Joe, I hate to tell you this, but those guys weren't the OWS people. Those guys are part of what is known as the TEA PARTY.
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Benefits of Capitalism
- Thread starter Zorro
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Joe, I hate to tell you this, but those guys weren't the OWS people. Those guys are part of what is known as the TEA PARTY.
joec
New member
I told you their message a number of posts ago, it really is simple to figure out. They want a job that pays a wage they can live on and support a family in this country. Wages have been flat in this country for 30 years or so now for working people even with both a husband and wife working are struggling. Meanwhile the top 1% of the populations incomes have jumped over 200% in the same time frame.
It is about income inequity, government that is worried more about bailing out banks the big money but nothing for those that have worked hard to make a living and now have no jobs. There jobs have gone overseas to people that will work for change on the dollar. Now what else do you want as they are simply asking for an income they can buy the things they need to survive and not asking for a handout but a job. 14 million unemployed with a couple of 100 thousand low paying jobs a month available in this country. The number of jobs won't even keep up with population growth here.
I gave up Joe,,,
Here is what they said in an interview. I'll let the young man's word speak for themselves
They're a long way from Wall Street, but some people in Lexington are continuing to show their solidarity with protesters in New York who have been demonstrating in the Financial District for more than two weeks.
The Occupy Lexington Kentucky movement, modeled after Occupy Wall Street, started on Thursday, and Monday night saw a group still occupying the area outside Chase Tower on Main Street.
"We're here 'til the grievances are addressed," said Mike Davis, who was among about 30 people gathered in downtown Monday night.
Among their main concerns are what they describe as corporate greed and a disproportionate concentration of wealth.
"We are individuals gathered with voices in unison to make a stand for our right to the opportunity to live our best life," Davis said. "We want to shift the power back to the people."
The group temporarily hauled signs and a chalk board to a nearby parking lot for a "general assembly meeting" in which participants sat in a circle, using hand signals to indicate support or opposition to ideas.
The leaderless group has been using such meetings to make decisions about how to get its message out, Davis said. He described the process as "organic" and "spontaneous."
He said that at least 100 people have participated in the gathering each day; at least three people have camped out nightly downtown.
Stephen Shepard said he's been encouraged by the support the community has shown by honking horns, giving the thumbs-up sign and even dropping off pizzas and coffee as they pass by.
He said he's a University of Kentucky graduate loaded down with student-loan debt.
By contrast, Shepard said, when his parents' generation was at his stage of life, "the economy provided enough that they could buy a house."
"I think it's an uphill battle for our generation," he said.
The Occupy Lexington Kentucky movement, modeled after Occupy Wall Street, started on Thursday, and Monday night saw a group still occupying the area outside Chase Tower on Main Street.
"We're here 'til the grievances are addressed," said Mike Davis, who was among about 30 people gathered in downtown Monday night.
Among their main concerns are what they describe as corporate greed and a disproportionate concentration of wealth.
"We are individuals gathered with voices in unison to make a stand for our right to the opportunity to live our best life," Davis said. "We want to shift the power back to the people."
The group temporarily hauled signs and a chalk board to a nearby parking lot for a "general assembly meeting" in which participants sat in a circle, using hand signals to indicate support or opposition to ideas.
The leaderless group has been using such meetings to make decisions about how to get its message out, Davis said. He described the process as "organic" and "spontaneous."
He said that at least 100 people have participated in the gathering each day; at least three people have camped out nightly downtown.
Stephen Shepard said he's been encouraged by the support the community has shown by honking horns, giving the thumbs-up sign and even dropping off pizzas and coffee as they pass by.
He said he's a University of Kentucky graduate loaded down with student-loan debt.
By contrast, Shepard said, when his parents' generation was at his stage of life, "the economy provided enough that they could buy a house."
"I think it's an uphill battle for our generation," he said.
