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What federal programs should be scrapped?
- Thread starter bczoom
- Start date
Dargo
Like a bad penny...
I think a lot of our foreign aid programs need to be re-visited. With us funding the UN, most all of the Iraq war, billions in Afghanistan etc., etc., and our deficit growing, I'm really beginning to not want to spend my dollars to help others before we help ourselves. I have no problem helping others except when I have to borrow money to do so. If helping others is going to put my own family in bankruptcy, I just feel that I owe it to my family to help them first. I just feel that we need to help ourselves and the needy in our own country before we go helping everyone else in the world and appointing ourselves as the world police force. Quite honestly, I don't want to pay my tax dollars to be the world police force either, but that's a different matter.
PBS & NPR, both are under the umbrella of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, which is actually the entity that gets the money from the government.
Congressional & Senate retirement programs that are a substitute for Social Security. Let them get their paychecks with the F.I.C.A. deductions like the rest of us, and let them get the same benifits/restrictions upon retirement.
Congressional & Senate retirement programs that are a substitute for Social Security. Let them get their paychecks with the F.I.C.A. deductions like the rest of us, and let them get the same benifits/restrictions upon retirement.
Cityboy
Banned
NEA - National Endowment for the Arts.
Department of Education. What good has it done thus far?
Not sure the name of the program, but the recipiants call the money "crazy checks". A program funded from Social Security taxes that pays people with mental disabilities in addition to the welfare checks they already get. Saw it on 20/20 years ago.
Just about all foriegn aid, especially all aid to the Middle East that gets used to buy arms and ordnance used in terrorism.
Any welfare that pays females to have more babies.
Housing projects. They are nothing more than a breeding ground for future thugs and drug dealers.
Department of Education. What good has it done thus far?
Not sure the name of the program, but the recipiants call the money "crazy checks". A program funded from Social Security taxes that pays people with mental disabilities in addition to the welfare checks they already get. Saw it on 20/20 years ago.
Just about all foriegn aid, especially all aid to the Middle East that gets used to buy arms and ordnance used in terrorism.
Any welfare that pays females to have more babies.
Housing projects. They are nothing more than a breeding ground for future thugs and drug dealers.
I'm curious how much people think we'd save by scrapping these programs? Take foreign aid, for example. Without looking it up, what percentage of our national budget do you think goes to foreign aid?
a) Less than 1%?
b) About 9%?
c) Close to 24%?
In terms of our Gross National Product (GNP), where do you think the United States ranks among other nations with our foreign aid compared to how much they give?
a) First
b) Somewhere in the Middle
c) Last
Both Republican and Democratic administrations have supported foreign aid over the years. Are there any important benefits to the United States that we would be giving up if we scrapped the program? Do you think we would be better off, or worse off, in terms of our foreign relations? Or to put it another way, are you absolutely sure the program is not worth the money?
If you'd like some of the answers, try the Council on Foreign Relations
I assume this thread is discussing our federal budgeted dollars that come from our tax revenues; to get a more balanced picture of the total amount of foreign giving from the United States, this page from the US State Department is interesting.
a) Less than 1%?
b) About 9%?
c) Close to 24%?
In terms of our Gross National Product (GNP), where do you think the United States ranks among other nations with our foreign aid compared to how much they give?
a) First
b) Somewhere in the Middle
c) Last
Both Republican and Democratic administrations have supported foreign aid over the years. Are there any important benefits to the United States that we would be giving up if we scrapped the program? Do you think we would be better off, or worse off, in terms of our foreign relations? Or to put it another way, are you absolutely sure the program is not worth the money?
If you'd like some of the answers, try the Council on Foreign Relations
I assume this thread is discussing our federal budgeted dollars that come from our tax revenues; to get a more balanced picture of the total amount of foreign giving from the United States, this page from the US State Department is interesting.
Call me silly, but I don't see anything wrong with foreign aid. It helps keep our foreign markets open, it aids in diplomacy, it helps our economy and it helps with our overall safety.
I also don't buy the arguements like "its really just a small %" so it doesn't matter because that is, in fact, the core of the problem! Everyone thinks it doesn't matter!
My main gripes can be divided into 3 sections:
Example of #2 - In my mind, government should not compete with the private sector so even small programs like NPR/PBS, while only adding up to about pennies of your taxes, should not be funded. We have the History Channel, Discovery Channel, HGTV, TLC, etc. Each of those, and many more, proves that the niche markets are viable and do not need government support to succeed. So this is an issue more of principle than of budget.
