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Like Edward Snowden, Benjamin Franklin Was Called a Traitor For Informing the People

Bamby

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Benjamin Franklin Was Called a Traitor For Informing the People About the Actions of its Government

The Washington Times notes:

In 1773, Benjamin Franklin leaked confidential information by releasing letters written by then Lt. Governor of Massachusetts Thomas Hutchinson and his secretary Andrew Oliver to Thomas Whatley, an assistant to the British prime minister.

The letters contained opinions on how the British government should respond to colonial unrest over the Townsend Acts and other unpopular policies. Hutchinson suggested that it was impossible for the colonists to enjoy the same rights as subjects living in England and that “an abridgement of what are called English liberties” might be necessary.

The content of the letters was damaging to the British government. Franklin was dismissed as colonial Postmaster General and endured an hour-long censure from British Solicitor General Alexander Wedderburn.

Like Snowden, Franklin was called a traitor for informing the people about the actions of its government. As Franklin’s biographer H.W. Brands writes;

“For an hour he hurled invective at Franklin, branding him a liar, a thief, the instigator of the insurrection in Massachusetts, an outcast from the company of all honest men, an ingrate whose attack on Hutchinson betrayed nothing less than a desire to seize the governor’s office for himself. So slanderous was Wedderburn’s diatribe that no London paper would print it.”

Tyrants slandering patriots is nothing new. History decided that Franklin was a patriot. It was not so kind to the Hutchinsons and Wedderburns.

History will decide who the patriots were in the 21st century as well.
Ray McGovern – a 27-year CIA veteran, who chaired National Intelligence Estimates and personally delivered intelligence briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, their Vice Presidents, Secretaries of State, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and many other senior government officials- agrees:

Like Edward Snowden, Franklin was called a traitor for whistleblowing the truth about what the government was doing
Indeed, while Snowden is treated as a traitor by the fatcats and elites, he is considered a hero by the American public and members of the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of government have all praised the debate on spying which Snowden’s leaks started.


And experts say that the type of spying the NSA is doing is exactly the kind of thing which King George imposed on the American colonists … which led to the Revolutionary War.


And what does the fact that some officials within the American government consider the Founding Fathers to be terrorists say about the current state of affairs?

George Washington's blog
 
Hardly comparable. And certainly not by that standard

franklin didn't leave the country and go live with the enemy.

Jesus brought the truth to the people also. Neither Snowden or Franklin compare.
 
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Hardly comparable. And certainly not by that standrd

franklin didn't leave the country and go live with the enemy.

Fact is he did in fact leave the country. Franklin in reality was a loyal British subject until subjected to circumstances that turned him around. Fact is maybe he was more like Snowden than not...

From Subject to Citizen - The Political Transformation of Benjamin Franklin

In 1757 Benjamin Franklin arrived in London a British gentleman of the Empire – a loyal subject to His Majesty the King. He departed in March 1775 a radical republican, a man dedicated to separating his country of birth from its motherland. How did Franklin arrive at that end? How and why did he transform from loyal subject of a crown to citizen of a republic?


Franklin’s initial response to parliamentary legislation toward the American colonies was moderate and he attempted to bridge the differences between the sides and explain one to the other. When parliament tried to raise revenue to offset losses during the Seven Years War through the 1764 Sugar Act, Franklin’s response to Americans was that they should work harder to offset that new tax. Yet he also issued a cautionary note to British leaders that too heavy tax burdens on Americans could only, in the long-run, hurt imperial trade.


Franklin initially accepted the 1765 Stamp Act and acquired for his Pennsylvania friend, John Hughes, the royal position of stamp commissioner. In this case, Franklin badly misread opinion in America.



Riots occurred throughout the colonies due to the imposition of this internal tax, and even Franklin’s Philadelphia home was the scene of protests.


Standing before the House of Commons in 1766 on the issue of repealing the Stamp Act, Franklin reversed his acceptance of the tax and requested repeal. When indeed parliament did repeal the Stamp Act, Franklin saw this as evidence that the Empire did work well as a political unit and that American interests did have a legitimate voice in imperial governance.


