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Tesla
- Thread starter m1west
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Time to buy!
Likely
Try as the government will, EV's will be nothing short of a niche product for years to come. Even the President of Toyota said as much recently with his comment they are a second vehicle. He is not alone among auto execs. Notice how CEO Jim Farley of Ford hedged his bets in creating a separate entity for EV's. That way when it all goes boom the ICE side of the business keeps on chooglin'.
I think its al designed to fail, first push EV while regulating fuel out existence. When it all crashes as everyone knows it will, it has instant restriction of movement for the masses built in while forcing folks to move to the cities where they have mass transit.
I disagree.
EV's are here to stay. Tesla literally made that a reality.
Currently dominating the market Tesla will survive any crash of the movement to EV's. As a commuter car in metro areas, they are successful. However, they will never replace the range and versatility of petrol-powered vehicles. Most especially personal pickup trucks and OTR trailer tractors.
Energy use is a constant. Right now fossil fuels comprise 70% to 80% of all energy sources in the world. That includes the energy for EV's. As the technology of EV's improves, and the purchase price lowers, a balance will be reached. Perhaps 30% EV's in the passenger vehicle population. However, this will change nothing in the production of CO2 as the actual energy will still come, mostly, from so-called fossil fuels.
So much for saving the planet.
Tesla commands 80% or more of the EV market. It has no serious competitors. Yet.
Tesla is currently at $122.00, more or less, and rising. Right now, funds for my household are low. That said, I'm buying Tesla today.
EV's are here to stay. Tesla literally made that a reality.
Currently dominating the market Tesla will survive any crash of the movement to EV's. As a commuter car in metro areas, they are successful. However, they will never replace the range and versatility of petrol-powered vehicles. Most especially personal pickup trucks and OTR trailer tractors.
Energy use is a constant. Right now fossil fuels comprise 70% to 80% of all energy sources in the world. That includes the energy for EV's. As the technology of EV's improves, and the purchase price lowers, a balance will be reached. Perhaps 30% EV's in the passenger vehicle population. However, this will change nothing in the production of CO2 as the actual energy will still come, mostly, from so-called fossil fuels.
So much for saving the planet.
Tesla commands 80% or more of the EV market. It has no serious competitors. Yet.
Tesla is currently at $122.00, more or less, and rising. Right now, funds for my household are low. That said, I'm buying Tesla today.
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Maybe Franc. I'm waiting for the time when Tesla needs to do a complete retool of all their plants worldwide at the same time in order to have refreshed models to stay competitive. People buying their second or third Tesla are going to want something updated and different or they will go elsewhere. A huge financial outlay. We'll see.
Seriously?
Exactly what would you consider a "refreshed" model?
Current new models do 200 miles. Fine for inner metro & city.
The issue isn't the car but the recharging systems.
LOL, refreshed as in updated tech in the interior and a styling refresh as well as advances in suspension and more economical advanced ways to mass produce unibody structures to keep mass production costs down as much as feasible. The style is going to get old while the competition stays agressive for market share. Tech is obsolete before it is installed in vehicles. Ford, Stellantis and GM retool their plants all the time especially as GM and Ford do their pickup truck battles.
Maybe Elon has the capital to keep up with the giants of the industry but look back just into recent history to see the casualties. AMC, Nash, Willys. They could not compete with the Big 3. Sad for me because we loved our two AMC Jeep Eagle wagons. They were beasts, solidly built but succumbed to the gods of the industry.
I am not a fan of the battery operated car. I live in a climate that for all intents and purposes relegates the EV to toy status. -30F temps severely impact HVB capacity to the point where Ford stopped offering heated seats, steering wheel and mirrors in all but their highest capacity Mustang Mach E. If parked outside in those temps I would doubt the battery would even take a charge. Ever try to use battery drills in those temps? It's a joke and the joke is not going to be on me for $60 Grand I can say.
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I, we all, can tell you are not a fan of EV's. That shouldn't affect your judgement of the facts. Which may or may not apply universally, including where you live.
GM, Ford, even Chrysler (Chrysler had ready to produce EV's in 2008, sedan minivan and Pick-up) are too stogey and lame to be a spearhead in EV's. GM seldom has anything novel, new or innovative to offer. Ford is setting up to be a contender but is way late in the game. Further, they already shut down their co-sponsor engineering co-op with Hyundai.
Did anyone of the Big three copy the Volkswagen? No. But that innovation powered a new car company that succeeded despite the sponsoring nation having lost the war that inspired it's inception. it still builds competitive product today and in fact has acquired many of it's former competitors.
Only 1% of cars on American roads are EV's. 90% of them are from Musk. His factory is not a retool of IC powered vehicles but built up from scratch and now operating well. Elon isn't "managing" resources of an old top heavy warhorse corporation but personally leading the teams to get his genius into reality.
