Sushi it's not just the economy that's in trouble

[daedong]

That is a claim that is often made but is hard to substantiate. Many people go bankrupt for dozens of different reasons and with the way some of those polls are written they simply can blame health insurance.

It is similar to the claim that 1 in 7 can't afford health insurance. The fact is that 1 in 7 doesn't have it, but that is far different than 1 in 7 can't afford it.

Bear in mind the the people who make up many of those statistics are in the business of lobbying for socialized health care.

I personally know many people who have racked up health care bills that equal dozens of years of their income. In no case has any of those people filed bankruptcy. In every case if you work with the hospitals/doctors, even if you have no insurance, your bills will be dramatically reduced and they will put you on a payment plan for the balance. It is typical for the doctor/hospital to discount bills 70-to-80% if you are willing to make monthly payments on the balance. Like I said, I know many people who have done this. I also know several people getting their healthcare at virtually no cost, and who get their medications free of charge too.

Bob,

I find many articles, either state based or politician based that would not agree with you at all.

I guess at the end of the day most of the posters on FF are OK so why should they care, and I am certainly alright so why should I care.
But I believe one should not need to beg or rely on charity for a basic human right.

 

[daedong]

Bob you are right. People that don't have insurance are not turned away. Just go down to you local emergency room and they are handing out State forms right and left. Our deductible is very high and the hospital in my case has been pretty good about extending payments as long as you work with them The Health insurance debate to me has become nothing more than a political debate. Vin talked about Hillary and how the US would not accept a universal or government system but I guarantee she would be the first one to not follow the rules or get in line like the rest of us.


murph

Murph, In our system many people still have private cover, choose your hospital and your doc.

 

[RedRocker]

But I believe one should not need to beg or rely on charity for a basic human right.

Free health care is a right? I keep flashing back to the welfare gal someone posted here last week in front of her 50" flat screen plasma TV bitching about her lot in life. My wife and I work our asses off and don't have a flat screen TV, but we do have insurance. We all have the basic human right to buy health insurance, get the feds out of it and it would be affordable for everyone.

 

[daedong]

Free health care is a right? I keep flashing back to the welfare gal someone posted here last week in front of her 50" flat screen plasma TV bitching about her lot in life. My wife and I work our asses off and don't have a flat screen TV, but we do have insurance. We all have the basic human right to buy health insurance, get the feds out of it and it would be affordable for everyone.

Who mentioned free?

BTW, trade some guns in and get a plasma TV.

 

[fogtender]

Murph, In our system many people still have private cover, choose your hospital and your doc.

If you have a National Health Care in Australia, why would you need a "Private Cover".... That would be a red flag that the basic care that is free isn't' all that great.

She (Hillary) obviously knows the American psyche very well. You have just proved to me she was right.

You are very correct, she knows if you tell them it is free, they want it...and will vote for those that give it. Doesn't mean she is right, she just knows how to pander to the Masses.

"Many Californians without job-based benefits cannot get health care coverage. Those who have pre-existing health conditions such as diabetes, cancer or heart disease—or take anti-asthma, anti-depressant, or hundreds of other medications—are often turned down when they try to purchase private health insurance, are granted only partial coverage, or offered only extremely high rates."

That is not surprising, most didn't want to buy health insurance when they were healthy and now are using that as an excuse not to be responsible for their actions now. They can still get health care, they just have to pay a lot more for their refusing to work for it when they could have had it a lot sooner and cheaper, it was a choice they made and a stupid one.

But regardless, if they have an emergency, they will be taken care of in spite of their stupidity anyway. You don't read about that much...

 

[California]

The majority of Californians are illegal citizens.

Murph you are lying.

 

[mtntopper]

I have to agree with the minority viewpoint on FF on the subject of medical care insurance for everyone in the USA is very much needed. We have a crisis brewing with medical care costs rising and the ability to give adequate medical care to all people regardless of income or ability to pay. Now that I have your attention, let me explain why this is necessary.

One of the major problems of medical care is that the people paying for their own services either by insurance or cash are subsidizing and paying for the people who are not paying and are receiving the free services or reduced rate services of the doctors and hospitals by paying higher costs than should be charged. This is not right that those who elect to buy insurance or pay for their medical care are paying a much higher rate than they should because others are not paying and are given services at a reduced rate or free. Do you want to pay more for your basic insurance premium or actual services as is now happening nationwide? I don't want to anymore as it is just not right to be forced by the medical industry into this type of situation which is what is happening today. That is one reason why medical costs are out of control, simply because too much ends up free or written off as noncollectable.