Franklin’s standing among British leaders and his own view of America’s future within the British Empire began to change with his January 1771 meeting with Lord Hillsborough, then Secretary of State for the Colonies. Hillsborough refused to accept Franklin’s diplomatic credentials as agent for Massachusetts because they were given by the Massachusetts assembly and not the Royal Governor. This was the first of many snubs Franklin was to receive on his road to republicanism.


The most spectacular miscalculation Franklin made and the one which was his turning point to rebellion, was the Hutchison Affair. In 1772 an anonymous source gave Franklin letters written by Massachusetts Royal Governor Thomas Hutchison. These letters from Hutchison to London authorities suggested the curtailment of English liberties for Massachusetts citizens in order to squash growing unrest. Franklin sent these letters confidentially to dissident leaders in Massachusetts as proof that the threat to liberty did not emanate from London, but from in-country authorities. When the letters were made public and Franklin admitted to having sent the letters to Massachusetts, he was called before the Privy Council where Solicitor General Alexander Wedderburn publicly humiliated Franklin.


On January 29, 1774, Franklin entered the Cockpit and stood before the Privy Council a humbled but still loyal subject of the King. He left Whitehall that day humiliated, and a transformed revolutionary.


He made once last attempt at reconciliation, working with Pitt, Lord Chatham, on legislation that would reconcile the American colonies to parliament. When that legislation failed in February 1775, Franklin knew all hope was lost. Benjamin Franklin departed London on March 20, 1775, sailing home to Philadelphia where he joined the Second Continental Congress as revolutionary sage and editor to Thomas Jefferson and the Declaration of Independence.


By Dr. Steve Neiheisel of St. Mary’s University in Texas
 
Fact is he did in fact leave the country. Franklin in reality was a loyal British subject until subjected to circumstances that turned him around. Fact is maybe he was more like Snowden than not...

From Subject to Citizen - The Political Transformation of Benjamin Franklin

In 1757 Benjamin Franklin arrived in London a British gentleman of the Empire – a loyal subject to His Majesty the King. He departed in March 1775 a radical republican, a man dedicated to separating his country of birth from its motherland. How did Franklin arrive at that end? How and why did he transform from loyal subject of a crown to citizen of a republic?

Franklin’s initial response to parliamentary legislation toward the American colonies was moderate and he attempted to bridge the differences between the sides and explain one to the other. When parliament tried to raise revenue to offset losses during the Seven Years War through the 1764 Sugar Act, Franklin’s response to Americans was that they should work harder to offset that new tax. Yet he also issued a cautionary note to British leaders that too heavy tax burdens on Americans could only, in the long-run, hurt imperial trade.


Franklin initially accepted the 1765 Stamp Act and acquired for his Pennsylvania friend, John Hughes, the royal position of stamp commissioner. In this case, Franklin badly misread opinion in America.



Riots occurred throughout the colonies due to the imposition of this internal tax, and even Franklin’s Philadelphia home was the scene of protests.


Standing before the House of Commons in 1766 on the issue of repealing the Stamp Act, Franklin reversed his acceptance of the tax and requested repeal. When indeed parliament did repeal the Stamp Act, Franklin saw this as evidence that the Empire did work well as a political unit and that American interests did have a legitimate voice in imperial governance.


Franklin’s standing among British leaders and his own view of America’s future within the British Empire began to change with his January 1771 meeting with Lord Hillsborough, then Secretary of State for the Colonies. Hillsborough refused to accept Franklin’s diplomatic credentials as agent for Massachusetts because they were given by the Massachusetts assembly and not the Royal Governor. This was the first of many snubs Franklin was to receive on his road to republicanism.


The most spectacular miscalculation Franklin made and the one which was his turning point to rebellion, was the Hutchison Affair. In 1772 an anonymous source gave Franklin letters written by Massachusetts Royal Governor Thomas Hutchison. These letters from Hutchison to London authorities suggested the curtailment of English liberties for Massachusetts citizens in order to squash growing unrest. Franklin sent these letters confidentially to dissident leaders in Massachusetts as proof that the threat to liberty did not emanate from London, but from in-country authorities. When the letters were made public and Franklin admitted to having sent the letters to Massachusetts, he was called before the Privy Council where Solicitor General Alexander Wedderburn publicly humiliated Franklin.


