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Too sick(o) for Canada - go to the US!

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/2007/08/17/no-room-at-the-inn/

Nice story of how well the socialised health care system in Canada works. I read on another site how the US is Canada's safety cushion for it's worst cases and it's true. Increasingly, Canada just ships it's worst cases to the US since it's cheaper to pay the US hospital to treat them than it is to maintain the services in Canada.

Nice story below, don't forget that not only did they get healthcare in a city of less than 60,000 people (coming from a city of over a million) but the quadruplets are now American citizens too.

No room at the inn

The Dionne quintuplets were born on May 28, 1934, to a humble, French-speaking couple in a farmhouse outside of Callander, Ontario, Canada. They were identical sisters and for the first 10 years of their lives, the five girls were the No. 1 tourism attraction in Canada.
Then came free health care for all Canadians. Which is why the four identical Jepp sisters were born in Great Falls, Mont., instead of Calgary this weekend. The Canadian parents flew 325 miles to get to an American hospital.

Can you imagine being about to go into labor for four births, and then flying 325 miles to get to the hospital in another country? Incredible. Michelle Lang, Calgary Herald, reported:​
Their mother, Calgarian Karen Jepp, was transferred to Benefis Hospital in Montana last week when she began showing signs of going into labour, and no Canadian hospital had enough neonatal intensive-care beds for all four babies.​
73 years ago, a poor French Canadian mother was successfully able to give birth to five girls in a farmhouse in Ontario, but then the Canadian government took over the health system and — voila — Karen Jepp has to go to an American hospital 325 miles away.
It’s not like Great Falls, Mont., is a teeming metropolis. With 56,215 people, it is slightly larger than Charleston, W.Va. Calgary has more than a million people. This is like being demoted from the Milwaukee Brewers to the Charleston Alley Cats. (OK, they changed the team’s name to West Virginia Power.)
There is a difference between health care and health insurance. In capitalistic America, the concentration is on health. In socialistic Canada, the emphasis is on paying the bills. The story ended with how much the American hospital charged. Looks like a quarter-million bucks for a 5-day stay. Given that it was the quadruple birth of 2-pound babies two months premature, I’d say it was a bargain.
This is not to piss all over Canada. Nice nation. Great people. I’m sure most Canadians like their health system. Just remember, though, that Canada’s backup system is in Montana. Americans spend 15% of their income on health care. That’s why Great Falls has enough neo-natal units to handle quadruple births — and a “universal health” nation doesn’t.
After all, they didn’t fly Mrs. Jepp to Cuba, did they?

Prairie Pundit was even tougher in his analysis.

The entire Calgary Herald story is here.

UPDATE: Glenn Reynolds said, “Ouch.” Thanks!
Canadian blogger Kate at Small Dead Animals has a terrific take on the subject. She debunks that not-for-profit myth.

UPDATE 2: A first-time commenter reminded me the Jepp girls are AMERICANS now. Way to go, Canada.

Bob Leibowitz recalculated the odds for identical quads.​
This entry was posted on Friday, August 17th, 2007 at 6:43 am and is filed under Health care. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
 
Hey at least its still paid for and they get taken care of. My family has many health problems and its destroying their bank accounts and killing them from the stress of how they will pay their bills.
I'll take Canadas health care program over the US any day. Plus Canadians live longer. I dont like to admit it, but thats my true feelings.
 
Hey at least its still paid for and they get taken care of. My family has many health problems and its destroying their bank accounts and killing them from the stress of how they will pay their bills.
I'll take Canadas health care program over the US any day. Plus Canadians live longer. I dont like to admit it, but thats my true feelings.



Have you ever sat down and talked to a Canadian that needed medical attention and how they have to wait years to get taken care of??? I have and not one of them like their own system. One person has now waited over three years for a knee replaced. While it is going to be paid for she has to wait for the funds. From what I have heard of Canada's health system is it sucks. Maybe some one from Canada can enlighten us?


murph
 
Hey at least its still paid for and they get taken care of. My family has many health problems and its destroying their bank accounts and killing them from the stress of how they will pay their bills.
I'll take Canadas health care program over the US any day. Plus Canadians live longer. I dont like to admit it, but thats my true feelings.

