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Crude Oil soars, get ready guys!!!
- Thread starter Melensdad
- Start date
Kubota King
New member
interesting! That is good to know.
buy_25 said:
Point well made! Sometimes the truth hurts. People need to stop living and spending outside their means. That is an important lesson and sometimes it is a painful lesson.
Wannafish
Floppy Member
buy_25 said:
Mike
I know alot of people who's finances are spread so thin they do not have another $100 a month for fuel...or anything else for that matter. I'm a financial counselor for our local Love Inc chapter and can confirm there are alot of people (not just young ones either) trying their best to make it but these fuel prices are killing them. Not everyone who is low income makes poor choices in how they spend their money. I feel very fortunate I'm not in that group so I do what I can to help them.
As a business owner Bob surely sees this problem, so I can understand his feelings towards our comments.
RB
buy_25
Banned
I guess people need a wake up call since next year the prices will be higher. Then even higher the next year......There are not going to go back down, it does not work this way based on the past history.
If someone moves to the homelss side due to fuel prices, it was not fuel prices that put them over the edge. There is more to it then just fuel here.
If someone moves to the homelss side due to fuel prices, it was not fuel prices that put them over the edge. There is more to it then just fuel here.
Mike you just hit it on the head, they do have bigger issues. There is no one single issue that I can think of that stands alone without some interaction with other issues. Often people find themselves in situations, perhaps by their own choosing, where $100 is something that busts their budget. Lifestyle choices, vehicle choices, education and job choices, housing choices, these all come into play. I'm not trying to argue, but some folks are simply 'working poor' and barely getting by. Those higher gasoline prices, combined with higher electric and natural gas or fuel oil prices, do hurt them. I mean nothing more, nor nothing less. As I stated, they are dealing with 'it' by cutting back on driving, buying cheaper food, keeping their coats on inside their homes/apartments/trailers, not saving for their kids, etc.buy_25 said:
It is just simple math. If a hybrid gets 50% better fuel economy than the same version of the vehile, all you have to do is apply some simple numbers.KubotaKing said:
So lets say the vehicle gets 30mpg in gas, but 45 as a hybrid. Assume you drive 10,000 miles per year.
-10,000 divided by 30mpg = 333.33 gallons of gas used in the year.
-10,000 divided by 45mpg = 222.22 gallons of gas used in the year.
Difference = 111 gallons, so the Hybrid saves 111 gallons per year.
Assume $2.35 per gallon
Multiply 111 by 2.35 = $260.85 savings by driving the hybrid each year.
Assume 5 year life of the vehicle
$260.85 multiplied by 5 years = $1,304.25 fuel saved over 5 years.
Assume a GAS Honda Accord = $25,000
Assume a HYBRID Honda Accord = $30,000 (similarly equiped vehicles)
Cost difference = $5000
Total cost of ownership for 5 years =
GAS: $25,000 + $782.55 + $782.55 + $782.55 + $782.55 + $782.55 = $28,912.75
HYBRID: $30,000 + $521.70 + $521.70 + $521.70 + $521.70 + $521.70 = $32,608.50
Total difference = $3695.75
Assuming you keep the car for 10 years, the total cost of ownership =HYBRID: $30,000 + $521.70 + $521.70 + $521.70 + $521.70 + $521.70 = $32,608.50
Total difference = $3695.75
Gas: $25,000 + $7825.50 (for gasoline/$2.35gal) = $32,825.50
Hybrid: $30,000 + $5217.00 (for gasoline/$2.35gal) = $35,217.00
Total difference = $2391.50
Assuming gas prices go up to $3.35 per gallon the 5 year total cost of ownership=Hybrid: $30,000 + $5217.00 (for gasoline/$2.35gal) = $35,217.00
Total difference = $2391.50
GAS: $25,000 + $1115.55 (333gal x $3.35/gal)x 5yrs = $5577.75 = $30,577.75
HYBRID: $30,000 + $743.70 (222gal x $3.35/gal)x 5yrs= $3718.50 = $33,718.50
Assuming gas prices go up to $5 per gallon, the 5 year total cost of ownership=HYBRID: $30,000 + $743.70 (222gal x $3.35/gal)x 5yrs= $3718.50 = $33,718.50
GAS: $25,000 + $1665 (333gal x $5/gal)x 5yrs = $8325 = $33,325
HYBRID: $30,000 + $1110 (222gal x $5/gal) x 5yrs = $5550 = $35,550
Even at $5 per gallon, the GAS vehicle is over $2200 LESS expensive to operate!