Example of #3 - Wasting Money: I'm all for a big military budget but I hate the waste in the budget like the wasted $100-MILLION in fully refundable civilian airline tickets purchased by the defense department, but never used, and never refunded!!!
I also don't buy the arguements like "its really just a small %" so it doesn't matter because that is, in fact, the core of the problem! Everyone thinks it doesn't matter!
My main gripes can be divided into 3 sections:
- The govenment spending money foolishly.
- The government spending money on things that it should not spend money on at all.
- The government wasting money.
Example of #2 - In my mind, government should not compete with the private sector so even small programs like NPR/PBS, while only adding up to about pennies of your taxes, should not be funded. We have the History Channel, Discovery Channel, HGTV, TLC, etc. Each of those, and many more, proves that the niche markets are viable and do not need government support to succeed. So this is an issue more of principle than of budget.
Example of #3 - Wasting Money: I'm all for a big military budget but I hate the waste in the budget like the wasted $100-MILLION in fully refundable civilian airline tickets purchased by the defense department, but never used, and never refunded!!!
I say scrap them any and all programs that relate in any way to "social" programs. other than Social Security for retirees over 65. Boost the military, take care of our terrorists once and for all, simplify the tax code with a flat tax, no exemptions for anybody, including churches and non-profits. With all the savings, SS would be fully funded, we could give our seniors a "raise", and end "poverty" of the able able-bodied once and for all. End import and export duties, let the free market be free again. Let the chips fall where they may.
I was poking around on the 'net, looking for various sources that describe the national budget, when I came across an official US Government page about the budget, in a web site run by the US Government Printing Office (GPO). They offer the complete texts of US budgets in detail. One of the things they offered was a citizen's guide to the budget. I looked at those, and noticed that the last one prepared was for 2002, the first full year of the Bush budgetary process. No citizen's guides were prepared for 2003, 04, 05 or 06. I was curious to see what a citizen's guide looked like, so I opened the one for Bush in 2002.
Wow! What the heck happened? Reading through this guide, produced by the federal government in obvious cooperation with the Bush White House, we learn that there really WAS a budget surplus, that it started in 1998 under Clinon, and that Bush was committed to continuing the surplus! It even included a section explaining how government debt and the attendant interest on the debt was a bad thing! How things have changed.
Of course, like the Bush administration, one can argue that it was the 9/11 attack that changed everything. But, that alone cannot account for the total amount of debt we have incurred. What has actually happened is one of the greatest flip-flops in our nation's history, and it's no wonder the administration has not produced any more citizen's guides to the budget!
I'll get back to my research about what makes up a federal budget some other time; at the moment I'm just blown away by what I read in the last citizen's guide ever produced.
Wow! What the heck happened? Reading through this guide, produced by the federal government in obvious cooperation with the Bush White House, we learn that there really WAS a budget surplus, that it started in 1998 under Clinon, and that Bush was committed to continuing the surplus! It even included a section explaining how government debt and the attendant interest on the debt was a bad thing! How things have changed.
Of course, like the Bush administration, one can argue that it was the 9/11 attack that changed everything. But, that alone cannot account for the total amount of debt we have incurred. What has actually happened is one of the greatest flip-flops in our nation's history, and it's no wonder the administration has not produced any more citizen's guides to the budget!
I'll get back to my research about what makes up a federal budget some other time; at the moment I'm just blown away by what I read in the last citizen's guide ever produced.
HarryG
New member
Good point about the tax exempt comment. It irks me to no end all the tax exempt status that is given to every church, reservation, non profit organization, schools, without any true scrunity.
Example: Rev Jesse and his Rainbow Coalition. You know there is a lot of waste and $$$ spent for other purposes. There are so many it boggles the mind.
Example: Rev Jesse and his Rainbow Coalition. You know there is a lot of waste and $$$ spent for other purposes. There are so many it boggles the mind.
AndyM
Charter Member
bczoom said:
Just throwing this out for discussion, but what about having the federal government go back to their responsibilities from the beginning of this country's history?
Printing money and defending the borders (not other country's borders).