Where's the money going to come from? PEOPLE. Not businesses (after all, the only money they get their hands on ultimately comes from wages).
So half the people don't have insurance now. So the other half will not only have to pay for their own care, which they pay for now, they'll have to pay for somebody else. Single - now you'll pay not only for yourself, but also for some single degenerate that pisses his money away on crack so you can take care of health issues. Married, no children, well, you'll get two of the bums listed previously. Family of 4 - you get to pay for 8.

And the government is so damn efficient. You and I would spend a buck, but the govt somehow figures out how to spend $3.50 for the same thing.

Gimme a break - think you are broke now - just wait until you start paying double for healthcare. Especially with the baby boomers coming into the glory years of medical expenses. What a debacle.

Look what prescription medicare costs are now. Something like 5 times the original estimates. Governement at its best.
 
Hey at least its still paid for and they get taken care of. My family has many health problems and its destroying their bank accounts and killing them from the stress of how they will pay their bills.
I'll take Canadas health care program over the US any day. Plus Canadians live longer. I dont like to admit it, but thats my true feelings.


I'll gladly pay for your one visit to Dr. Kevorkian.......:yum:
 
All I'm going to say is that in Canada, if you make more than 52K CDN a year you are in a 40% income tax bracket. Make more than 120K CDN a year and you are in the 50% club.

Don't forget the 13-14% sales tax on everything. Government controlled food marketing boards which means higher prices for milk and basic foods.

Oh yeah, you don't get to write you mortgage off against your taxes either.

Is the healthcare still "free"?
 
All I'm going to say is that in Canada, if you make more than 52K CDN a year you are in a 40% income tax bracket. Make more than 120K CDN a year and you are in the 50% club.

Don't forget the 13-14% sales tax on everything. Government controlled food marketing boards which means higher prices for milk and basic foods.

Oh yeah, you don't get to write you mortgage off against your taxes either.

Is the healthcare still "free"?

Hmmmmm lets see. The standard of living is still fantastic for the majority of the people there. AND they provide health care to the folks that otherwise could not afford it. Sounds good to ME.
All we have to do is boot the Mexicans out ( NOT the hot chicks though!) and we could easily afford free health care.
Peacekeeping in Iraq is pretty darn costly too. We could also redirect NASA to explore the oceans. But thats a whole other thread. :poke:
 
What I don't understand is why people claim we do not provide health care to people who can't afford it. Clearly we do that.

In fact it was interesting that my daughter was admitted to the Comer Children's Hospital at the University of Chicago (which is one of the best children's hospitals in the nation) recently WITHOUT us providing them proof of insurance or any other proof we could pay them a dime. They provided care and discharged us without ever so much as a question about the ability to pay.

About a week after she was released I got a call asking if we could pay and if we had insurance. I provided the information, but clearly if I could not have paid, the service had already been provided!
 
Hmmmmm lets see. The standard of living is still fantastic for the majority of the people there. AND they provide health care to the folks that otherwise could not afford it. Sounds good to ME.
All we have to do is boot the Mexicans out ( NOT the hot chicks though!) and we could easily afford free health care.
Peacekeeping in Iraq is pretty darn costly too. We could also redirect NASA to explore the oceans. But thats a whole other thread. :poke:

The standard of living in Canada is no where near as good as the US.

Canada is a great place to live if you don't want to work. However, the middle class is totally in debt and the upper class has lots of tax shelters. The lower "welfare" class has a great free ride.

It's a facade.
 
All I'm going to say is that in Canada, if you make more than 52K CDN a year you are in a 40% income tax bracket. Make more than 120K CDN a year and you are in the 50% club.

Don't forget the 13-14% sales tax on everything. Government controlled food marketing boards which means higher prices for milk and basic foods.

Oh yeah, you don't get to write you mortgage off against your taxes either.

Is the healthcare still "free"?
Maybe the question should be is their health care any good?

