Looking to (maybe) make our property more of a "Homestead"

[Melensdad]

So my property is clearly not a homestead. Big house, in-ground pool, reasonably luxurious spare garage (bathroom, car lift, heat & AC) with apartment and small workshop. Hard to say this is anything other than a rural property with a bias towards the suburbs. Yes we have a large garden.

#1 - But I'm seriously thinking about a 12 by 20 foot greenhouse (probably a hoop style, leaning toward a "Cattle Panel Greenhouse") down the hill adjacent to our current garden.

#2 - And, wondering if, using the same 12 by 20 foot footprint of the potential greenhouse, doing a similar hoop style "Cattle Panel Coop" for chickens {or ducks} in the same general area as the possible future greenhouse.

Turning 65 years old in October. Not looking to be a true homestead. But about 2 minutes drive away I've been watching a family convert a few acres into a self sustaining property. Goats. Sheep. Chickens. Gardens. And I've always had that sort of thing on my "someday" list. Low priority, and with a life of travel that was not practical. But life slowed down over the past 3 years. Melen is settled in a condo in Chicago. Dasha is settled in an apartment in San Francisco. Both have big incomes and comfortable lives. P.T. foster son Kobe is starting Kindergarten and we only have him weekends. That may even be reduced to a couple times a month???

So now it seems like, despite starting late in life, we could practically run a semi-sustainable 'homestead' with some crop production and maybe some livestock (chickens?, ducks?, rabbits?) for protein. I need a lot of research on the animals, but ducks seem like a good choice . . . great meat, reasonable egg production, but slightly different needs than chickens. More shade, more water, but that can be managed here as I have 2 wells and lots of trees, but artificial shade is also reasonably easy to create.

Cattle Panel Greenhouse video. Too long to watch, but you can get the concept pretty quick.

And here is a video on a Cattle Panet chicken coop.

Pretty much similar to the Cattle Panel Greenhouse. If we do this, and we do ducks instead of chicken, it would have a plastic pond or two, made out of plastic children's swimming pools or pre-formed Koi Ponds. There would be a water pump to pump out the nutrient rich water from the pond (ducks poop in the pond, the water is very nutrient rich, so that would go to the garden and greenhouse as fertilized water. I already have water and electricity at the garden so not too much of a stretch to reach out to the potential greenhouse and potential coop.

Seriously, am I crazy at nearly 65 years old to start a homestead? Bear in mind I also run a non-profit fencing club, 3 days per week all year, also travel 90 minutes to Purdue University 3x per week to coach fencing during the school year, late August to April. Also travel 60+ minutes to Chicago 2x per MONTH to catch the University of Illinois/Chicago Campus fencing club from September to March. AND, a high school fencing club 1 afternoon per week from September to the 1st week dent of February.

We have all sorts of 'canning supplies' and a dehydrator. We've been canning and dehydrating produce for years, but not every year. And never have we 'processed' animals for food. So that would be an adjustment.

 

[bczoom]

Seriously, am I crazy at nearly 65 years old to start a homestead?

Well Bob, your current activity list is still pretty long. What you're proposing will take a fair amount of your time. I'd suggest you do it gradually.

For your chickens, ducks..., I'd suggest you look at portable pens. I think they're pretty cheap.
Here's one of the first sites on a search to give you an idea.

10 Best Portable Chicken Pens for Free-Range Birds That Enhance Welfare - FarmstandApp

Discover the top portable chicken pens for free-range birds, their benefits, key features, and tips for optimizing your flock's health and foraging!

www.farmstandapp.com

Something like this although there's a ton of different designs.

 

[Melensdad]

The Chicken "tractors" won't work for ducks, because ducks need a couple of baby pools. Honestly IF I do ducks, the eggs and meat would be good, but the shit water from ducks is great garden fertilizer. I've looked really hard at "Dutch Bucket" growing and the duck water would be liquid gold to cycle through the Dutch buckets, which would likely be used inside the hoop greenhouse.

