

If I am not mistaken it is not against the law to be a jerk. He did not appear to be a danger to himself or others. Really, why are you arguing the point?

If it is not against the law to be a jerk then why was Gates arrested? He was being disorderly. He should have thanked the police for checking into the possible break in and been done with it. Instead he choose to act like a jerk. He deserved to get arrested. The police were not in the wrong. I do not see that any of his rights were abused.

I suspect had he been civil with the police, showed his ID, thanked them for coming out that would have been the end of it. Gates obviously had an agenda. For his handcuffs to go in the Smithsonian is simply wrong from my point of view.

 

[Bulldog1401]

The report in that ling stated that the officer gave the requested info and left the residence, telling him that, in substance, if he wanted to speak further, he could do it outside.

Gates then walked his dumbass out onto the porch and began yelling at the officers and shouting at the crowd. Hello!!!!

If he had a complaint to make, he should have stayed in his residence, and telephoned the police department to file it. He wouldn't have gotten arrested.

 

[mak2]

I am not, have not defended Gates. I am talking only about our rights.

Doc, you are not getting it. You dont have to be a nice guy in your own home. When the police officer seen the ID and knew Gates was the owner it was time for him to leave. Gates was not blocking the police officers egress and if he in any way interfered with the police office arrest him. Not call Gates out to the porch so he could arrest him for an offense he was not committing before following the police's instructions. You guys are funny. Me or you or anybody else would have said thanks for coming by, like a cup of coffee etc. But we are not required by law to. I wonder if even the chinese can arrest their citizens for rudness.

 

[mak2]

The report in that ling stated that the officer gave the requested info and left the residence, telling him that, in substance, if he wanted to speak further, he could do it outside.

Gates then walked his dumbass out onto the porch and began yelling at the officers and shouting at the crowd. Hello!!!!

If he had a complaint to make, he should have stayed in his residence, and telephoned the police department to file it. He wouldn't have gotten arrested.

The officer said he wanted gates to go outiside so he could talk on his radio. Had the officer just left he not have been arrested either.

 

[Doc]

I get it. Being rude is one thing. He was more than rude. Police had business in his home. Once the neighbor reported a possible break in. Gates did not have to be nice, and could be rude. No problem. Gates was outraged. He tossed out the race card before he had a clue what was going on. He got the publicity he wanted. Then he got to have a beer with the President. I'm sure he could not have planned it but given all that if the same event happened again, I suspect he would act the same way. I think he was wrong. Police are paid to protect us all. You can be rude to them, but you also need to be smart enough to know when enough is enough. Gates pushed it.
The police were doing their job as they are paid to do.
Lets say you were doing your job and someone who is not happy with what you did and they start screaming at you. You walk away. They follow and continue screaming at you. You keep walking. They continue screaming and following you. Would that be okay by you? You did nothing wrong but no one can please everyone all the time. At what point does it become abuse?

 

[mak2]

The police no longer had buisness in his home.
outrage and the race card can get you arrested?

I am an RN and often work in the ER. Yes, I walk away, I am a professional. Stoners, drug seekers and plain idiots come in all the time. I handle it professionally every time.

The police officer told him to go outside, by the police's own words to use his radio. What you describe is exactly what the Police office should have done, walk away. Byhis own account he did not. Yet you use what he didnt do as an example. Just once you guys admit you are wrong, even if it is on of Obamas friends.

 

[RedRocker]

Now Al, I don't want you to faint, so you might sit down if you're not already.
I agree with you on the history thing, we should have history and it should include
all things of historic significance no matter what or who. For some reason we have
always singled out "black" for a lot of things, even where I work in the name of inclusiveness they have a black group, Mexican group etc. Doesn't make sense to bring us all together by separating us by race. History books should be rewritten to
include everybody and ditch the exclusiveness bullshit so we can move on.

 

[Cowboy]

Smelled fishy to me from the get go . A passer by not a neighbor called it in ?

I Beleive if I was the cop I would have checked with the neighbors first then ASSUME some nosey dumbass with a cell phone aint making some phoney report .

Worked out good for all though I recon , Both got to Meet & drink beer with the president , Plenty a Publicity & The Offending handcuffs are now in a museum . Hell They,ll problly both write a book about it , Maybe even a movie . Damn near sounds like a publicity stunt to me but then again I dont trust nobody .

Damn sure guarantee Ya if it happened to me out here , It wouldn,t have worked out so good for the cop coming on my property & asking ME for identification because some nosy asshole called in a bogus report . But then again I,m fairlly secluded , as well as a lil different then most folks .

 

[RedRocker]

If a cop came to my house under those circumstances I'd show him my ID and answer his questions. Thank him for keeping an eye on my home, then find the neighbor and thank them for keeping an eye on my home. But that's just me.

 

[mak2]

My point is you dont have to. I am sure we all would, but your home is your castle and should be treated as such by law enforcement. even if it is someone you disagree with politically.

