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Kioti CK30 resale value?

Brian, using your original calculation, but substituting my 20% depreciation for the Mahindra, pegged the "value" of that tractor at $11, 038. It sold for $11,000. I'd say your formula is pretty darn good . . . it is based on the assumption that the tractor's original selling price was about $14,500.

We will see more with the Kioti, but I have a much better grip on Kioti prices. In fact, a darn good price on a CK30 gear, FEL is going to be right at $15,000. It would not surprise me if the original price was a as high as $16,000. So we have a very good handle on the price range. With the unit on Ebay, we also know it to be a low hour machine, and only 1 year old.

I suggest we stick with your formula but use the 20% depreciation again and see if it sells. Using your formula, my 20% depreciation, and a presumed $15,000 starting price, the "value" of that CK is going to be about $12,810. The starting bid price is $13,000. That is not a 'bad' deal, but not a good one based on the formula.

Again, we are talking about minor-brand tractors with the 20% depreciation figure. I'd like to run the same numbers on some 1 to 3 year old Big-3 brands. Perhaps taking my TC out of the running since mine actually went up in value. Then again, if mine went up in value so did everyone else's who bought that model, so leaving mine in the mix would be valid. We'd just need a large sample to test the validity. And we'd also want to get numbers from Dargo. If I recall correctly he traded/sold 3 of his Big-3 tractors for at and above his original purchase prices and he kept those machines for 1 to 3 years. Thinking about it, maybe your formula is not valid for Big-3 brands under 4 years old???
 
If you want to kick around the other Orange machine, use the BX series of Kubota. There certainly seem to be a lot of them on the used market. Granted that they are now into the third generation of the machine in 5 years, so that might also have some effect on price. Neil can supply you with new price figures.... I assume... :tiphat:
 
Junkman said:
If you want to kick around the other Orange machine, use the BX series of Kubota.
Click to expand...
I was thinking of doing that as well as green.
Using the completed items on e-bay and plugging in some numbers.
But... I don't have new pricing (nor the time to do it right now).
 
Viking said:
Looks like the guy got a pretty good tractor for 11k. Just 100 hrs on it.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. I think it would be the better deal of the two that are listed on eBay. My opinion does line up with Bob's "adjusted for minor brand" values, on Brian's formula for these two examples. Also, with the national exposure and number of people looking at the auctions, I think it would be foolish to not think of eBay's closed auctions for a value guide. Where else are you going to have so many people looking at your tractor? There are likely more eyes seeing a tractor there in 7 days than may see a small dealer's tractor in a year.
 
I have been hesitant to reply but after looking on e-Bay, I'll chime in.

I don't know what a CK30 with SS retails for but a friend just bought a new one with FEL for $13,600 so chances are the e-Bay listing ain't gonna fly.

Now let's keep an eye on this one comparable just no FEL and it's blue.....
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Holland-TC29D-Compact-Tractor-No-Reserve_W0QQitemZ7565304216QQcategoryZ91953QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

How about orange...........
http://cgi.ebay.com/L3300-Kubota-4x4-compact-tractor_W0QQitemZ7568124941QQcategoryZ91953QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Is this for real, no reserve? It's green...........
http://cgi.ebay.com/John-Deere-Compact-Tractor-Model-3120-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ7565288338QQcategoryZ91953QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
or this

http://cgi.ebay.com/2005-John-Deere-4120-Compact-Tractor-4x4-with-400X-LDR_W0QQitemZ6017948482QQcategoryZ19069QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

BTW...........there appears to be a bunch of nice orange and green tractors for $5000 or less........... :)
 
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Big Dog said:
BTW...........there appears to be a bunch of nice orange and green tractors for $5000 or less........... :)
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Yeah, I know they're hoaxes
 
Greg, just for reference, I only look at newer tractors. Those aged 1 to 4 years old. I also only look at tractors with an FEL. I also look at tractors that do not have implements, or if an implement is included, I only look the ones that I know the value of. The problem with all of this is that we really have to find some way to come up with an objective sample.

