National Anthem in Spanish... (poll)

[Dargo]

One of our local radio stations began playing our national anthem that has been recorded in Spanish to see how our local population would react. So far, 100% of all comments have been either negative or extremely angry. One of our local news channels also did a call in poll about our national anthem now being recorded and played in Spanish. Again, 100% of their responses have been very negative. What do you guys think?

 

[working woman]

I saw in the news yesterday that President Bush bashed the Spanish version as well . Said it should be sung in English. (could not agree more)
Aslo did you know that some of the working has been changed as well??

 

[Big Dog]

F**k No..................Time to get un-politically correct................

Immigrants are to completely accept everything for which America stands for, not be half and half!!

Lock down the borders! I haven't the patience for this chit anymore...

 

[Melensdad]

First, there have been many renditions of the National Anthem, from Blues to Jazz to Rock. I'm not a fan of any of them. So I am not a fan of the Spanish versions either.

But the thing that I really dislike about the Spanish versions is that they change the words. A strick Spanish version is OK by me, not great, but I accept it in the same way that I accept the Rock, Jazz, Blues versions. But the versions where they change the words, that to me is an insult and it could easily be a cause of fights and culture splits.

The Star Spangled Banner (Nuestro Himno, translated mean Our Anthem)

• One uses the original words translated to Spanish (not thrilled about it but OK with me)
• Another version changes lines and includes the lines (I do not like this!):
  • "The time has come to break the chains.
  • Throughout the night they proclaimed, 'We will defend it!'
  • Tell me! Does its starry beauty still wave
  • Above the land of the free,
  • The sacred flag?"
• A third version (I do not like this either!)
  • Verse 1
    Oh say can you see, a la luz de la aurora/Lo que tanto aclamamos la noche al caer? Sus estrellas, sus franjas flotaban ayer/En el fiero combate en senal de victoria,/Fulgor de lucha, al paso de la libertada,/Por la noche decian: "Se va defendiendo!"
    
    Coro: Oh, decid! Despliega aun su hermosura estrellada,/Sobre tierra de libres, la bandera sagrada?
    
    Chant:
    It's time to make a difference the kids, men and the women/Let's stand for our beliefs, let's stand for our vision/What about the children los ninos como P-Star
    
    These kids have no parents, cause all of these mean laws.
    See this can't happen, not only about the Latins.
    Asians, blacks and whites and all they do is adding
    more and more, let's not start a war
    with all these hard workers,
    they can't help where they were born.
    
    Verse 2
    Sus estrellas, sus franjas, la libertad, somos iguales
    Somos hermanos, es nuestro himno.
    En el fiero combate en senal de victoria,/Fulgor de lucha, al paso de la libertada,/Por la noche decian: "Se va defendiendo!"
    
    Coro: Oh, decid! Despliega aun su hermosura estrellada,/Sobre tierra de libres, la bandera sagrada?

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

Bilingualism is a slippery slope. It is a huge waste of money and time and if anything polarizes the populations. I see the waste in Canada (my sister is a translator) and it is obscene. It's a whole industry that serves a minority segment of the population while causing excessive beurocratic waste throughout the rest of the country. I had to take French up to grade 11 and it sucked, it was poorly taught and the only time I have ever used it was when I was really drunk in Switzerland and I didn't care if I butchered it. I think the education money would have been better spent on physical education than on french.

 

[BoneheadNW]

But the thing that I really dislike about the Spanish versions is that they change the words. A strick Spanish version is OK by me, not great, but I accept it in the same way that I accept the Rock, Jazz, Blues versions.

Bob, I completely agree. I draw the line at changing the words. I would like to think that the citizens of other countries would feel the same way about their national anthems.
Bone

 

[BoneheadNW]

It's a whole industry that serves a minority segment of the population while causing excessive beurocratic waste throughout the rest of the country.

Kinda sounds like certain parts of our government!
Bonehead

 

[DaveNay]

Bob, to me it's really simple. When the National Anthem is performed in Blues, Jazz, Rock, Acapella, or whatever, it is still the National Anthem.

If you change the words (with the exception of slight shifts in gramatical evolution), it is no longer the National Anthem, simply another song that has used the same musical score as it's base.

In the realm of music, this really isn't that unusual.

