One simply cannot make this stuff up!

[waybomb]

And you would be where Vince Foster went.

Again, thank God for Snowden's shedding light on what those that are supposed to protect the constitution and laws refuse to do. Limit the government.

The traitors here are just about the entire government.

Thank You Mr Snowden. It's too bad you had to run to protect yourself from this criminal government we have voted in over the years.

 

[Kane]

Where Vince Foster went ... (giggle)

Wouldn't it be great if the GOP had the balls to press Hillary as to what she did with good ol' Vince?

 

[FrancSevin]

Franc, this is why your stance remains so puzzling. Hong Kong is not our enemy. She is our friend and remains a strong ally as evidenced by the US-HK Policy Act of 92 which stipulates the US treats HK apart from the Peoples Republic of China.

China ain't our friend. Hong Kong is, as evidenced with bilateral support on law enforcement, anti-terrorism, economic trade and other awesome stuff. Look it up for crissakes.

Sorry to nag on, but Hong Kong is our friend. Ed Snowden did not take flight to the enemy. At least get that much right.

From the list of shithole nations denying extradiction back to the US, which one would you have chosen as safe haven?

Just to keeop the record straight, Edward Snowden's first attempt to leave the USA was togo to Cuba. when he couldn't do that he went to china.

Now there ismore on your "hero."
No facts toprove the hypothesis but it is time for what i predicted to be proven or misproven.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25806855

I await the outcome before I endorse Snowden's candidacy for a national monument

 

[Kane]

Just to keeop the record straight, Edward Snowden's first attempt to leave the USA was togo to Cuba. when he couldn't do that he went to china.

Now there ismore on your "hero."
No facts toprove the hypothesis but it is time for what i predicted to be proven or misproven.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25806855

I await the outcome before I endorse Snowden's candidacy for a national monument

Figures you would jump on this, Franc.

You can join the leagues of Dianne Feinstein if you wish, and make stuff up, or stick to the facts. Here, from NYT, is the assessment of NSA, FBI and the pentagon. So who ya gonna believe? Dianne?

The lawmakers, Representative Mike Rogers, Republican of Michigan, and Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California, offered NO specific evidence that Mr. Snowden had cooperated with Moscow. Since Mr. Snowden’s disclosure first became public last spring, there has been much speculation that he was collaborating with a foreign spy service.

Nearly a year later, however, there has been NO public indication that the F.B.I.’s investigation of Mr. Snowden’s actions, bolstered by separate “damage assessment” investigations at the N.S.A. and the Pentagon, has uncovered evidence that Mr. Snowden received help from a foreign intelligence service. A senior F.B.I. official said on Sunday that it was still the bureau’s conclusion that Mr. Snowden acted alone.

Leave the romance and intrigue to Tom Clancy.

,

 

[Kane]

Just to keeop the record straight, Edward Snowden's first attempt to leave the USA was togo to Cuba. when he couldn't do that he went to china.

And once again, one more time, just to keep the record straight, Hong Kong is not China.

 

[FrancSevin]

Figures you would jump on this, Franc.

You can join the leagues of Dianne Feinstein if you wish, and make stuff up, or stick to the facts. Here, from NYT, is the assessment of NSA, FBI and the pentagon. So who ya gonna believe? Dianne?

Leave the romance and intrigue to Tom Clancy.

,

The association with Fienstein is unfair Kane. And you know it.
Let's get to the truth before we accuse. I have not accused but speculated based on logic and reason.

It seems unlikely that three months into the assignment, Snowden was able to strip so much material from the NSA and then get out of the country un fettered. His only choices were communist countries with relations to the nation in which he finally landed.

Given the infection of politics currently raging in all the halls of Washington DC, do you sincerely belive the FBI, a department subject to our inept the White House, is not affected.

In the world of espionage, thare are plenty of cover stories, published for the public, to believe. However, as to the actual truth of the matter, there are few concidences.

 

[Kane]

The association with Fienstein is unfair Kane. And you know it.
Let's get to the truth before we accuse. I have not accused but speculated based on logic and reason.

It seems unlikely that three months into the assignment, Snowden was able to strip so much material from the NSA and then get out of the country un fettered. His only choices were communist countries with relations to the nation in which he finally landed.

In the world of espionage, thare are plenty of cover stories for the public to believe. However, as to the actual truth of the matter, there are few concidences.

To save my breath (er, typing) I'll just refer you back to post #27.

If anyone, Snowden had help and travel advice from Glenn Greenwald, his buddy from the Guardian. Recall that Ed gave the poop ONLY to Glenn and the Washington Post - and quite possibly his brother - with instructions to publish ONLY stuff related to Amerikan's individuals rights against unconstitutional search and seizure. At NO time was it Ed's intention to divulge Amerika's military or supper-secret security stuff.

Even if Ed somehow "disappeared", his instructions to Glenn (and probably Ed's brother) were to dump ONLY the stuff related to NSA's unconstitutional spying on Amerikans.