On January 29, 1774, Franklin entered the Cockpit and stood before the Privy Council a humbled but still loyal subject of the King. He left Whitehall that day humiliated, and a transformed revolutionary.


He made once last attempt at reconciliation, working with Pitt, Lord Chatham, on legislation that would reconcile the American colonies to parliament. When that legislation failed in February 1775, Franklin knew all hope was lost. Benjamin Franklin departed London on March 20, 1775, sailing home to Philadelphia where he joined the Second Continental Congress as revolutionary sage and editor to Thomas Jefferson and the Declaration of Independence.


By Dr. Steve Neiheisel of St. Mary’s University in Texas

PALEEEESE. We all know the history of Ben Franklin. He didn't leave
for the purpose of hiding from the authorities after spilling state secrets. He actually became a diplomat exchanging communications to both England and France from the emerging Colonial nation of the 13 states.

And all of the things listed here show he was dramatically different than Snowden who has done nothing but hide in Russia.

You're readers are smarter than that,,,,and you're better than that. Bamby
 
PALEEEESE. We all know the history of Ben Franklin. He didn't leave
for the purpose of hiding from the authorities after spilling state secrets. He actually became a diplomat exchanging communications to both England and France from the emerging Colonial nation of the 13 states.

And all of the things listed here show he was dramatically different than Snowden who has done nothing but hide in Russia.

You're readers are smarter than that,,,,and you're better than that. Bamby

I don't think of Snowden as a hero persay, but he did flip rocks over and put light in dark places. Most of the people I know think very highly of him, as do I.

But as far as him leaving America after releasing the data... I think if he hadn't, he would still be in prision awaiting trial rotting away. So I don't really have a beef with his leaving the U.S. for self preservation. The Government has no business spying on free people unless they did something that directly warrants it, and it is approved by a real Judge in a real Court, not this "Secret" crap we are seeing now.
 
I don't think of Snowden as a hero persay, but he did flip rocks over and put light in dark places. Most of the people I know think very highly of him, as do I.

But as far as him leaving America after releasing the data... I think if he hadn't, he would still be in prision awaiting trial rotting away. So I don't really have a beef with his leaving the U.S. for self preservation. The Government has no business spying on free people unless they did something that directly warrants it, and it is approved by a real Judge in a real Court, not this "Secret" crap we are seeing now.


To what nations did the man go with sensitive information in his luggage?
Given history and current relations, Snowden would have been safe as a deserter in Canada. Instead, I believe him to be a traitor now hiding in Russia.

The beans he spilled may be useful. But there are plenty of organizations who could have facilitated his safety and published it right here in the USA.

Meanwhile the comparison of him to any of our Founders is ridiculous and insulting to their memory. Keep in mind he told our enemiesfirst. Just as Benedict Arnold told the British about Fort West Point. For the record, about one third of the colonists thought he was right at the time.
 
Franc, there are some potentially unfavorable things that can be said about Franklin, but who among us can say that he has no
such things in his past? Certainly not I!

And trying to compare Snowden to Franklin is like comparing apples and stove bolts; ridiculous on the face of it!! :hammer:

 
Franc, there are some potentially unfavorable things that can be said about Franklin, but who among us can say that he has no
such things in his past? Certainly not I!

And trying to compare Snowden to Franklin is like comparing apples and stove bolts; ridiculous on the face of it!! :hammer:

I understand DS.

Ben Franklin, along with most all of thether Founders, were flawed men.

I do not believe I have made a saint of Ben Franklin.
All I am saying is this. Please, let us not rationalize beyond reason and make a Ben Franklin out of Snowden.
 
I understand DS.

Ben Franklin, along with most all of thether Founders, were flawed men.

I do not believe I have made a saint of Ben Franklin.
All I am saying is this. Please, let us not rationalize beyond reason and make a Ben Franklin out of Snowden.


As noted in my last sentence. :biggrin::flowers:

 
To what nations did the man go with sensitive information in his luggage?
Given history and current relations, Snowden would have been safe as a deserter in Canada. Instead, I believe him to be a traitor now hiding in Russia.

The beans he spilled may be useful. But there are plenty of organizations who could have facilitated his safety and published it right here in the USA.

