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Toyota changing most of their vehicles to hybrid only starting in 2025?

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bczoom

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Was at the Toyota dealer today looking for a new vehicle.
Told him I didn't want a hybrid.
He said starting with next years models (2025), they're all going to be hybrids.
I saw articles about the Camry being hybrid only but can't find definitive info on their other models.
Anyone know anything about this?
 
Yes, Toyota/Lexus has been on this path, phasing out pure ICE vehicles.

Venza (which is being replaced by a new model under the CROWN label) is also Hybrid only. Crown sedans are already Hybrid only. Rav4 has 2 versions of Hybrid and 1 of ICE but the ICE is going bye-bye.

Pretty sure their phase out of pure ICE engines was announced a few years ago.
 
Melensdad said:
Yes, Toyota/Lexus has been on this path, phasing out pure ICE vehicles.

Venza (which is being replaced by a new model under the CROWN label) is also Hybrid only. Crown sedans are already Hybrid only. Rav4 has 2 versions of Hybrid and 1 of ICE but the ICE is going bye-bye.

Pretty sure their phase out of pure ICE engines was announced a few years ago.
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I am confused.
How can the IC engine go Bye Bye in a hybrid?

Toyota has a solid and reliable line of IC engines to keep producing and selling. Adding electric traction motors is just an upgrade. No charging stations needed.
 
The RAV4 ICE is the one going bye bye. They will still offer the RAV4 in Hybrid variants.

Toyota will sell no car that is not a Hybrid powered vehicle. A Hybrid powered vehicle has a smaller ICE coupled with a minimalist EV motor.

No more strictly ICE or purely ICE powered cars.
 
Hmmm. Now my problem. Was shopping for a new vehicle today and the RAV4 (ICE) got in our top 3 selections.
Get a 2024 RAV4 ICE or just bite the bullet and join the hybrid community in the next year.
 
Melensdad said:
The RAV4 ICE is the one going bye bye. They will still offer the RAV4 in Hybrid variants.

Toyota will sell no car that is not a Hybrid powered vehicle. A Hybrid powered vehicle has a smaller ICE coupled with a minimalist EV motor.

No more strictly ICE or purely ICE powered cars.
Click to expand...
Got it.
 
bczoom said:
Hmmm. Now my problem. Was shopping for a new vehicle today and the RAV4 (ICE) got in our top 3 selections.
Get a 2024 RAV4 ICE or just bite the bullet and join the hybrid community in the next year.
Click to expand...
FWIW the RAV4 and the VENZA are essentially the same but dressed up very differently.

Venza's hybrid drive system is identical to RAV4 and visa versa. I own the Venza (which is sort of like Grandpa's version of an SUV which is not an off-road vehicle but rather a semi-luxury road only vehicle). While I am not the primary driver, I have to say I'm happy with the hybrid drive. It is also the same Hybrid drive system that it in the low and middle trim "Crown" sedans. It may be in other Toyota models, possibly the Camry, but I didn't look into other models. It is considered to be a well tested system.

I don't really see a downside to the Hybrid. Performance is similar when you press the pedal down. Fuel economy is superior in city/suburban driving. As I noted in another thread, the fuel economy drops in pure highway driving and I get 31mpg on the highway in my nearly 180 mile round trip drives from home to Purdue University and back home. Of that 180 miles, 170 is highway miles. The lovely Mrs_Bob gets a lot closer to 37mpg in her driving. Neither of us complain about performance. My only complaint is that with a full tank it has a range of roughly 425 miles. I'd really have preferred 500+ range.

FWIW, we have the Venza Limited with a bunch of added accessories. It's pretty much the same as the Lexus version of the same vehicle, although the Lexus has a better looking front grille and slightly nicer interior. Again, same drive train as the RAV4, Crown, Venza.

Also FWIW, the Toyota Hybrid MAX engine is preferred by auto writers, it is the engine in the upper trim Crown, I think it is used in the larger Highlander, and some Lexus Hybrids. It is (was) not available in the Venza/RAV4. But it loses 10mpg, if that is a consideration for you. In a Venza, with limited range to begin with, that would have been a deal killer for me to lose 10mpg.
 
