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Too sick(o) for Canada - go to the US!

Junkman, youre idea of work ethic is dead on. I agree with you many times.
Junkman youre a good man. But your math is wrong. What you feel in your heart is correct for 85% of the population.
But factor in the poor. No... Im NOT talking about the lazy bastards. Im talking about the good people that are poor.
Factor THEM into your equasion. What if you somehow lost your money and were DEPENDANT on others helping you?
What would a good man do then? :(
 
When I went to college, I worked 60 hours a week in a body shop to pay my tuition, room & board. Many days, I shared a jar of peanut butter and crackers with the dog, since I didn't have enough money left to buy him and myself food. I worked every summer, and attended summer school. I had a good incentive to work and go to school. I wanted to learn, and I wasn't about to take anything from anyone past the first semester, which my parents paid for. When I got out of school, I couldn't get a job since I was subject to the draft. I offered to work for a company for one week free of charge just to prove that I could do the work, and then landed that job. I got my draft notice the following week, so I told them about it, and was promptly fired. I never was drafted, but I did do a lot of menial jobs after that just to survive. I have been working ever since. Those people that want to work will find work to do, even if it isn't what they are trained to do. Work is work, and even if you have to work for minimum wage, it is still better than sitting home not working. I don't drink or smoke, so I get to save a lot of money that others see go up in smoke or down the toilet. (Pun intended) I know that you drink, but I don't know if you smoke. My guess is that you do both. I also know that you don't have a girlfriend, so that isn't an expense for you. Look at the money that you waste, and just think of where you would be if you didn't waste that money!!! I'll bet it would be a lot better off than you presently are. Spend less time trimming your bushes, and working more, and you will be a lot more desirable to many women...:idea:
 
Junkman I'll tell you (and everyone I guess) a tad about me.
My mother had MS. She was bed-ridden for the last 6 years of her life. She couldnt shut her eyes completely. She had many MAJOR bed soars. She couldnt eat because she couldnt swallow. She couldnt even cough up her own phlem. I had to use a machine to suction it out. She had a visiting nurse every day. 8 till 4. When she was well enough she attempted to kill herself twice. I dont remember her ever speaking. She died when I was 18.
My father used to slap her. I dont know why because I was too young. He loved me but mentally abused me. I took my girlfriends over and he hit on them. His line was is there is grass on the field, play ball. He had affairs with my moms nurses. I caught him getting a BJ from my GRANDMOTHER.
He is Bi-Polar. Anyhow I dont care. He drove anything good or pleasureable into the ground. He mentally abused me and atill trys too, though I dont think he really understands it all.
This turned me into a really odd kid. I was hated by most and loved by some at school. My grades were always shit. My emotional stuff was like Katrina on New Orleans.
My grandparents moved far away after their daughter died and left me all alone. Grandparents on my dads side died before I was born.
My dads side of the family always faked that they love eachother because when they met they drank sooooo much.
I have tried to make the best of things as a salesman. I hate it. But its the only way I can make enough money. It was my fathers idea to get into it. Im stuck now. I dont have money to go back to college. And if I did I dont have the time.
I get panic attacks. Im depressed. Im 36 with $300 in the bank and nothing saved. My company is from my 2 pals. Cats.
Women I meet arent worth my time. Ive had 2 DUIs so going out to meet chicks isnt an option in a FUN environment.
Well.... back to my point.... I get panic attacks. Ive been without insurance MANY MANY times. And yet once every 6 months I feel like Im having a heart attack. I call 911 and they take me the ER. $6,000 bill. Add that up over 15 years. Then add to that when I didnt have insurance. I dont pay the bills because I CANT. My credit is SHIT. So my car payment on a 03 Camry is at 19% APR. Fair????????
I forgot my point. I can write 10 TIMES what I have written about the horrible things that happened in my life.
Youre a strong man. Im not. Im very weak. I cant take stress anymore. Im VERY VERY afraid about life. I have been hit VERY hard SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many times, I can hardly breathe.
I only wish I had the moxie you have. Seriously, I would give anything for it.
 
Sushi

Everybody has a story. Mine is long too. However, somehow, you need to look forward and not backward. As you keep looking backwards you convince yourself you are entitled to all sorts of stuff; you have a reason after all. NOT!

