This is why the Damn Israeli's are killing the kids....

[fogtender]

The Hamas idiots keep launching rockets, mortars and gunfire from houses, schools and Hospitals at them..... So the Israeli Defense Force will level the building as a response to the attack on their citizens... Hope they just level the whole area and start with a new golf course...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHNk6eBw3ME&sdig=1"]YouTube - Precision Airstrikes on Hamas Terror Targets 7 Jan. 2009[/ame]

 

[naturerules1]

There isn't much but POPULATED AREAS in Gaza. And using the population really does not work for a power that does not consider humanitarian violations when they go after their enemy in a WAR.

I like the name....Israeli "DEFENCE" Force. Seems kind of "OFFENSIVE" to me.
They got some pretty safisticated weapons too. Quite the Power to win over anyone they want, thanks to the USA.

We can not forget...Israel, was the first to break the ceasefire that lasted for over 20 weeks, in early Nov 2008. Nothing new for Israel though.

Try a google search.... Israel Breaks Ceasefire and see what I mean.

 

[Bobcat]

Looks like that may have been a pre-emptive strike.

http://www.caymanmama.com/2008/11/0...za-killing-6-hamas-fighters_200811053467.html

Israel breaks truce - attacks Gaza killing 6 Hamas fighters
2008-11-05 22:30:08 (GMT) (Caymanmama.com - World News News)

Gaza Strip (AP): Short lived peace pact, the ceasefire that was agreed between Israel and Palestinian militants broke when the Israeli officers launched an offensive followed by air strike killing 6 Hamas gun men.

The Hamas retaliated by firing 35 rockets into the Israeli territory. According to the reports no one was injured by Hamas rockets that landed in the Southern Israel.

The news report published by ‘The Guardian’ said, “Israeli troops crossed into the Gaza Strip late last night near the town of Deir al-Balah. The Israeli military said the target of the raid was a tunnel that they said Hamas was planning to use to capture Israeli soldiers positioned on the border fence 250m away. Four Israeli soldiers were injured in the operation, two moderately and two lightly, the military said.”

Hamas spokesman, Fawzi Barhoum responding to the Israeli attack said that, “The Israelis began this tension and they must pay an expensive price. They cannot leave us drowning in blood while they sleep soundly in their beds,”

It is learnt that the Israeli defense minister Ehud Barak had personally authorized the attack. Explaining the reason of the attack the Israeli official stated “This was a pinpoint operation intended to prevent an immediate threat. There is no intention to disrupt the ceasefire, rather the purpose of the operation was to remove an immediate and dangerous threat posted by the Hamas terror organization.”

Visit: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians for more details on the above news

In '67 the Egyptians amassed troops and tanks along the Israel border. The Israelis didn't wait to see if the Egyptians were just having a parade. They attacked. Sometimes the best "defense" is a good "offense".

 

[Melensdad]

There isn't much but POPULATED AREAS in Gaza. And using the population really does not work for a power that does not consider humanitarian violations when they go after their enemy in a WAR.

I like the name....Israeli "DEFENCE" Force. Seems kind of "OFFENSIVE" to me.

2 points.

First, how does DEFENSE sound OFFENSIVE to you? I simply do not understand.

Second, it strikes me that Israel is being as careful as possible, despite the heavy civilian population in Gaza, to minimize 'collateral' damage and civilian deaths. Yes, they are destroying houses and some civilians have died. But would not carpet bombing like was common in the world wars be not only more effective but more destructive? I think Israel is really doing an amazing job at keeping the civilian death rate as low as is possible under the circumstances of what amounts to be war inside cities and towns.

Try a google search.... Israel Breaks Ceasefire and see what I mean.

OK I did that. First 3 hits were a press release from:

1- an Anti-Israeli group working under the UN
2- a 'news' site called "electronic Intifada" which is clearly a propaganda website
3- a 'news story' from the World Socialist website​

Not much mainstream reporting at all.

 

[The Tourist]

Like it or not, this is one of those conflicts that will only stop with genocide.

The misconception here is that there is only one faction on each side. If some sect of Israel offers an olive branch they will offend their more radical faction.

If Hamas starts to negotiate another fanatical group will simply feel they sold out.