 

[Dargo]

I just had a chance to speak with, er, well, let's call him an undocumented alien who works for a neighbor. He brought up this subject and stated that he disagreed with people trying to change the Star Spangled Banner. He basically said that he did not come here for this country to be "North Mexico". If he wanted all things Mexican, he would have stayed in Mexico. He came here for opportunity, for a better life. He is certainly proud of being Mexican, but it infuriates him when other Mexicans try to change the U.S. to look and feel like North Mexico. Although I've never seen them, he apparently has a wife and a daughter here. He refuses to speak Spanish even at home. He says that the only way his daughter will succeed is to be able to speak English. Although he does not want her to lose respect for her heritage, it is this new country that offers them the best potential for living their dream and they should not forget that. If everything here changes to the way it is in Mexico, he said he may as well just have stayed there.

I thought that was an interesting take from a five minute conversation. Maybe he was just telling us what we wanted to hear to preserve his job, but I don't really think so. He seems fairly well outspoken and proud.

Personally, I don't even like it when our national anthem is performed as a soul song. The last time I checked, it was not a soul song, a blues song, or a hip-hop song. I suppose I'm rather conservative because I prefer to hear it performed exactly as it was written. In high school choir, the Star Spangled Banner was always the song you had to sing when trying out for any solo. There were no changes allowed. I was taught that it is disrespectful to all those who gave their lives for our freedom to sing it any other way. I was told that if I was free to sing the song, I should feel obligated to sing it properly since many thousands of people have died to allow me to do so.

 

[Melensdad]

Bob, to me it's really simple. When the National Anthem is performed in Blues, Jazz, Rock, Acapella, or whatever, it is still the National Anthem.

If you change the words (with the exception of slight shifts in gramatical evolution), it is no longer the National Anthem, simply another song that has used the same musical score as it's base.

Agreed, but if you are a new immigrant and Spanish is the only language you speak, and you hear the Spanish version, do you think it is within the realm of reasonable possibility that you might believe that to be the ACTUAL translation?

• And if that is reasonable, then don't you think that the meaning of the song changes?
• And if that is reasonable then don't you think it could lead to some cultural divide that is based on mistakenly believing those words?
• And/or if that is reasonable, then don't you think that some people might believe that the uproar is simply about language as opposed to meaning, and that could also lead to further divides?

I just had a chance to speak with, er, well, let's call him an undocumented alien who works for a neighbor. He brought up this subject and stated that he disagreed with people trying to change the Star Spangled Banner. He basically said that he did not come here for this country to be "North Mexico". If he wanted all things Mexican, he would have stayed in Mexico. He came here for opportunity, for a better life. He is certainly proud of being Mexican, but it infuriates him when other Mexicans try to change the U.S. to look and feel like North Mexico. Although I've never seen them, he apparently has a wife and a daughter here. He refuses to speak Spanish even at home. He says that the only way his daughter will succeed is to be able to speak English. Although he does not want her to lose respect for her heritage, it is this new country that offers them the best potential for living their dream and they should not forget that. If everything here changes to the way it is in Mexico, he said he may as well just have stayed there.

Brent, this is how my father felt when he came here. He spoke no English upon his arrival at Ellis Island as a legal immigrant, however he left his language behind and refused to speak it here except when he had to. He strove to lean English and worked hard to lose his accent (never completely accomplished that). He adopted America and American culture as much as America adopted him as a citizen. Now you tell me, why is it that Blacks who speak ghetto-English can't get jobs but immigrants who speak English can? I say that much of the prejudice in our society is not racial, it is linguistic.

 

[DaveNay]

I suppose I'm rather conservative because I prefer to hear it performed exactly as it was written.

Brent, sorry to bust your bubble, but you in fact are not hearing it as it was written.

[SIZE=+1] The poem becomes a hymn and anthem[/SIZE]
On the way back to shore, and later in his hotel room, he completed all four verses of the poem, and the following morning he took it to his brother-in-law, a local judge, who thought it so good that he arranged to have it printed as a handbill. It is very likely that Key only ever intended this as a poem. However, there was a very popular tune of the time which had the same form and metre, and there can be no doubt that Key was heavily influenced by it - ironically, this was the tune of a British drinking song!
When the handbills were printed, they bore the name of this tune to which the poem should be sung - Anacreon in Heaven. Nobody is sure whether this was Key's idea, or whether his brother-in-law had made the connection, but to this day the American National Anthem is sung to the tune of a British drinking song.
At one time, the English composer Dr Thomas Arnold was thought to be its composer - it was used as the constitutional song of the Anacreonic Society, a drinking club based in a pub in the Strand, London, for which Arnold had written numerous songs. However, it is now accepted that the tune was actually written by John Stafford Smith for the same society, probably in 1771.

And look! The tune is not original, but is a Brittish drinking song!

 

[DaveNay]

Agreed, but if you are a new immigrant and Spanish is the only language you speak, and you hear the Spanish version, do you think it is within the realm of reasonable possibility that you might believe that to be the ACTUAL translation?