Read more: http://www.kentucky.com/2011/10/04/1907574/occupy-wall-street-movement-comes.html#ixzz1e15qICXu
I believe this younster has no idea how his parents were able to buy a house.
The "economy" owes our children nothing. Everyone ought to earn their own rice bowl. Then they have a rightful credibility to speak about such things.
As for a connection between these folks and the rabble at Zuccati park, None, Zip, nada.
joec
New member
Yes that figures Franc that is what is hitting the press as it gives them more sales. I was in the area that day on business of my own and talked to a number of people as I was leaving, only a few of which were what I call kids.
Yes the spotted this stuff posted in the paper but hardly what I would call the majority there. I tend to call them the vocal minority really as they tended to hog the camera time.
Regardless you are convinced they all want something for nothing and just want government to support them while I believe they simply want government to actually work for them and save their livelihoods. Either way we are at an impasse now as you are convinced and so am I. All I say is I hope they never really go violent as most of the Fox network has said they are because if they did a lot of damage would be done. Many of them are veterans also who can't get jobs at all since they have been home.
Yes the spotted this stuff posted in the paper but hardly what I would call the majority there. I tend to call them the vocal minority really as they tended to hog the camera time.
Regardless you are convinced they all want something for nothing and just want government to support them while I believe they simply want government to actually work for them and save their livelihoods. Either way we are at an impasse now as you are convinced and so am I. All I say is I hope they never really go violent as most of the Fox network has said they are because if they did a lot of damage would be done. Many of them are veterans also who can't get jobs at all since they have been home.
Joe, next time you meet with the minority of freinds who "just want the government to actually work" tell them to get involved with doing that. Hitching their star to the rabble in Zugatti park isn't gonna do squat for them.
Or getting in the way of folks who are actually trying to feed their families and likely would vote to continue doing so.
And it just makes them look sad, bad and irellavant, to most of the average working Joes. In truth your friends don't seem much different than the average joes, except that they seem to feel sitting on a sidewalk bitchin' will be effective.
Town hall meetings are effective.
Writiing your congressman is effective
Participating in the politician's election campaign is effective
The ballot box is effective
Bongo drums, Dumping poop and rocks on the police,,,not so much.
Social change by mob movements require energy. They can do it like the TEA's by organizing with respectful civil control within the system, or,they can try to upset the applecart with violence.
Both are effective political tools, but hardly interchangable. Attempts to connect the two are nothing more than desperate rationalizations. Also known as lies.
joec
New member
I actually don't know about that Franc they sure are getting noticed I would say. Look at the press coverage they are getting and the fact they are still going strong. They can't afford a lobby group but they are getting their message out and I might add it made a bit of a difference here in the last elections held. Out of 5 statewide seats available in a republican dominated state 4 democrats won including the Governor. The only republican that kept his seat was in agriculture and not really a political position and the guy was doing a good job being a farmer himself.
Now if they will dump Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul perhaps this state will turn around for a change going from the near the bottom of the barrel to a bit higher up the food chain.
Now if they will dump Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul perhaps this state will turn around for a change going from the near the bottom of the barrel to a bit higher up the food chain.
Catavenger
New member
Although I agree that capitalism works I also believe that it needs safe guards. How much government intervention (and I believe that in many ways we have to much,) we need is a matter we will never agree upon.
As for minimum wage for minimum work, when I was in college I unloaded trucks for minimum wage. The place was to cheap to buy a forklift we did it with hand trucks and a pallet jacks. That's damned hard work. When we asked for a raise we were told "you got your raise when they raised minimum wage."
The Romans are a bad example to use. Yes sanitation is great crucifixion and being fed to lions is not so great.
Upton Sinclair was a Socialist before the Russian revolution and before the horrors of Stalin. His being a Socialist does not invalidate the points he made in his book The Jungle.
Many people here seem to like the philosophy of Ayn Rand here is quote from her:
Ayn Rand was an antisocial sexually frustrated misfit. Her ideal man was a murderer : http://southpawbeagle.com/2011/04/20/ayn-rand/
Although Rand had a few good points about the abuses of big government she was basically a pretty bad woman.