The federal government or the government at state level needs to step in and put a program together to make insurance and medical care available at a rate so all citizens can afford basic medical care. This program needs to be available and would not have an opt out to anyone that does not have private insurance now or the ability to self insure. I do not advocate a total free program to those using this, but the cost of the government sponsored insurance would be based on each persons income or by tax rate that they are paying to either the state or federal government. It is not a handout but a way to force everyone to pay for their own care and not freeload off of those that do pay their bill or buy insurance.

I recently had other ideas and questions in my mind along this line. One major obstacle to total health care for all is how do we control hospital costs which seem to be rising dramatically each year and beyond the ability of many to pay? I do not have all of the answers but this might be an interesting start. Private doctors and there services can remain outside of any type of government control as they exist today. All basic hospital care or services would require a doctor to admit the patience. At the time of admittance costs are controlled or possibly subsidized by a government type of program to control costs. This may or may not work as the doctors would realize that their income maybe adversely affected as soon as their patience is admitted by them to a hospital. Serious injury or illness would still go direct to the hospital but the cost controls and "everyone insurance" as proposed above would be in play if not insured otherwise upon admitance to any hospital.

Now help me devise a complete plan that might be effective to those that can and those that can't so we can go on with the war on terror and win.....

 

[thcri]

"Many Californians without job-based benefits cannot get health care coverage.

Murph you are lying.

It was in reference to Daedongs statement of Californians not being able to get health coverage. To me it is information that is inaccurate when California has so many aliens. Call me a liar I don't care it just tells me a lot about you.

 

[fogtender]

One major obstacle to total health care for all is how do we control hospital costs which seem to be rising dramatically each year and beyond the ability of many to pay?

Shoot the Lawyers and stop the class action lawsuits that are breaking the Doctors to where they are getting out of the system because they can't afford the Liability Insurance?

Since Lawyers are running up the cost of doing any business with bogus Class Action lawsuits that does nothing but make them rich, it should be a win/win if we cut the number of Lawyers down to say... oh, maybe a few here and there. Doctor's rates would drop like a rock...

 

[Melensdad]

Shoot the Lawyers and stop the class action lawsuits that are breaking the Doctors to where they are getting out of the system because they can't afford the Liability Insurance?

In the past I had many conversations with leaders in the insurance industry. I tend to agree that lawyers are a big part of the cost issue.

When I was a kid I broke my right arm. A simple and inexpensive X-Ray was used to confirm the diagnosis. An X-ray costs about $85.

Today if my kid broke her arm its very likely they'd do the same X-ray and then follow it up with a $1200 MRI to boot. Why? Because they don't want to get sued. And what do they say . . . hey don't worry about it, the insurance covers the cost!!!

Talk to a Oby-Gyn in a rural area. Wait, that is tough to do, for the most part they can't afford the insurance to practice in rural areas because the lawyers are so sue-happy that they have driven the Oby-Gynies into the cities where they have patient populations that are large enough to pay the 6-figure annual insurance policies!

Start by killing the lawyers!

 

[RedRocker]

Who mentioned free?

BTW, trade some guns in and get a plasma TV.

If you have a gun, you can get a TV, it doesn't work the
other way around.

 

[daedong]

If you have a National Health Care in Australia, why would you need a "Private Cover".... That would be a red flag that the basic care that is free isn't' all that great.



You are very correct, she knows if you tell them it is free, they want it...and will vote for those that give it. Doesn't mean she is right, she just knows how to pander to the Masses.



That is not surprising, most didn't want to buy health insurance when they were healthy and now are using that as an excuse not to be responsible for their actions now. They can still get health care, they just have to pay a lot more for their refusing to work for it when they could have had it a lot sooner and cheaper, it was a choice they made and a stupid one.

But regardless, if they have an emergency, they will be taken care of in spite of their stupidity anyway. You don't read about that much...

I'm not preaching our system is perfect, but the original point of this post was highlighting both the high costs to the US for health care and the high number of preventable deaths compared to other industrialised nations.
All systems have their problems. The fact of the matter remains the above two statistics mentioned highlight that you have a bigger problem than most industrialised nations. Just this morning I have gone surfing for information on the US health system, it is very clear that you have big problems and unless you change your system they are only going to become greater.

