MONTANA Tractors: Mini Review

[Melensdad]

MONTANA Tractors: Mini Review - CRAP!

We have a new Montana Tractor dealer that I pass every day on my way to work. The dealer is a small engine repair shop that sells lawn mowers, weed wackers, and does repairs on all brands. Been around for a few years, reputation for good work, but at the same time being hard to get along with. To my knowledge they have no experience in diesel repairs or the sale of new diesel tractors. I've had some dealings with this shop, all have been 'satisfactory.'

However, it is one of the last places I would go to for a diesel tractor. Apparently I am not the only one who feels that way because the very same 5 tractors have been on his lot for roughly 3 months, sales to date = ZERO. So I guess you tell tell already that my review may be a bit biased?


Below you can see some of the tractors in my photos (camera phone pictures, shut up and be happy I took any pictures!).

You will notice in the photos that the tractors do not all look the same. Montana must use 2 or 3 different manufacturers to build their tractors? (I thought all the Montana tractors were built by LG of Korea, perhaps all are, but they use different assembly lines or different factories for some models?) They have 3 separate and distinct looks/designs to them. Seems very odd. But that is just being nit-picky on my part. Also notice the ROPS designs, on the far right the ROPS does not fold, the next two fold in the traditional manner, the next has a hoop style ROPS that does not fold.

 

[Melensdad]

This is their 27hp model. It is obviously a 'budget' model. The fit and finish are OK, but the dash and operators platform are very basic, the plastic looks pretty cheap (think YUGO dashboard). The controls are actually difficult to reach (more on this later in the thread). The floor panel is not rubber coated so the rocks on your shoes will scratch and rust the floor panels. Overall, this is nothing more than a basic machine. It is also very large for a 27hp tractor. I suppose that is good if you are skidding logs?

In the first post, this tractor is the photo on the FAR RIGHT side of the pictures.

 

[Melensdad]

This is their HST model machine. It actually was not too bad. It comes with a rear work light and dual rear hydraulic remotes. Ergonomics on this machine are marginal to pretty darn bad.

The rear remote controls were positioned UNDER my right leg so I had to move my leg to effect the rear remotes The 3pt controls were on the right side of the seat, they had such long throw levers that you literally had to bend down to get them into the fully down position

This is considered one of their deluxe machines? For a large tractor you would expect a FLAT floor in the operators compartment. Again, no rubber floor mats. The fuel tank is behind the driver's seat, the SMV triangle has to be REMOVED to refuel the tractor

In the first photos, this tractor is the second from the far right.

 

[Melensdad]

OK now here I hit one of my major pet peeves! When a loader is installed, these tractors become ONE SIDE entry/exit machines. You can see my hand in one of the photos, my hand measures roughly 8" across, which illustrates that there is no room to exit from the right of the tractor.

Further the hoses are a mess and dangle everywhere. Granted hoses are cheaper to run for hydraulics than rigid pipe, but pipe is much better, never fails, is cleaner to run, are rarely presents a snag point. And look how loosly the hoses run and how they are not held tight to the loader. Not only do I think this is sloppy, it is just waiting to be snagged by a branch when working in the woods.

The loader control valve is also set in an awkward place. Most loader controls that I have used, whether fender mounted or loader mounted, have the end of the loader control stalk/lever roughly in line and to the right side of the center hub of the steering wheel. This one was well behind the center of the steering wheel, in fact it was in line with an imaginary line that would run from the bottom plane of the steering wheel. It seemed too far back to me. Granted I was not able to use this, but just sitting in the seat, it seemed to be in the wrong place. Again, that is just my opinionated view. You can see how far behind the center of the steering column the loader is located in the first picture. In that picture also look at the placement of the throttle control. With the throttle pulled back, I'd bet it could come into contact with someone who had the drivers seat pulled forward!

Don't even get me started on how high up they mount the loader and how the curved arms, while theoretically providing more visibility, do not offer any real advantage here because they start out so high that the vertical uprights block your view. They tried to copy the Case/New Holland loader design, they just didn't make a good copy of it.

 

[Melensdad]

The buckets on these VERY HEAVY tractors are too lightly built. The top lip of the bucket was simply folded down and had no reinforcement at all. My little 24hp New Holland bucket is built like a tank compared to this bucket. In fact my Kubota B2910 bucket is very similar in design to these buckets . . . but that is an ultra-light tractor, and these are built and promoted as heavy duty machines while the B2910 is built and sold as an ultralight.

I would not trust these buckets with welded on bucket hooks. I believe the top lip would simply bend/crumple under load.

Their QA system for attachment was standard, well designed, but crudely fabricated. It will work and provide good service.

