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Why don't I see the masses of Muslims condemning this 'cleric'?

mak2 said:
I did not see this one till now. I do think part of it might be cultural, the person I was talking about could get stoned (not the good kind) for protesting where she is from. I just think we ought to be care being so judgemental.
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Mak, I am all for tolerance, but it has to be reciprocal. Wanting them to stand up and condemn the lunatics in their society is asking that they do as we expect civilized peoples to do. This forum is a prime example.
 
You saying I am a lunatic? Cause it is either me or Rob and he aint here.

Sides, I never heard that tolerance thing had to be recipricol. By the way, I am all for if you get your hands on a real terrorist you can kill him anyway you want, just so he is a terrorist. Or if you can prove a coutry is backing terrorism take it out too. But I can no longer condem a complete religion for the actions of a very few.
 
mak2 said:
You saying I am a lunatic? Cause it is either me or Rob and he aint here.

Sides, I never heard that tolerance thing had to be recipricol. By the way, I am all for if you get your hands on a real terrorist you can kill him anyway you want, just so he is a terrorist. Or if you can prove a coutry is backing terrorism take it out too. But I can no longer condem a complete religion for the actions of a very few.
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Tolerance can only work when a majority of those involved in an issue are willing to tolerate another's viewpoint, so yes it is reciprocal.
The point is Mak, is it is not a few in this religion. So far, the evidence is that a majority support or do not condemn this sort of behavior.
As I have stated before, read Sharia law. Ask your co-worker if she supports Sharia law.
 
The way I see it, Islam is about 500 years newer than Christianity. If you look at what Christians were doing 500 years ago, it's not that different than what the Muslim terrorists are doing today.

Christians had to go through schisms, reformations, and centuries of soul searching to get where they are today. That hasn't happened with Islam. They have barely scratched the surface. We can't expect centuries of reform to happen overnight. We can hopefully just keep moving forward, and leading by example.
 
loboloco said:
Tolerance can only work when a majority of those involved in an issue are willing to tolerate another's viewpoint, so yes it is reciprocal.
The point is Mak, is it is not a few in this religion. So far, the evidence is that a majority support or do not condemn this sort of behavior.
As I have stated before, read Sharia law. Ask your co-worker if she supports Sharia law.
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:w00t2:Noticed you completely avoided the lunatic thing.:sad:
 
RobsanX said:
The way I see it, Islam is about 500 years newer than Christianity. If you look at what Christians were doing 500 years ago, it's not that different than what the Muslim terrorists are doing today.

Christians had to go through schisms, reformations, and centuries of soul searching to get where they are today. That hasn't happened with Islam. They have barely scratched the surface. We can't expect centuries of reform to happen overnight. We can hopefully just keep moving forward, and leading by example.
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And meanwhile fending off the barbarians. I see your point. The question is, can we as a society survive until the Islamics mature.
 
mak2 said:
Dont be silly. I have said often the Westboro bunch just need a good ass whippin, but not all Christians do. You are attempting to create a straw man. Stop it.:w00t2:
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Well, I wasn't gonna light any fires!

My whole point is that I am having a very, very hard time continuing my belief that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance as I've been told my entire life. If a Catholic Cardinal made a proclamation to kill all Canadians since they don't have as many Catholics as Mexico, you'd have the airwaves filled with every Father, Bishop etc. decrying that Cardinal as a complete nut case and immediately bounce him from the church.

I'm seeing absolutely NOTHING like that from Muslims. To be completely truthful, that is extremely disturbing. If I strongly disagree with someone I don't simply do nothing. That is NOT human nature. Human nature is to speak out, remove that nut case from their religion, apologize for such lunatic chattering. Based on the number of Muslims living in just our country, let alone the rest of the world, for all intents and purposes, there is no reaction against his proclamations. That can easily be interpreted as agreement. This is very disturbing.
 
RobsanX said:
The way I see it, Islam is about 500 years newer than Christianity. If you look at what Christians were doing 500 years ago, it's not that different than what the Muslim terrorists are doing today.

Christians had to go through schisms, reformations, and centuries of soul searching to get where they are today. That hasn't happened with Islam. They have barely scratched the surface. We can't expect centuries of reform to happen overnight. We can hopefully just keep moving forward, and leading by example.
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500 years ago you would have been living in huts, caves and eating bugs and any rodent you could find. Very weak response. 500 years ago there were no Mormons. Joseph Smith had never existed. You're dismissing that entire religion because they are new? Go give your speech to Steve Young and see how well he receives your logic. Heck, graduations are coming up, go speak at BYU.
 