Stop running from the facts and face the problem.

http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml

One of the things that strikes me from what I have read this morning is your employer contribution system (it is unheard of in this country). One would suspect this is your prime source of the problem. You have something like 47 million people not contributing one zacaroo to health, and yet you still have a health bill per capita higher than other industrialised nations.

I am not going to go looking for any more research on the subject as it is very clear to me that regardless of the facts you won't acknowledge the problem.

A little bit about our system, basically everyone pays a medicare levy. From there you can choose to take additional private health insurance. About 43% of the population has private health cover. Per capita it costs less and there is less preventable deaths, and no social cost due to personal bankruptcy.

BTW it is 40C (104F) here today, day 7 of a heat wave with no end in sight, the bureau are forecasting at least another week of it breaking all records. So much for Autumn. (Wouldn't dare mention climate change though.)

 

[mtntopper]

Bob and Foggy, both of you are right about lawyers and lawsuits that affect the cost of health care for all. Again, those that pay either by insurance or paying for services are adversely affected by an outside source that needs controls. How do we stop this when we continue to elect more lawyers to govern us at each election because they can not find anyone to sue. We are very slow learners and it will not change until our complete thought process on electing those with self interests and ability to gain from being elected are not being sent to govern us anymore.

 

[daedong]

I recently had other ideas and questions in my mind along this line. One major obstacle to total health care for all is how do we control hospital costs which seem to be rising dramatically each year and beyond the ability of many to pay? I do not have all of the answers but this might be an interesting start. Private doctors and there services can remain outside of any type of government control as they exist today. All basic hospital care or services would require a doctor to admit the patience. At the time of admittance costs are controlled or possibly subsidized by a government type of program to control costs. This may or may not work as the doctors would realize that their income maybe adversely affected as soon as their patience is admitted by them to a hospital. Serious injury or illness would still go direct to the hospital but the cost controls and "everyone insurance" as proposed above would be in play if not insured otherwise upon admitance to any hospital.

Now help me devise a complete plan that might be effective to those that can and those that can't so we can go on with the war on terror and win.....

I would say our system is similar to what you are advocating.

 

[Melensdad]

Stop running from the facts and face the problem.

http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml

Nowhere does this lobbying website indicate how many people CHOOSE not to take health insurance!!!

When I owned my company we signed people onto our health insurance program whether they wanted it or not. It was up to them to 'opt out' of the policy. Surprisingly many did. Most were younger adults. Shockingly some had children. But we could not force them to have coverage no matter how much it cost me to cover them.

Then there is this totally idiotic statement on their website:

Nearly 40 percent of the uninsured population reside in households that earn $50,000 or more. A growing number of middle-income families cannot afford health insurance payments even when coverage is offered by their employers.

However it certainly goes to the point that many here have made, people choose to do stupid things with their money and then claim they can't afford health insurance. The reality is they choose to make health care a low priority for themselves and then bitch to high heavens because they are not provided free health insurance.

 

[daedong]

If you have a gun, you can get a TV, it doesn't work the
other way around.

Clever reply

 

[California]

Murph you are dealing in the stereotypes that roll around in your head, not with reality.

Please don't try to persuade us of anything if you don't know what you are talking about. I'm pretty certain you didn't read the article Vin cited, before you posted your uninformed opinion.


My younger daughter is one of those who can't get health insurance except at very high rates, I think more than 4x what was paid on her behalf when she was working and far higher than we paid so long as she was our dependent. She's the same individual, why the difference in rates?

What makes her an unfavorable customer? She worked hard in HS to get into a good college, then hard in college to get good grades, then immediately got a job in her field that others only dream of. OK so far. Then after two years of living inexpensively and saving a high percentage of her good, professional level income she decided to quit this job and do the travel that many kids this age like to do during or after college. Berg's daughter might be a similar example. I mentioned she went to New Orleans during Lent and volunteered for two weeks.

She has discovered her choices make her near uninsurable. She thought she had saved enough to travel for a year, maybe two if she lived frugally.

She discovered that the system doesn't want individuals who make choices like hers. Her calculation now is that medical insurance cost will force her back into conventional employment where the benefits will pay, as I said, a quarter or less of what she is obligated to pay as an individual. She's heartbroken that her plan to live free for a little while between college and adult responsibility is going to be severely curtailed by this unexpected cost.