So my criteria (and I have been watching this stuff for about a year on eBay) is simple.
-- Tractors sell faster/easier with an FEL and most CUTs have FELs and most buyers want FELs so I limit my observations to those tractors only.
-- I only look at newer tractors (model year 2001 or newer) because I have a reasonable grasp on those prices and because new prices are posted on TBN on a regular basis.
-- I only look at compact tractors (not sub compacts) in the HP ranges of 20 to 45 horsepower because those are the tractors I know the most about.

If we all want to get serious about this, then we need to pick ONE or TWO types of machines, set our criteria, and then apply it. I chose the Mahindra because it fell into the category of the machines I am familiar with, and there were two on auction at the same time, and they were equiped the same way. There is another Mahindra on auction now, fits my HP criteria, but doesn't include a loader, consequently I didn't include it. Ditto the CK30. Its an easy to find unit on TBN, price is easy to come by over there. You friend got a heck of a deal at less than $14,000 because someone just paid $14,000 for a CK25/gear with FEL and was told he got a good price. CK30s go for about $900 to $1300 more than CK25s.
 
Big Dog said:
Yeah, I know they're hoaxes
Click to expand...

Damn! I was wanting to buy that last JD tractor; again. Those exact same frickin' pictures were used in scam auctions several months ago. Yeah baby, that's good ole eBay looking out for their buyers! :rofl1: I really think that eBay doesn't give a rat's ass about scams on their site. As long as they are paid for their auctions, they're happy. :moon:
 
My primary reason to reply was the ck30, it just isn't going to go at the price he's asking and if it does GREAT for him! Now as far as the FEL goes, I sort of don't understand because your requirement obviously places more value on the FEL (or if you want tractor) than it was at original purchase. The resale value of the tractor is being manipulated by the FEL. Let's set some guidelines and do both! It would be interesting find. We all know the value of the FEL but alot of tractors in your catagory do not have them. I know I'm cutting fine lines but an FEL DOES make a difference in the value of the tractor.
 
Big Dog said:
My primary reason to reply was the ck30, it just isn't going to go at the price he's asking and if it does GREAT for him! Now as far as the FEL goes, I sort of don't understand because your requirement obviously places more value on the FEL (or if you want tractor) than it was at original purchase. The resale value of the tractor is being manipulated by the FEL. Let's set some guidelines and do both! It would be interesting find. We all know the value of the FEL but alot of tractors in your catagory do not have them. I know I'm cutting fine lines but an FEL DOES make a difference in the value of the tractor.
Click to expand...


Greg, the problem with all of this (your criteria & mine) is that it is hard for us to get totally accurate information. A dealer would have it, you and I don't. You are correct that the FEL does alter the price/value of the tractor, but as MOST of the CUTs are sold with FELs and as MOST buyers want a tractor with an FEL, and as there is absolutely no way for me to calculate the differnetial between 2 tractors that are identical except for the FEL/no FEL then I have to be practical. So that is why I came up with my criteria. The biggest problem is the "sample size" and with any survey, the statistical sample must be random but also must be able to accurately reflect the nation. And the other big problem is that only real place I can find used tractor data is eBay and that may not accurately reflect, in a scientific sense, the true value. In fact it seems to inflate values. But it is what we have.

So to do what you ask would take a very long time.

To limit the criteria to a sample of tractors that are all very similar would likely still take a few months, but would be interesting now that we have some rational mathmatic forumula that we can apply to see if it fits, or can be made to fit by altering Brian's numbers.

If you want to do this, I'd suggest we pick something like this: 30hp, FEL, HST, model years: 2003, 2004, and 2005 No mechanical damage. No cosmetic damage other than normal wear & tear. Eliminate any machine that has more than an average of 150 hours per year.

Then we take that criteria and we look at every tractor for sale that fits that narrow band of criteria from every common brand. (JD, Kubota, NH, Case, M-F, Kioti, Mahindra, Cub Cadet) We would probably need several examples of each brand to come to any reasonable conclusion.
 