I do not consider the Tea Party to be "teabaggers" since this refers to a A male who stands over his partner and lowers his testicles into his partner's mouth, as if lowering a tea bag into a tea cup.
However I wish that the Tea Party would stop their adoration of Rand.
Here is some of what God thinks about charity:
Deuteronomy 15:7, 11
If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land.
Deuteronomy 24:14
Do not take advantage of a hired man who is poor and needy, whether he is a brother Israelite or an alien living in one of your towns
Proverbs 11:24-25
One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty. A generous man will prosper; he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed.
Proverbs 14:31
He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.
Proverbs 19:17
He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done.
Proverbs 21:13
If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered.
Proverbs 22:9
A generous man will himself be blessed, for he shares his food with the poor.
Proverbs 28:27
He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses.
Ezekiel 16:49
Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
Mark 10:21
Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
1 Timothy 6:17-19
Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.
1 John 3:17-18
If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
I think you get my point.
As for minimum wage for minimum work, when I was in college I unloaded trucks for minimum wage. The place was to cheap to buy a forklift we did it with hand trucks and a pallet jacks. That's damned hard work. When we asked for a raise we were told "you got your raise when they raised minimum wage."
If I was King in 1263 I would be dead now. Not many people live 800 years.
The Romans are a bad example to use. Yes sanitation is great crucifixion and being fed to lions is not so great.
Upton Sinclair was a Socialist before the Russian revolution and before the horrors of Stalin. His being a Socialist does not invalidate the points he made in his book The Jungle.
Many people here seem to like the philosophy of Ayn Rand here is quote from her:
Playboy, March 1964
Ayn Rand was an antisocial sexually frustrated misfit. Her ideal man was a murderer : http://southpawbeagle.com/2011/04/20/ayn-rand/
Although Rand had a few good points about the abuses of big government she was basically a pretty bad woman.
I do not consider the Tea Party to be "teabaggers" since this refers to a A male who stands over his partner and lowers his testicles into his partner's mouth, as if lowering a tea bag into a tea cup.
However I wish that the Tea Party would stop their adoration of Rand.
Here is some of what God thinks about charity:
Deuteronomy 15:7, 11
If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land.
Deuteronomy 24:14
Do not take advantage of a hired man who is poor and needy, whether he is a brother Israelite or an alien living in one of your towns
Proverbs 11:24-25
One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty. A generous man will prosper; he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed.
Proverbs 14:31
He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.
Proverbs 19:17
He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done.
Proverbs 21:13
If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered.
Proverbs 22:9
A generous man will himself be blessed, for he shares his food with the poor.
Proverbs 28:27
He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses.
Ezekiel 16:49
Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
Mark 10:21
Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
1 Timothy 6:17-19
Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.
1 John 3:17-18
If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
I think you get my point.
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Nice words Catavenger. Thanks for the reminders.
franc
franc
tiredretired
The Old Salt
I have yet to hear you say anything negative about a Democrat, or anything positve about a Republican. I must conclude your peg seems to fit the left hole easily.
Why keep thinking in terms of Republican/Democrat Joec? Very two dimensional. It limits your options.
But it puts you where the Party leaders want. These are the same confusers on both sides, that have corrupted the system.
The world has changed. US politics have changed. We all have a choice here. Change with it or follow the cow in front of you. Free up capitlism of continue into the rail car.
joec
New member
The Democrats are just as guilty as the Republicans and the problem is the Congress period. Both houses are equally guilty of being for sale to the highest bidder.
Now as for my preference for President I have one though I doubt he will make based on the response he is getting now. But then the way Republican candidates are dropping weekly perhaps his turn will come.