Many of the things currently handled by the federal government were handled privately or by state or local entities. I'm certainly not a true libertarian, because I feel there are some things the government needs to be involved in, which goes against everything they stand for. However, I gave more money to various charities last year than I paid in federal income taxes, and I feel the ones I give to do a much better value in helping people than the federal government... just imagine if I could double my contribution! Anything else that isn't privatized, should be moved to the state or local level to remove the extra layers of waste and inefficiency.
I don't normally have the time to get involved back and forth in these discussions, but I thought I'd throw it out anyway, just to see what others have to say...
REDDOGTWO
Unemployed Veg. Peddler
It is common knowledge based upon what I have read that Clinton was leading us onto the road of a budget surplus. If it was not for the fact that he could not keep his pants on, he would have left a good legacy. This overshawdowed a number of the good things that he had done.
In comes Bush with the idea that taxes were to high for him and his buddies and we have to do something about it. He did and now we have problems. I am not saying that he caused the oil shortage, that has been coming on for many years, without anyone doing anything about it. But he and his cronies have caused a lot of the economic problems within this country, unless you are a oil company or a defense contractor in Iraq.
But to get back to the question of what federal programs should be scrapped is any federal program that does not benefit the country as a whole. This does not mean cut the welfare down to zero as with our some of these programs there would be fighting in the streets. We do need some farm programs as without them, we would be vastly undercut by other countries and we should be able to feed ourselfs from what we produce.
We need to cut down on the waste in goverment, should federal pensions be better than the ones in the private sector? Should they have better health insurance? The way that I understand it, the once a person is a senator or representative that the pension that they receive is the same as the salary that they had while in office, this is not right.
We should have a strong defense. However the invasion of Iraq was not in any way a defensive play. It was just someone trying to finish what their daddy did not. Now instead of one enemy in that country we have a good portion of the population against us and this is spawning a whole new wave of terror that we will not see the end of for many years. This war alone has large costs in current and in future costs of treating these veterans.
If you listen to your state senator or represenative from your area, the only programs that are important are the ones that benefit your area. This has to stop. This is pork barrel politics. Cutting out all these add ons to the budget would make a huge dent in the deficit.
By the way, is it ok to talk politics on this forum?
In comes Bush with the idea that taxes were to high for him and his buddies and we have to do something about it. He did and now we have problems. I am not saying that he caused the oil shortage, that has been coming on for many years, without anyone doing anything about it. But he and his cronies have caused a lot of the economic problems within this country, unless you are a oil company or a defense contractor in Iraq.
But to get back to the question of what federal programs should be scrapped is any federal program that does not benefit the country as a whole. This does not mean cut the welfare down to zero as with our some of these programs there would be fighting in the streets. We do need some farm programs as without them, we would be vastly undercut by other countries and we should be able to feed ourselfs from what we produce.
We need to cut down on the waste in goverment, should federal pensions be better than the ones in the private sector? Should they have better health insurance? The way that I understand it, the once a person is a senator or representative that the pension that they receive is the same as the salary that they had while in office, this is not right.
We should have a strong defense. However the invasion of Iraq was not in any way a defensive play. It was just someone trying to finish what their daddy did not. Now instead of one enemy in that country we have a good portion of the population against us and this is spawning a whole new wave of terror that we will not see the end of for many years. This war alone has large costs in current and in future costs of treating these veterans.
If you listen to your state senator or represenative from your area, the only programs that are important are the ones that benefit your area. This has to stop. This is pork barrel politics. Cutting out all these add ons to the budget would make a huge dent in the deficit.
By the way, is it ok to talk politics on this forum?
I'm not sure this is a program, but the automatic withholding of taxes from each paycheck should be stopped immediately. A lot of people I know have no idea how much taxes they pay. I have hear many say they don't pay taxes because they get a refund each year. If they only knew how much they pay, they would be in for a real surprise.
The reason I want all automatic withholding stopped is this: if each month or quarter everyone had to write a check to the government for the taxes we owe, a lot of people would wise up, and would start demanding an accounting of how taxes are spent, which, in my opinion, would lead to an overhaul of the tax system; and would stop our legislatures from spending all the "pork" they get for their favorite projects.
The reason I want all automatic withholding stopped is this: if each month or quarter everyone had to write a check to the government for the taxes we owe, a lot of people would wise up, and would start demanding an accounting of how taxes are spent, which, in my opinion, would lead to an overhaul of the tax system; and would stop our legislatures from spending all the "pork" they get for their favorite projects.