Fact is, you won't get it.

Fact is, you need to forget the past, or subdue it, and somehow get a "I can do it" attitude and go for it. You do not have that right now. Not even close. You will not be successful whining about your past. It is over. You can't change it. You can change your future. I have nbo idea on how to help you switch your outlook, but you need a change dude.
 
I wish I could. Alas I had to use my VERY VERY VERY VERY personal life to get a message sent.
People need help. The ones that do usually cant afford it. Some kill themselves. Some find a social program in their area.
For ME...... I have tried to destroy 25 years worth of memories. (Im 36) Destroy them. Chin UP!!!!!!!! Smile (get ready for the wind blown out of your sails) and SELL!!!!
I just started selling IT equipment to large companies. Oddly enough they think Im REALLLLLLY confident. Thing is Im afraid to call anyone on my list. :smileywac
 
Per capita health spending in the United States in 2004 was $6,102, twice that of Germany, which spent $3,005. Canada spent $3,165, New Zealand $2,083 and Australia $2,876, while Britain spent $2,546 per person.

I am very happy with our system even though it is not perfect. You must take into account when looking at the figures above that Australia is a large country with a small vastly spread population. Due to the spread of population we have hundreds of small regional hospitals which serve very small numbers of people compared to most other nations. this creates logistical and financial burdens yet we can still be up amongst the best cared for in the world.


Some facts about our system

1--------- employers do not pay health insurance it is up to the individual
2---------everyone is covered under public health (medicare)
3---------everyone pays a medicare levy based on income
4---------high income earners pay a higher levy if they choise not to have private insurance
5--------About 30 to 40 % have private health cover
6--------- You can chose to be treated as a public patient even if you have private cover
 
I am very happy with our system even though it is not perfect. You must take into account when looking at the figures above that Australia is a large country with a small vastly spread population. Due to the spread of population we have hundreds of small regional hospitals which serve very small numbers of people compared to most other nations. this creates logistical and financial burdens yet we can still be up amongst the best cared for in the world.


Some facts about our system

1--------- employers do not pay health insurance it is up to the individual
2---------everyone is covered under public health (medicare)
3---------everyone pays a medicare levy based on income
4---------high income earners pay a higher levy if they choise not to have private insurance
5--------About 30 to 40 % have private health cover
6--------- You can chose to be treated as a public patient even if you have private cover

Vin,

I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong but I suspect Australia has what is called a Two-Tier system similar to Britains. This is where people with money can by-pass the slower less efficient government run system and seek healthcare for a fee (either they pay for it or their healthcare does).

In Canada it is a single tier system. Everyone is forced to use the government run system and Doctor's are not allowed to run seperate systems or offer preferred services. BTW - The only other countries with single tier systems are Cuba and North Korea.

The hypocrisy is what gets me. While the left leaning population of the US thinks the "health care system" of Canada is so great they are blind to the truths:

A. It costs "something" higher taxes and monthly fees (based on income too I believe).
B. There is a hidden second tier - the USA. Either the Canadian citizen pays for it out of their own pocket or if the Canadian government feels it just doesn't have the resources they purchase the needed healthcare in the US.

I guess my main emphasis is that Canada's system is a good system, however the US still provides better healthcare for the average middle class person - the same type of person that is paying the bulk of it in Canada and not getting the same level of service as someone on welfare or someone that can afford to go to the US.