Junkman said:
If you want to kick around the other Orange machine, use the BX series of Kubota. There certainly seem to be a lot of them on the used market. Granted that they are now into the third generation of the machine in 5 years, so that might also have some effect on price. Neil can supply you with new price figures.... I assume... :tiphat:
Click to expand...

Any used BX package will sell for $1500-2000 less than new. Age, hours, etc don't seem to matter too much. While they may look readily available we have not had more than 3-4 (just about 1% of the units we sold).

Some of the factory guys I have been talking to suspect that in a few years the number of used compacts will start to increase substantialy. Their concern is that it will stall the sales of new machines and force them to compete with their own equipment thats now on the used market. As of now, there is so little supply of used machines that the pricing is high and they don't have to worry about it.
 
JayC, I think there is some 'haggle room' in the price on a used CK20 that has an asking price of USD$14,800!!! Then again, it is located in Canada and pricing is very regional.

Perhaps we should add one more bit of criteria to my qualifications. The tractor for sale must be located in the Mainland USA?


As for your question about CASE and if that is a Big-3 brand or not. I honestly don't know. Farmall is a very recognized brand. I have been told (but don't know for fact) that there are more Case/Farmall dealers than New Holland dealers. But in my area, Case/Farmall CUTs are essentially non-existant while Case AG tractors are fairly common. The same thing applies to Massey Ferguson. Don't see their CUTs around here at all but see big equipment all the time.
 
There are certainly more Case dealers in this area than New Holland. But I see more New Holland machines than Case or John Deere. I'm guessing the Deeres are hiding or something. :StickOutT The nearest Case dealer usually has a few CUTs on the lot. They sit there for long amounts of time. The Deere dealer, on the other hand, is always moving their CUT inventories. Sometimes, I wonder if the Case dealer ever does any business. Their new inventory never seems to move (maybe an ag unit now and then). They have a large used machine lot. That always seems to have changing inventory.

There is a Massey dealer about 7 miles from here. The county has a Massey that they cut the grass on the sides of the road with and fill the trucks with salt in the winter. A friend has one, but other than that I have never seen any. About 15 miles there is the aforementioned John Deere dealer and the Case/Cub Cadet dealer. I might catch a glimpse of a Deere CUT now and then, but not as much as the New Hollands I see. Deere, are everywhere when it comes to ag, though, with Case close behind. About 30 miles is another John Deere dealer, another Case/Cub Cadet dealer (same owenrship), a Case/New Holland dealer, Cub Cadet dealer, and a Kubota dealer.
 
B_Skurka said:
JayC, I think there is some 'haggle room' in the price on a used CK20 that has an asking price of USD$14,800!!!
Click to expand...

I'd venture to bet that he'll have it around for his great-grandchildren at that price! I'd have to assume that he is trying to make about a $6000 gross on that unit! :rofl1:
 
B_Skurka said:
...at least the Big 3 tractor brands seem to hold onto their original value (or at least 90% of it) over the course of the first 2 or even 3 years.
Seems odd. ALL car brands drop in value. SOME tractor brands drop in value.
Click to expand...


Bob,
Maybe those tractor brands ought to be making cars too. There's a much better market for cars. That would be alright with me, especially if they also had extreme reliability.
:fart2:
 
Viking said:
The Kioti was a no sale...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7566093912&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

That should stir some shit over on KBN...Kioti resale really does suck...you really take a pounding unless you truly plan to keep the orange imposter for a very long time.
Click to expand...

From a guy with a Cub Cadet (who btw has chosen Kioti for their 8000 series), jeez give it a break Viking! Can't you find it in your heart to cut some slack. You slam Kioti at any oppurtunity!

Sorry ya'll this post just rubbed me the wrong way! Especially with what I posted earlier......:(
 
My problem is not with Kioti tractors really. It's with those morons in the Kioti forum on KBN. Kioti tractors do have a serious resale value problem however and they are overrated in my opinion. They are not in the same league of a Kubota, John Deere or New Holland. Kioti is a decent 2nd tier tractor. Given the opportunity I will slam Kioti whenever I can just to piss off those KBN crazies.