I have yet to see any evidence that the Canadian system is a good quality system but I've traded several PMs with one of our Canadian members who waited for 6 weeks to get a kidney stone taken care of. Here in the US that is usually a 2 to 4 day process.

I understand the desire to have free healthcare, but I want good healthcare. Further, after all the taxes are factored in, I don't see any bargain in the Canadian system.

Our healthcare is far from perfect, but going to a single payer system seems like a big mistake that only will lead to a greater dependence on a welfare state, which leads to bigger government, and I believe there is ample evidence to suggest that the high quality care we see in the US is not available in any nation that has a single payer/socialized medicine system.
 
we could easily afford free health care.

We could easily afford free health care? HELLO. Nothing is free. Maybe free to the lazy asses that won't work, but not free to me.

I'll tell you what - I'll send you a FREE 2008 Mercedes C65 if you just send me $150,000 shipping and handling fee. I'll even give you free tags for a year and pay the sales tax.
 
I really hate to agree with someone who "mows the lawn" and is not going in for open heart surgery. But deadly shushi is correct. We Americans just hear the hype. Try reading the studies. America spends all the money in the wrong places. The myth of great free enterprise health care is kept alive by advertising by the people who make the bucks, the corporations and doctors and hospitals. Does it make sense to you to refuse to provide health care in a clinic setting until the pt is so sick they have to go to the ER and it cost thousands. they dont care, theey dont pay, we do. AND THAT IS MY POINT, we already have the poorest ran form of universal medicine in the world. Everyone who walks into an ER tonight in any major metro hospital in the US will get care, and me and you will pay for it April 15 or with our local taxes, etc. We need the Canidian or British form of universal healthcare.
 
Sorry to make two posts in a row. I did a very quick search and I do not have access to my school library right now, so this is the best article explaining what I was trying to say.

Tue May 15, 2007 1:25AM EDT
By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Americans get the poorest health care and yet pay the most compared to five other rich countries, according to a report released on Tuesday.

Germany, Britain, Australia and Canada all provide better care for less money, the Commonwealth Fund report found.

"The U.S. health care system ranks last compared with five other nations on measures of quality, access, efficiency, equity, and outcomes," the non-profit group which studies health care issues said in a statement.

Canada rates second worst out of the five overall. Germany scored highest, followed by Britain, Australia and New Zealand.

"The United States is not getting value for the money that is spent on health care," Commonwealth Fund president Karen Davis said in a telephone interview.

The group has consistently found that the United States, the only one of the six nations that does not provide universal health care, scores more poorly than the others on many measures of health care.

Congress, President George W. Bush, many employers and insurers have all agreed in recent months to overhaul the U.S. health care system -- an uncoordinated conglomeration of employer-funded care, private health insurance and government programs.

The current system leaves about 45 million people with no insurance at all, according to U.S. government estimates from 2005, and many studies have shown most of these people do not receive preventive services that not only keep them healthier, but reduce long-term costs.

Davis said the fund's researchers looked at hard data for the report.

"It is pretty indisputable that we spend twice what other countries spend on average," she said.

Per capita health spending in the United States in 2004 was $6,102, twice that of Germany, which spent $3,005. Canada spent $3,165, New Zealand $2,083 and Australia $2,876, while Britain spent $2,546 per person.

KEY MEASURES

"We focus primarily on measures that are sensitive to medical care making a difference -- infant mortality and healthy lives at age 60," Davis said. "Those are pretty key measures, like how long you live and whether you are going to die before age 75."

Measures of other aspects of care such as cataract surgery or hip replacements is harder to come by, she said.

They also looked at convenience and again found the United States lacking -- with a few exceptions.

"We include measures such as waiting more than four months for elective, non-emergency surgery. The United States doesn't do as well as Germany but it does a lot better than the other countries on waiting time for surgery," Davis said.

"We looked at the time it takes to get in to see your own doctor ... (or) once you go to the emergency room do you sit there for more than two hours, and truthfully, we don't do well on those measures," Davis said.

According to the report, 61 percent of U.S. patients said it was somewhat or very difficult to get care on nights or weekends, compared with 25 percent to 59 percent in other countries.