HYBRID: $30,000 + $1110 (222gal x $5/gal) x 5yrs = $5550 = $35,550
Even at $5 per gallon, the GAS vehicle is over $2200 LESS expensive to operate!
Now this is simply my opinoin, but it strikes me that people who buy hybrid vehicles to save $$$ are simply stupid morons.
But people who choose to spend more money knowingly because they realize they are more expensive to operate but want to save the planet's resources are doing a fine, but economically stupid thing.- I did not factor in other consumables like oil, tires. belts, hoses, wipers etc. It would be reasonable to assume those costs would be equal on either vehicle.
- I also did not factor in INTEREST on a LOAN. Assuming the vehicle is financed, then you'd actually pay more interest on the higher loan, which would then mean the cost of the hybred vehicle would actually be even higher because you are financing an extra $5000. It would be reasonable to assume that the cost of financing $5000 over 5 years would cost the buyer an EXTRA $1000, even at a very modest interest rate.
DaveNay
Klaatu barada nikto
buy_25 said:
Mike, I am glad for you that you don't, or never have lived on the edge when it comes to you financial situation. I am very happy that you have the ability to completely disregard rising cost of living issues, even when faced with stagnant or declining income levels. It must be complete bliss to be wealthy enough the money literally "doesn't matter".
However, your complete disregard, and even disdain for those people who are in those situations is quite alarming. Have you never heard of "the straw that broke the camels back"? There is always one last thing that puts a person or family over the edge. There is the family whos father just got laid off from the Delco Mfg plant, and he now has to drive 80 miles each way to get to the nearest available job. There is the retiree and his wife who suddenly lost their entire pension because some asshole investor spent it all on junk bonds, and now they are both working at McDonalds filling your drink cups at lunch. There is the recent college graduate who is still unable to find a job in todays market, and yet her student loans still have to be paid every month while she works at Starbucks for $7.50 an hour.
Attitudes like yours piss me off way more than any of the political banter around here, because you show a complete lack of compassion for the situation of your peers.
I usually don't tend to be a flag carrying patriotic nut case, but if attitudes like yours prevailed back in 1773, they would have all sat around and "just accepted" whatever England decided was best for the colonies, and we never would have progressed to where we are now. The whole idea is that if you don't like something, then you have the right and the ability to attempt to change the way it is.
Dargo
Like a bad penny...
As much as I see that most people living on the edge being a result of their own poor decisions and poor planning, there indeed are those who have been put into that situations by fate. I honestly think that these people are in the minority, but they do certainly exist and are in a precarious situation not because of any fault of their own. Many of these hardship cases I personally know of are due to an extreme medical condition that forced the family to drain their complete savings in order to save a loved one. Also, I'm not necessarily talking about those with no insurance, but those who are hit with non-covered huge expenses and co-pays, deductibles, etc. Not to try to expose a "soft" side of Mike, but I'd just be willing to bet that he would spend every penny he has if that is what it took to save the live of his new baby or his wife. He may not spend all of his money personally for himself in that situation, but I'd be willing to bet that he would for his family.
Again, I know that this is the exception, but not the rule. But those actual true exception cases are why I hesitate to make statements, that although are 90% dead on, that could be hurtful to the people who honestly put out all the effort they can and do not waste money on toys, trips, eating out every day, and other non essential things. Out of a few dozen people I personally know who are being squeezed by the increases in fuel costs, two of them are having a rough time due to circumstances beyond their control. They do not have any realistic ways to cut costs further and they work very hard to get by. Those exceptions are the reason that I just can't justify making a blanket statement.