 

[Doc]

When was his home not treated like his castle? Once they saw he was the owner nothing was done against him in any way.

 

[mak2]

When was his home not treated like his castle? Once they saw he was the owner nothing was done against him in any way.

Except for calling him outside and arresting him.

 

[RedRocker]

Your home is your castle, but the cop didn't know it was his home, the information he had was a break-in in progress. The professor is a "victim" with a chip on his shoulder and acted like an asshole. I occasionally bump in to a cop or two and never have a problem, maybe it's because I like cops. Having been a long haired "hippy" "biker" type, you can believe me I've been screwed over by the Man!! LOL I grew out of it though and have a deep appreciation for the shit those guys deal with every day.

 

[fogtender]

There isn't a thing wrong with remembering and documenting black history Al and the racism that was involved.
It's something that was ugly and ran deep in this country for decades.
Some would like to say it still exists, but it doesn't now, at least not like then, and THEN should be forgotten once and for all, when it comes down to things like donating handcuffs to a museum because of what happened to Gates.
STUPID!

I know that whites get all the blame for the Black Slave trade, but what most never pay any attention to is that the the African Blacks hunted down their neighbors and sold them to the slave traders.

It wasn't "Just" a white thing, everyone has had a hand in it. Slavery is still ongoing in many dark parts of the world which is largely ignored because it makes everyone look at themselves.

 

[Cowboy]

If a cop came to my house under those circumstances I'd show him my ID and answer his questions. Thank him for keeping an eye on my home, then find the neighbor and thank them for keeping an eye on my home. But that's just me.

No argument there Red , Most folks would agree as well . But from my understanding it wasn,t a neighbor who reported it . I would think a neighbor would no the difference between the person thats supposed to be there or not .

That was My main point , It might have been avoided if the officer would have maybe contacted a neighbor first to see if they thought anything seemed suspicious . But thats just me .

Like I said I,m a lot different & in a total different situation from most folks . I do not expect nor want anyone to watch out for our property . Neighbors , cops , fire department or no one else . But I also haven,t left the property for going on 8 years ( OK i,m really different ) & I,m not concerned in the least about My familys safety when they are on the property . I,m not a fanatic , I just have been taught its my job to take care of my own & never count on anyone else .

Just seems odd to me also that the topic of this thread is about the handcuffs he was arrested in , are now in a museum . I,ve been sick of hearing about it since it happened .


IMO the problem started was by Someone that Obviouslly was not from or belonged in the neighborhood calling a report in that suspicious activity was going on . Guess its just me , But where I come from if something dont look right you at least make damn sure you know whats going on before jumping to conclusions . There was no crime period , no one was ever in danger as far as I know .

Just some nosey sumbitch that as far as i know has never come forward that they made the call, stickin there nose where it didn,t belong , Thats what pisses me off . With all the cellphones & crap these days . Those kind of Wanna be protectors of all man kind want to stick their nose where it dont belong .

I,m just sayin . It never should have come to this . I,m not taking away from the cop doing his job , But at the same time I can kind of understand the guy that just got back to his home & had to go through all the BS .

If some of you were in the same situation & it was your home on your property & you were sudenlly approached by a cop demanding ID because some one thought you were breaking into your own home just from some anonymous phone call .

Its hard for me to beleive from all opinions I,ve read here . You wouldn,t at least be pissed off & by the way some of you get heated up talking about stuff I cant beleive I,m the only one that would be pissed & not reacted in the same way .

Sorry , it just pisses me off . One minute Ya,ll are about rights being taken away & the next minute it depends the situation & in this case color of both folks involved & the handcuffs going to the museum is your biggest concerns .


Once again just My opinion , Sorry but Thats why I am the way I am these days

 

[grizzer]

Here’s hoping Harvard University professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. was kidding when he told the New York Times [NYT] he planned to donate the handcuffs used to shackle him last summer to the Smithsonian Institute’s museum of black history.

Even by his self-serving standards it would be detestable, attempting to wrap himself in the robes of a civil rights martyr, as if he’d been bloodied while marching for justice, rather than arrested for mouthing off to a cop who had ironically come to his rescue

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1233341

Seems even the local paper respects the local cop, racial expert, that trains other cops on racial situations, who locked his radio transmitter on creating a permanent record of what transpired carries more weight.

Maybe if the good Dr. Gates would associate with radical Islamic jihaddists, more acceptance and a nice White House job would be waiting.

 

[Bulldog1401]

The police officer told him to go outside, by the police's own words to use his radio.

Can you quote that sentence in any of the sources? Each one I read stated that the officer walked outside so he could use his radio, and the suspect continued to ask him questions that the officer had already answered (his name). The officer told him in substance that anyfurther conversations could occur out side. The suspect didn't have to continue asking questions that had already been answered. He chose to follow the officer outwside and continue his tirade. That is where his behavior crossed the line, and he was arrested.