 

[Melensdad]

Actually this looks like it might be a good choice for a greenhouse. Far less effort than than a "cattle panel" build and looks to be somewhat more durable. I'd still build ends, with windows and doors. I have a bunch of windows and a door.

Cattle panels at Tractor Supply are $33 plus shipping. 5 panels $165 and I have no way to cart them home, so I'd end up paying shipping to get them (roughly $200) or renting a trailer. Plastic sheeting for a 10 to 12' wide by 20' long greenhouse is roughly $50. Lumber would add to the price. So a $699 kit (free shipping) actually seems pretty reasonable and low effort too.

GrowIT® Heavy Duty Round Greenhouse

The GrowIT Heavy Duty Greenhouse with roll-up side vents deliver quality construction, quick and easy assembly and best in class value. Featuring 1 5/8 in. heavy duty all-steel frame, patent pending ShelterLock Stabilizers, Ratchet Tite tensioning, and the Easy Slide Cross Rail System for a...

www.shelterlogic.com

 

[Melensdad]

The wood stakes out in the grass are roughly where I'd probably put a greenhouse.

Can't see it in the photo, but the elevation drops about 18" from that farthest bed to the first stakes in the grass. Distance is probably about 20' from the farthest bed to the first stakes. But then the land is basically flat all the way back to the tree line.

If I did a coop for ducks or chickens, at some point in the future, it would likely be to the left of stakes. And probably spaced far enough away to allow the big tractor to mow between them. Maybe a mowing lane, then a row of blueberry bushes, then another mowing lane then a potential future coop?

 

[Kevlar]

Give it a try, I don't think you'd regret it. I've always lived on a farm, what you're thinking of doing isn't that hard to look after, I've had chickens for at least 10 years now and love having them, they are layers, not meat so I don't have to process them. Not a huge commitment but does make getting away for more than a few days a little bit difficult. And just remember that almost everything will try to kill them.

Gardening is relaxing and eating what you grow is satisfying. I don't have a big garden but it's nice to get what i do from it. Mine didn't do well this year, not sure if it's because of all the smoke, but most years it can grow a good chunk of what we eat in a year. I mostly grow stuff that stores good without preserving because I don't have time for that because I grain farm and that usually consumes my time until freeze up and my wife doesn't enjoy doing that.

The nice thing about doing what you're thinking of doing is you can make it fit for what works for you, you aren't relying on it for survival. Something about getting back to the basics of life is very rewarding, as I get older, I'm 47 right now, I see the importance of that.

 

[Melensdad]

Well I am seriously more focused on plant/veggie/fruit production than protein production, but I have to say, after looking at protein sources, the Muskovy "duck" (technically they are not actually ducks. . . but I don't know why not) look like they would be better than chickens. Bigger eggs, less angry, actually friendly, and I like duck meat better.
Looks interesting. Should I do poultry, I was already set on ducks over chickens.



Seems like the Muscovy has some serious advantages. They seem to be tough as nails, have excellent meat and they're good layers. They're less dependent on water then most ducks and, as an added bonus, they don't quack. They're nearly silent. I could be wrong, and looks like they are not descended from mallards, which are generally loud.

They also seem to actually be very friendly and more like pets if you keep them around. So the younger ones are harvested for meat. The older ones are kept for eggs and get to be friendly pets that eat pests while not destroying the garden.

AGAIN, to me, plants come first, but maybe fowl in the future.

A Dutch Bucket hydroponic system has been in my mind for several years, just not gotten around to it, largely space, start up effort, etc. It requires power and water and a structure. But the possible expansion could do that as I'd only have to add some sort of a hoop house since I have water and electricity in close proximity.



But this is a good read on Muscovy Ducks:

https://thetinylife.com/complete-guide-to-muscovy-ducks/

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

Adopted two Muscovy ducks. Worst things ever. Had to keep them separate from the chickens. Smelly too.