As soon as Mrs. Zoom wakes up from her nap, we may be heading back to the Toyota dealer to take another look.
Will take a look at the Hybrid.
IIRC, the salesman said the hybrid system is fully integrated so if your battery goes bad, your car is dead. Battery life "should" be around 10 years. New batteries are around $4K. That's the kind of shit I don't like about Hybrids.

The Venza is a bit too big for our needs.
We're down to a new Subaru Outback, new Toyota RAV4 or a couple year old Lexus NX300.
Drove the Lexus yesterday, drove the Outback this morning. Kicked the tires on the RAV4 yesterday but now want to take it for a test drive.
 
bczoom said:
As soon as Mrs. Zoom wakes up from her nap, we may be heading back to the Toyota dealer to take another look.
Will take a look at the Hybrid.
IIRC, the salesman said the hybrid system is fully integrated so if your battery goes bad, your car is dead. Battery life "should" be around 10 years. New batteries are around $4K. That's the kind of shit I don't like about Hybrids.

The Venza is a bit too big for our needs.
We're down to a new Subaru Outback, new Toyota RAV4 or a couple year old Lexus NX300.
Drove the Lexus yesterday, drove the Outback this morning. Kicked the tires on the RAV4 yesterday but now want to take it for a test drive.
Click to expand...
FWIW, the Lexus NX300 is the luxury clone of the Venza. Visually and dimensionally very similar side by side. The Venza, arguably has an ugly protruding nose, which also makes is slightly longer. The older NX300 is likely an ICE vehicle, if it has an "h" after the 300 then it would be a Hybrid.

Also, the RAV4 Hybrid and the Venza are both sharing identical engines. The Venza is a few inches longer, a few inches shorter and the same width as the RAV4... the Venza is a few $$$$ more expensive due to some added features, which may or may not matter to you. Ditto the Lexus NX300, which is a couple inches longer than the RAV4 but a couple shorter than the VENZA, but being used, it could be the least expensive choice instead of the most expensive choice.

The RAV4 is more rugged looking, and boxier. That gives it the benefit of having the most interior capacity of the 3 options. Both the Venza and the Lexus NX300 have more angled cabin and roof lines, yielding a bit less interior capacity.
 
I just happened to do a little car shopping yesterday. Toying with the idea of a newer Toyota Avalon. Wife and I both love the 2013 Avalon we have but it has 142k miles and since they aren't making Avalon's anymore I was tossing around the idea of bumping up to a 20 to 22 version.
We drove one that looked very sharp and sporty. A TRD Avalon. To sporty for me. Very low to the ground. Not for me.
I have never wanted a hybrid but I'm being closed minded. I guess I should expand my horizons.
Like BC I dread the idea of replacing the battery at a cost of 4k. I wonder how hybrids will hold their value especially if you get near the 10 year mark where you know it's going to need that battery replaced.

Here is the Avalon we drove.

IMG_9914.png
 
For whatever it is worth, I checked a couple Toyota forums. Hybrid batteries typically last 180,000 miles. Some 200,000. Some a bit less. But if I can get 180,000 miles out of our new Venza I am going to be thrilled . . . largely because it means I will have lived long enough to wear out this car :yum:

I noticed you have 142,000 on your current car. Assuming you buy a new car and run it up to 142,000 before you replace it, you will never have to worry about the hybrid battery replacement.

Doc said:
I just happened to do a little car shopping yesterday. Toying with the idea of a newer Toyota Avalon. Wife and I both love the 2013 Avalon we have but it has 142k miles and since they aren't making Avalon's anymore I was tossing around the idea of bumping up to a 20 to 22 version.
. . .
Like BC I dread the idea of replacing the battery at a cost of 4k. I wonder how hybrids will hold their value especially if you get near the 10 year mark where you know it's going to need that battery replaced.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Bob. Plus, there is not a thing wrong with the car. The whole reason for considering buying was to get a discontinued ICE Avalon. Since I will now consider hybrid I will hold off buying for a few years. Our Toyota Solara we ran up to 195k and sold it and bought the Avalon because we were retiring and wanted a lower mileage car. So I will most likely wait a few years and count on hybrids getting even better. No rush on my end. :D
 
Hey Doc - Something to consider. When we started out shopping, we were looking for a sedan. We got in-and-out of a couple sedans then I had the Mrs start climbing in-and-out of SUV's. We both definitely prefer the seat height and ease of ingress/egress compared to a sedan. We're now only looking at SUV's.