 

[Melensdad]

For someone who wants a cheap tractor, these fit the bill. They are not even close to the quality standards of the Deers, Kubotas, Case Farmalls, New Hollands or even the Massy Ferguson machines IMHO. NOT EVEN CLOSE to the ergonomics of any of the 1st tier brands, in fact the ergonomics of these machines reminds me a lot of the old Olivers and other antiques I've played with. IMO they are about 10 years behind the major brands in terms of design.

But they are cheap.

 

[buckle97]

The hood on the tractor on the far right looks extremely similar to the hood on my Crapsman lawn tractor . I agree that the FEL joystick placement is horrible. I was expecting it to be bad when I read your description, but when I actually saw the picture I couldn't believe my eyes. The joystick mount and hoses look just thrown on there, they don't look like they belong there.

 

[Spiffy1]

Re: MONTANA Tractors: Mini Review -CRAP

For a camera phone thats pretty nice photography!

I'd never really looked close at one before, but after seeing your pictures I do find humor in the operator area. Actually, even before reading anything you wrote, my first impression was, all those styles and they're all "ugly." Now seeing how I have a gangly red creature, perhaps it's the pot calling the kettle black, but I have them undesirably stuck in my head now about like some of those photos that sneak into the MLR.

Pretty good review - even if a little biased!

 

[bczoom]

Re: MONTANA Tractors: Mini Review -CRAP

Pretty good review - even if a little biased!

I wouldn't say that comparing them to the other mfgrs out there is biased.

 

[Melensdad]

Re: MONTANA Tractors: Mini Review -CRAP

Hell I'd admit the bias. I went in with both eyes open. I saw. I did not like. Now if I was not a modestly experienced tractor operator, then all the things I pointed out probalby would not be issues. But once you are used to operating a well designed piece of equipment you hold everything else to the same standard. These tractors are not up to those standards!!!

Spiffy, as for the red tractors, my observations of the Mahindra machines is they are better designed than these Montanas. Montana gives you a lot of stuff for your money, the dual remotes are generally an expensive option, but then they make it hard for you to work them! Honestly, I am biased to the Big 3 + Massey Ferguson, but that is because they have earned my respect based on their designs. Me, I don't want to drive crap, no matter how cheap it is.

The Montana's remind me a lot of the Jinma tractors. Big, heavy, crude.

But these are just my opinions! Anyone who disagrees it probably wrong, or blind?

 

[Spiffy1]

Actually, I was thinking of my PT 2445; to anyone not interested in articulation, I'm sure it looks about like a dragon or something.

Of course, since I can still get around pretty well with the old "H" [no PS, no live PTO, no sync gears.....] too (actually that would be red and gangly also!), I'm a poor judge of ergonomics; however, when cheap quality is that easy to spot I can't imagine longevity!

I did climb on a DX25 a couple days ago. Rather small for around here, so I barely gave it a once-over, but seemed to have nice feel and very clean look.

 

[Dargo]

The only issue I see is when you make (correct) notations of some of these tractors being almost exactly like a JD or NH from the mid to early 80's, you get a bunch of people really upset. Perhaps not here, but at another place you would have 40 pages of people attacking you for your opinion. You are not allowed to have one of those!

I owned numerous new tractors from the big 3 during the 80's. I actually liked the tractors considerably. However, I was relatively new to tractors then. I would have made statements such as "man, this thing is much stronger than I thought", and "after 40 hours this thing is still performing like new". I'd also have thrown in comments like "look at the beef in this tractor, it's a beast". Seriously, those were the comments I'd made twenty something years ago about the big 3 tractors. Do those comments sound like some you have heard thousands of times about another particular brand of tractor on another board?

The real issue, is that for the most part, these tractors are no bargain. They come in only slightly less than what you can buy a first rate tractor for and their build and design is over 2 decades old! Also, no matter how you slice it and how much the morons on KBN try to spin it, even if it is fair or not, you will take a beating when you go to sell one. I chalk it up to simple ignorance, but most of those guys do not believe me when I tell them that I've made money on selling and trading several new big three tractors! This crap that they all take the same depreciation curve is simply put; bullshit. Perhaps things will change for some of the non-big three tractors that are making serious gains in market share and quality, but most of them will remain at the bottom of the fish bowl.

As Bob knows, a bit over a year ago I seriously considered a Kioti DK65S because I was hearing so much of the propaganda at the other site. I'd bet I spent 30 hours studying the specs, going over the tractor, driving the tractor, and checking out every little detail of the tractor. The bottom line was that it simply was not up to the standards of what I am used to with a big three tractor; period. Even so, I would have still considered it if it were "thousands and thousands" less like KBN would have you believe. The fact was that it was actually more money than what I paid for a big three model. Again, it is only my opinion, but I maybe would have bought the DK65S if it were about 10k less money.