They must fight to the death.

 

[BoneheadNW]

There isn't much but POPULATED AREAS in Gaza. And using the population really does not work for a power that does not consider humanitarian violations when they go after their enemy in a WAR.

I like the name....Israeli "DEFENCE" Force. Seems kind of "OFFENSIVE" to me.
They got some pretty safisticated weapons too. Quite the Power to win over anyone they want, thanks to the USA.

We can not forget...Israel, was the first to break the ceasefire that lasted for over 20 weeks, in early Nov 2008. Nothing new for Israel though.

Try a google search.... Israel Breaks Ceasefire and see what I mean.

I see that you live somewhere in Alaska. So what would you propose if, say, Canada started indiscriminately launching rockets into your neighborhood? From heavily populated areas no less.
Bonehead

 

[naturerules1]

A ceasefire is a ceasefire...

OK, I know I am outgunned here with a bigger population that wants Iran's oil by means of it's enemies. But believe me, following the sheep this time will put you over a cliff.
This is not a board game, where....We support Israel and Israel takes over all Arab militants, runs short of people so we help and claim Iran in the end!

Israel was a mistake from the beginning, The British did not mean for all the immigrants to come into Palestine and just push out anyone that was not Zionist. It was such a problem, the British threw up their arms and left! So we seen an open door. Really a mistake for us too.

YES, You see on the media daily, "Because Hamas is launching rockets". It was because of over 50 years of chasing out the Palestinians (sometimes by bayonet, see 6 Day WAR) that the Palestinians are so mad. Plus we can add, Shutting down any entry of food, medicines and what is needed to survive, (sometimes weapons are not needed).

Someone asked What if...Not fair...Canada has an Airforce and much better weaponry than Palestine. And I am going to state here also, All nations have the right to ARM THEMSELVES.

NO, reason to Break the Ceasefire! Israel was the one to break the peace. They did not do what they needed to, for an agreement. But that would mean they would have to allow the Palestinians to have a vote in their own homeland. Israel is... removing all Arab vote from their precious RELIGIOUS STATE! That is NO WAY to make a country. Religion can only become the basis for a democratic nation if it does holocaust on the other religions.

Did I forget anything....OH YA, Israel broke the ceasefire FIRST, so how is that wanting peace. AND the death toll is like 1/3 civilian! You think that is GOOD!

I don't think the ZIONIST Israel is after PEACE, They are after LAND! Always have been, always will...and we the USA are giving them the weapons they need to take over all they can. Maybe Iran too with our help ofcourse..wink wink.

OLD PLANS that are absolutely imposible to do. Look at our budget! This plan is a NO GO anymore!

 

[naturerules1]

I see that you live somewhere in Alaska. So what would you propose if, say, Canada started indiscriminately launching rockets into your neighborhood? From heavily populated areas no less.
Bonehead

Um, Israel broke the ceasefire FIRST! It had lasted for over 20 months. From June 2008 till early Nov. 2008 when Israel broke it, with an air assault into Gaza, killing 6.

 

[Melensdad]

Naturerules1, I'm really NOT trying to argue with you but I have no clue what you are saying. You keep saying Israel broke the peace but I can not find any evidence of that. Can you please provide some?

Not sure why you mentioned Iran's oil? What the heck does that have to do with this topic? Nothing!?!

So exactly how did Israel break the cease fire first? Please provide a link to the news story.

And given the type of warfare, how can anyone not expect civilian casualties? The fact that it is reported to be so low shows the Israel is doing a good job of controlling their guns and bombs.

 

[naturerules1]

OK I did that. First 3 hits were a press release from:

1- an Anti-Israeli group working under the UN
2- a 'news' site called "electronic Intifada" which is clearly a propaganda website
3- a 'news story' from the World Socialist website
​

Not much mainstream reporting at all.

