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Snow cat lighting + Electrical/Alternator Question

mbsieg

mbsieg

awful member
Platinum Patron
I am wondering what other people have on their snow cat for headlights, taillights, spotlights, etc.:confused2: I will be using this cat in the dark and possibly blizzard conditions?? Any one have experience with the orange fog lights in those conditions?? Are flood lights better than spots I want your opinions?? :pat: :wave: :tiphat:
 
Re: Snow cat lighting

Well ,I have both yellow fogs and headlights on my KT7 . The yellow fogs help to define any uneven surfaces that would be hard to see with just headlights .I also will be adding a remote control searchlight that can be controlled from inside or outside the cab .Make sure you can produce enough power to run everything safely and not overload the batterey
 
Re: Snow cat lighting

I upgraded my standard headlamps with H4 Halogen upgrade kits. Here is a thread that shows how I did it, with photos.

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=2423&highlight=headlight+upgrade

I also have one inexpensive rubber armored Hella area light on each side of the Snow Trac to illuminate the side. There are 2 more of the Hella area lights mounted on the back, they should help when backing up (they are newly added) and also help when getting in/out of rear door and loading cargo. I also have 2 high quality PIAA headlights facing forward to suppliment the lighting.

During any heavy snow, lights become pretty marginal. Anything mounted high will cause snowblindness. I don't have them, but a set of low mounted lights would be the best choice for blizzard driving.

Here are a couple other threads:

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=4122&highlight=piaa

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=1541&highlight=piaa
 
Re: Snow cat lighting

For the electricians-mechanics out there 40amp alternator how many amps can you safely use?? still have a little life out of the alternator. The only other electric I use is ign, 1 small fan, windshield wiper, guages I checked it with it all running it uses 8amps, So how many amps can I use for lighting??
 
Re: Snow cat lighting

I upgraded my alternator to a 95amp unit.

To calculate the electrical capacity:
Converting Watts to Amps

The conversion of Watts to Amps is governed by the equation Amps = Watts/Volts

For example 12 watts/12 volts = 1 amp
Converting Amps to Watts

The conversion of Amps to Watts is governed by the equation Watts = Amps x Volts

For example 1 amp * 110 volts = 110 watts

Converting Watts to Volts

The conversion of Watts to Volts is governed by the equation Volts = Watts/Amps

For example 100 watts/10 amps = 10 volts

Converting Volts to Watts

The conversion of Volts to Watts is governed by the equation Watts = Amps x Volts

For example 1.5 amps * 12 volts = 18 watts​
 
Re: Snow cat lighting

Thanks for the graph what I was getting at If I use the 40amp alternator and use it at 40 amps I do not think it would last very long would it be safe to run 20amps continuous?? Or would this be to much for it also?? It is a Bosch unit.
 
Here are two pics of my 1200 LMC and its lighting arrangement with some explanations. This setup seems to work well in everyday usage. I will set up most of my cats with similar lighting arrangements.
Front Lighting.JPG
1. Headlights Hi/Lo Beam
2. Amber Safety Strobe. Must Be Visible Front, Rear And At The Sides Of The Snow Cat.
3. Low Mount Fog/Running Lamps For Low Visibility And Blizzard Conditions. These Run Very Warm And Do Not Collect Any Snow.
4. The Lights At Each Rear Corner Of The Cab Are A Combo Of Amber/Front and Red/Rear. They Work As Front Amber Running, Rear Taillights, and 4 Way Hazard Flashers. They Could Also Be Setup As Turn Signals If Required.

Rear Lighting.JPG
1. Again, At All Angles The Upper Red Tail Lamps/Hazard Flashers At The Rear Of The Cab Are Visible and Stay Free Of Snow.
2. The Rear Backup Lamp In The Center Is Mounted Low To Prevent Glare In The Windows And Mirrors When Being Used.
3. I Also Have A Lamp Strip Of 3 Red Lights Mounted Just Above The Tracks On Each Side Of The Cargo Box. They Are Secondary Taillights. As You Can See In Deep Powder Snow They Collect Snow And Are Hardly Visible. They Do Look Cool And Can Be Seen Easily At Night.

LMC Lighting.JPG
Here Is Another Great Lighting Solution I Had On A 1500 LMC. It Is A Wrecker Light Bar Made By Federal Signal. It Is Set Up With Headlights, Taillights, Hazard Flashers, Amber Warning Lights, Backup Lights and Front And Rear Work Lights All In One Light Bar. You Can Set It Up As Needed And Configure Your Lighting To Meet Your Needs As It Is A Modular System. It Is A Bit Pricey And You Will Be Mistaken For Law Enforcement....Quite Often :yum:
 
MTNTOPPER - How do you keep the tree limbs from busting everything that you have hanging off the cab and from dinging up the cab?
 
GYPSY said:
MTNTOPPER - How do you keep the tree limbs from busting everything that you have hanging off the cab and from dinging up the cab?
Click to expand...
Don't drive under low branches :hide: :yum:

Sorry, I just couldn't resist :tiphat:


mbsieg said:
Thanks for the graph what I was getting at If I use the 40amp alternator and use it at 40 amps I do not think it would last very long would it be safe to run 20amps continuous?? Or would this be to much for it also?? It is a Bosch unit.
Click to expand...
By the way, this question has been bypassed without an answer. Honestly I don't really know the answer. I'd presume that since an alternator is spinning all the time it is putting out whatever it can put on at whatever the engine speed is that is running it. But that obviously doesn't answer the question either. In my case, I got the biggest alternator I could find and know that I have extra capacity, but how much? I don't know!
 