Name a CEO from the big three that slept on the factory floor to get it done.
Elon approaches building cars and rockets, the same way Sam Walton approached marketing consumer goods. hands on with an eye to eject parts, concept and procedures that added no value to the product.
Like you, I live a life that requires long distance drives, often pulling trailers. There is no place in my stable for an EV. So like you, I am at odds with the government's mentality that IC engines and fossil fuels must go. However, that logic does not exclude the value to the population presented by a well-designed and performing EV.
As soon as Elon Musk brings and affordable, long-range EV to market, without subsidies, the entire picture of that "toy" vehicle will change. However, until there is a model with a rag-top, 6 speed manual tranny, and a clutch,,, I will not be buying one.
I see some valid points in both of your statements so I’m not sure why I’m jumping into the fray here, but as a Tesla diver for 4 years now I can say I have experience with them In cold climates (Northern MN). Mine is not a short range commuter vehicle but I use it to drive 180 miles to meetings in the cities at least weekly. The cost to drive my EV is $.04 per mile and so far nothing comes close to that!!! Yes their best use case is Short range <200 mi daily, (drive all day and charge at home) is ideal of which the avg American commutes 41 miles per day, so this falls well within that category. I believe the Ultimate senerio is for the 2 car families, of which 1 is your ICE (internal combustion engine) pickup for hauling, towing, and long range trips, and your second vehicle being an EV for your work and daily commutes. But unless battery technology improves drastically we are a long ways from an all EV future.
Does that $.04 include the cost of charging as well as the cost of the vehicle? My Nissan pickup is at $.20 a mile just for the gas and with 224,000 miles and the cost of the vehicle at $24,000 is at $.10 a mile so total cost per mile is $.30 per mile with vehicle cost and fuel factored in. Factor in the cost for the vehicle and post what the cost per mile is for comparison. I would be interested in knowing what that number is.
Cost does include the cost of charging (fuel) but not the vehicle as that factor is hard to determine as the end of service life is still out with the jury…plus I bought it used so I didn’t have to bleed all the depreciation! I know of several 200,000 plus and one 400,000 mile out there (Call me a skeptic but I’m not believing Elons claim of 1,000,000 miles yet…) Not many EV drivers are mile rackers plus they haven’t been out long enough….My Model S has 114,862 miles on it yet and claims to have a battery health report above average for my vehicle mileage and age.. for whatever that’s worth…Having to add a new set of tires on I figured I’d rerun the numbers out there for everyone to see.
Lifetime Costs: in 4 years and 49,862 miles
Maintenance Cost: $2,200 (2 Sets of Tires and wiper blades)
Charging Costs: 16,556 kWh @ $0.051per kWh = $844.37
Total of $3044.37 so if I divide that by my overall total that gives me $0.06 per mile
If we want to add in all the numbers like Vehicle Costs, Interest, Insurance, My Deer Hit, Free Lifetime Supercharging, and Free Premium Connectivity, and the Unlimited Battery and Drivetrain Coverage, plus 100,000 mile bumper to bumper coverage, we could really take a deep dive into the weeds….LOL
Lifetime Costs: in 4 years and 49,862 miles
Maintenance Cost: $2,200 (2 Sets of Tires and wiper blades)
Charging Costs: 16,556 kWh @ $0.051per kWh = $844.37
Total of $3044.37 so if I divide that by my overall total that gives me $0.06 per mile
If we want to add in all the numbers like Vehicle Costs, Interest, Insurance, My Deer Hit, Free Lifetime Supercharging, and Free Premium Connectivity, and the Unlimited Battery and Drivetrain Coverage, plus 100,000 mile bumper to bumper coverage, we could really take a deep dive into the weeds….LOL
You do realize that what you are describing is "Freedom of choice"
My money is where my mouth is.
Sold some stock.
And,
We bought five more Tesla shares today.
Sold some stock.
And,
We bought five more Tesla shares today.
I’ve always been a proponent of choice, the government forcing, regulating, or subsidizing one thing over another has and always will be another form of control over the people…
LOL, just trying to compare total costs of an EV over there service life compared to an ICE vehicle. Thaking into consideration, new vehicle cost, maintenance which I left out of my calculations, fuel/ charging costs. I think the Nissan will go to around 300k miles. You mentioned 200,000 to 400,000 miles.Is that on the original battery or replacement. And lastly resale value if any with 300k miles.
