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Why primary care doctors are fed up

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
Thought this was interesting. It is a doctor writing, and he says a heck of a lot in this commentary. It certainly doesn't speak well for ObamaCare, or for that matter, overall care.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/25/harris.primary.care.doctor/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn

(CNN) -- Health policy experts agree that any reform in our health care system must include a well-educated, caring primary care doctor who is able to manage the health of his or her patients with an eye to using resources optimally to keep costs down.

That's a tall order and it seems that few policy makers realize the value of primary care physicians.

People are making a huge assumption in this reform effort that as we extend coverage to millions who don't have health insurance, there will be doctors there to actually provide the health care. Fewer and fewer medical students are choosing primary care and many primary care doctors are leaving the field.

Let me share with you why we are losing so many primary care doctors. What follows are a few examples I experience each week.

art.vance.harris.jpg

Dr. Vance Harris says primary care doctors
get minuscule payment for saving the system
huge sums of money.​
How many dozens of chest pain patients have I seen in the last month for whom I didn't order an EKG, get a consult, set up nuclear imaging or send for a catheterization?

Only I have the advantage of knowing how anxious some are and that they have had similar symptoms over the last 20 years. After a history and exam, I am willing to make the call that this is not heart disease. In doing so, I save the system tens of thousands of dollars.

Most of these patients are worked into a busy day, pushing me even deeper into that mire of tardiness for which I will be chastised by at least six patients before the end of the day. My reward for working these people in and making the call is at most $75.

How many times has an anxious patient come in demanding an endoscopy who I examined and then decided to treat less invasively for three to four weeks first? Few of these patients are happy no matter how many times I explain that it is reasonable to treat their reflux symptoms for several weeks before endoscopy.

This delay in referral has led to many tense moments in the last 20 years. The cost savings to the system is thousands of dollars each and every time I am willing to make the call and go with the treatment. My reward is about $55 from Medicare and private health insurers.

How many low back pain patients have come to the office in agony knowing that there has to be something serious to cause this kind of pain? A good history and exam allows me to reassure the patient that there is nothing we need to operate on and that the risk of missing anything is low.

This takes a lot of time to explain as I teach them why they don't need an MRI. If someone else ordered the MRI, guess who gets to explain the significance of bulging disks to an alarmed patient? Setting realistic expectations on recovery and avoiding needless imaging helps saves the system thousands of dollars. My reward is another $55.

How many diabetics do I struggle with, trying to get them to take better care of themselves? How many hours have I spent with teenage diabetics who will not check their blood sugar and forget half of their insulin doses?

Hundreds of hours seem wasted until one day they open their eyes and want to take care of themselves. My reward for years of struggle is a few hundred dollars at best. The savings to society for my hard work and never-give-up attitude is in the tens of thousands of dollars.

I am in my 22nd year in practice, now caring for 3,600 patients. Having me in the system has resulted in savings in the hundreds of thousands of dollars each and every year. My financial incentive to hang in there and work harder is that I now make less than half what I did 20 years ago. This year I will make even less.

These are the reasons so many physicians have left medicine entirely and most of us who are left wonder how long can we continue to work like this? I have always served my fellow man out of a sense of love and compassion. That's why I went into medicine.

I have been richly rewarded by my patients over the decades as they have appreciated my judgment and skills. Isn't it a shame that after all this time and with skills honed by decades of experience, many of us can no longer afford to work as a physician?

No one is talking about this on the national level. If they don't address these issues, then good luck having physician assistants provide the safety net with two years of training. Good luck getting newly trained physicians once they see our salaries. Good luck finding internists in your community with only 1 percent of medical students going into internal medicine.

Good luck recruiting primary care specialists when we are projected to be short 39,000 by 2020, according to the American Academy of Family Physicians. And nearly half of all doctors surveyed by the Physicians' Foundation have said that over the next three years they plan to reduce the number of patients they see or stop practicing entirely.

I know this is true because I am struggling to find a primary care doctor to take care of my wife and myself. Now that is ironic. Anyone know who is taking new patients in California?​
 
That guy sugar coated the work he does.

How many nasty yeasty pap smears does he perform?
How many foul un-clean butt's has he had to stick his fingers up?
How many obese stupid people has he seen that refuse to take care of themselves?
How many lying drug seekers does he see?
How many lesions, sores, and STD's (i.e. vaginal warts) does he have to diagnose?
What about all the oozing and squirting boils and cysts that he has to pop?