You may have to look harder but I guarantee you it is there and it is real!
If I show you a site with Arabs words on it you will think it is bias. If I show you a site with the Jewish Star on it, it will be buried in one paragraph. But it is there and you can find it. Israel, in early NOV. 2008 broke the ceasefire and the American media will not say it!
That leaves you to call anyone that covered it as socialist, propagandist, or Anti Israel! IT did happen and if anyone cares, really....They will find IT was covered in some way by ALL networks. "Israel breaks Ceasefire"

 

[Melensdad]

Well I just went through 5 pages of 'google' results and can find NOTHING to substantiate your claims except from obviously biased sources. Not one 'news' story from any European, Asian, Arab or American news service. Some editorials from left wing bloggers were found, but those were OPINION pieces and were clearly just anti-Israel rants.

But I can't find news reports.

Please provide some evidence other than your word. I clearly don't have the answers. I'm looking for something to substantiate your words.

I've tried many different google searches on this topic. Not one search supports your claims.

 

[Melensdad]

Um, Israel broke the ceasefire FIRST! It had lasted for over 20 months. From June 2008 till early Nov. 2008 when Israel broke it, with an air assault into Gaza, killing 6.

For whatever it is worth, I am finding a lot of news reports of Hamas Missile attacks occurring during the year of 2008 with deaths of Israeli civilians dating back to at least February of 2008 and continuing with attacks and sporatic deaths all year. If there was a 20 month cease fire then when did it start? Obviously Hamas did not honor any cease fire during the year of 2008.

 

[naturerules1]

Blind eyes make for good support for Israel!

There was a ceasefire, from June 2008 till early Nov. 2008 where Israel broke it with an air assult on Gaza.

Israel has been lieing, does that make you wonder about the facts?

CNN good enough for you? [ame="http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=-pTX4d6B6_k"]YouTube - CNN: Who really broke the cease-fire Israel or Hamas[/ame]

Israel was the first to kill someone during the ceasefire [ame="http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=SILJxPTqjAM"]YouTube - Who Broke The Cease Fire - Hamas or Israel 2008[/ame]

Another easy search in youtube http://mx.youtube.com/results?search_query=Israel+broke+ceasefire+news&search_type=&aq=f

 

[Melensdad]

Its interesting that the report you presented does confirm that in NOVEMBER it was Israel who killed "6 Palestinian gunmen" in the Gaza strip who were digging tunnels. Interesting also is that the term 'gunmen' came from multiple news sources OUTSIDE of both Israel and Gaza. So that term is probably accurate.

Now I will not dispute that Israel killed those 6 'gunmen' in Gaza. And I'd have to say that if 6 guys were digging a tunnel under my property with the intent (as per the news story you provided) to kidnap people on my property then I would probably meet them with force.

What would you do?

But can you dispute that Hamas launched roughly 1000 rockets into Israel over the course of 2008?

 

[BoneheadNW]

Nature still has not answered my question: What would you do if someone in a neighboring country started launching rockets into your county? Forget the Alaska/Canada analogy. What would you do?
Bonehead

 

[naturerules1]

Its interesting that the report you presented does confirm that in NOVEMBER it was Israel who killed "6 Palestinian gunmen" in the Gaza strip who were digging tunnels. Interesting also is that the term 'gunmen' came from multiple news sources OUTSIDE of both Israel and Gaza. So that term is probably accurate.

Now I will not dispute that Israel killed those 6 'gunmen' in Gaza. And I'd have to say that if 6 guys were digging a tunnel under my property with the intent (as per the news story you provided) to kidnap people on my property then I would probably meet them with force.

What would you do?

But can you dispute that Hamas launched roughly 1000 rockets into Israel over the course of 2008?

So, you can admit Israel broke the ceasefire FIRST!

Ceasefire is ceasefire, it was an air assault in Gaza, not in Israel.

Do you expect the Palestinians just lay down and die as they were from lack of medical supplies and food (which was part of the ceasefire that they be able to get it), over 100 Palestinians died because of the lack of medical supplies in Gaza during the ceasefire because Israel denied the entry of that humanitarian supplies, Even rammed a UN ship with humanitarian aid!

 

[Galvatron]

Nature still has not answered my question: What would you do if someone in a neighboring country started launching rockets into your county? Forget the Alaska/Canada analogy. What would you do?
Bonehead

I can answer clear and simple......

If my neighbor started dropping stuff over the garden fence that could and would harm me and my family without a doubt i would go round and kick his ass into next week.....i would be sure to use force to the limit he would never think of doing it again.