It is easy to tell the amount of amp draw you have , disable the alt, turn on everything, and take an amp clamp around the pos cable read the meter. But what I got from the local Napa is you should not use more than 25% continuously?? That does not seem right to me but they said they recommend no more. On a 100amp unit that is only 25amps not very much. on a 40amp unit that is only 10amps. One 100 watt halogen light takes 8.3 amps not counting wire resistance. Already have 2 batts need 2 alternators?? Does this sound right to you guys??:smileywac :( :eek: :confused:
 
No one can tell you exactly how long your alt. will last, I would think a 50% continuos duty cycle would not over load your alt. what kills the alternator is heat so as long as it is not charging so hard it melts the solder in the armature you should be fine. to reduce continues load wire your light circuits on seperate switches and use the lights you need at the time you need them. the alternator is only going to be working hard at night anyway, put on the lights you want/need and keep an eye on the amp gauge.

are you running an alternator or a generator?
 
One of the potential issues that (maybe I missed and it was discussed) is that an alternator does not put out it's maximum or even optimum output when the engine is at idle speed. Have you ever noticed your lights get a bit brighter at night when you go from a slow idle to higher RPM if you have, say, your A/C going, your radio on, your interior lights on etc.? It's not that your alternator isn't working properly, it just isn't keeping up with the load at that point. Although it isn't very scientific, as a rule of thumb, your alternator isn't keeping up (and you'll end up with a dead battery) if you notice your lights get brighter when you turn something off while your engine is at operating speeds.

Older vehicles had generators and voltage regulators. Newer vehicles have alternators with voltage regulators built in. So, with the alternator keeping up, it will still be putting out it's optimum output and will not drop off of it's top voltage output when you turn on additional lights because it basically has 'reserve' output that is being limited by it's voltage regulator. Vin's link shows this by using a car stereo amp. They are telling you that when you are listening to music and your subwoofers hit (they draw the most) your lights will dim at that time because of the sudden draw that exceeds your alternator's output. But, since that huge draw is not constant, a large capacitor will handle that sudden draw and prevent your lights from dimming - and everything else experiencing a voltage drop. For car stereo, the general rule is to use 1 farad of capacitor for every 1000 watts of power. In my Jeep, with 3000 watts RMS of amp power, the lights will pretty well go out when a bass note hits if I don't have my capacitors in line.

Anyway, lighting doesn't have spike draws like stereo amps do. They have a constant draw. So, for lights, a large capacitor is useless. You need to have enough alternator power to recharge your battery, run your engine, and keep all accessory items powered. To be safe, I say you can use Bob's formula to see what power draw you need. Then I'd recommend you have an alternator that has an additional 30% or so additional capacity.
 
Just to throw something else out.

A deep-cycle battery can also provide reserve power if/when the alternator can't keep up. I don't have any numbers nearby but I think most of the half-way decent ones have a reserve of 2+ hours at a 20 amp draw.
 
bczoom said:
Just to throw something else out.

A deep-cycle battery can also provide reserve power if/when the alternator can't keep up. I don't have any numbers nearby but I think most of the half-way decent ones have a reserve of 2+ hours at a 20 amp draw.
Click to expand...
And just to throw something else on top of what Brian just wrote, you may want to consider adding a second battery.

I just installed a Dual Battery switch, the type used on yachts. It is a 4 way selector switch, capable of handling almost 1000? amps, that allows me to choose battery #1, battery #2, both batteries or to disconnect both. :cool2: Given where I run my Snow Trac, having a second battery is probably not necessary, but I sort of think that it is like having a belt & suspenders on your pants. You may not need both, but just in case you have a clothing malfunction its nice to have a back-up! ;)

Now all I need to do is buy the second battery and wire that to the switch.:hide:
 

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Some of my opinions on this subject...

Amp meter vs. voltmeter. I prefer a voltmeter to monitor battery and charge condition. If you are drawing more than the alt puts out a voltmeter will show the charge of the battery dropping. An ameter will show the fact that is working properly, but not the fact that you're drawing more than the alt is capable of putting out.

Battery swithes. for a multiple batt. setup, consider a relay rated for continious duty. they arent expensive and can be wired as needed to work automatically or manually.

Lights. I like the cheapo rubber housing "tractor lights" for backup and load lights. 100w halogens mounted at about the hoodline in front for headlights, as far as $, buy the best your budget allows. "pencil beams are good when its snowing cause the will put the light out past the snow right in front of you, but a wider pattern is better when conditions are clear.

Eric

:myopinion:​
 
I don't really deal much with DC stuff, but it would seem to me that anything with a "rated output" would be good for that amount of amperage. Of course that would be for ideal situations such as rated RPM, good connections......etc. Now if it said "peak output", to me that would mean it'll do it occasionally, but not all the time.
So when I read anything about a 40A alternator, I would expect it would put out 40A on a steady basis.
 
Haven't read the whole thread, but if the alternator is marked 40 amps, that is the maximum amount of amps it can put out at a specific RPM. There are basically two types of alternators / generators for automobiles. One is the standard type and the other is the Low Cut In (LCI), which means that it will put out the maximum amount of amperage at a low RPM. Those are usually installed in vehicles that are driven at low speeds primarily, such as taxis. They also use them in fire trucks where they are stationary for long periods of time, running with a higher than normal idle. With the advent of the newest generation alternators that can put out some huge amount of amps, I don't believe that the LCI generators are in production any longer.
 
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