My daughter is not an illegal alien.

 

[Deadly Sushi]

She discovered that the system doesn't want individuals who make choices like hers. Her calculation now is that medical insurance cost will force her back into conventional employment where the benefits will pay, as I said, a quarter or less of what she is obligated to pay as an individual. She's heartbroken that her plan to live free for a little while between college and adult responsibility is going to be severely curtailed by this unexpected cost.

Awww man. That sucks. See this is a PERFECT example of why this country needs everyone covered with healthcare. Alas, the price because of this economy just isnt realistic. Thank you Lenders/Bankers.

 

[daedong]

Bob, I was not advocating all that was in that site, I was simply using it as an example. I do not want to argue nitty gritty stuff. The US obviously has a problem, read Calfornia's post.

 

[California]

I have to agree with the minority viewpoint on FF on the subject of medical care insurance for everyone in the USA is very much needed. We have a crisis brewing with medical care costs rising and the ability to give adequate medical care to all people regardless of income or ability to pay. Now that I have your attention, let me explain why this is necessary.

One of the major problems of medical care is that the people paying for their own services either by insurance or cash are subsidizing and paying for the people who are not paying and are receiving the free services or reduced rate services of the doctors and hospitals by paying higher costs than should be charged. ... That is one reason why medical costs are out of control, simply because too much ends up free or written off as noncollectable.

The federal government or the government at state level needs to step in and put a program together to make insurance and medical care available at a rate so all citizens can afford basic medical care. This program needs to be available and would not have an opt out to anyone that does not have private insurance now or the ability to self insure. ...

Now help me devise a complete plan that might be effective to those that can and those that can't so we can go on with the war on terror and win.....

I think you nailed it. Everyone who does pay for insurance is carrying the cost for those people who aren't insured and then negotiate down an overwhelming bill that would bankrupt them, as well as for those who go to the ER for their health needs.

We are already carrying their cost. The only way to spread the cost is universal coverage like other civilized nations figured out already. This isn't do-gooder freebies for all, it is spreading the cost of those write-down and ER people across the largest possible base.

 

[fogtender]

I'm not preaching our system is perfect, but the original point of this post was highlighting both the high costs to the US for health care and the high number of preventable deaths compared to other industrialised nations.
All systems have their problems. The fact of the matter remains the above two statistics mentioned highlight that you have a bigger problem than most industrialised nations. Just this morning I have gone surfing for information on the US health system, it is very clear that you have big problems and unless you change your system they are only going to become greater.

Stop running from the facts and face the problem.

Your country has very little in the way of Illegal immigration and it's problems that come with it.

We have a system that is breaking down for the entirely wrong reasons that you think it is.

We have more people here illegally than it appears that the whole population of Australia has. Many of them are taxing our system getting services they don't work for or deserve, that is something that their home country should supply with the vast amounts of money they are bringing in on oil exports alone, but aren't.

Then we have the trial Lawyers that are suing the system out of existence. There are no checks in the system to stop the bogus class action lawsuits that have no end. A Doctor pays hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in insurance for these cases... and yes, "some" are valid, but most aren't.

It isn't the fact that we don't have your version of "Free" Health care, we in fact do already for those that truly need it or want to get it. It is the ones that don't want to work for it that I have the issues with, and they too are looking for the free ride.

If class action lawsuits alone came to an end, medical costs in this country would drop like a rock.

One of the things that strikes me from what I have read this morning is your employer contribution system (it is unheard of in this country). One would suspect this is your prime source of the problem. You have something like 47 million people not contributing one zacaroo to health, and yet you still have a health bill per capita higher than other industrialised nations.

I am not going to go looking for any more research on the subject as it is very clear to me that regardless of the facts you won't acknowledge the problem.

Again, you don't understand the problems with our system, it "IS" the best in the World, and that is why the World comes here when they need care. The problems are many fold and have nothing to do with the access, it is already here.

Those that are pushing for your kind of care are doing it out of the quest for power, not for the advancement of humanity.

A little bit about our system, basically everyone pays a medicare levy. From there you can choose to take additional private health insurance. About 43% of the population has private health cover. Per capita it costs less and there is less preventable deaths, and no social cost due to personal bankruptcy.