"The area where the U.S. health care system performs best is preventive care, an area that has been monitored closely for over a decade by managed care plans," the report reads.

The United States had the fewest patients -- 84 percent -- reporting that they have a regular doctor.

And U.S. doctors are the least wired, with the lowest percentage using electronic medical records or receiving electronic updates on recommended treatments.



http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSN1430711120070515
 
I really hate to agree with someone who "mows the lawn" and is not going in for open heart surgery. But deadly shushi is correct. We Americans just hear the hype. Try reading the studies. America spends all the money in the wrong places. The myth of great free enterprise health care is kept alive by advertising by the people who make the bucks, the corporations and doctors and hospitals. Does it make sense to you to refuse to provide health care in a clinic setting until the pt is so sick they have to go to the ER and it cost thousands. they dont care, theey dont pay, we do. AND THAT IS MY POINT, we already have the poorest ran form of universal medicine in the world. Everyone who walks into an ER tonight in any major metro hospital in the US will get care, and me and you will pay for it April 15 or with our local taxes, etc. We need the Canidian or British form of universal healthcare.

So having the US Government take over and "Manage" it will cost the same? I DON'T THINK SO!
 
The standard of living in Canada is no where near as good as the US.

Canada is a great place to live if you don't want to work. However, the middle class is totally in debt and the upper class has lots of tax shelters. The lower "welfare" class has a great free ride.

It's a facade.

How can you go about making a statement like that! How do you base this statement. Have you ever lived in Canada? I'm not saying that we have a better lifestyle than you guys. I can't make that statement. I work, my wife works. Yes, there is unemployment in Canada. But there is a whole lot more down in the states. For your information, your Great ole Mr. President is inderectly responsible for putting allot of people in the area that I live out of work through his lumber traffifs. DO you see me on here shooting him down? No! Is our health care system perfect? NO! Is your health care system perfect? NO!

I don't want to pick a fight here but when I read a coment like that, I can obviously see that there are allot of narrow-minded people out there who just don't understand that just because their way of living works for them, it might not be the best answer for others. It just ticks me off to no end to read comments like that that totally shoot one nation down in order to put another up on a pedestal. Am I ticked? Yes! By you making that coment, you are essentially saying that Canada is full of lazy-a$$ people that have no ambition in life. What a narrowminded way to think! If I ever get like that, just do me a favor a slap me silly. I try to think possitively towards others no matter what nation they come from.....................
 
Maybe the question should be is their health care any good?

I have yet to see any evidence that the Canadian system is a good quality system but I've traded several PMs with one of our Canadian members who waited for 6 weeks to get a kidney stone taken care of. Here in the US that is usually a 2 to 4 day process.

Bob........I almost forgot about our exchange of pm's regarding that pesky kidney stone. Just to clarify why it took me six weeks to get it taken care of. Normally, it's the usual 2-4 days to pass a stone with most people. But with me, my stone was too big to pass and was stuck very close the the kidney itself. They flew me to a bigger center the morning after I first expereinced pain associated with the stone and put me under in attempt to go in and zapp the stone with a type of laser. It didn't work so they had to install a temporary shunt tube to bypass the kydney valve(think that's what it's called anyways) I was then booked in to one of very few centers that have a lithrotrypsy machine. The earliest I could get in was 3 weeks later. I had to fly out to Winnipeg Manitoba to get it done. I stayed there for a week to visit with family then came home. It was then a week later before I could get in to have the shunt tube removed. It could have been sooner if I lived in a bigger center but that's when the best time for me to do it was.

So, yes, they whole thing could have been done allot quicker but it's just how things worked out.
 
So having the US Government take over and "Manage" it will cost the same? I DON'T THINK SO!

Arrrrgh! Youre not using logic and looking at the whole picture of this topic. I feel you have been programmed by the Great Mind Robbers, Limbaugh or Hannity. Two assholes that will say anything and use anything in the favor of their beliefs. They dont use logic and look at all the information. I listened to them almost everyday for 4 years! They put blinders on. They are evil salesmen. I got tired of being a lemming. Im not jumping of the damn cliff like the people that listen to these salesmen. People think these guys are some sort of Pope in that they are always correct. Its like listening to propaganda from facist or commie country!