PB
 
I type so slow I cant keep up with what I am thinking so I have a hard time not skipping around. I am by no means a leftist. I just know the US medical system intimately. I cannot remember all the details becasue I have not really thoght about it for a while, but doctors started up medical insurance companies. People back then only paid for what they could afford, which could mean every penny they had for life saving treatments, sometimes every penny wasnt enough. So doctors, being the smart guys they are, looked at life insuracne and how life companies took a nickle a week for an industrial policyand said, Lets get their money every week. And the rest is histroy. If you think medical insurance is a good deal think aobut how much insurncance companies are worth. They should be taking your money and paying you medical bills with it. Instead tehy build bizillion dollar buildings and have rich exec's running the place.
Now days the insurance companies and doctors seem to be at odds over what the companys pay for. Really they are not. One place I worked for after graduation had an RN who reviewed insurance policies and medicare andd found procedures and conditions that would be paid for. Doctors just talior their care plans to what the insuracne companies pay. Then insurance compainies raise your rates and pay more for services after keeping some for profit. In the long run it is more profit for everyone.
My Dad was in the hospital dying of leukemia a year ago or so. While he was actively dying doctors kept coming by, looking at his chart and charging a consult. He had great insurance. He was DNR and the hospital and doctors kept trying to get permission to perform other procedures, my sister allowed theem to do a bronch that nearly killed him, I pretty much went off because if they did find what they were looking for they could do nothing about it, in other words, the insuracne paid for the procedure and the Docs wanted to do it. He only made it a few days past the procedure.
I can go on and on about what is wrong with this system. I have really really good health insurance, but I still think the US system is incredible dysfunctional.
One last thought
You know I live in Indianapolis Indiana. A few years ago I read in the local paper this city's infant mortalitiy rate was the highest in the coutry. Again I am citing things I have not looked up lately but the article went on to site several third world countries with cities with better infant mortatlity rates than Indy. the most important thing about infant mortality is prevention, and there is jsut not that much money in prevention. On the other hand there are several Heart Centers in the area. A friend of mine runs one and was telling me recently the market (Indy area) is saturated with heart care. No way is there enough buisness to keep all the centers open with the population in Indy. There is advertising all the time about if you have a little heartburn you better run to the center and get checked out. Oh and if you rule out, it will probably cost only a few thousand. Big profits, so all the hospital and docs went for it, I guess at least that makes for competition.
 
...................
One last thought
You know I live in Indianapolis Indiana. A few years ago I read in the local paper this city's infant mortality rate was the highest in the country. Again I am citing things I have not looked up lately but the article went on to site several third world countries with cities with better infant mortality rates than Indy. the most important thing about infant mortality is prevention, and there is just not that much money in prevention. ...............QUOTE]

The infant mortality rate includes abortion. I agree that there should be more prevention, but the Federal government wants to teach ABSTINENCE, NOT PREVENTION!! There is lots of money in prevention if you consider the value of the companies that sell condoms. You just need to get more kids to use them and the Government to recommend them ..
 
By prevention I meant prevention of complications of pregnancy as in Prenatal vitamins, nutrition for Mom, smoking cessation etc. I dont know how crazy I am about the govt passing out condoms. I had to go buy my own when I was a kid.
 
What if you were out of work? Either you pay $1200+ a MONTH for health insurance on COBRA and keep it or you dont and loose it.
If you cant afford $1200+ a month for it, then where would you be?

Let me explain something. People that are against National health care are in a good monetary position. But if you live life, living paycheck to pay check and then you loose your job (just ONE example) and have a health emergency.... what do you do?
Just answer that. Seriously. People that are against health care dont have the balls too. They try to change the situation.
Money is everything folks. Love dont pay the bills. When you dont have it and something BAD happens, a familys poverty gets even WORSE. And if you DONT pay?????????????????????????????
Bad credit! NEED to get something that requires credit!?!?!?!?? :yum:
Either you get "NO"! or you pay a HUGE APR. So, you suffer finacially MORE!

Sounds good doesnt it? So how do you answer NO National Health Care folks?????? Ya. I thought so.
First, $1200 via COBRA? Do you have a family of 6 you're trying to cover???

For lower income, there is a program called Medicaid so there is a government healthcare program for those that can't afford commercial insurance.
 
Its difficult to get accepted for Medicaid. You have to be piss broke. (Make under $25K/year if I remember) But you have a good point.
 
What do you think people did before all this welfare? They worked to provide for themselves and the family. That is the problem with you youngsters.... you want everything for free, without working. Our government has created a whole generation of non productive people that feel it is governments problem to supply them with their needs. Government isn't going to take care of you from cradle to grave. They just don't have the funds to do so.....

Holy crap I agree with Junkman! :4_11_9:

And all this time I thought you were one of those bed-wetting liberals.:pat: :idea: :poke:
 
For lower income, there is a program called Medicaid so there is a government healthcare program for those that can't afford commercial insurance.

There are also free healthcare programs in every state for kids under 19. If you don't know about these then you need to put a little effort into researching them.

I remember the Oregon Governor stating that the problem his state had was that people weren't aware of the programs that were already available to them.