I'm also for free market to a point in that some regulations need to be in place to keep it from eating itself up. Now if it was up to me their would be both CEO and members of Congress both parties in jail. So if that makes me a liberal or an Obama supporter then believe what you like as that really doesn't bother me any more. I tend to vote depending on the qualifications the person brings to the table, hence I didn't vote for Obama and won't again. I might add I didn't vote for McCain either as both where unqualified to be president period. I do vote however for my representatives to congress as at least there they are only one of many voices.
Oh and perhaps you would like me to be more like a few here, with the name calling and stupid statements? I only worry about the things I can change an can do nothing in regards to what is there now. I see no point in bashing the obvious over and over again nor see any reason I should as it makes no difference really.
Now as for my preference for President I have one though I doubt he will make based on the response he is getting now. But then the way Republican candidates are dropping weekly perhaps his turn will come.
I'm also for free market to a point in that some regulations need to be in place to keep it from eating itself up. Now if it was up to me their would be both CEO and members of Congress both parties in jail. So if that makes me a liberal or an Obama supporter then believe what you like as that really doesn't bother me any more. I tend to vote depending on the qualifications the person brings to the table, hence I didn't vote for Obama and won't again. I might add I didn't vote for McCain either as both where unqualified to be president period. I do vote however for my representatives to congress as at least there they are only one of many voices.
Oh and perhaps you would like me to be more like a few here, with the name calling and stupid statements? I only worry about the things I can change an can do nothing in regards to what is there now. I see no point in bashing the obvious over and over again nor see any reason I should as it makes no difference really.
Name calling? And then you call folks here stupid? WTF Joec. Ido not recall callig anyone names. Anything I may have said you think is stupid, debunk it with facts. I have no issue with being corrected.
Learning should be the point of an open minded discussion.
Please, just stay on the topic
To tht end;
We had 8,000 pages of new regulations placed on businesses just last year alone. I agree we need to regulate, hell the founders put it in the constitution because they knew we neded some of it. But hell Joe, We had 8,000 pages of new regulations placed on businesses just last year alone. How much of this crap do you think we need for you to feel "safe?"
joec
New member
First off Franc did I say it was you I was talking about? Now if you have not seen the derogatory names referring to Obama, Biden, Palosi etc then you really need to look closer at some of the posts here. I find those statements stupid and uncalled for to make a point that I personally find them offensive especially over a their political point of view. Now I didn't say people here are stupid I stated that their are some pointless things posted that add little to the conversation. Now is that clearer for you?
Now back on topic. Did I ever say that all regulations are good? There are some that are necessary period. Others are for a lack of a better term stupid. I have no problems with going through them and weeding out the chafe from the wheat at all. The funny thing is most of these regulations are setup by either congress or some bureaucrat. So there you get no argument from me then on regulations as you stated we do need some which I do believe also.
tiredretired
The Old Salt
Benefits of capitalism? Let's see.
Went to the supermarket today to start shopping for Thankgiving. I have money in my pocket to pay for the food I wanted because a rich man (my former boss) ran a good solid business and gave me a job for the last 24 years I was in the trade.
When I got to the turkey isle, the first decision was fresh or frozen. Then hundreds to choose from from $.99/lb to the organic ones for $4.99/lb. (who in the hell buys those
) I chose one @ $1.39/lb. Gotta be frugal you know, only the gov't can print this stuff.
Well you get the gist of the point I'm trying to make. Thank our good Lord next Thursday for this great country we live in and the bountiful supply we have.
Those that don't like capitalism, that is your opinion, however I don't want to hear your bullshit. Just pack your bags and move to Cuba. I'm sure the worker's paradise has an ample supply of all you need.
Have I ever mentioned what I think of Bill Mahr?
Went to the supermarket today to start shopping for Thankgiving. I have money in my pocket to pay for the food I wanted because a rich man (my former boss) ran a good solid business and gave me a job for the last 24 years I was in the trade.