Well SNAP OUT OF IT! Look at all the information for yourself.... THEN.... THINK for yourself! BE A GREAT AMERICAN! Not just cattle in a heard. :thumb:
 
How can you go about making a statement like that! How do you base this statement. Have you ever lived in Canada? I'm not saying that we have a better lifestyle than you guys. I can't make that statement. I work, my wife works. Yes, there is unemployment in Canada. But there is a whole lot more down in the states. For your information, your Great ole Mr. President is inderectly responsible for putting allot of people in the area that I live out of work through his lumber traffifs. DO you see me on here shooting him down? No! Is our health care system perfect? NO! Is your health care system perfect? NO!

I don't want to pick a fight here but when I read a coment like that, I can obviously see that there are allot of narrow-minded people out there who just don't understand that just because their way of living works for them, it might not be the best answer for others. It just ticks me off to no end to read comments like that that totally shoot one nation down in order to put another up on a pedestal. Am I ticked? Yes! By you making that coment, you are essentially saying that Canada is full of lazy-a$$ people that have no ambition in life. What a narrowminded way to think! If I ever get like that, just do me a favor a slap me silly. I try to think possitively towards others no matter what nation they come from.....................

I lived in Canada for 30 years and am still a Canadian Citizen. I've lived and worked on both sides of the border. I still keep a close eye on Canada. The Canadian way of living didn't work for me. The taxes and high cost of living in the lower mainland was keeping me from ever obtaining financial independence even though I was in the 40% tax bracket. I took an opportunity to move to the US at a wage that was dollar for dollar equivalent to what I was making in Canada. All I can say is wow - suddenly I had money! I was making mortgage payments on my house in Canada while renting a house in the US and I still was saving money.

Trust me, if you had the same job down here and the same relative wage you would have a higher standard of living.

I stand by what I said. However, Canadians aren't lazy ass - at least not any more than Americans. There are lots of lazy asses on both sides of the border. Canadians are just naive in believing that their government can manage and control everything for them.

BTW - the President isn't responsible for the lumber tarriffs. They were actually put in place by a Democrat Sentor (Byrd I believe) and are the by-product of the lumber lobby more than the President. The President has to pick his battles and I don't think the lumber tarriffs are that high on his list of things he can do with his limited political capital.

I've experienced the healthcare systems in both countries and the US QUALITY is much higher than Canada's. Speed of diagnoses and thoroughness of diagnoses in the US is lightening fast compared to Canada. I'm glad I'm going to be able to grow old in the US.

Now do you want me to drop my gloves and slap your helmet off? :moon:
 
Sorry to make two posts in a row. I did a very quick search and I do not have access to my school library right now, so this is the best article explaining what I was trying to say.http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSN1430711120070515

The content of that article isn't even close to being objective. The "Commonwealth Fund" is a highly biased organization.

Let me take part of this statement to use as an example
"We focus primarily on measures that are sensitive to medical care making a difference -- infant mortality and healthy lives at age 60," Davis said. "Those are pretty key measures, like how long you live and whether you are going to die before age 75."

Infant mortality:
What was neglected to be mentioned is how each country measures this.
I don't have the time to check each of the countries in their study but in many countries, they don't include any low weight babies in their mortality rates. Since babies under about 5 pounds have a significantly higher mortality rate, the data is skewed. In the US data, these babies are counted. Are they counted elsewhere?
 
The content of that article isn't even close to being objective. The "Commonwealth Fund" is a highly biased organization.

Let me take part of this statement to use as an example
"We focus primarily on measures that are sensitive to medical care making a difference -- infant mortality and healthy lives at age 60," Davis said. "Those are pretty key measures, like how long you live and whether you are going to die before age 75."