Not only do these people want free health care they want people to fill out the forms and tell them what to do. Sounds like a nanny state to me.
 
I am trying to say I perfer the incopetence of government to the greed of the medical establishment that exists today. If suddenly tommorw we had to pay out of pocket for all services that might be the best solution. But that is not going to happen in any case.
 
Here is a possible simple solution I see to medical care in America:

1. Allow people to buy the coverage they WANT. Right now, as I understand it, all policies by law have mandated coverage such as maternity and mental health, etc. This drives the premiums up beyond the ability of most people to pay. If you do not want this coverage, why should you be forced by the government to pay for it?

2. Once we can buy what WE choose, then we can choose major medical coverage for the large unforseen medical problems like heart disease and cancer, and emergency treatment.

3. Pay for your routine doctor visits with cash. Doctors charge ridiculous prices for office visits for insured individuals because they have to wait for insurance payments. I went on a cash basis with my doctor once because of a snafu with my insurance company. The price for insured patients was $60 at that time. My cash price was $30; 1/2 price.

The problems we have now are government induced and made worse by insurance lobbyists in the back-pockets of politicians. The answer to this problem is not more government intervention; that is asking for a solution from the people who caused the problem in the first place and who currently benifits from the problem they helped cause.
 
#3 is exactly what I am talking about. It is not because they have to wait, they charge twice as much becasue they can. The insurance company will pay them becasue you pay for it with your insurance premiums.
 
#3 is exactly what I am talking about. It is not because they have to wait, they charge twice as much becasue they can. The insurance company will pay them becasue you pay for it with your insurance premiums.

Our third party payer system is indeed the cause of this. Let the consumer decide what they want and you force doctors and insurance companies to compete for our health care dollars. Right now, there is no competition and they know it and have zero incentive to change.
 
Look ALLLLLL around. Maybe this..... maybe that.
But National healthcare is the way to go. But only if ou care about folks.
 
Sushi....... move to Massasschussettes.... they have just made health insurance a mandatory thing. If you don't purchase health insurance, then they will penalize you at tax time. If an employer that has more than 10 full time employees doesn't offer health insurance, they will fine them. If you can't afford health insurance, then the state will provide it for you. This is the new law that Presidential hopeful retired Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney signed into law prior to leaving office.
The previous Presidential hopeful from Massachusetts, Governor Michael Dukakas, also signed into law a similar law that was going to give all residents of Massachusetts health insurance. This health insurance was going to be paid for by a tax on employee wages and the tax was paid for by the business, not the individual. The state never enacted the rest of the insurance part, so no one got the benefits....... well almost no one.... The state never removed the tax, and it is continued to be paid by employers, and all that money just goes into the general revenue of the state. Government only knows how to pick the pockets of working people and tries its best to redistribute the wealth after they take there share of the money for themselves.
Have you ever though about the fact that our representatives at the Federal level have their own retirement program, that continues to pay them their wages even after they leave office. How about the fact that they have full health insurance for the rest of their lives..... All this after serving only one 4 year term for the House of Representatives, or 6 years in the Senate. The only people that politicians really care about is themselves and their families. President Johnson prior to leaving the White House, gave himself and his family a great gift. Upon leaving, he awarded himself a whole lot of cable rights in Texas. Hell, Bill Clinton only pardoned thieves, drug dealers, and tax evaders....
 