As most people here probably know, I live very well and personally am not really impacted by the increases in energy costs. I don't like it, but it really doesn't hurt me. However, if it took every dime I have to save the live of any of my family members, I wouldn't hesitate for an instant. I would drop everything and even borrow as much as I could to ensure the well being of my family. If I were to have to do that, I would likely take offense to what can be viewed as calloused statements. I know that sounds like I'm trying to be PC, but I'm really not. As I said, I do know two people in that situation and I have proven to them that I am there to offer any support that they will allow. Some people on here will know of specific instances where I have not hesitated to open my checkbook and offer help. I don't want any of those cases mentioned if you are one who knows what I'm talking about. I'd prefer to remain anonymous on those cases. In doing so, you know the funny thing? Those who honestly need a helping hand to get back on their feet are the ones who are most hesitant to accept the help. Those who I feel are in the majority of the people who put themselves into this "on the edge" situation because of greed and poor work habits seem to be the first to squeak and stick out their hand for a hand out; not a hand up.
Anyway, that's my take on it and why I am hesitant to make statements without conditions attached to those statements. As cold as it may seem, I think most of those people need a bit of hard love, but others very well deserve a helping hand and I will not look down on those people. I certainly hope not, but with my hard wired view on doing anything for my wife and kids, it is possible that I could someday fall off of my horse and be one of those who honestly need a helping hand to get back on my feet. If I ever have that happen, I wouldn't want pity, but an honest helping hand would be a heartwarming gesture. Just my thoughts.
Again, I know that this is the exception, but not the rule. But those actual true exception cases are why I hesitate to make statements, that although are 90% dead on, that could be hurtful to the people who honestly put out all the effort they can and do not waste money on toys, trips, eating out every day, and other non essential things. Out of a few dozen people I personally know who are being squeezed by the increases in fuel costs, two of them are having a rough time due to circumstances beyond their control. They do not have any realistic ways to cut costs further and they work very hard to get by. Those exceptions are the reason that I just can't justify making a blanket statement.
As most people here probably know, I live very well and personally am not really impacted by the increases in energy costs. I don't like it, but it really doesn't hurt me. However, if it took every dime I have to save the live of any of my family members, I wouldn't hesitate for an instant. I would drop everything and even borrow as much as I could to ensure the well being of my family. If I were to have to do that, I would likely take offense to what can be viewed as calloused statements. I know that sounds like I'm trying to be PC, but I'm really not. As I said, I do know two people in that situation and I have proven to them that I am there to offer any support that they will allow. Some people on here will know of specific instances where I have not hesitated to open my checkbook and offer help. I don't want any of those cases mentioned if you are one who knows what I'm talking about. I'd prefer to remain anonymous on those cases. In doing so, you know the funny thing? Those who honestly need a helping hand to get back on their feet are the ones who are most hesitant to accept the help. Those who I feel are in the majority of the people who put themselves into this "on the edge" situation because of greed and poor work habits seem to be the first to squeak and stick out their hand for a hand out; not a hand up.
Anyway, that's my take on it and why I am hesitant to make statements without conditions attached to those statements. As cold as it may seem, I think most of those people need a bit of hard love, but others very well deserve a helping hand and I will not look down on those people. I certainly hope not, but with my hard wired view on doing anything for my wife and kids, it is possible that I could someday fall off of my horse and be one of those who honestly need a helping hand to get back on my feet. If I ever have that happen, I wouldn't want pity, but an honest helping hand would be a heartwarming gesture. Just my thoughts.
buy_25
Banned
DaveNay said:
DaveNay said:
So because someone lost there job and goes 80 miles is my issue? I would only hope with his skill-set and education he can’t find anything closer? If not, you need to find another profession quick.