And trust me i have done before and as a leader i would do it for sure.

 

[naturerules1]

Nature still has not answered my question: What would you do if someone in a neighboring country started launching rockets into your county? Forget the Alaska/Canada analogy. What would you do?
Bonehead

I would demand a meeting with the people doing the assults. TO try to find peace or ceasefire.
The problem is though, Hamas did not "start" the launching of rockets after the ceasefire was honored till, Israel broke the ceasefire with an air assult. BEsides, Israel has been deniying medicine and food to Gaza which killed many civilians, Sometimes you do not need weapons to kill off a people.
The allowance for medical supplies, food and trade was in the ceasefire agreement and Both Israel and Palestine agreed to it. Palestine followed it and Israel broke it! In 2 ways, they blocked the entries and bombed and killed people (on our election day).

 

[Melensdad]

So, you can admit Israel broke the ceasefire FIRST!

To that I am not sure.

Looking at the report you provided, 6 gunmen were apparently in a tunnel under the Israeli border digging toward Israel. While these gunmen were not firing shots, they were clearly up to no good. I'd have to suggest that their actions were in violation of any mutual non-aggression pact. All Israel did was go and stop them before they committed any kidnapping, etc. So it seems to me that Israel simply defended itself from attack.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not anti-Palestine. I do think they are in dire straights. But it seems clear to me that they are going about things all wrong.

 

[naturerules1]

I can answer clear and simple......

If my neighbor started dropping stuff over the garden fence that could and would harm me and my family without a doubt i would go round and kick his ass into next week.....i would be sure to use force to the limit he would never think of doing it again.

And trust me i have done before and as a leader i would do it for sure.

So you support Palestine for trying to kick Israels ass?
Israel sent bombs into Gaza, during an honored ceasefire. They also blocked entry of medical supplies and food (which was also a part of the ceasefire agreement to keep open) which killed many civilians, You know...people's familys, women and children.

 

[naturerules1]

To that I am not sure.

Looking at the report you provided, 6 gunmen were apparently in a tunnel under the Israeli border digging toward Israel. While these gunmen were not firing shots, they were clearly up to no good. I'd have to suggest that their actions were in violation of any mutual non-aggression pact. All Israel did was go and stop them before they committed any kidnapping, etc. So it seems to me that Israel simply defended itself from attack.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not anti-Palestine. I do think they are in dire straights. But it seems clear to me that they are going about things all wrong.

You got to wonder why Israel is saying Palestine broke the ceasefire with rockets, don't you?
I think the bombing was in Gaza. Not in Israel, That leaves alittle space from being under Israel.

 

[Galvatron]

So you support Palestine for trying to kick Israels ass!
Israel sent bombs into Gaza, during an honored ceasefire. They also blocked entry of medical supplies and food (which was also a part of the ceasefire agreement to keep open).

I dont support anyone has this aint my War....which side threw the first stone i do not know and will maybe never know.....i only state what i would do if my neighbor threw stuff in my garden that could harm my family.....

but i do find interesting the fact Gaza residents want medical supplies and food from the people they seem to get on the least with how odd

 

[Melensdad]

Israel sent bombs into Gaza, during an honored ceasefire.

Israel may have sent in some troops to stop the 6 Hamas gunmen from crossing its border, but that was, apparently the action that was considered the breaking of the ceasefire (based on the report you provided). Obviously Israel would not have done that if the 6 gunmen were not provoking them. So there is plenty of blame to go around and it is clear that Hamas is NOT innocent in this matter.

Again, I'm not saying Israel is 100% justified in everything they do. I'm also not saying that the Palestinians are 100% guilty of everything.

But if you are coming onto my property, and bringing guns with evil intent, then you have to expect to be fired upon, with overwhelming force.

 

[RNE228]

Not in particular about this thread, but media in general; The mainstream media is not biased?

The googling I did showed IDF attacking Hamas, because they suspected they were going to plant a bomb.

These two threads got me to do some searches. It appears things were going ok over there, even after the British and League of Nations decided to establish a new nation.