Junkman I'll tell you (and everyone I guess) a tad about me.
My mother had MS. She was bed-ridden for the last 6 years of her life. She couldnt shut her eyes completely. She had many MAJOR bed soars. She couldnt eat because she couldnt swallow. She couldnt even cough up her own phlem. I had to use a machine to suction it out. She had a visiting nurse every day. 8 till 4. When she was well enough she attempted to kill herself twice. I dont remember her ever speaking. She died when I was 18.
My father used to slap her. I dont know why because I was too young. He loved me but mentally abused me. I took my girlfriends over and he hit on them. His line was is there is grass on the field, play ball. He had affairs with my moms nurses. I caught him getting a BJ from my GRANDMOTHER.
He is Bi-Polar. Anyhow I dont care. He drove anything good or pleasureable into the ground. He mentally abused me and atill trys too, though I dont think he really understands it all.
This turned me into a really odd kid. I was hated by most and loved by some at school. My grades were always shit. My emotional stuff was like Katrina on New Orleans.
My grandparents moved far away after their daughter died and left me all alone. Grandparents on my dads side died before I was born.
My dads side of the family always faked that they love eachother because when they met they drank sooooo much.
I have tried to make the best of things as a salesman. I hate it. But its the only way I can make enough money. It was my fathers idea to get into it. Im stuck now. I dont have money to go back to college. And if I did I dont have the time.
I get panic attacks. Im depressed. Im 36 with $300 in the bank and nothing saved. My company is from my 2 pals. Cats.
Women I meet arent worth my time. Ive had 2 DUIs so going out to meet chicks isnt an option in a FUN environment.
Well.... back to my point.... I get panic attacks. Ive been without insurance MANY MANY times. And yet once every 6 months I feel like Im having a heart attack. I call 911 and they take me the ER. $6,000 bill. Add that up over 15 years. Then add to that when I didnt have insurance. I dont pay the bills because I CANT. My credit is SHIT. So my car payment on a 03 Camry is at 19% APR. Fair????????
I forgot my point. I can write 10 TIMES what I have written about the horrible things that happened in my life.
Youre a strong man. Im not. Im very weak. I cant take stress anymore. Im VERY VERY afraid about life. I have been hit VERY hard SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many times, I can hardly breathe.
I only wish I had the moxie you have. Seriously, I would give anything for it.

Alright Sushi,

I'd like to cut you some slack here, but I just can't. I'm sorry, but I just don't feel sorry for you, and you need to knock off this bullshit about feeling sorry for yourself.

Guess what? Life is not fair today, it was not fair yesterday and it will not be fair tomorrow, so you need to learn to deal with it. Shit happens to somebody everyday and they survive. We all have stories to tell about something. These stories should be told to inspire others to rise above their problems, not to make people have sympathy for you. Allowing your thoughts to dwell in the past will only serve to keep you there.

I have a book I'd like you to read. The title is: "The Power of your Subconciuos Mind" by Joseph Murphy. It's an old book that has updated editions published over the years. You can get a copy at the library or a cheap used copy for about a buck on Amazon.com. It might just help you adjust your thinking, which is the cause of your problems, but it will take effort on your part: There is NO FREE LUNCH. Poor thinking leads to all human problems Sushi, because every action was first a thought in someone's mind.

Start thinking about life the way you want it to be and get over the past because you can't change the past. But your future is yours for the making.
 
Wait a minute sushi, I kinda felt sorry for you but an 03 Camry? I drove a 10-15 year old POS till I could afford something better. Hell I had an early 70's Datsun that I could see the highway through the floor. You really need to man up. You are a 36 year old adult male. You have panic attacks and call an ambulance? that is about an $800 taxi ride, you dont need insurance or credit, you dont deserve it. I have had panic attacks, lets see the first time I was being shot at the second time I was crashing. Both times I had to hold off on the panic attack till I handeled the situation.

Sorry sushi, I really think you must be kidding and really dont feel this sorry for your self.
 
<snip>
But National healthcare is the way to go. But only if ou care about folks.

If you care about folks, you will take care of folks yourself and not use the govt to force other folks to do it for you.

Oh, by the way...my mother had MS since I was 4. Saw her go from crutches to wheelchair to bed. Spent my youth emptying bed pans, catheters, treating bed sores, making sure she didn't choke, etc. We lived in a govt project outside Boston. Old man was a mean drunk that use to kick the crap out of us every night. Had crap jobs pumping gas, warehousing, etc since age 14ish after I forged the old mans signature on a child work permit. Lots of gang fights. Stabbed by someone stealing gas. Shot at. Use to break into houses to raid the fridge, etc, etc, etc. Just when I think I've got the biggest cross to bear, I find out the guy next to me is carrying a forest.
 
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Wait a minute sushi, I kinda felt sorry for you but an 03 Camry? I drove a 10-15 year old POS till I could afford something better. Hell I had an early 70's Datsun that I could see the highway through the floor. You really need to man up. You are a 36 year old adult male. You have panic attacks and call an ambulance? that is about an $800 taxi ride, you dont need insurance or credit, you dont deserve it. I have had panic attacks, lets see the first time I was being shot at the second time I was crashing. Both times I had to hold off on the panic attack till I handeled the situation.