Infant mortality:
What was neglected to be mentioned is how each country measures this.
I don't have the time to check each of the countries in their study but in many countries, they don't include any low weight babies in their mortality rates. Since babies under about 5 pounds have a significantly higher mortality rate, the data is skewed. In the US data, these babies are counted. Are they counted elsewhere?


Lets not forget that abortion is also calculated into the infant mortality figures in the US. Figures don't lie, but liars do figure. Personally I think that we should ship all the Canadians in Florida to Mexico, since many of them seem to think that we are cold hearted about the Mexican Illegal Immigration.
 
Normally, it's the usual 2-4 days to pass a stone with most people. But with me, my stone was too big to pass and was stuck very close the the kidney itself. They flew me to a bigger center the morning after I first expereinced pain associated with the stone and put me under in attempt to go in and zapp the stone with a type of laser. It didn't work so they had to install a temporary shunt tube to bypass the kydney valve(think that's what it's called anyways) I was then booked in to one of very few centers that have a lithrotrypsy machine. The earliest I could get in was 3 weeks later. I had to fly out to Winnipeg Manitoba to get it done. I stayed there for a week to visit with family then came home. It was then a week later before I could get in to have the shunt tube removed. It could have been sooner if I lived in a bigger center. . .
Just to be clear, I had the same type of situation. I had a massive stone, it was also stuck. I live 6 miles outside of a town of 6,000. Its a 90 minute drive on the interstate to get to Chicago from where I live. Its a 120 minute drive on the interstate to get to Indianapolis. However, there are mobile Lithotrypsy machines that go from community hospital to community hospital. You just find their schedule and show up at the hospital closest to you and the procedure is done as an outpatient procedure. Depending on the hospital you choose, your maximum wait is about 4 days. I drove about 20 miles to have mine done, it was handled in 2 days. No need for a shunt. No need for invasive anything. And a whole lot less expensive overall too.

Again, I don't say our system is perfect. In fact there is a lot to complain about. We have excellent medical care. The medical care is the best in the world. But we do have a lot of cost built into the wrong places in our system. Malpractice insurance can be so expensive that in rural areas it is difficult to support specialists. "Lifestyle" drugs and cosmetics are a big part of the system, and very profitable. And even something as simple as a broken arm, that can be diagnosed with a $75 X-Ray is often diagnosed with a $1000 "MRI" because the doctor knows the insurance will cover the bill, and the lawyers know that if the doctor doesn't use the 'best' available in the situation then he can sue for malpractice.

But as for free care. My sister in law has no money. She is in debt. She lives under my roof rent free. She also requires very expensive care for her rheumatoid arthritis as she did not respond to many of the normal treatments. Her treatments are $10,000 per month. The doctor she goes to got her the treatment FOR FREE. The manufacturer is paying the bill. They do this for many people for many diseases. Sometimes, under the American system, all you have to do is show a need, and ask for help.
 
bczoom you are exactly right. It is always what you use to measure. Wnen you hear about the advantages of healthcare in this country often times it is access to MRI's, CT's or lithotrispy machines, open heart is often mentioned as one of the things we do well. These things are all high profit, big ticket items. Prevention does not have the cash incnetive. I usually agree with the right but I believe it is very important to look at issues and decided what is right for each one. Health care is my profession and I have changed my opinion. The greed of the medical profession, the drug companies, and others are far worse than the mere incompetence of government. I have to go but if I remember I will tell you aobut the procedures performed on my Dad as he was dying because he had great insurance.
 
These things are all high profit, big ticket items.

Health care is my profession and I have changed my opinion.
Please elaborate. In particular how/why you've changed your opinion?

As I'm sure you're aware, most insurer contracts with providers are based closely on Medicare reimbursement rates.

Since Medicare uses specific fee schedules, it doesn't matter a lot what the provider charges.

Making it as simple as I can...

Let's say someone gets a MRI and the provider (minus professional component) charges $400. Medicare has a specific reimbursement rate based on the CPT code (plus any modifiers) and probably reimburses the provider $120. Commercial insurance may reimburse at $140.

So, everyone gripes about (and uses) provider charges as a basis for healthcare costs in the USA but it should be more based on reimbursement.