Ahhh....now we get into the part where there are not any illegal immigrants, but all legal immigrants are given at least a basic education in the American culture and history.

 

[Melensdad]

Brent, sorry to bust your bubble, but you in fact are not hearing it as it was written.

And look! The tune is not original, but is a Brittish drinking song!

Dave, bursting your bubble a little bit here, and splitting hairs too, the words Francis Scott Key wrote were a poem, his BIL converted it to a song and arranged it to the score of a drinking song that was, in fact, modified to fit the words. So the song adaptation is rightly credited to the judge, the words to Key, and the musical score is SIMILAR to the drinking song but not identical. Like I said, splitting hairs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_Skurka
Agreed, but if you are a new immigrant and Spanish is the only language you speak, and you hear the Spanish version, do you think it is within the realm of reasonable possibility that you might believe that to be the ACTUAL translation?


Originally Posted by DaveNay
Ahhh....now we get into the part where there are not any illegal immigrants, but all legal immigrants are given at least a basic education in the American culture and history.

No Dave, we don't get to that point. Please go back and read carefully what I wrote, do not read other things into it. We have not (yet) begun to discuss LEGAL versus ILLEGAL immigrants. But when we do, I will be sure to raise up my hand so you can see it.


OK now on the topic of LEGAL versus ILLEGAL, yes Dave, LEGAL immigrants are given culture/history classes, tests, etc as a precursor to obtaining their citizenship. HOWEVER, those classes, to the best of my knowledge, do not include a comparitive study of alternately worded songs. Consequently it is actually plausable that someone who has a modest understanding of English might still believe the Spanish altered translation as the actual translation.

 

[HGM]

Personally, I don't even like it when our national anthem is performed as a soul song. The last time I checked, it was not a soul song, a blues song, or a hip-hop song. I suppose I'm rather conservative because I prefer to hear it performed exactly as it was written. In high school choir, the Star Spangled Banner was always the song you had to sing when trying out for any solo. There were no changes allowed. I was taught that it is disrespectful to all those who gave their lives for our freedom to sing it any other way. I was told that if I was free to sing the song, I should feel obligated to sing it properly since many thousands of people have died to allow me to do so.

I completely agree with that.... For whatever reason(PC I presume), we as a country(not all of us) tend to go out of our way to give imigrants everything they want to make them feel at home.. Now, I do agree that this country was founded by imigrants and we all are to some degree imigrants... Myself and I'm sure most of you guys concider yourself(as do most Americans) to be American... We may have differing lineage(English, German, French, etc...), but we are Americans first.. This is my country, I respect my country and will stand up for my country if asked to do so.. I will not stand up for England or Germany(my lineage)... I do not think it would be right, though a large number of our population is English and German as I am, for us to modify what this country was founded on or stands for to glorify my heritage.. So, why do others think it is their right to be Mexican-Americans, Asian-Americans, African-Americans, Cuban- Americans, etc..?? If they need a precurser to their American status, they are not Americans, they are more loyal to their heritage with in my opinion, removes their right to influence America.. If they truely are American, then this country should come first and they should be expected to act that way.. If they would like to interpret it(privately) to others who do not speak our language, I have no problem with that, but the National Anthem and anything else embodying our country should be representative of what our forefathers intended it to be..

 

[Dutch-NJ]

Most any countries’ national anthem is poetry put to music. Poetry either rhymes or the words “flow.” Any attempt to translate ANY national anthem to another language is just plain flat out wrong.

The Star Spangled Banner in English
O say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watch'd, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof thro' the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

The Star Spangled Banner translated into Spanish
¿Opinión de O, puede usted ver, por la luz temprana del amanecer, qué tan orgulloso nosotros hail'd en destellar pasado del crepúsculo? ¿De quién amplias rayas y estrellas brillantes, thro ' la lucha peligrosa, O'er los terraplenes watch'd, tan galantemente fluíamos? Y el fulgor rojo de los cohetes, las bombas que estallaban en aire, dio a thro de la prueba ' la noche que nuestra bandera todavía estaba allí. ¿Opinión de O, esa bandera estrella-star-spangled todavía agita O'er la tierra del libre y el hogar del valiente?

The Star Spangled Banner in Spanish translated back into English
Opinion of Or, can you see, by the early light of the dawn, what so proud we hail'd in flashing last of the twilight? Of whom ample rays and shining stars, thro ' the dangerous fight, Óer the embankments watch'd, so galantemente we flowed? And the red fulgor of the rockets, the pumps that exploded in air, gave thro of the test ' the night that our flag still was there. Opinion of Or, that flag still stars-star-spangled shakes Óer the Earth of free and the home of the brave one?