So now someone based there retirement on a pension. That is wrong move #1. Pensions are GIFTS and can be pulled out at anytime. I will get one and think it is a joke. Keep it. When I retire I plane on have nothing but what I do. If you base your income on that (pension), that is your bag; bad move as shown by you. I put my resume online and got, no lie, about 12 calls in 4 days for jobs. They are out there if you look and have the skills. If college grads can’t find work, well you selected the wrong major here, to bad.
When people whine it is like when people say, “ I will try to do my best”. Don’t try, DO IT!
You want compassion call someone who cares. You want to bitch and whine call Dr. Phil. You want compassion call a hotline. I live my life and work around what I need to. Compassion…you crack me up. Now I need people to make ME feel better!!!! ROFLMFAO! Too funny.
Again if you are that close to the “fine line”, again you have bigger issues then a little $100 increase in fuel….
[font="]Again in 6 months let me know if all your whining did something; 1,000,000 to 1 you are wasting your time. [/font]
So now someone based there retirement on a pension. That is wrong move #1. Pensions are GIFTS and can be pulled out at anytime. I will get one and think it is a joke. Keep it. When I retire I plane on have nothing but what I do. If you base your income on that (pension), that is your bag; bad move as shown by you. I put my resume online and got, no lie, about 12 calls in 4 days for jobs. They are out there if you look and have the skills. If college grads can’t find work, well you selected the wrong major here, to bad.
When people whine it is like when people say, “ I will try to do my best”. Don’t try, DO IT!
You want compassion call someone who cares. You want to bitch and whine call Dr. Phil. You want compassion call a hotline. I live my life and work around what I need to. Compassion…you crack me up. Now I need people to make ME feel better!!!! ROFLMFAO! Too funny.
Again if you are that close to the “fine line”, again you have bigger issues then a little $100 increase in fuel….
[font="]Again in 6 months let me know if all your whining did something; 1,000,000 to 1 you are wasting your time. [/font]
I know Mike doesn't need me to defend him but he is making valid points. The cost of fuel in Europe and other countries is much higher than the USA and the people over there are able to survive. Really, it's just ONE MORE factor that people need to consider when budgeting their day to day lives. Taking low fuel prices for granted is something every one should have learned about in the 70's. What is the saying about those who choose to ignore history?
Sometimes honesty sucks, hurts, and has no pity. It also takes guts to be honest. So my hat is off to Mike on this one. He is just making an honest point that is perhaps not a pleasant point.
Sometimes honesty sucks, hurts, and has no pity. It also takes guts to be honest. So my hat is off to Mike on this one. He is just making an honest point that is perhaps not a pleasant point.
PBinWA said:
While I totally agree with Mike's point, I think he is simply being callous toward others.
With regard to your above point that is one of the issues that I find to be more of a red herring. I hear it all the time and as a 'stand alone' point it is true, but the cost of living in many nations is totally different than it is here, based on totally different circumstances. Many things in Europe (depends on the nation) are heavily subsidized, while here in the US those things are very expensive. The converse is true with gas. We cannot logically compare JUST ONE THING and not take into account the other economic factors that may be far cheaper or far more expensive if we really want to consider the total economic effect.
B_Skurka said:
Point given to Bob. There is better population density and public transportation options in Europe too. However, they have also stayed with the smaller more fuel efficient vehicles . They don't generally race to buy hemi-powered station wagons like we do in the US.
buy_25
Banned
B_Skurka said:
Is "callous" your word of the day?? Like the Peewee herman show?
So now I need to be happy, kinder, gentler about someone who got to where they are based on their past! Did not know where where in the PC forum or in middle school. "Johnny me nice to Tony"..
Call the Oprah Winfrey Show and maybe you can get a 1 minute spot (if lucky) between my Bra does not work or I lost 300 lb since I can;t control myself!
DaveNay said:Mike, I am glad for you that you don't, or never have lived on the edge when it comes to you financial situation. I am very happy that you have the ability to completely disregard rising cost of living issues, even when faced with stagnant or declining income levels. It must be complete bliss to be wealthy enough the money literally "doesn't matter".