A good honest friend of mine had a Mahindra dealership for a short while before he got it yanked (another dealer was 98 miles away, and had a 100 mile exclusive). To me, the tractor more closely matched the quality I expected and the price was right at the point where I was getting seriously nervous about the deal. He slaughtered the price I was quoted at several places on a DK65 and I honestly liked the Mahindra better. Again, my opinion. I have a feeling that if he had not had his franchise yanked, I would own a Mahindra 7010 Cab tractor with the ML170 loader. I was impressed with that particular tractor and the price he quoted me was tempting.

Oh well, who knows. I still think that all of these roadside yard barn tractor dealers will dry up as will most of the brands sold there.

 

[Dargo]

Heeer ya go Bob!! Super Duper Montana deal

You too can be a proud owner of a used 2004 Montana tractor for the bargain price of only $25,500!

Hurry, you'd better beat the rush to jump on that used unit for that price!!

 

[messickfarmequ]

Price is my biggest issue with these minor tractor lines. They products should be alot cheaper than one of the major lines but they are not. There is room in the market for a value tractor, but it does not seem that any of these companies can really pull it off. We've been approached by just about every one of the lines about carrying their product, we have chosen not to based largly on their support network - but also because they are not offering more value than the existing players.

 

[Melensdad]

Heeer ya go Bob!! Super Duper Montana deal

You too can be a proud owner of a used 2004 Montana tractor for the bargain price of only $25,500!

Hurry, you'd better beat the rush to jump on that used unit for that price!!

Dargo, that tractor never sold. But it has been re-listed. Did I tell you I drove past my local Montana dealer yesterday?

Price is my biggest issue with these minor tractor lines. They products should be alot cheaper. . . There is room in the market for a value tractor, but it does not seem that any of these companies can really pull it off.

Neil, I'm guessing a lot of people don't see the value in the tractors.

I drove past the Montana dealer yesterday. I had noticed over the past several months that the Montana tractors were parked in the same spot on the lot every day for the past 4 or 5 months. Yesterday I thought something was different? Had he sold one? Nope. The dealer parked an 80's vintage limo out front with a for sale sign on it. The old limo was blocking my view of the tractors.

But to date, not one fo the Montanas has been sold off this dealer's lot. Perhaps he has sold some to people who ordered other models? Perhaps he has sold none since he picked up the product line?

Can you be a tractor dealer if you don't actually sell any tractors?

 

[Grooming Snow]

Ok looked at all the pictures & gave J--'s lawnmower service a call And from what I can tell they are his display models and if you want one you take one's in the box and do the set up. That is why the same one's are out there

 

[Melensdad]

Well SOMETHING is happening at my local Montana tractor dealer. 2 of the tractors are now missing. The other tractors are still parked in the same places they have been sitting for a few months.

These tractors have been sitting on the dealerships parking lot since March, it is now August, so after 1/2 of a year passed, this dealership either sold 2 tractors at the same time, or they returned 2 tractors? I'm almost tempted to stop in to inquire about them again.

How long would a dealership want to continue to sell a brand if it only sells 2 tractors in 6 months? (and that is assuming they actually sold them instead of returning them). I've read on other websites that these tractors are selling fast and the quality is really good too. I don't doubt the tractors will do the job, but I sure don't see the fast sales in this area.

EDIT: I did find it interesting that on another website a Montana dealer suggested that it makes sense to buy a South Korean built Montana tractor over a Japanese built tractor because the North Koreans are threatening to NUKE that nation of Japan and so it might make parts for Japanese tractors hard to get in the future. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85074

 

[thcri]

Bob,

It even could be that another dealer or dealers picked them up. They may have a database and another dealer needed one. So your neighborhood dealer may not have sold any. Or the bank is coming to get one or so at a time as the floor is coming due?


murph

 

[Melensdad]

Well it turns out that BOTH of the missing tractors are back. They went out on "test" to potential customers. Hmmm. Guess the test didn't go to well?

 

[buckle97]

They went out on "test" to potential customers.

How did you acquire this knowledge? Did you actually stop in and talk to the dealer? Did you find out any other tidbits about him? For instance, is he going to be closing up shop if he doesn't sell at least one tractor by the end of the month?

 

[Melensdad]

Yup, he is on my way to work. I stopped off to chat because he is mainly a small engine and lawnmower shop. I've had him work on several of my small engine items both for the house and for the office. He knows me on sight but I didn't tell him why I was inquiring.