Yes, I do have a Cub Cadet that was manufactured in the US with a Japanese Diesel engine. It's been a pretty good tractor that has done what I have needed it to do. I have no illusions of inflated resale values nor do I claim that it is the best tractor known to man. I know a JD 2210,or a Kubota BX2230 will hold their value better but I bought the Cub 5234D for several thousands less than the JD and Kubota equivalents.

There is not a cult like, fanatical following as the Kioti seems to have and the Cub forum on KBN is not populated by idiots. I like and am aware that the 8000 series are rebadged Kioti's (nothing new to me) and if I needed a large tractor I would consider buying one, not so much because they are Kioti's but because my Cub dealer is fantastic and I know he and MTD would stand behind the tractor. They have done a great job for me on a couple of problems I have had with my 5234D so I trust them.

Sorry to piss on your Wheaties there Big Dog!
 
Big Dog said:
Sorry ya'll this post just rubbed me the wrong way! Especially with what I posted earlier......:(
Click to expand...

Okay, in case you haven't figured it out, I'm guilty. However, I gotta admit that the usual suspects at the other place just rubbed me the wrong way a few hundred times. So, I sort of know how you feel. I'll also admit that a big part for me is just having fun. To be fair, I guess I'm due a little payback. Feel free to go ahead and lay it on me for buying my wife a Honda Civic. Yeah, I could have bought her pretty well whatever, but it was a Civic. :o But, hey, it's what she said she wanted. Really!!
 
I apologize again for airing my thoughts. I owned a Kubota for 8 years and at the time I bought it, it wasn't a Deere, Massey or New Holland. It was in the shop once because I thought my maintenance skills needed to be checked, not because there was anything wrong with it other than a broken tail light that I destroyed. I indeed know their quality.

I plan on having my Kioti for at least that long so resale wasn't really an issue to me but quality and price was an issue. I have heard no more problems reported about Kioti as to the other brands and yes I did consider the ratio in numbers. I don't own Cadillac but I do Chevy, I don't own Kriegoff but I do Beretta and I own Harley, Honda and Kawasaki. I think you know where I'm going.

The reminders of the azzwholes from TBN for souring grapes should be put to rest! :soapbox: , I now step down..........:o
 
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Dargo said:
Okay, in case you haven't figured it out, I'm guilty. However, I gotta admit that the usual suspects at the other place just rubbed me the wrong way a few hundred times. So, I sort of know how you feel. I'll also admit that a big part for me is just having fun. To be fair, I guess I'm due a little payback. Feel free to go ahead and lay it on me for buying my wife a Honda Civic. Yeah, I could have bought her pretty well whatever, but it was a Civic. :o But, hey, it's what she said she wanted. Really!!
Click to expand...

Damn, wish I would have read this before my last post............:rofl1:
 
From our earlier discussion, these I believe are watchers. Bob let me know if they meet qualifications.

Buy it now...........

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7729306554&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

No bites yet.........

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7568307889&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

Active bidding..........

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7568523418&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

This Deere is a little older but it holds my interest, active bidding.........

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7569334130&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
 
Greg, I'd say the Kubota and the first of the two JD's would meet the criteria, the older JD is the correct configuration, but already 5 years old. I would suggest we limit our comparision to 2003 and newer.

For a good study we should also pick 1 hp to compare, 30 seems like the most popular? But as of now we have 2 at 30hp (Kioti & Kubota) and 2 at 35 (Mahindra & Deere).

As for the New Holland, I am not sure how accurate the New Holland auction is. In 2004 the tractor should have been a TC29DA, not a "D" and the 7308 loader should have been on a 2002 and maybe a 2003 model year, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be on a 2004 (although I may be wrong). Also the TC includes a mower deck, I would exclude it for that fact alone. But I still quesiton the other stuff.
 
Digging around a bit, I guess the TC29 was available with either loader for a while, which could certainly explain the old style loader. The price does seem exceptional at under $14K.
 
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