When I got to the turkey isle, the first decision was fresh or frozen. Then hundreds to choose from from $.99/lb to the organic ones for $4.99/lb. (who in the hell buys those
) I chose one @ $1.39/lb. Gotta be frugal you know, only the gov't can print this stuff. Well you get the gist of the point I'm trying to make. Thank our good Lord next Thursday for this great country we live in and the bountiful supply we have.
Those that don't like capitalism, that is your opinion, however I don't want to hear your bullshit. Just pack your bags and move to Cuba. I'm sure the worker's paradise has an ample supply of all you need.
Have I ever mentioned what I think of Bill Mahr?
You didn't say who at all. Somehow that makes a difference?
Re Regulations;
But you have asked for more..repeatedly, And evertime a traditional energy technology is discussed you bring it up. For why? "we need to be sure not to give kids cancer." Stating the obvious.!?!
But in truth, most Regs have nothing to do with that.
It is obvious that the free market needs some controls, the industry needs some "regulations. The "regulation of commerce' placed in the Constitution was not so intendedas to actually manipulate and control Capitalism.
We are strangled by the web of "regulations" and the sunami of new ones coming upon us. It took over an hour of my time today, just to try and hire someone. Two applications were processed. Both times we had to reject their applications because of ID issues. Under the law, we have to process everybody, even if we can pretty well assume, they are or aren't legal.
Here's a question. The US government insists that it is the one entity soley charged with the responsibility to protect the Borders and "regulate" immigration. My Plant is almost geographically in the center of the US with no national border or coast within 600 miles.
So how come an illegal alien is ever standing on my porch looking for a job? And why is it my responsibility to prove it along with every other employer who must endure and encounter with this same person?
Regulations are strangling us all. Many of them are there because the government is so inept at doing it's job it must force private enterpise, Capitalists, to do it for them.
But not the State of Arizona, just the companies who reside there.
As for the name calling related to politicians, that's normal to politcs. When the media stops, perhaps you can have your wish here as well.
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Benefits of capitalism? Let's see.
Went to the supermarket today to start shopping for Thankgiving. I have money in my pocket to pay for the food I wanted because a rich man (my former boss) ran a good solid business and gave me a job for the last 24 years I was in the trade.
When I got to the turkey isle, the first decision was fresh or frozen. Then hundreds to choose from from $.99/lb to the organic ones for $4.99/lb. (who in the hell buys those
Well you get the gist of the point I'm trying to make. Thank our good Lord next Thursday for this great country we live in and the bountiful supply we have.
Those that don't like capitalism, that is your opinion, however I don't want to hear your bullshit. Just pack your bags and move to Cuba. I'm sure the worker's paradise has an ample supply of all you need.
Have I ever mentioned what I think of Bill Mahr?
King Louis the14th could not have fresh strawberries on Christmas day. In America the common person can have them any day of the year. Capitalism.
The trem "Banana Republic" refers to the best, and the worst, of Capitalism. But we don't need socialism, or worse Communism, to correct that.
Europe was under the spell of Fudalism for 600 years. What great innovations (other than war machinery) came of that system?
China, Japan, Korea were fuedal until the end of WWII. Even the Emperor Hirohito did not have indoor plumbing.
The advent of common capitalism in the mid 16th century unleashed to humanspirit and set Europe to sail the world. But the true explosion of capitalism occurred when the shackles of royalty and royal court favor was replaced by the entrance of the Common man with rights to property and personhood.
That occured first in the little budding nation of thirteen religious spin offs from England and Europe.
Us Capitalism has since thrived despite wars, drought, famine, and scandalous theivery until the Progressives finally put a lid on it. I say it is time to blow that lid sky high.
If anyone is interested in hearing from the protesters themselves click on the OWS link below. I went to their site to see if I could find a list of what they want. They claim they do not have a list of demands "because thats what terrorist do" nice way of saying we don't know what we want. One of their people however put this list up.