Does Snowden have material related to Amerika's super secret military/foreign spying? You bet ... easily all on tiny thumb drives stuck up his ass. Does it appear like it is his intent to divulge such information? NO. Again, it is quite evident that Ed's ONLY concern is for the liberties and rights of the Amerikan People against unlawful and unconstitutional spying by NSA.

You should commend the young man for caring about you.
.

 

[Kane]

Let's get to the truth before we accuse. I have not accused but speculated based on logic and reason.

You have not speculated based on logic and reason, but on your stubborn insistence from the jump that Snowden is a diabolical traitor. No amount of reason will sway you from that position. That's fine. It makes for a lively thread.

 

[FrancSevin]

Your loyalty is admirable, however, you naivete' surprises me.

Shall we hold judgement until some of this new material shakes out?

 

[Kane]

If Edward Snowden was indeed a diabolical traitor loyal to the 'enemy', he would have been well rewarded and laying on a beach somewhere near Rio with a different name, a bottle of rum, a bottle of suntan oil and a beautiful Russian-speaking blond in a bikini.

Just as Tom Clancy (may he RIP) would have it.

 

[FrancSevin]

If Edward Snowden was indeed a diabolical traitor loyal to the 'enemy', he would have been well rewarded and laying on a beach somewhere near Rio with a different name, a bottle of rum, a bottle of suntan oil and a beautiful Russian-speaking blond in a bikini.

Your post #27 illustrates my point. He had othe chices but hisfirst, second and third were Cuba, China, Russia.

You are ususaly less theatrical than this Kane. So much fluster and little reasoning.

Consider Benedict Arnold who thought he was doing the heroic thing for his countrymen. So did most of England at the time. Loyal to his King, but not his countrymen.

But in the end he died with few friends. And no monuments. Anywhere.

 

[Kane]

But in the end he died with few friends. And no monuments. Anywhere.

The Boot Monument at Saratoga

 

[waybomb]

No facts toprove the hypothesis but it is time for what i predicted to be proven or misproven.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25806855

MAY, Possibly, etc - just like global warming and any other manmade news grabbing story.
Sacharine may cause cancer, wine may cause cancer, coffee may cause cancer, the oceans may rise 27 feet, typing on a keyboard replying to dribble may cause cancer.

PHHTT.

It's a wasted few seconds of reading.

PROVE he's a spy, and not a defender of our constitution.
Then I'll consider him a spy. Until then, hero it is for me,

 

[FrancSevin]

MAY, Possibly, etc - just like global warming and any other manmade news grabbing story.
Sacharine may cause cancer, wine may cause cancer, coffee may cause cancer, the oceans may rise 27 feet, typing on a keyboard replying to dribble may cause cancer.

PHHTT.

It's a wasted few seconds of reading.

PROVE he's a spy, and not a defender of our constitution.
Then I'll consider him a spy. Until then, hero it is for me,

I do nothave to prove anything as i have not juddged snowden one way or the other. history will prove his guilt. Meanwhile, because there is certain doubt, I raise no glass in his honor.

I believe it is called having an open mind. Something i would suggest to anyonewho has only news articles for evidence on which to back any conclusions.

 

[jimbo]

I do nothave to prove anything as i have not juddged snowden one way or the other. history will prove his guilt. Meanwhile, because there is certain doubt, I raise no glass in his honor.

I believe it is called having an open mind. Something i would suggest to anyonewho has only news articles for evidence on which to back any conclusions.

I'm curious, Franc, do you see any contradiction in your first two sentences?

 

[Kane]

I'm curious, Franc, do you see any contradiction in your first two sentences?

I'm confused too, jimbo. Mr. Sevin does seem to be walking back his certain condemnation of Snowden as a traitor. Maybe he's coming around.

 

[FrancSevin]

I'm curious, Franc, do you see any contradiction in your first two sentences?

No. Think it through pal.

I neither praise no condemn. Asking questions, holding doubt, because the known facts support no conclussions, is not an accusal. Read further back in this and other of my posts.

 

[FrancSevin]

The Boot Monument at Saratoga

The one monument for actions before Arnold's betrayal and "It is officialy defaced."

Not exactly a rebuttal o my claim is it. This attempt is is so bad, I cannot even accuse you of "stretching it." Once again, your posts further my argumet.

Until the dust settles, PA-Leeeeeze---give it a reat.

 

[Kane]

No. Think it through pal.

I neither praise no condemn. Asking questions, holding doubt, because the known facts support no conclussions, is not an accusal. Read further back in this and other of my posts.

I'd be great to give this a rest, Franc, but you keep trying to 'evolve' your stubborn position; walking back from your adamant allegation that Snowden is a diabolical traitor working for the enemy. This is just one of your early posts specifically condemning Ed as a traitor:

From the begining I have held the same position on Edward Snowden. Not swayed by rhetoric or relativism.

trai·tor

noun ˈtrā-tər .}: a person who is not loyal to his or her own country, friends, etc. : a person who betrays a country or group of people by helping or supporting an enemy

Full Definition of TRAITOR

1
: one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty (factualy so)

2
: one who commits treason (which I do not yet believe is factually so)

By definition, he is a traitor. As to being a hero, the jury is still out for me on that. From my first post to today, I am still corraled in that opinion. The significance of the information exposed does little to change that.