Well, HarryG wanted desperately to be on my "ignore" list, and he's almost made it. I quote from the Bush government's budget as supplied by the the official US Printing office, and he accuses me of a biased, one-sided opinion. Yeah, Harry, right, that's the ticket, just keep those blinders on. Did you bother to read those words by the Bush administration back in 2002 and compare them to the reality today? They're not my words.HarryG said:Well it looks like Dr. Don is getting ready to supply us with another completly biased one sided opinion. Stay tuned for further coverage.
Himself
New member
Federal matching funds for elections. At least half of it is wasted.
$5 for political campaigns checkoff on the 1040 etc. This will not increase your tax or decrease your refund. Miracle money from nowhere? Only in America.
Black budgets. We should know how much is spent on these secret projects, not specifically where it goes but at least how much.
Anything that supports eminent domain.
Most favored trading nation. Whatever happened to Ron Brown?
Mine Safety. They are asleep at the wheel apparently.
FEMA. Also asleep at the wheel. Anyone can react, that's not management, it's reaction.
Country club penetentiaries for white collar crimes. A crime is a crime, incarceration should be incarceration, period.
BLM. Well it's just a few MBF, some fish and a few birds. Once the lumber is cleared maybe we can drill a few holes too. Naw, just leave the overburden pile there, nobody ever comes here anyway.
Enough,
Martin
$5 for political campaigns checkoff on the 1040 etc. This will not increase your tax or decrease your refund. Miracle money from nowhere? Only in America.
Black budgets. We should know how much is spent on these secret projects, not specifically where it goes but at least how much.
Anything that supports eminent domain.
Most favored trading nation. Whatever happened to Ron Brown?
Mine Safety. They are asleep at the wheel apparently.
FEMA. Also asleep at the wheel. Anyone can react, that's not management, it's reaction.
Country club penetentiaries for white collar crimes. A crime is a crime, incarceration should be incarceration, period.
BLM. Well it's just a few MBF, some fish and a few birds. Once the lumber is cleared maybe we can drill a few holes too. Naw, just leave the overburden pile there, nobody ever comes here anyway.
Enough,
Martin
Cityboy
Banned
OkeeDon said:
This is some interesting information, however on page 13 of the citizen's guide is the following:
Chart 2–9. On- and Off-Budget Surplus Projections
Social Security is running large surpluses right now, because payroll
taxes were raised dramatically in the early 1980s and because the relatively
large “baby-boom” generation is big enough to provide the Social Security
benefits provided to the relatively small generation of current retirees. These
surpluses have held down the unified deficit by offsetting part of the deficit in
the on-budget accounts. When the unified budget first booked a surplus of
$69 billion in 1998, the on-budget accounts were still in deficit by $30
billion. In 1999, the unified budget ran a $125 billion surplus, nearly all of
which was the result of the Social Security surplus. The on-budget accounts
were almost exactly in balance. For 2002, $59 billion of the estimated $231
billion surplus comes from the on-budget accounts.
Note that the "surplus" came from adding Social Security funds into the budget. The Social Security budget is supposed to be dedicated to paying the obligations we have committed to pay to our seniors who have paid into the system. Should this money be counted as surplus money? Moving on to 2002, we see that $172 billion of the claimed $231 billion estimated surplus came from the Social Security budget. What is not mentioned here is the money owed by our government to local and foriegn investors who hold our bonds. Did these claimed budget surpluses ever actually come to fruition? You can answer that question for yourselves by examining the data.
It is less than honest to claim the Clinton was the great budget balancer, because he simply was not. He had no intention to balance the budget until 1994 when he was forced to address the issue by a newly elected Republican congress. Again, did the proclaimed surpluses actually come to fruition? No, they did not. The Republican legislature did not balance the budget, nor did Clinton. If any credit is to be given, it must be given to the legislature who actually approves the federal budget, but in reality, neither deserve credit at all. These claimed surpluses are nothing more than semantics.
As to the issue of Bush's spending, he has clearly spent too much and the Republican legislature has allowed him to do so. I'm no supporter of Bush's spending polices, but at the same time, I'm not going to sit back and allow Clinton and the Democrats record to be purported as achieving something they clearly did not. Both sides play games with the budget numbers, so lets make at least an attempt at honesty when discussing how our money is actually spent.