Does that make sense?

I used http://babelfish.altavista.com/ for the translation. Try it yourself.

There are many beautiful national anthems. http://www.national-anthems.net/

Just try singing the French national anthem, “La Marseillaise,” using English words. http://www.fordham.edu/HALSALL/MOD/marseill.html
Ridiculous.......... The beauty is completely lost.

 

[Melensdad]

Dutch, I use Bablefish a lot, and I find it does a medocre job of translating. There are many things that a computer translator does not do, that a human translator will do. So while I do not like the Spanish translation, I also don't consider a Bablefish translation to be particularly accurate at translating and your criticsm of the Bablefish translation may have as much to do with the failures of computer translators as anything else.

But I do agree that a Spanish version is not a good idea.

 

[daedong]

There are many beautiful national anthems.

I am still trying to work out what girt is, but like most aussies i don't even know the words in full.

ADVANCE AUSTRALIA FAIR
Australians all let us rejoice,
For we are young and free;
We've golden soil and wealth for toil;
Our home is girt by sea;
Our land abounds in nature's gifts
Of beauty rich and rare;
In history's page, let every stage
Advance Australia Fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing,
Advance Australia Fair.
Beneath our radiant Southern Cross
We'll toil with hearts and hands;
To make this Commonwealth of ours
Renowned of all the lands;
For those who've come across the seas
We've boundless plains to share;
With courage let us all combine
To Advance Australia Fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing,
Advance Australia Fair.

 

[Dutch-NJ]

I am still trying to work out what girt is, but like most aussies i don't even know the words in full.

ADVANCE AUSTRALIA FAIR
Australians all let us rejoice,
For we are young and free;
We've golden soil and wealth for toil;
Our home is girt by sea;
Our land abounds in nature's gifts
Of beauty rich and rare;
In history's page, let every stage
Advance Australia Fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing,
Advance Australia Fair.
Beneath our radiant Southern Cross
We'll toil with hearts and hands;
To make this Commonwealth of ours
Renowned of all the lands;
For those who've come across the seas
We've boundless plains to share;
With courage let us all combine
To Advance Australia Fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing,
Advance Australia Fair.

Those are beautiful words.

If you don't mind this Yank guessing, since "girt" means "encircle," I'd guess "Our home is girt by sea;" means Australia is an island.

 

[working woman]

I just had a chance to speak with, er, well, let's call him an undocumented alien who works for a neighbor. He brought up this subject and stated that he disagreed with people trying to change the Star Spangled Banner. He basically said that he did not come here for this country to be "North Mexico". If he wanted all things Mexican, he would have stayed in Mexico. He came here for opportunity, for a better life. He is certainly proud of being Mexican, but it infuriates him when other Mexicans try to change the U.S. to look and feel like North Mexico. Although I've never seen them, he apparently has a wife and a daughter here. He refuses to speak Spanish even at home. He says that the only way his daughter will succeed is to be able to speak English. Although he does not want her to lose respect for her heritage, it is this new country that offers them the best potential for living their dream and they should not forget that. If everything here changes to the way it is in Mexico, he said he may as well just have stayed there.

Think this guy is a rarity. Every Mexican I have delt with refuses to even attempt to speak English (and I've had delt with plenty in my former life) Usually the first queston asked was do you speak Spanish? and when I said no they usually ased for someone who did.
Aslo, when you go to your local store (such as Walmart)
and see the family outing going on they are all speaking Spanish among their selves.

 

[Junkman]

...........
Aslo, when you go to your local store (such as Walmart)
and see the family outing going on they are all speaking Spanish among their selves.

I have no problem with anyone speaking their native language among family members, and I see that as being beneficial to teach the younger ones a second language, however, in public they should be speaking English and the generation born here should be speaking it as their native language.
I have friends whose children speak Chinese, the mothers native language, and even translate for the rest of the family what the grandparents are saying. The mother speaks English all the time except when talking to her parents, which are visiting from China. She talks English to the children and they reply in either English or Chinese so they don't loose the second language. They are now proficient in both.....

 

[Dargo]

I have to admit, I would have expected some votes here for the Spanish version. No real reason, and no insult to anyone. I was just curious as to how the voting would go in a more diverse group than what I'd heard in my hometown radio call in poll. Honestly though, I am pleased that most people do have enough pride in the freedom we have, for those who died for us to have said freedom, to respect our national anthem as traditionally performed. And, as far as my memory goes back, into the 60's, as written.