But now you want to "neither praise nor condemn"?

Keep walking back and you might actually agree that Snowden is not a secret agent spy for Russia ... a traitor ... but actually just a naive kid looking out for the constitutional rights of you and me.

What he did might be considered stupid, but it was brave beyond measure, knowing in his words he could be "imprisoned or murdered". And particularly after Joe Biden yanked his passport and warned nations friendly to Amerika not to give him asylum. The list of nations without extradition agreements I gave you are all 3rd world shitholes and/or enemies of Amerika (you know that) so fleeing to Hong Kong (NOT CHINA) made perfect sense for a man concerned about getting disappeared like good ol' Vince. He divulged NOTHING that could be considered a threat to our national security, but exposed ONLY the actions of NSA that are contrary to the protections of our Constitution.

You seem to have a wide streak of libertarian ideology in you, Franc, so folks that know you are puzzled. Why did you immediately condemn Edward Snowden as a traitor? If you've changed your mind, that's fine. But don't twist, re-invent or evolve your original statements ... 'cause we can all read.
.

 

[FrancSevin]

I'd be great to give this a rest, Franc, but you keep trying to 'evolve' your stubborn position; walking back from your adamant allegation that Snowden is a diabolical traitor working for the enemy. This is just one of your many posts specifically condemning Ed as a traitor.

But now you want to "neither praise nor condemn"?

Keep walking back and you might actually agree that Snowden is not a secret agent spy for Russia ... a traitor ... but actually just a naive kid looking out for the constitutional rights of you and me.

What he did might be considered stupid, but it was brave beyond measure, knowing in his words he could be "imprisoned or murdered". And particularly after Joe Biden yanked his passport and warned nations friendly to Amerika not to give him asylum. The list of nations without extradition agreements I gave you are all 3rd world shitholes and enemies of Amerika (you know that) so fleeing to Hong Kong (NOT CHINA) made perfect sense for a man concerned about getting disappeared like good ol' Vince. He divulged NOTHING that could be considered a threat to our national security, but exposed ONLY the actions of NSA that are contrary to the protections of our Constitution.

You seem to have a wide streak of libertarian ideology in you, Franc, so folks that know you are puzzled. Why did you immediately condemn Edward Snowden as a traitor? If you've changed your mind, that's fine. But don't re-invent or evolve your original statements, 'cause we can all read.
.

I am a libertarian. That is a surprise to you?

How does that change the facts we know?

 

[waybomb]

An open mind arguing vehemently with anyone saying the guy's a hero.
The facts are in? Only in the way you slant them Frank.
Sorry, but you are wrong on this one. Your only proof is a piece using maybe, possibly, could, etc in the analysis.

DID and IS are good words for an analysis.

He DID open the world's eyes to the level of spying which goes against Jeffersonian constitutionalism. Spying on everybody, with no search warrant at all. Just go ahead and do it. In fact, spend billions and billions on datamining centers to do it. OUR money, used to spy on us.

 

[FrancSevin]

An open mind arguing vehemently with anyone saying the guy's a hero.
The facts are in? Only in the way you slant them Frank.

Sorry, but you are wrong on this one. Your only proof is a piece using maybe, possibly, could, etc in the analysis.

DID and IS are good words for an analysis.

He DID open the world's eyes to the level of spying which goes against Jeffersonian constitutionalism. Spying on everybody, with no search warrant at all. Just go ahead and do it. In fact, spend billions and billions on datamining centers to do it. OUR money, used to spy on us.

What facts did I slant? You are welcome to an opinion on my position but support it. What facts did I slant or spin?

What maybe?

What possibly?

I only reach a different conclusion than you. From what we do know, none of us knows the comprehensive story.

My tentative conclusions may differ even though we are looking at the same set of facts. That doesn't mean I have slanted the facts. I am allowed, as are you, a different interpretation of what they might mean than you.

Again, I suggest we wait until history sorts this out before we presume to accuse anyone of being wrong here. Something I have not done. I have simply disagreed. I believe that is allowed in an intelligent and respectful conversation.

 

[waybomb]

The article linked is pure trash and not reporting facts at all.

Does not support your stance at all. Unless maybe, possible, could, etc somehow does.

 

[FrancSevin]

The article linked is pure trash and not reporting facts at all.

Does not support your stance at all. Unless maybe, possible, could, etc somehow does.

Please don't be a silly nannyhammer.

My link was about attending researchers on the subject and worried about NSA spying, OF their meeting communications, not the value of Snowden's work.

"At least eight researchers or policy experts have withdrawn from an Internet security conference after the sponsor reportedly used flawed encryption technology deliberately in commercial software to allow the National Security Agency to spy more easily on computer users."


The article was about something else altogether. During the conversations here, the subject has changed.