LINK=OWS
LINK=OWS
joec
New member
Well as for hiring illegal aliens that could be fixed inside of 3 months. Issue every person that is an American citizen and unalterable ID and without it no one can get a job. For those on a work permit a different one. However that simple straight forward solution rubs the religions the wrong way due to their beliefs in some end of the world their beliefs talk about. A SS cards where never supposed to be used for ID though they are often today. With the ID and a central computer site that would allow an employer to check before hiring. They do a background check within about 5 minutes on me every time I buy a gun so why not for employment.
Immigration seems to be a real problem in Arizona for some reason while illegal immigration is down due to no jobs here, just saying. Until congress gets off its ass and address the problem of immigration it won't get fixed and is not up to the states. There are more regulations involving immigration than their probably is on business. So to me it is in the hands of those that handle purse strings of the nation. Rather put the funds out to hire more boarder guards, set a way to verify a persons right to work than dump it on the employer without giving them the tools the need to do it. So again it comes back to the congress which I only have a bit of say with my single vote.
Now as someone raised in Miami Florida BC (before the Cubans) I have no sympathy for illegal immigrants at all. But then I've said it a long time now this is the only country on the planet that treats it citizens like aliens and aliens like citizens.
Immigration seems to be a real problem in Arizona for some reason while illegal immigration is down due to no jobs here, just saying. Until congress gets off its ass and address the problem of immigration it won't get fixed and is not up to the states. There are more regulations involving immigration than their probably is on business. So to me it is in the hands of those that handle purse strings of the nation. Rather put the funds out to hire more boarder guards, set a way to verify a persons right to work than dump it on the employer without giving them the tools the need to do it. So again it comes back to the congress which I only have a bit of say with my single vote.
Now as someone raised in Miami Florida BC (before the Cubans) I have no sympathy for illegal immigrants at all. But then I've said it a long time now this is the only country on the planet that treats it citizens like aliens and aliens like citizens.
Some of those are actually funny.
Aside from elimination of at least three Constiutional garrantees, how is $140,400.00.00 in wages equal to $28,080.00
Age of majority to 16 would give pediphiles easier access tovictims but then no death penalty or life sentenceces means no real punishment for such sexual predators or,,,,,, murderers.
Yeah, just those alone would vastly imporve the lives of some folks. Like about 1% of the population.
That clenched fist thing looks familiar.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...768AE014F57BD7B0035E4D1D&first=31&FORM=IDFRIR
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...768AE014F57BD7B0035E4D1D&first=31&FORM=IDFRIR
Catavenger
New member
That reminds me to much of this:
Which would be bound to happen because that "show me your papers" crap wont work. There is no such thing an unforgeable "unalterable ID" card. All a person needs to do is get the birth certificate of a dead person about his age then use it to get ID.
joec
New member
Yes for about one generation as they would then be issued at birth like Social Security cards are now. Yes it is impossible to make it completely tamper proof but it sure can be made to be difficult to do.
So what do you suggest, perhaps station a million or so troops on our boarders both north and south. How about our coast lines? Just asking what you would do since I told you how I would deal with it.
Catavenger
New member
People would still hire workers off the books. Would I have to asked my yardmen etc. for ID? There would have to be a vast increase in enforcement agents or probably ANOTHER government agency. Hey I am not saying I have the answer to the immigration problem. I am just saying your idea won't work that well.
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ID cards can and are faked. We deal with it allthetime. There is a system called E-Verify. Cumbersome, legaly tricky forthe employer and can give false positives and false negatives. Yo also canot use it on current employees, only new hires. Which is just another gotcha worked intothe system.
Still, we use it as the ID cards are not that difficult to forge. Cost about $300 to get a good one.
So when we catch an illegal here we simply turn them away and they go to some otheremployer. Between sanctuary cities and local law enforcement turning a blind eye,that doesn't do much to discourage the problem. The Feds are useless on this end of it.
So, We will continue to have illegals on our doorstop,,either looking for work or a hand out.
A mere inconvenience for me but truly sad for them.