I think the Tesla stock price is from Elon selling off his shares to pay for his Twitter "experiment". Tesla is still the market leader and appears to be outselling almost everything in Europe:
insideevs.com
Tesla Model Y Was Europe's Best-Selling Car Overall In November
Tesla sold 19,144 units of the Model Y in Europe in November, a gain of more than 260 percent on the same month last year.
insideevs.com
That's a bit over one $Billion in one month. Is GM, Mercedes or Ford even close?
chowderman
Well-known member
the Tesla price is more likely the ESG freakasaurusi demanding the whole world boycott anything Musk.
one day soon, the market forces will simply bury the entire ESG "score" thing - and judging from many comments from many corners, that's not too far off.
the ultra-left has had their temper tantrum and it has proven to be total inflated BS.
one day soon, the market forces will simply bury the entire ESG "score" thing - and judging from many comments from many corners, that's not too far off.
the ultra-left has had their temper tantrum and it has proven to be total inflated BS.
I have 3K shares and have not sold any. I have had quite a paper loss but no actual loss since none was sold. This year my $30K retirement SEP contribution will see all of that buying more Tesla on the cheap.
A big part of this sell off is that many retail investors had bought Tesla on margin. Meaning they borrowed the money. Fine unless the value falls below the purchase price. Then you have to make up the difference in cash or sell some of the Stock. This downturn triggered thousands of stop loss sell orders as the price cascaded down. This will NOT last.
This is truly an opportunity of a generation, I believe.
Happy New Year!
A big part of this sell off is that many retail investors had bought Tesla on margin. Meaning they borrowed the money. Fine unless the value falls below the purchase price. Then you have to make up the difference in cash or sell some of the Stock. This downturn triggered thousands of stop loss sell orders as the price cascaded down. This will NOT last.
This is truly an opportunity of a generation, I believe.
Happy New Year!
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I'm on a much, much smaller scale.
We sold some other stocks and when the funds for that clear, I plan on 5 more shares.
We sold some other stocks and when the funds for that clear, I plan on 5 more shares.
Tesla is not just a car company. In due time the investment world might just figure that out.
Grid energy storage will soon be a noticeable a piece of the pie. Along with the Cyber truck roll out next year.
Tesla will not suffer the lack of battery supply any manufacturer outside of China will face.
With a 30% profit margin Tesla will have the power to lower prices to the point many will not
be able to compete. And let's not forget the $18 Billion in cash they are sitting on with virtually no debt.
As Waren Buffet has said you have to have the balls to walk up to the window and buy while everyone else is
running for the exits.
Can greenies do math?
I get what you're saying....
I just wish the Government would get out of the EV space and let the market and consumers decide.
The transition would come at a pace that would be much more seamless.
The economics are clear. The Tesla is much cheaper to own and drive than an IC car.
The reason is simple. An IC vehicle leaks heat from everywhere, and only maybe 30% of the energy goes to the wheels.
The rest is wasted into the environment. That heat took $$$ to make.
One source I read equates Tesla to MPG of a regular car. It was getting 124 miles per gallon equivalent.
I own Tesla Stock as a hedge against the ethanol industry that is a big part of the economics of farming today.
Not a climate change freak, but I do enjoy cleaner air.
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What people don’t realize is Tesla doesn’t make money. They are nothing more than a government handout car company. Tesla sells green credits to all other major car makers who haven’t fully complied with new smog and mileage laws, these companies are very close to not needing to buy these made up credits anymore. Once the handouts end , Tesla ends.
I was short the stock for almost 6 months last year and was forced out when the shares I borrowed were called back or I’d still be holding short.
I was short the stock for almost 6 months last year and was forced out when the shares I borrowed were called back or I’d still be holding short.
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Your way out of date and out of touch with reality on EV credits vrs. Tesla profits. My bet is your a butt hurt Democrat as well. Am I right?
Twitter will certainly damage the Democratic party as it already as and will continue to do so for as far as the eye can see.
Though I am still ahead in my investment and have time to wait, it has been worth countless $$$ of devaluation in my stock
value to see the traitorous Democrats and our Federal bureaucracies exposed for all to see.
This has little to do with Tesla. And you need to do your homework.
My political view doesn’t have anything to do with how I invest. Does it bother you another republican shorted Elon’s pump and dump and made good money ?
Please enlighten me on what I’m missing. Tesla continues to play games with pulling forward revenue, 99% of retail investors have no clue how to break down their balance sheet. Remember we have seen this game played before and now the little lady is on her way to prison. Selling a car and claiming it’s FSD is no different than selling blood test kits claiming they can test you for 1 million different diseases….Full Self driving is a fraud and will likely end the same way Holmes scam ended.
Democrats are responsible for the Tesla bubble with their BS government handouts.
Please enlighten me how Elon buying Bitcoin and selling it for a profit once, then pulling this forward based on old #’s is fair to any TSLA investors ? The majority of retail investors just watch the news and are force Fed what sell side analysts say, they don’t have any clue how to break down the EBITIDA games or even read a 10K.
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