Meanwhile the comparison of him to any of our Founders is ridiculous and insulting to their memory. Keep in mind he told our enemiesfirst. Just as Benedict Arnold told the British about Fort West Point. For the record, about one third of the colonists thought he was right at the time.

At this point, I don't care where Snowden went, we have more traitors here than anywhere he went in our own Government.

Our beloved Government has been lying to us for decades now, and it took someone like Snowden to bring that darkness to the light.

Politicions (including Obama) now claim that they are checking into the aligations as if they never knew about them to start with, which clearly is a flat out lie.

Had it not been for Snowden, we would have been totally ignorant of what the Government is doing and spying on our people that clearly have done nothing but be a good citizen of the United States. The "Secret Court" system to sign bogus warrants are a farce and not legal under the Constatution, but are being hailed as such by the folks that are suppose to be looking out for us, not at us.

Snowden isn't a saint and I don't aggree to all that he did, but he did all of us a service by showing what traitors we have in our government that are distroying America from within.

Now as an added bonus, all our medical history is going to be on the web, in a system that is totally inept at even getting people to sign up, much less provide a real service.

We are in 1930's Germany and it won't end well.... Our own NSA would make the SS cry...
 
I don't think of Snowden as a hero persay, but he did flip rocks over and put light in dark places. Most of the people I know think very highly of him, as do I.

But as far as him leaving America after releasing the data... I think if he hadn't, he would still be in prision awaiting trial rotting away. So I don't really have a beef with his leaving the U.S. for self preservation. The Government has no business spying on free people unless they did something that directly warrants it, and it is approved by a real Judge in a real Court, not this "Secret" crap we are seeing now.

:applause:

We as citizens don't have far to look as to who our "real enemy's are" they aren't a foreign nation or hiding or overseas or even Muslims. Our biggest threat is ourselves and the sorry bunch of traitors that somehow always get elected to represent us.

BenFranklinvBarackObamaOnFreedomLibertySecurity.jpg
 
At this point, I don't care where Snowden went, we have more traitors here than anywhere he went in our own Government.

Our beloved Government has been lying to us for decades now, and it took someone like Snowden to bring that darkness to the light.

Politicions (including Obama) now claim that they are checking into the aligations as if they never knew about them to start with, which clearly is a flat out lie.

Had it not been for Snowden, we would have been totally ignorant of what the Government is doing and spying on our people that clearly have done nothing but be a good citizen of the United States. The "Secret Court" system to sign bogus warrants are a farce and not legal under the Constatution, but are being hailed as such by the folks that are suppose to be looking out for us, not at us.

Snowden isn't a saint and I don't aggree to all that he did, but he did all of us a service by showing what traitors we have in our government that are distroying America from within.

Now as an added bonus, all our medical history is going to be on the web, in a system that is totally inept at even getting people to sign up, much less provide a real service.

We are in 1930's Germany and it won't end well.... Our own NSA would make the SS cry...

I disagree. "Had it not been for Snowden???"

That's like sayin' if it had not been for Pearl Harbor we wouldn't have known about the Japanese imperialism in the Far East.

Come on guys. This spying on Americans was well known. Any ideas as to how many Americans were working at the NSA?

Read old posts here and on other political discussion sites. What Snowden revealed was spoken of frequently long before his name became a household word. And the subject was always spoofed as conspiracy theories. But anyone with a pulse could see the truth if they wanted to. Most of us just wouldn't admit to ourselves tht it was true. Just like the atrocities in Asia, and Europe.


Like Corporal Manning telling the world military secrets and plans, Snowden simply made it impossible for the left to deny them. Even though they still do. And at the risk of calling Manning a hero, HE IS ROTTING IN JAIL.

Snowden's actions, the route he chose to be heroic, put him in Russia where Putin now has him on a chain. And Putin has no trouble bringing him out to tease the USA before the whole world.

I doubt there will be a statue in honor of Snowden in our capital.
 
:applause:

We as citizens don't have far to look as to who our "real enemy's are" they aren't a foreign nation or hiding or overseas or even Muslims. Our biggest threat is ourselves and the sorry bunch of traitors that somehow always get elected to represent us.

View attachment 69714


These words are undeniable Bamby. And since our nation's fragile founding, they have always been true. But for the courage of men of good will, the Republic would have suffered demise at any time through out it's 237 years.