 

[buckle97]

He knows me on sight but I didn't tell him why I was inquiring.

I wonder how big of a financial risk it was for him to stick his neck out on this brand? He has had this inventory for almost six months with no income from it. Do you think he is having to pay Montana anything just to have the franchise? It seems like he may only have to pay Montana a royalty when he actually sells a tractor. It will be interesting to hear what he does at the end of the year if he still hasn't made a single sale.

 

[Melensdad]

I probably should also point out I'm dropping off our company generator this afternoon at his shop for some work before winter hits. We run a 5000watt Coleman generator as a computer back up generator when we lose power and run it through UPS systems.

As to the financial risk, I don't know him well enough to ask something like that. What I do know is he had no implements visible in his showroom or on his lot. (maybe in the back???).

 

[Dargo]

I probably should also point out I'm dropping off our company generator this afternoon at his shop for some work before winter hits. We run a 5000watt Coleman generator as a computer back up generator when we lose power and run it through UPS systems.

And buying two Montana tractors...

 

[Melensdad]

Just thought I would update this thread.

We no longer have a local Montana dealer. I did not stop in to ask why the tractors are gone, but all of them are gone and have not been replaced. He apparently sold the cab tractor about 4 months ago but the remainder of the tractors still sat on the lot. Then one day all of them were gone. Its been 6(?) weeks and no more Montanas. Not too bad, near as I can tell he had the tractors for over a year and it looks like he sold 1 of them?

 

[thcri]

Bob,

Did this guy only sell Montana or other brands as well? You would think if he was a pretty good dealer with a good reputation he would have sold more than just the one? And I wonder what the guy that bought the one is thinking right now about parts etc?

murph

 

[Melensdad]

He carries a lot of lawn and garden equipmen (mowers, ZTRs, chippers, chain saws, etc), he does a big business in small engine repair and will work on any brand of lawn/garden equipment. But the only brand of compact tractors he sold was the Montana brand, and never had any display of implements or other things to go with the tractors.

 

[buckle97]

We no longer have a local Montana dealer.

Well Bob, it appears that a guy not far from me bought the inventory from your now defunct dealer. I pass this Mobile Home dealership (is that what they are called?) on the way to/from work everyday. All of a sudden a banner went up on the fence separating the interstate and the trailer place and a few tractors showed up. They even used one of the brand new tractors to bush hog the field so passers by could see the tractors . You can see from the pictures that I was there at a slow time (I drive the blue Accord). None of the trailers they had were equipped with brakes. I guess if you wanted to buy the cab tractor and a trailer you would have a pretty wild ride home . Also notice their incredible selection of implements . The close up picture is of the label all the implements had on them. Has anyone heard of this company?

 

[Dargo]

Oh well, who knows. I still think that all of these roadside yard barn tractor dealers will dry up as will most of the brands sold there.

I know this is an old thread, but in the last week, I did notice that my local, well...sort of local, Branson dealer no longer carries Branson. They are just gone. And, if the Montana tractors are the ones that look like JD tractors but have silver wheels, that roadside dealer that operated out of a yard barn is also gone. They now carry Bad Boy Mowers I see. I'd been under the impression that Bad Boy Mowers were similar to Dixie Choppers and, therefore, pretty decent quality. However, with the dealership now selling them (the one that dropped Montana - I think it was Montana - I have to wonder a bit about Bad Boy Mowers. I won't go by there for a few weeks, but the "Bad Boy Mowers" is spelled out by using paper cups in a chain link fence...not exactly impressive.

*edit*

And, buckle, that roadside dealer did have three tractors in stock as well as a trailer like you pictured. One of the three Montana tractors was a cab model like the one in your picture. I wonder if his "dealership" didn't come from just north of Vincennes Indiana... He did have a few Lienbach implements scattered around on the ground that also were not seen when I last drove past. The implements on the ground there look like Lienbach ones. To their credit, for the money, Lienbach implements seem to function and last as I expect. They are rather inexpensive and were sold to me under the pretense that they would work for homeowner use, but not for everyday commercial use. After using a gill/pulverizer and post hole digger I bought that were made by Lienbach, that is exactly how I'd describe them.

 

[buckle97]

I wonder if his "dealership" didn't come from just north of Vincennes Indiana...

Judging by your use of the quotes, it appears you have just as much trouble calling these places dealerships as I do. I was telling a guy at work about the Montana place and I kept hesitating calling it a tractor "dealership." It seems to me if you don't have a shop to service what you sell, let alone a trailer big enough to deliver what you sell, you can't be labeled a "dealership."