Excuse me.... I need to man up???? Ive been 'manning up' my whole life. And you question me calling 911 when I have a panic attack?? I dont think you understand what a panic attack IS. Its a horrible experience I dont wish upon anyone. My heart beats extremly fast, and it beats irregular, and its very difficult to breathe.
And you said I DONT DESERVE insurance or credit? Screw you! Why dont I? Are they only for people who didnt have a hard life?
You said some pretty rude and ignorant things man. I dont get upset often but you really said some hurtful and unfair things to me.
 
Wait a minute sushi, I kinda felt sorry for you but an 03 Camry?
Because I pay $330 a month for a 2003 Camry with 95,000 miles on it, you have no sympathy for anything I said?? (not that Im looking for it, but I wanted to explain my viewpoint on the topic)
That doesnt even make SENSE!
And FYI, It had 87,000 miles on it when I bought it at Carmax a year and a half ago. I had to sell my 97 camry because everything on it was breaking. I was paying $500-600 a month in repairs.
So there ya go. Yeeeeeesh

Oh, by the way...my mother had MS since I was 4. Saw her go from crutches to wheelchair to bed. Spent my youth emptying bed pans, catheters, treating bed sores, making sure she didn't choke, etc. We lived in a govt project outside Boston. Old man was a mean drunk that use to kick the crap out of us every night. Had crap jobs pumping gas, warehousing, etc since age 14ish after I forged the old mans signature on a child work permit. Lots of gang fights. Stabbed by someone stealing gas. Shot at. Use to break into houses to raid the fridge, etc, etc, etc. Just when I think I've got the biggest cross to bear, I find out the guy next to me is carrying a forest.

Oh man. :( Im very very sorry Bob. :( We belong in a club that no one should ever be in. I dont even know what to say except you went through hell. Im very sorry. I pray things are much better in your life now.
 
Actually I still think you are just pulling our legs, and I am sorry about your mom.

perhaps I was a bit hard on you. But a panic attack has nothing to do with your heart. It is you getting worked up like a little girl. I have seen many people come in to the ER with panic attacks by ambulacne, again an $800.00 taxi ride. After getting a little attention they make an amazing recovery. I am sorry, no matter what you say a panic attack is not an emergency. I wonder if you paid the 6 grand you would be so quick to call an ambulace. The next time your six months goes by and it is time for your panic attack drive your $300.00 toyota down to the local hospital, then have your attack.

Again Sushi if you are not pulling my leg and really do feel this sorry for yourself I am sorry I went out of my way to hurt your feelings. But we cant do anything about our past life, all you have is the future. You can change it.

oh yea the point aobut the car was the datsun was about $250.00 one time payment and worth every penny. My wifes new Saturn is less than 300 a month.
 
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I have no reson to pull your leg or anyone elses especially in such a way. ANyhow, my panic attack(s) could be more than just that. Im not sure. Last one I had they kept me over night because my heart was beating irregularly. When the paramedics got to my place I was SOAKED with sweat. It was like I stepped into a shower with my clothes. They put an oxygen mask on me and rolled my ass out and to the hospital.
SO, its not being worked up like a little girl. Maybe for some. Im not sure. But when I call 911, Im not thinking about the money. Im thinking about how Im going to get the front door unlocked so they can get to me.
And Datsun/Nissans are pretty darn reliable. :)
 
OK, sorry if I was a d@#k, Im like that some times.

Now you are acting like a woos... You gave him a dose of real world medicine, only to back down. This is why he carries the past so well. He can manipulate people to feeling sorry for him. His panic attacks are real, but they are not life threatening. It is the mind playing with the body to get sympathy. As an EMT, I have see it often. Ask Bonehead, he is also a EMT. Sushi needs some good psychological help to fix his problems. He doesn't want to be the way he is, but he can't help it. You might say that his computer is mis-wired. With some long term therapy, he might be saved, but he has no insurance, so it won't happen. In the old days, they would have put him in an institution and given him treatment, but those days are gone. He needs a Nurse Ratchet to take care of him... think One Flew Over the Coco's Nest. Hang in there Sushi, help is on the way. Get a passport and then go to Russia. Stand on a street corner acting like you don't like the government, and they will help you...
 
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