Liberty is inconvenient. It must be maintained by vigilance, hard work, and sacrifice. Many who do so spend time in our prisons. Martin L King comes to mind.
 
I disagree. "Had it not been for Snowden???"

That's like sayin' if it had not been for Pearl Harbor we wouldn't have known about the Japanese imperialism in the Far East.

Come on guys. This spying on Americans was well known. Any ideas as to how many Americans were working at the NSA?

Read old posts here and on other political discussion sites. What Snowden revealed was spoken of frequently long before his name became a household word. And the subject was always spoofed as conspiracy theories. But anyone with a pulse could see the truth if they wanted to. Most of us just wouldn't admit to ourselves tht it was true. Just like the atrocities in Asia, and Europe.


Like Corporal Manning telling the world military secrets and plans, Snowden simply made it impossible for the left to deny them. Even though they still do. And at the risk of calling Manning a hero, HE IS ROTTING IN JAIL.

Snowden's actions, the route he chose to be heroic, put him in Russia where Putin now has him on a chain. And Putin has no trouble bringing him out to tease the USA before the whole world.

I doubt there will be a statue in honor of Snowden in our capital.


The fact that we are now talking about this proves a point, Snowden brought the sheeple of America out of their haze and are now aware of how corrupt the Government has become. He can stay in Russia for all I care, but he let the dragons out of the box, and now the next election cycle will be very interesting to say the least...

I certainly wouldn't want to be him, but at the same time in thirty years, he may well have a lot of statues of him around after the dust settles.

Even Benjamin was concidered a traitor by the British and would have hung him had they had the chance. Even he has statues all over the place....
 
The fact that we are now talking about this proves a point, Snowden brought the sheeple of America out of their haze and are now aware of how corrupt the Government has become. He can stay in Russia for all I care, but he let the dragons out of the box, and now the next election cycle will be very interesting to say the least...

I certainly wouldn't want to be him, but at the same time in thirty years, he may well have a lot of statues of him around after the dust settles.

Even Benjamin was concidered a traitor by the British and would have hung him had they had the chance. Even he has statues all over the place....



We are talking about what he released, yes. That makes him a whistle blower at best. A traitor at worst. But it does not make him a Hero.

And I doubt Ben Franklin has any statues in England. By your analogy Hong Kong and Russia may honor Snowden. But not the USA.
 
We are talking about what he released, yes. That makes him a whistle blower at best. A traitor at worst. But it does not make him a Hero.

And I doubt Ben Franklin has any statues in England. By your analogy Hong Kong and Russia may honor Snowden. But not the USA.

Nope, I doubt that Snowden will have any real accolades right now, but in due time as people get to realize what he did, they will come to like him more and more, as I said, it may take decades. But he will be a hero in history.
 
Nope, I doubt that Snowden will have any real accolades right now, but in due time as people get to realize what he did, they will come to like him more and more, as I said, it may take decades. But he will be a hero in history.

I cannot deny the sheer possibility of your prediction. At least half our nation still believes Obama is a patriot.
 
Curious as to what information you think he gave them that they don't have already?

I'm sure the Chineese and the Russians respected our Sveriegnty and did not aquire anything Snowden had in his "luggage.":rolleyes:
The both extended their hospitality:flowers: to him cause they are such good guys.:yum:

Truth is, we do not know. Only NSA knows and they aren't talking.:glare:
 
I'm sure the Chineese and the Russians respected our Sveriegnty and did not aquire anything Snowden had in his "luggage.":rolleyes:


Truth is, we do not know. Only NSA knows and they aren't talking.:glare:
It's easy to hide stuff from the citizens, we want to believe our government is our friend. But it's unlikely Russia would wear the same blinders, meaning I doubt Snowden gave them anything they didn't already know.
 
It's easy to hide stuff from the citizens, we want to believe our government is our friend. But it's unlikely Russia would wear the same blinders, meaning I doubt Snowden gave them anything they didn't already know.
Tht simply is not a cofidence I can share with you. Snowdenn had access to a lot of data. Hes was supposedly and expert. What he had in his possesion had value to countries that are not our friends.