They did taste good with an orange sauce though.

 

[Big Dog]

My wife won't let me have chickens! .......

 

[Kevlar]

Tell her that she can have the big cock!!! (Rooster)

 

[Big Dog]

Tell her that she can have the big cock!!! (Rooster)

Be too new to her!

 

[Melensdad]

My wife won't let me have chickens! .......

Mine wanted them a couple years ago and I vetoed it. But other fowl I could support. Ducks seem like the good compromise if we do go for a coop. Especially if we have a large enclosed run and small number of birds.

Free range here would simply be feeding the coyotes and feral cats. So a coop sitting on the end of 10 foot wide by 20+ foot long cattle fence tunnel seems like a good solution. Wire over the 'hooped' cattle panels with some chicken wire and the birds are secure from any predator we have out here except humans.

 

[bczoom]

You know the price of the coop, feed, time... will be more expensive than a lifetime supply of chicken from the store.
I get it, self-sufficient. I'm that way too but I know my limits. I buy a side of beef at a time, but I won't grow cattle myself.

 

[waybomb]

Look up "free range".
It's an open air fencd in area. Size depending on the main coop.
Been to Tyson farms. The birds generally stay inside even though there is every opportunity to go free range of about 1000 sq ft for a barn that holds many many thousands of birds.

 

[Melensdad]

You know the price of the coop, feed, time... will be more expensive than a lifetime supply of chicken from the store.
I get it, self-sufficient. I'm that way too but I know my limits. I buy a side of beef at a time, but I won't grow cattle myself.

This is not about making a profit on the birds or offsetting costs but more just self satisfaction and if I can supplement more food, while having fun 'working' in the yard, that is all I am looking to get out of it. I have no grandiose ideas of going off grid and cutting ties with the world so that I am totally self sufficient. I'm 64, I like central A/C and creature comforts. But I also really enjoy tractor time, garden time and working the property.

A friend, who is a fencing coach, needed to pick up some equipment from he, he is 38 and we walked some of the property talking and he was like "you can hire guys" and "a landscape crew" and other stuff like that when I would show him things like the retaining walls I built, the stone staircase, etc etc etc. He finally said, I get it, self satisfaction.

Look up "free range".
It's an open air fencd in area. Size depending on the main coop.
Been to Tyson farms. The birds generally stay inside even though there is every opportunity to go free range of about 1000 sq ft for a barn that holds many many thousands of birds.

Organic ain't what it used to be either.

But there are some neighbors that free range, in the traditional sense, their birds and say they see the occasional coyote walking off with one of their birds. Given the amount of tree line, woods and water that i have the coyotes are all over this property. Any birds, should we add them, would be in a protected 'cage'.

 

[FrancSevin]

I assume you are going to have raised beds in and out of the green house. For us old guys, that is a must. The effort is worth the later comforts of planting seed and young starts, pulling weeds, and picking produce. You would think "no weeds" but somehow, they get in.

4X4's and 6X6's suit the purpose, create a place to sit and are easy. Except for the ground piece, untreated works fine and is better for the produce you plan to eat. The treated wood has chemicals will leach into the soil.

I mix 1 part compost, to 1 part sand, to 2 parts cheapest potting soil. Fertilize with10/10/10 annually. Inside the greenhouse you'll have little wind, so use lighter soils as they are better for the plants. And, of course, rotate your crops every year. Plant beans once every three years to improve the soil. They are cheaper than commercial fertilizers and taste much better.

I see you are considering a "tent" style structure. I had one a Hippie ridge. It went down the first winter. It had 1 1/2" steel pipe framing. Despite having a strong structure on either side, (twenty-foot shipping containers) it didn't last. Wind took it down, twice.