I can charge you a million dollars for a Coke and a Snickers but if our contract says I can put whatever I want on the bill but you're only paying 1 dollar for a Coke and a Snickers, that's the way it works.
 
The way I have changed is I just dont beleive EVERYTHING the conservatives say. I really do see how our health care system works everyday.

I love it when people make it simple for me. thank you. But lets take for example a few years ago when I had a little belly pain. I have an excellent insurance policy. The doc sent me for a CT, I think my insurance company paid $1800.00 and I paid ten percent of that. Abosf** lutely no reason for that except my insurance company would pay for it. ANd you are right, I just did it because my insurance would pay for it.

Are you talking about paying $140.00 for an MRI? You cant get a CXR for that. Maybe %10 of the total, which would still be cheap.
 
You know, I have had a few beers, but this is a subject I really understand andd would love to discuss more thourghly. But I am slightly buzzed. I will get back to this tommorw.
 
Are you talking about paying $140.00 for an MRI? You cant get a CXR for that. Maybe %10 of the total, which would still be cheap.
I stand corrected. My $400 reference was the Medicare reimbursement rate.

I hurt my knee awhile back and thought I tore something. Md's office was closed and I couldn't get a referral so just for the heck of it I called the Imaging place directly. A MRI was about $400 cash. I did some checking

MRI Lower Extremity (joint) = CPT code 73721
Here's the info I found as average Medicare Reimbursement rates (note: 2005 rates found).
CPT 73721 Magnetic resonance (eg, proton) imaging, any joint of lower extremity; without contrast material

Technical $439.23
Professional $70.11
Total $509.34

So, when I called the Imaging center, I though they were going to charge me full rate, not the Medicare rate (which is significantly less). The price they quoted me (cash price) is the same as the Medicare rate. I honestly thought they were giving me the full rate.

From the info I have handy, it appears the "Full Rate" is $960.
 
That still sounds like a pretty good deal for an MRI. If I can digress for a few min. THe 1800.00 dollar CT was still paid for by all of us, even thought my health insurnace policy paid for it. It just makes it less painfull to pay an incredible amount to an insurance company monthly and the large bills paid by the company occassionally. I really cannot type fast enought to express my thoughts very well in this fourm, but if insurance compaines were a good deal for us it would not be so profitable for the company itself. Remember who came up with medical insurance, Doctors. Dang I type so slow. I gotta go take my kid to a football game. Be back.
 
What I don't understand is why people claim we do not provide health care to people who can't afford it. Clearly we do that.

In fact it was interesting that my daughter was admitted to the Comer Children's Hospital at the University of Chicago (which is one of the best children's hospitals in the nation) recently WITHOUT us providing them proof of insurance or any other proof we could pay them a dime. They provided care and discharged us without ever so much as a question about the ability to pay.

About a week after she was released I got a call asking if we could pay and if we had insurance. I provided the information, but clearly if I could not have paid, the service had already been provided!

What if you were out of work? Either you pay $1200+ a MONTH for health insurance on COBRA and keep it or you dont and loose it.
If you cant afford $1200+ a month for it, then where would you be?

Let me explain something. People that are against National health care are in a good monetary position. But if you live life, living paycheck to pay check and then you loose your job (just ONE example) and have a health emergency.... what do you do?
Just answer that. Seriously. People that are against health care dont have the balls too. They try to change the situation.
Money is everything folks. Love dont pay the bills. When you dont have it and something BAD happens, a familys poverty gets even WORSE. And if you DONT pay?????????????????????????????
Bad credit! NEED to get something that requires credit!?!?!?!?? :yum:
Either you get "NO"! or you pay a HUGE APR. So, you suffer finacially MORE!

Sounds good doesnt it? So how do you answer NO National Health Care folks?????? Ya. I thought so.
 
What do you think people did before all this welfare? They worked to provide for themselves and the family. That is the problem with you youngsters.... you want everything for free, without working. Our government has created a whole generation of non productive people that feel it is governments problem to supply them with their needs. Government isn't going to take care of you from cradle to grave. They just don't have the funds to do so.....
 
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