Unless I am mistaken, I didn't read anything coming from the officer even like " go out on the porch now" or "come outside, I dare you"

If you are going to read this report literally, it is very clear what happened. If you try to read an opinion into it, you "wont get it."

 

[Glink]

Bulldog is there any legal distinction from him being in his house versus on the porch?

Just asking; don't really have an opinion, just following the thread.

 

[JEV]

I marvel at the mentality of liberals (many who were hippies in the 60's and never grew out of it or smoked their gray matter with too much Mary Jane and LSD) who automatically figure every cop is a racist, and every black is a victim, even in light of the facts being placed on the table. Smells like reverse discrimination to me.

 

[mak2]

Your home is your castle, but the cop didn't know it was his home, the information he had was a break-in in progress. The professor is a "victim" with a chip on his shoulder and acted like an asshole. I occasionally bump in to a cop or two and never have a problem, maybe it's because I like cops. Having been a long haired "hippy" "biker" type, you can believe me I've been screwed over by the Man!! LOL I grew out of it though and have a deep appreciation for the shit those guys deal with every day.

read the hot link in post #33. The officer told gates he would speak to him outside. He could have just left. He didnt. You people are really ready to give up your rights in your own home? Great.

 

[Bulldog1401]

Bulldog is there any legal distinction from him being in his house versus on the porch?

Just asking; don't really have an opinion, just following the thread.

Whew!! Is that ever a loaded question...

I can only answer relative to the law in NYS.


It is a pretty complicated list of rules that are set forth in the criminal procedure law that govern arrests made inside a residence versus outside, wit or without a warrant.

Very basically the conduct that the person was arrested for occurred outside of the residence in the presence of the officer, and affected or posed a risk of affecting the public. Therefore it was O.K to make the arrest that way.


If the suspect had remained in his home and continued the tirade, and the noise didn't spill outside of the residence, he is in "his castle", and could not have been arrested.

If the noise spilled out onto the street (through an open door or window) then he would have been guilty of an offense and it would then require a warrant to arrest him. (A warrant is not commonly used for this, it is usually a criminal summons, and if he doesn't respond, then a warrant).

If he comes outside onto the porch, commits the offense, and then runs back into his own house, the officer may follow to make the arrest. This is what is know as exigent circumstances. If it is a 3rd persons house, then a search warrant is needed if consent to enter is not given by someone in authority to do so.

It can get kind of tricky. And I didn't cover every detail here.


If the officer orders the suspect outside so that the offense is committed outside, it is entrapment.

This was not done in this case. The officer went outside so that he could hear his radio. The suspect was not compelled to follow for any reason. But did to continue his tirade.

 

[mak2]

So after all that you are saying Gates could not have been arrested inside the house (really), but since the officer said he would talk to him outside, then he arrested him, it is ok?

 

[Bulldog1401]

So after all that you are saying Gates could not have been arrested inside the house (really), but since the officer said he would talk to him outside, then he arrested him, it is ok?

Basically, yes. He willingly brought his criminal conduct outside, and continued it. If he had stayed inside, he would be good to go. If he came outside, and acted like an adult, he would have been good to go.

But he chose to come outside, and disturb the public by yelling at the officer in a manner that did alarm the public, and served no legitimate purpose, which is illegal.

And he got arrested for it.

Funny, sometimes to protect and to serve includes protecting the public from thenselves as a favor to them.

Of course if the person is going to be an asshole and berate an officer for doing his job, then he really doesn't deserve any favors does he?

 

[Doc]

I was under the impression that Gates followed the cop outside yelling / complaining talking crap to the cop. And that Gates was arrested on a public sidewalk. Not on his property.

 

[mak2]

How was getting him to come outside yelling protecting him? It is obvious Gates pissed off the cop, the cop got him to come outside and arrested him. At no point was he violent or threating, just a jerk. But yea, arrest him for it. He doesnt deserve any favors (rights)? He does, maybe people who think he dont are the ones who dont.

 

[SShepherd]

Basically, yes. He willingly brought his criminal conduct outside, and continued it. If he had stayed inside, he would be good to go. If he came outside, and acted like an adult, he would have been good to go.

But he chose to come outside, and disturb the public by yelling at the officer in a manner that did alarm the public, and served no legitimate purpose, which is illegal.

And he got arrested for it.

Funny, sometimes to protect and to serve includes protecting the public from thenselves as a favor to them.

Of course if the person is going to be an asshole and berate an officer for doing his job, then he really doesn't deserve any favors does he?

you're spot on..

I also have a feeling they treated this guy with kid gloves from the begining.

Having worn a badge and a gun, I can tell you I would have givin him 1 warning about disorderly/disturbing the peace- after that he would have been hooked up

 

[mak2]

I was under the impression that Gates followed the cop outside yelling / complaining talking crap to the cop. And that Gates was arrested on a public sidewalk. Not on his property.

NO he was on his porch on his property. The police report is in post #33 (or close.