 

[m1west]

We have chickens, coop and all the crap was expencive and a lot of work to set it up. Had to have them in a jail due to the, hawks, cats, dogs, raccoons, bob cats and coyotes, if you free range around here you would replace them everyday. 2 died when it hit 117 a couple years ago, we use misters and it helps. They handle cold ok but heat can take them out quickly. We still get plenty of eggs, iwe decided when the ones we have now are gone we will be out of the egg business.

 

[Melensdad]

We have chickens, coop and all the crap was expencive and a lot of work to set it up. Had to have them in a jail due to the, hawks, cats, dogs, raccoons, bob cats and coyotes, if you free range around here you would replace them everyday. 2 died when it hit 117 a couple years ago, we use misters and it helps. They handle cold ok but heat can take them out quickly. We still get plenty of eggs, iwe decided when the ones we have now are gone we will be out of the egg business.

Just curious, but how many chickens do you have?

 

[Melensdad]

I assume you are going to have raised beds in and out of the green house. For us old guys, that is a must. The effort is worth the later comforts of planting seed and young starts, pulling weeds, and picking produce. You would think "no weeds" but somehow, they get in.

4X4's and 6X6's suit the purpose, create a place to sit and are easy. Except for the ground piece, untreated works fine and is better for the produce you plan to eat. The treated wood has chemicals will leach into the soil.

I mix 1 part compost, to 1 part sand, to 2 parts cheapest potting soil. Fertilize with10/10/10 annually. Inside the greenhouse you'll have little wind, so use lighter soils as they are better for the plants. And, of course, rotate your crops every year. Plant beans once every three years to improve the soil. They are cheaper than commercial fertilizers and taste much better.

I see you are considering a "tent" style structure. I had one a Hippie ridge. It went down the first winter. It had 1 1/2" steel pipe framing. Despite having a strong structure on either side, (twenty-foot shipping containers) it didn't last. Wind took it down, twice.

NOPE not raised beds. Dutch Buckets.

I had a hoop style portable garage, it lasted years, that is why I'm looking at them again. Frame never had a problem, I think the cover lasted maybe 5-6 years. I ended up giving away the frame many years ago. Probably should have kept it.

 

[m1west]

Just curious, but how many chickens do you have?

4 of them left

 

[FrancSevin]

NOPE not raised beds. Dutch Buckets.

I had a hoop style portable garage, it lasted years, that is why I'm looking at them again. Frame never had a problem, I think the cover lasted maybe 5-6 years. I ended up giving away the frame many years ago. Probably should have kept it.

Buckets work however, it is hard to keep vigorous worms alive in them, proper and even watering, and they tend to freeze sooner than raised beds. They are, in fact, a lot more work.

However, there are advantages. Diseases are easily contained, and overall, less soil is required. However, one still has to bend over to service them. Feeding is also more of a chore.

Raised beds at 36" wide by 144 "long work out well, and you can sit on the edges.

 

[Melensdad]

Buckets work however, it is hard to keep vigorous worms alive in them . . .

There are zero worms in the buckets. This is a hydroponic system.

The 'soil' is typically a draining medium like expanded clay pebbles, vermiculite, etc. The nutrient rich water drips into the bucket on a timer interval, typically 4 to 8 times per day. The water drains back out of the bucket and is recycled into water reservoir where it can be pumped back through the buckets a couple hours later.

 

[FrancSevin]

There are zero worms in the buckets. This is a hydroponic system.

The 'soil' is typically a draining medium like expanded clay pebbles, vermiculite, etc. The nutrient rich water drips into the bucket on a timer interval, typically 4 to 8 times per day. The water drains back out of the bucket and is recycled into water reservoir where it can be pumped back through the buckets a couple hours later.

I am familiar with the system. A cross between Hydroponic and soil based gardening.

I am old school. So, my greenhouse utilizes soil-based buckets and pots.
This winter will be the first in a long time that we'll use if for vegies.
Traditionally it was no more than a conservatory.
I have tenders that cannot over-winter outside.
We are adding a Solarium off the kitchen.
Hoping it is done in time.