Don't let miles or age scare you on those older Toyota's. We have a 2001 Avalon that is bulletproof, has required ZERO major items. Our 2004 Camry has taken a royal beating, including being flooded over the seats. Drained it, cleaned it and it still just keeps going and going. I think it has 170K+ miles on it.
 
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Bob - We scratched the Lexus NX off our list. That damn mousepad for controlling everything is notorious for being problematic to operate.

The RAV4 and Outback are still in the top 2 positions but in our situation, we always like to look at a luxury equivalent (which was the NX300). We're going out tomorrow to look at a used Mercedes GLC300. Storage space (which the Mrs likes) isn't as much but more often than not, comfort is more important than storage.
 
I'm reading reviews on the aforementioned GLC300 and ran across this tidbit as it relates to ICE vs Hybrid.

Bolding is mine.

If a plug-in hybrid is what you're after, the GLC350e keeps the turbo four-cylinder and adds an 85kW electric motor for a combined 320 horsepower. It sounds great until you do the math: buying the plug-in hybrid nets the buyer only 1 mpg better in the EPA's city/highway combined metric than the GLC300 and just 10 miles of electric-only driving per charge.
 
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When I was looking at EVs, Hybrids, Plug in Hybrids (PHEVs) and ICE vehicles in the summer/fall of 2023 before buying the Hybrid Venza.

I looked specifically at the RAV4 Prime (PHEV) and the Hyundai Santa Fe. I looked at both simply because both had ICE, Hybrid and PHEV variants. So you could compare price and economy for each the RAV4 and the Sante Fe.

Using very simple math, such that an idiot like me can understand, there is absolutely no way to "cost justify" a PHEV of either of those vehicles based on the cost differential between the variants of the same model/same brand. It was reasonably easy to cost justify a Hybrid over a Gas based ICE assuming $3/gallon gas prices. But there was zero chance that the cost uncharge for a PHEV was justified.

That said, I would consider a Prius Prime PHEV if it had more room, but that has roughly a 40 mile EV drive range and that is not unreasonable range. It is too small for my uses. And I didn't run the numbers, but it seems like that might be one rare gem in the PHEV universe that might be cost justifiable given that the typical American drives about 32 miles a day.
 
All this hybrid talk intrigued me enough to look up what our local Ford dealership has for hybrid f150s as if I was to replace my truck with a current offering, that'd be a top contender. Most of the ford lineup is now offered in hybrid. My current f150 is a 17 and originally listed 65k Canadian. It's now up to 72k. The only hybrid available here is the limited starting at.....



Screenshot_20240126_052348_Chrome.jpg

I can buy a lot of fuel for 35k before I start to see savings. It's going to be a long while before I spend that kind of money on a truck. I bought mine a year old with 55k on it for 38k in 18. Our dealership has one the exact same thing as mine. Same year trim and mileage listing for 39,995 now. At that price point, it would be stupid for me to explore a new hybrid. Sorry but all the new fancy electronics are just not worth 60k out of my bank account so I can hug a tree and feel good about doing it.
 
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NorthernRedneck said:
All this hybrid talk intrigued me enough to look up what our local Ford dealership has for hybrid f150s as if I was to replace my truck with a current offering, that'd be a top contender. Most of the ford lineup is now offered in hybrid. My current f150 is a 17 and originally listed 65k Canadian. It's now up to 72k. The only hybrid available here is the limited starting at.....



View attachment 173550
I can buy a lot of fuel for 35k before I start to see savings. It's going to be a long while before I spend that kind of money on a truck. I bought mine a year old with 55k on it for 38k in 18. Our dealership has one the exact same thing as mine. Same year trim and mileage listing for 39,995 now. At that price point, it would be stupid for me to explore a new hybrid. Sorry but all the new fancy electronics are just not worth 60k out of my bank account so I can hug a tree and feel good about doing it.
Click to expand...
I'm always amazed at how much higher trucks are in Canada. But there is this one local to you.
 

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Toyota is right!
…….making good points about the rush to EV

More and more spokesmen and experts are truly saying to the world is that mandates – government deciding what can and cannot go to market – and the huge subsidies that go along with them (which would be unnecessary in a true emergency) are at war with the wisdom of the market, which relies on true public opinion as to what is best for the consumer.


https://cornwallalliance.org/2024/02...so-was-toyota/
 
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