However, your complete disregard, and even disdain for those people who are in those situations is quite alarming. Have you never heard of "the straw that broke the camels back"? There is always one last thing that puts a person or family over the edge. There is the family whos father just got laid off from the Delco Mfg plant, and he now has to drive 80 miles each way to get to the nearest available job. There is the retiree and his wife who suddenly lost their entire pension because some asshole investor spent it all on junk bonds, and now they are both working at McDonalds filling your drink cups at lunch. There is the recent college graduate who is still unable to find a job in todays market, and yet her student loans still have to be paid every month while she works at Starbucks for $7.50 an hour.
Attitudes like yours piss me off way more than any of the political banter around here, because you show a complete lack of compassion for the situation of your peers.
I usually don't tend to be a flag carrying patriotic nut case, but if attitudes like yours prevailed back in 1773, they would have all sat around and "just accepted" whatever England decided was best for the colonies, and we never would have progressed to where we are now. The whole idea is that if you don't like something, then you have the right and the ability to attempt to change the way it is.
Ditto, well said Dave. I've read enough insensitive garb, reminds me of my distain for the Hollywood and Political elite! One of the points to be made is high gas prices don't only affect gas prices! The chit rolls down hill, consider transportation cost for thing you buy everyday and YOU suppliment because of high gas prices. It's contribution to unemployment, other utilities, fuels etc. etc....
!
buy_25 said:
Mike just got my vote for President! Of course, it's probably a good thing I'm not allowed to vote!
buy_25
Banned
That is great if they do, but I think (does not mean much), is they will flatline then be up to $2.50 or more by March.
Usually around here (this part of the state) it is 20 to 50 increase per year; depends on area and part of the year; these are averages.
**for gas**
6-2003 was around $1.80 per gallon.
6-2004 was around 2.00 per gallon (high end).
6-2005 was a little low, $2.10 per gallon
I paid paid 2.22 on the way to work at 5:00am on 1-2006.
Around $3.00 by 2006 December is not that far off. If the past means anything, or high $2.00 range.
Based on the past prices, they are too low and need to go up. If not a $0.60 jump in 3 year is, well, not bad at all
Now diesel owners...HE HE HE. How the tables have turned. You had your low fuel prices for years and we (gas) had higher prices; we had to deal with it. So........
Usually around here (this part of the state) it is 20 to 50 increase per year; depends on area and part of the year; these are averages.
**for gas**
6-2003 was around $1.80 per gallon.
6-2004 was around 2.00 per gallon (high end).
6-2005 was a little low, $2.10 per gallon
I paid paid 2.22 on the way to work at 5:00am on 1-2006.
Around $3.00 by 2006 December is not that far off. If the past means anything, or high $2.00 range.
Based on the past prices, they are too low and need to go up. If not a $0.60 jump in 3 year is, well, not bad at all
Now diesel owners...HE HE HE. How the tables have turned. You had your low fuel prices for years and we (gas) had higher prices; we had to deal with it. So........
Last edited:
OregonAlex
New member
Dargo said:Sex with small farm animals and actually paying for higher fuel costs.
I think both of these fall into the "take it in the ass" category.
buy_25
Banned
OhioTC18 said:
Not one person did. All the whiners about fuel prices is unreal...they are crying about a little hike in prices..boo hoo. Welcome to 2006!
[font="]It is unreal. They are whining about a little markup. Again 33 on my list of crap I can’t stand. Time to face the facts and grow up. Don’t like it, leave or do not buy fuel. No one is forcing you to buy it.
[/font][font="]I did not know I was on the Politically correct forum and had to be sensitive to all people. But if peope whine.......
As I view the noews and the same crap and state to myself, "don't worry if you can';t afford the home heating oil, we, the tax payers will yet again bail you out".
[/font][font="]Civility..it is called real life. Cry me a river.....[/font]