I have studied the Koran. As well as the Talmud the Bible, the Apocrypha, many of the hindu and buddhist writings and a good bit of the ancient mythologies.
Religion of peace my ass.
 
Dargo said:
Hey Honey, go back through those party invitations and take mak2's invite out. I'm afraid he may hurt some of our neighbors. :flowers:
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When's the party, I will play nice, I promise. If there is any stoneing going on, it wont be with rocks.
 
loboloco said:
I have studied the Koran. As well as the Talmud the Bible, the Apocrypha, many of the hindu and buddhist writings and a good bit of the ancient mythologies.
Religion of peace my ass.
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I agree, I've read enough of the koran to know it's not a tolerant or peacefull religion- unless you're a moslem

I think it's funny people keep bringing up crap like the crusades, and Jim Jones and blaim it on christianity--because it makes it obvious they have no clue what they're talking about. Alot of people CLAIM to do things in the name of christinity, but when you know what the bible says-- you realize they didn't.
 
mak2 said:
have you protested against the Westboro Church's funeral protest?
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What I have or haven't done has nothing to do with this thread-- it's not about me.
I find it a little hipocritical that you don't like it when people make things personal against you...yet you like to do it.
 
Dargo said:
500 years ago you would have been living in huts, caves and eating bugs and any rodent you could find. Very weak response. 500 years ago there were no Mormons. Joseph Smith had never existed. You're dismissing that entire religion because they are new? Go give your speech to Steve Young and see how well he receives your logic. Heck, graduations are coming up, go speak at BYU.
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I honestly have no idea what your point in this post is.
 
I think he is pointing out that there are younger beliefs that do not advocate the murder of non-believers.
 
jpr62902 said:
I don't either. I read Dargo's post. Then I reread it a few times more, and I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, Brent.
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Don't tell me that you're like Rob and expect the Mormons to be barbarians and continue to be so for another 300 years or so. Rob's twisted logic excuses the brutality of Islam because Mohammad, who most consider a pedophile since his youngest forced wife was 9 years old, didn't come along with his version of "The Book of Mormon" until 500 years after the Christian religion. I only use Mormons because by almost any measure they are a new religion yet they are not barbarians. That excuse is so lame that it makes no sense and, honestly, wasn't really worth a reply.
 
RobsanX said:
I honestly have no idea what your point in this post is.
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I honestly can't believe that anyone can excuse the barbarian traditions of a religion based on the age of a religion. Have you never been told that Muslims are not genetically encoded to live in caves and cut people's heads off and shun modern inventions? It's a choice, just like it's a conscious choice for them to not be all up in arms when one of their "clerics" calls for the murder of Americans.
 
I might be drawing the wrong inference here, but Christians have barbaric eras in their history, too, so I think Rob was just drawing the parallel, not excusing fringe Muslim behaviour.
 
jpr62902 said:
I might be drawing the wrong inference here, but Christians have barbaric eras in their history, too, so I think Rob was just drawing the parallel, not excusing fringe Muslim behaviour.
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Unless history has changed, as it has a tendency to do, Christians have never had a main reference manual that requires them to kill all non-believers. Therefore, I fail to see any pertinent parallel. That's why I brought up the Mormons. They have a short history and, whether they are correct that we all came from the planet Kolob or not, they do not have a violent history.
 
jpr62902 said:
I'm quite certain Dargo knows the history of the Inquisition, as well as the Crusades.
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Thank you. I'll refrain from getting into specifics and details with someone who seems to have only read the Cliff's Notes on history.
 
RobsanX said:
That's my point. The same principle applies to Islam.
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Unfortunately, no it doesn't. The Koran calls for the killing of non-believers. I have yet to see that in the bible. The actions of rogue clerics acting outside of their religious teachings is different from people following the written literal word of their prophet.
 
RobsanX said:
That's my point. The same principle applies to Islam.
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islam and christianity are polar opposites though.........

the people in power in islam are following the koran...

the people in power during the inquisition were NOT following the bible, but people couldn't read, therefore they didn't know any better ( which was another way they-those in charge- kept power)

islam= convert them or kill them

christianity= love thy neighbor

i simplyfied of course
 
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