 

[JimR]

Here's my opinion on this and the illegal alien issue. This country's language is english, either learn or leave. We do not need a spanish version of the national anthem. Tomorrow is a day for illegals to rally about immigration issues. It would be a good time to cordon off all these groups and check for ID's. Anyone without the proper papers gets put on a bus or plane and sent back to where they came from. They are here illegally and do not belong here. Let them come here the same way the rest of the legal aliens came here like my grandparents did. They do not deserve to be treated any differently regardless of how long they have been here.

 

[REDDOGTWO]

If they are here illegally, they are criminals and should not be allowed citizenship.

Our last day in Florida this year I was talking to one of the neighbors and found out that he was born in Austria and came over when he was 16. It took nine years of trying for his family to get their papers in order to come here. His opinion was that they should wait in line like every one else.

If I had to go back to work again, I do not think that I could come up with a job around here that would pay more than nine dollars per hour. If we would send all of the illegals home, it would bring the lower end wages up for everyone so that they could make a decent living.

 

[Dutch-NJ]

Tomorrow is a day for illegals to rally about immigration issues. It would be a good time to cordon off all these groups and check for ID's. Anyone without the proper papers gets put on a bus or plane and sent back to where they came from. They are here illegally and do not belong here.

If they are here illegally, they are criminals and should not be allowed citizenship.

That’s not going to happen because America is without dedicated leadership at this time. How are we going to get strong leaders when American voters are divided 50/50? Candidates need every vote they can get and can’t risk ruffling any feathers.

America needs another Lincoln (Suspend part of Constitution), or Teddy Roosevelt (Speak softly but carry big stick), or FDR (Close the banks - Jail Japs & Germans), or Truman (Buck stops here), or Reagan (Fired air traffic controllers).

The plans are in place. Check out Rex 84 and Garden Plot.

There are two problems. The inapt FEMA is in charge of these plans. We don’t have a leader who will say, “Do it.”

 

[JimR]

I think it is No Balls politicians. The Democrats want them here for their votes. The Republicans can't find a way to get rid of them. This country is going downhill much faster than I ever expected it to. Welfare will be at a premium at the cost to the taxpayer pretty soon. I really feel for the generations to come.

 

[Melensdad]

Welfare will be at a premium at the cost to the taxpayer pretty soon.

Jim you heartless bastard, welfare is an ENTITLEMENT program that we cannot cut.

Even many mainstream Democrats scream when it is proposed that abled bodied people be required to work for welfare.

Somewhere in the neighborhood of 36+% of the illegal aliens (not just illegal Mexicans but all illegal aliens) receive welfare.

 

[beds]

Even many mainstream Democrats scream when it is proposed that abled bodied people be required to work for welfare.

We have a workfare program up here in liberal Ontario! That's right - you get your minimum wage job if you're able to work but choose not to. And you get free daycare and job training and whatever else you would need in order to go to work. It's alot of beaurocracy to run it, but better, I think. It would be tough living on minimum wage and seeing all your lazy neighbours on welfare with the same standard of living.

 

[Doc]

We have a workfare program up here in liberal Ontario! That's right - you get your minimum wage job if you're able to work but choose not to. And you get free daycare and job training and whatever else you would need in order to go to work. It's alot of beaurocracy to run it, but better, I think. It would be tough living on minimum wage and seeing all your lazy neighbours on welfare with the same standard of living.

That does sound better than our welfare system. It takes alot of bureaucracy to just give the money to our welfare recipients.

 

[HGM]

Jim you heartless bastard, welfare is an ENTITLEMENT program that we cannot cut.

Even many mainstream Democrats scream when it is proposed that abled bodied people be required to work for welfare.

Somewhere in the neighborhood of 36+% of the illegal aliens (not just illegal Mexicans but all illegal aliens) receive welfare.

You know, I havent seen the news today... But, I cant tell you how many "working" imigrants(I hate using that word in this context, since that isnt the point) I have seen busting their ass today... I wonder how effective this strike was for them, seems everyone here is business as usual.. Odd for Atlanta

 

[JimR]

Jim you heartless bastard, welfare is an ENTITLEMENT program that we cannot cut.

Even many mainstream Democrats scream when it is proposed that abled bodied people be required to work for welfare.

Somewhere in the neighborhood of 36+% of the illegal aliens (not just illegal Mexicans but all illegal aliens) receive welfare.

LOL, Years ago, I worked with a Puerto Rican. He told me that in Puerto Rico they had signs saying " Go to Massachusetts, they have the best welfare system". Now we are flooded with these people. They abuse our welfare system and the Democrats love it because they vote for them. America, where have you gone?