There is no logic to the assumption he told them nothing beyond what he exposed to the public after he reached the relative safety of Hong Kong.
 
Tht simply is not a cofidence I can share with you. Snowdenn had access to a lot of data. Hes was supposedly and expert. What he had in his possesion had value to countries that are not our friends.

There is no logic to the assumption he told them nothing beyond what he exposed to the public after he reached the relative safety of Hong Kong.
I dunno, gents. My guess is, as a condition of asylum and getting out of the Moscow airport lounge, the Ruskies have a copy of every hard drive, DVD and thumb drive Snowden had on him.

The Ruskies have no Fourth Amedment. But they do have an intelligence agency that probably already knows everything Snowden knows. They know who shot Kennedy and where Obama was born.
 
Agreed that no good came from him giving Russia and China the goods. But what's more scary than that (to me anyway) is so very few US citizens gave 2 winks about NSA gathering everyone's email, contact lists, cell phone conversation and God knows what else. The people's silence and the silence of our so called "representatives" is astounding.

I really don't know that we get back from here. When the people quit caring there is no one else to save us. I would have thought there would be protests in every city and especially in front of the white house. But nothing. So regardless of how you see Snowden, he just wasted his life proving to the government that they can do whatever they wish and that there is nobody to hold them accountable.
 
Agreed that no good came from him giving Russia and China the goods. But what's more scary than that (to me anyway) is so very few US citizens gave 2 winks about NSA gathering everyone's email, contact lists, cell phone conversation and God knows what else. The people's silence and the silence of our so called "representatives" is astounding.

I really don't know that we get back from here. When the people quit caring there is no one else to save us. I would have thought there would be protests in every city and especially in front of the white house. But nothing. So regardless of how you see Snowden, he just wasted his life proving to the government that they can do whatever they wish and that there is nobody to hold them accountable.
Yeah, that's a shame squerly. And you're right: we don't come back once the people don't care.

If the progressives take the House and keep the Senate in 2014, fuck it, I'm moving to Costa Rica. Being an expat has a nice ring to it.
 
Agreed that no good came from him giving Russia and China the goods. But what's more scary than that (to me anyway) is so very few US citizens gave 2 winks about NSA gathering everyone's email, contact lists, cell phone conversation and God knows what else. The people's silence and the silence of our so called "representatives" is astounding.

I really don't know that we get back from here. When the people quit caring there is no one else to save us. I would have thought there would be protests in every city and especially in front of the white house. But nothing. So regardless of how you see Snowden, he just wasted his life proving to the government that they can do whatever they wish and that there is nobody to hold them accountable.

I absolutely agree. And what you have described is exactly why I do not see a future with any memorial Statues in honor of Edward Snowden.
 
Since it it clear that Snowden is good with computers, I would bet that the majority of the info that he has downloaded didn't go with him to China or Russia... Yeah, I bet he had a lot, but the internet is now just too vast and there is way too many places on it where one can hide encripted files.

It has already been stated that if something happened to him there would be a massive data release, like a poison pill you might say.

Just to carry all that info around in ones laptop going to countries that aren't part of the "Good guy" system would bet he has his stuff secure elsewhere.

Hell, he could have just downloaded it all to a normal backup file server in a cloud system somewhere or on a site like Carbonite.

Time will tell.
 
I absolutely agree. And what you have described is exactly why I do not see a future with any memorial Statues in honor of Edward Snowden.
Well, the courts are beginning to rule that NSA super-secret domestic spying is unconstitutional, if not Orwellian, in direct violation of the 4th. Snowden will be vindicated not as a traitor, but as a true whistleblower. A true patriot.

Some say Snowden should be named 2013 Man of the Year, maybe even honor him with a statue.

What say you?
 
Patriot and hero.
Somebody has to defend the constitution; certainly our elected asshats do not.
 
Well, the courts are beginning to rule that NSA super-secret domestic spying is unconstitutional, if not Orwellian, in direct violation of the 4th. Snowden will be vindicated not as a traitor, but as a true whistleblower. A true patriot.

Some say Snowden should be named 2013 Man of the Year, maybe even honor him with a statue.

What say you?

This is bipartisan and very and clearly unconstitutional. I think you are exactly right!:clap:

Regards, Kirk
 
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