These poor shmucks are forced to practice defensive medicine under the guise of "patient driven care" or some other BS term. The only reason they have to order all these tests is because some slimeball trial lawyer will sue them if they miss something that wasn't presenting itself with classic systems.

Anyone that has ever gone into their doctor's office demanding unnecessary tests, procedures, or drugs deserves socialized medicine. IMO these doctors all deserve more money than they are getting. I sure couldn't do their job without offending a lot of patients.
 
I agree. My neighbor is a PCP who is thinking of going into teaching and getting out of practice. He lives in a modest home in a working class suburban neighborhood with three kids, and his wife HAS to work as a RN to keep them even. At this point in his medical career he should have had his student loans paid off, but his pay continues to stay stagnant, which means it is actually going down. He has told me that he gets $55 per patient visit on the top end, and this barely covers expenses for the office and staff, much less enough for opulent living. He has a CPA friend who is making more than TWICE what he is making, and does not have to take the shit the doctor does.
 
I agree. My neighbor is a PCP who is thinking of going into teaching and getting out of practice. He lives in a modest home in a working class suburban neighborhood with three kids, and his wife HAS to work as a RN to keep them even. At this point in his medical career he should have had his student loans paid off, but his pay continues to stay stagnant, which means it is actually going down. He has told me that he gets $55 per patient visit on the top end, and this barely covers expenses for the office and staff, much less enough for opulent living. He has a CPA friend who is making more than TWICE what he is making, and does not have to take the shit the doctor does.

I think we may all know a doctor or two like this.

This is a big concern if we pass something like ObamaCare because it will rely on having more, not less, primary care physicians. I would have to guess they they will do something like limit the number of doctors for each specialty? Or mandate that doctors give a specified number of years G.P.s if they take out student loans to pay for their education? Or both!
 
I think we may all know a doctor or two like this.

This is a big concern if we pass something like ObamaCare because it will rely on having more, not less, primary care physicians. I would have to guess they they will do something like limit the number of doctors for each specialty? Or mandate that doctors give a specified number of years G.P.s if they take out student loans to pay for their education? Or both!
Do you mean to say that the government would even tell the students what they could study? Why....this sounds like something that would come out of the old Soviet Union. Certainly you are speaking out of your ass when you talk like this. This must be a plot by those evil, trouble making Republicans, not the kind and loving Democrats who are only concerned with what is best for Amerika.

(All said with tongue firmly planted in cheek)
 
These poor shmucks are forced to practice defensive medicine under the guise of "patient driven care" or some other BS term. The only reason they have to order all these tests is because some slimeball trial lawyer will sue them if they miss something that wasn't presenting itself with classic systems.

Actually, that's not what the article is about at all. The guy never even mentions his premium cost.

Read it again, PB. The guy's pissed because he's been beaten down on his charges but is saving the system tons of money because he's NOT ordering unnecessary tests. A point that belies that notion that the cost of healthcare is being driven up unnecesarily by docs ordering tests out of fear of being sued.

And on the cost of med mal cases, here's an interesting article:

http://www.insurance-reform.org/pr/090722.html
 
Actually, that's not what the article is about at all. The guy never even mentions his premium cost.

Read it again, PB. The guy's pissed because he's been beaten down on his charges but is saving the system tons of money because he's NOT ordering unnecessary tests. A point that belies that notion that the cost of healthcare is being driven up unnecesarily by docs ordering tests out of fear of being sued.

And on the cost of med mal cases, here's an interesting article:

http://www.insurance-reform.org/pr/090722.html

That's an interesting article. That information and perspective is certainly not getting passed through to the doctors I know. They all complain that they are essentially scared of getting sued by their patients so they just order the tests.

Perhaps the lawyers have done their job so well that they have empowered the patient into demanding more tests from the doctors and the doctors are just giving in to the patient demands. I think the underlying trend I hear from the doctors I know is that patients are a lot less respectful of doctor's these days and and many of them feel they can get better advice from Google than they can from their doctor.

The writer of the article may have stated that he was not ordering unnecessary tests but at the same time he did not see an incentive for his actions. I think he was insinuating that he would make more money by ordering the tests.

I still stand by my earlier statements that the ambulance chasers have contributed to the increasing costs whether it be by large excessive settlements or by empowering the patient to demand excessive tests. I also think doctor's should be paid more than lawyers. :poke:
 
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