Our system works by having too many people wanting free stuff from the government that they have no idea how and who will pay for it. We are already paying more in taxes than you guys are. To install the same type of system that you have would raise our taxes from roughly 33% to almost 45% to pay for the monster that Hillary wants to impose.

BTW it is 40C (104F) here today, day 7 of a heat wave with no end in sight, the bureau are forecasting at least another week of it breaking all records. So much for Autumn. (Wouldn't dare mention climate change though.)

Well so far, the overall winter temps have been far below average across the United States. Record cold temps and snowfall are being broken daily. So much for early spring...

 

[fogtender]

I think you nailed it. Everyone who does pay for insurance is carrying the cost for those people who aren't insured and then negotiate down an overwhelming bill that would bankrupt them, as well as for those who go to the ER for their health needs.

We are already carrying their cost. The only way to spread the cost is universal coverage like other civilized nations figured out already. This isn't do-gooder freebies for all, it is spreading the cost of those write-down and ER people across the largest possible base.

As soon as the "Free Market" is taken out of the American Medical system, we will become one of the countries that have people going elsewhere to get quality health care that they can't get in their own country.

You will die waiting for approval based on your age, too old, never mind. The folks that need the medical attention the most are passed off because they are going to die soon anyway...

If you have cancer, they wait to see if it will go away before they do anything and then it is too late, again they save the big bucks from not doing what is right.

That is the same story that I hear on the Canadian Radio every time I drive though Canada, and it hasn't changed for the last couple of dozen years that I have gone back and forth though there.

Yes those that pay for insurance are paying for those that don't, but that is not going to make it cheaper for us if we "All" are forced to pay for it... Nothing the politicians do is cheaper...

 

[daedong]

fogtender, I can't find any stats on numbers of foreigners that travel to the USA for medical treatment, can you help me find some websites with this information?

 

[mtntopper]

As soon as the "Free Market" is taken out of the American Medical system, we will become one of the countries that have people going elsewhere to get quality health care that they can't get in their own country.

You will die waiting for approval based on your age, too old, never mind. The folks that need the medical attention the most are passed off because they are going to die soon anyway...

If you have cancer, they wait to see if it will go away before they do anything and then it is too late, again they save the big bucks from not doing what is right.

That is the same story that I hear on the Canadian Radio every time I drive though Canada, and it hasn't changed for the last couple of dozen years that I have gone back and forth though there.

Yes those that pay for insurance are paying for those that don't, but that is not going to make it cheaper for us if we "All" are forced to pay for it... Nothing the politicians do is cheaper...

Foggy, where are your facts to back up your statements above? Your statements are only your assumptions as you see it and are totally unproven and only conjecture on your part. You have no facts that show the USA system will be the same as those you are stating here. Maybe we can do it better. Let us not just assume it is going to be a failure until some research and actual prototypes are proposed and looked at. Slowdown and look at what you are paying for now. I am paying too much for what I am getting in return now. It will not get better until some steps are taken to control costs and make everyone responsible in some shape or form to have insurance to cover basic medical care.

I would really hope as the greatest nation on earth we have the ability to be able to do it better than the others. It has worked in the past and very possibly with an attitude like that we can make medical care for all no matter what the cost work for every citizen of the USA. Too many people are just pulling the idea of universal health care apart without knowing how it will be paid for and what the actual benefits can be for our country.

 

[mtntopper]

fogtender, I can't find any stats on numbers of foreigners that travel to the USA for medical treatment, can you help me find some websites with this information?

I here almost daily in the news of US citizens traveling to foreign countries to get specialized operations and health care that they say they can not afford in the US as they do not have insurance coverage for the high cost charged by our medical professionals. There are some major medical markets in Southeast Asia selling medical care to US citizens at much less than the costs in the US. Drugs are being sent into the US from around the world at a reduced cost to people who need or cannot afford the US prices. I am one that takes advantage of some of these reduced drug costs as my insurance deductible is higher than the cost to ship them in from a foreign country. Something is not right when you can get the same basic product at a much lower price by going across the ocean than in your home town.

 

[fogtender]

fogtender, I can't find any stats on numbers of foreigners that travel to the USA for medical treatment, can you help me find some websites with this information?

No idea what the numbers are, but the term Medical Tourism is a popular term to where both Americans and those from countries with "National Health care" travel to a "Third World Country" to get medical attention at cheaper rates because they don't want to buy health insurance.