It appears, most of this stuff traces back to when Israel started expanding its boarders and pushing Palestine and others around in 1948 and after. Then there are examples like the illegal settlements.

If the Brit's had not drawn new lines in the sand around WWI timeframe, there would be no "state" of Israel. Nor problems(well, probably not nearly as many; the area has been in turmoil forever). If Israel had not expanded it's borders; ie taking other people/nations lands, probably not too many problems.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I don't condone what Israel or Hamas/Palastine is doing. I don't support either one.

Having done even some minor web searching on the basic history of those countries, back to the 1880's or so, has brought me more understanding of what is happening over there for sure.

Well I just went through 5 pages of 'google' results and can find NOTHING to substantiate your claims except from obviously biased sources. Not one 'news' story from any European, Asian, Arab or American news service.

 

[RNE228]

What would you do?

What did we(US) do?

"We" landed at Plymouth Rock. Things went ok for a while, but then we liked the land the Natives lived on. So we took it, and continued to expand. The Natives were pushed out of the way, or killed. We wanted more land, gold, etc so we pushed them out of the way. Finally, we decided to put them on some small area's of land, that may or may not be useful. We broke treaties. They made raids from the reservations, because they wanted their land and way of life back.

We, had a better equipped military with bigger guns, bigger artillery. The Natives, had some small weapons, but were not overly effect against us except a couple times by chance.

So Israel is like us back then. And Palestine is like the Natives back then. Israel keeps pushing them, expanding, taking parts of their reservation because it has land, minerals etc that they want.

Gaza is bigger than any of the Reservations here, and more developed.

The instances are not exactly the same, but share a lot of similarities.

 

[naturerules1]

But if you are coming onto my property, and bringing guns with evil intent, then you have to expect to be fired upon, with overwhelming force.

But that is exactly what Israel did to what was Palestine. The land they now consider Israel. The League of Nations, Now the UN, made a mistake GIVING the land to the Zionists without some payment to the people that occupied the land. There are UN resolutions AGAINST Israel to allow "right of return" and restitution to the Palestinians along with the Jews that were exiled. Israel ignores it all because they have the USA on their side.

 

[naturerules1]

What did we(US) do?

"We" landed at Plymouth Rock. Things went ok for a while, but then we liked the land the Natives lived on. So we took it, and continued to expand. The Natives were pushed out of the way, or killed. We wanted more land, gold, etc so we pushed them out of the way. Finally, we decided to put them on some small area's of land, that may or may not be useful. We broke treaties. They made raids from the reservations, because they wanted their land and way of life back.

We, had a better equipped military with bigger guns, bigger artillery. The Natives, had some small weapons, but were not overly effect against us except a couple times by chance.

So Israel is like us back then. And Palestine is like the Natives back then. Israel keeps pushing them, expanding, taking parts of their reservation because it has land, minerals etc that they want.

Gaza is bigger than any of the Reservations here, and more developed.

The instances are not exactly the same, but share a lot of similarities.

That's about it! Palestinians are dieing just like the Natives too, and it still is not right! But is happening TODAY!

 

[naturerules1]

I dont support anyone has this aint my War....which side threw the first stone i do not know and will maybe never know.....i only state what i would do if my neighbor threw stuff in my garden that could harm my family.....

but i do find interesting the fact Gaza residents want medical supplies and food from the people they seem to get on the least with how odd

The food, medical supplies and support needed to survive is not from Israel, but is blocked by Israel. We the USA are actually trying to supply Gaza with almost 2 billion dollars of humanitarian aid, that Israel is blocking...along with free press coverage.
Plus, it is "our war", Because of AIPAC, the largest lobbyist group in America, we supply Israel with money and weapons at the cost of Billions to US taxpayers. This is why Arabs hate the US so much.

 

[daedong]

Good posts Robert, rep points coming your way.

 

[Melensdad]

But that is exactly what Israel did to what was Palestine. The land they now consider Israel. The League of Nations, Now the UN, made a mistake GIVING the land to the Zionists without some payment to the people that occupied the land. . .

OK but that was 50+ years ago.

I thought we were taking about CURRENT events. If the League of Nations, and now the UN did things in accord with international law, then why is Hamas shooting missiles NOW?