But here is some of the info.

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=5b7c206e74b96be675410f6f369b5113

http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/case-study-swedish-medical-markets-medical-tourists/2007-10-01

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20080225/FREE/690430415/1007/HEALTH

http://www.americanhospitals.com/questions/american/amervalues.htm

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/05/21/headlines/headlines_30004531.php

http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/000480.html

http://www.unicare.cz/staff.htm

 

[fogtender]

I here almost daily in the news of US citizens traveling to foreign countries to get specialized operations and health care that they say they can not afford in the US as they do not have insurance coverage for the high cost charged by our medical professionals. There are some major medical markets in Southeast Asia selling medical care to US citizens at much less than the costs in the US. Drugs are being sent into the US from around the world at a reduced cost to people who need or cannot afford the US prices. I am one that takes advantage of some of these reduced drug costs as my insurance deductible is higher than the cost to ship them in from a foreign country. Something is not right when you can get the same basic product at a much lower price by going across the ocean than in your home town.

Do you not find it odd that someone says they can't afford to buy health insurance and then flies to a foreign country for thousands of dollars and spends even more to get something that a $400.00 a month policy would have covered? True that in third world countries you can get a Heart operation for a third of what it cost here, but if you are going to spend $20,000.00 instead of a policy that covers your entire family, it would seem that you are not really interested in saving money or taking care of yourself with medical insurance....

 

[fogtender]

Foggy, where are your facts to back up your statements above? Your statements are only your assumptions as you see it and are totally unproven and only conjecture on your part.

I said that is what the Canadians are saying on their radio stations and when I talk with them in person... no conjecture, just quoting. And the "Free Market" is what made America, not socialism!

You have no facts that show the USA system will be the same as those you are stating here. Maybe we can do it better. Let us not just assume it is going to be a failure until some research and actual prototypes are proposed and looked at. Slowdown and look at what you are paying for now. I am paying too much for what I am getting in return now. It will not get better until some steps are taken to control costs and make everyone responsible in some shape or form to have insurance to cover basic medical care.

I would really hope as the greatest nation on earth we have the ability to be able to do it better than the others. It has worked in the past and very possibly with an attitude like that we can make medical care for all no matter what the cost work for every citizen of the USA. Too many people are just pulling the idea of universal health care apart without knowing how it will be paid for and what the actual benefits can be for our country.

I have nothing but the greatest love for this nation, it is the people that corrupt it that I have not much tolerance for. The Lawyers are what is making our system fail from bogus Lawsuits that cripple the system for the common person (John Edwards made hundreds of millions with them), the illegals that should be sent home, the boarders guarded and the politicians that are not doing what is right for the Country fired.

Then there are the people here waiting for the handouts that the rest of us will end up paying for that are fully able to pay for themselves and chose not to.

If the Government was really interested in fixing the problems with our health care, then they would make Class action lawsuits a thing of the past. People that sue and lose, liable for all expenses and court costs, that alone would kill most of the court cases that have no merit. Close the boarders and start expelling those that are draining our health care resources and jobs that are here illegally.

At that point when they make the field fair to play on and they show that they are sincere about fixing the system, I would be much more inclined to believe them about a National Health Care system that is at this point, only another failed program before it starts.

 

[daedong]

No idea what the numbers are, but the term Medical Tourism is a popular term to where both Americans and those from countries with "National Health care" travel to a "Third World Country" to get medical attention at cheaper rates because they don't want to buy health insurance.

But here is some of the info.

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=5b7c206e74b96be675410f6f369b5113

http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/case-study-swedish-medical-markets-medical-tourists/2007-10-01

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20080225/FREE/690430415/1007/HEALTH

http://www.americanhospitals.com/questions/american/amervalues.htm

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/05/21/headlines/headlines_30004531.php

http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/000480.html

http://www.unicare.cz/staff.htm

Most of these articles are about US citizens going abroad for treatment, not the other way round.

 

[fogtender]

Most of these articles are about US citizens going abroad for treatment, not the other way round.

Not all, but some are, but you clearly didn't read them and get the point that they are leaving your country as well as the ones with "National Health Care" that you so proudly tout as "great", they can't get the service there and are going elsewhere, basically they state that social medicine sucks... which is my whole point that your are just pointing out! Thank you!