Intake & exhaust mods

[johnday]

I hadn't noticed this forum was here till the other day.
I've a wonderment to run past you guys. Most of you know I run a Stroker thats been turned up a little. What I'm thinking about is modifying my intake with a much larger filter. This thing is usually used on heavy equipment. What you do is replace the whole filter box with a filter that resembles the aftermarket K&N setup. The thing is huge although I've only seen pictures. It's a NAPA item, 6637, and just clamps to the rubber intake going to the turbo.
Also, I was considering running a straight pipe. Thought again about that,and think I'll go with a 4" turbo back system, with what looks like a minimal muffler.
I'm just wanting to increase mileage, since I already have plenty of guts for towing the TC and 12K flatbed.
What thinkest thou guys. I can do this all for less than $500.

 

[Doc]

Sounds like you have a real powerhouse. What your considering sounds more like it would increase HP, maybe a tad better milage, but I wouldn't expect much.
What do you get now with your current set up?

I have a 7.3 IDI. I get around 15 with it. Towing or not. But all I tow is my 6k boat.

 

[TOMLESCOEQUIP]

On my 04.5 dodge, I went with the airaid cone style filter & took off the stock muffler & went with a regular donaldsen medium duty semi style muffler. My truck came with 4" exhaust already, but the stock "quiet" muffler only flowed something like 415 cfm. The donaldsen with the straight thru design flows 1600 cfm. (only a slight difference there !). I was afraid to go the straight pipe route because I've heard you get an awful drone at highway crusing speeds that will drive you nuts on long trips. I think the muffler was about $65 from youngstown kenworth wholesale. The airaid was $225 from everythingoffroad.com "oh yeah"...........somewhere along the line my cat. converter (dodge started using then in '04) may have fallen off or got lost........have'nt seen it in awhile. The intake & exh. got me about 1.5 mpg, but I installed larger tires, so I'm back to about where I started. Its louder, but not obnoxious.......sounds like it should, really !!

 

[johnday]

Hi guys; Right now I run around 17-18 combination driving with no trailer. I have a SuperChips programmer that I set up with the 60HP program and an additional 115# torque. The truck runs great! With around 11K behind it at 70 MPH I'm down to 10.5-11, still not real bad. With fuel at $3 a gallon, I'm spending megabucks.

The system I bought is made by AFE, as in airbox fame. It's 4" from the turbo back, and "they" say will give you 1.5-2 more mpg. Another 25HP, and 45# more torque. The air filter setup I've no idea how much it will increase the mpg, but it Sure can't hurt it either.
I found out the stock downpipe is 3" out of the turbo, then is reduced to 2.5", then expands to 3.5 at it's outlet. Seems quite restrictive.
Can't wait to check this thing out when it's done, Think I'll have some fun with it?

 

[Junkman]

I know in the old days that they put restriction into the pipes to keep the turbo spinning faster. On my Corvair, the two things that effect the turbo output are restriction and heat. If you can keep the exhaust temperature high, then the output from the turbo is more. Back in the 1960's we used to wrap the pipes from the engine to the turbo with asbestos cloth and then coat the entire cloth with a product called "water glass". That would harden on the asbestos cloth and keep the heat in. If I remember correctly, the water glass was a liquid silica product. Whatever it was, it worked well, but the pipes would self destruct from the heat. At that time, no one cared, because replacement pipes cost under $15 and the boost was worth every penny of it. When I think back driving that car at 90 MPH up I91 to Vermont on those factory tires, I wonder how I ever survived. Those were the days when premium gas was 110 octane and 35 cents a gallon..... in those days, they didn't mess with the octane numbers either.

 

[johnday]

Junk; Hey I remember those days too! My first new car I got in '69. A 340 Dart Swinger, 4 speed, 3.91 suregrip, banana yellow, with a black vinyl roof and interior. That thing would SCREAM!!! Wish I had it back!!

You must not have read Naders Raiders article about unsafe at any speed, kinda like the book about "How We almost lost Detroit!!

Anywho, the turbo. Abalutly correct. A turbine is nothing more than a heat machine. The more heat, the more power to a point. One of the things you have to watch though is the inlet gas temps. With the newer ones at least, 1300 F is about max if you like the thing. When your working it, your temps can really rise fast if it's been turned up too much. Those bearings and blades are rather costly. I think one of the advantages of a larger and less restrictive turbo outlet, is that with less restriction the gasses can flow quiker, and can expand faster, thereby increasing turbo speed, that translates into more boost.

Man, I'm really going back now. Remember the big trucks way back? The guys would work the snot out of em so hard, you'd sometimes actually see fire coming out the stack. 'Course, they weren't turboed either back then

 

[johnday]

Geez, I'm feelin like LBrown replieing to himself. Got the Wix filter installed this afternoon. Sure made a difference. The engine definetly is getting more air now, and the turbo seems to whine a little more. Just that has turned the truck on. I've still got the 4" turbo back exhaust to put on, will do that later this week I hope. Wish I'd done the filter thing a while ago! It was the cheapest mod I ever did, $42 including taxes!

 

[Av8r3400]

John, In the Cummins circle we call the filter you installed a BHA (Big Honkin' Airfilter), and it's a common mod. Much higher cfm than a K&N without the lack of filtration. I threw away my K&N after discovering the dust in the pipe just ahead of the turbo!!

The same project is on my list-- BHA and 4" loud pipe. I have removed the muffler on my '94 Cummins about 6 years ago and do not have any droning problems at highway speeds. My exhaust is 3" currently and goes all the way out the back in the stock location. 4" may make things a bit louder though.

Did you add a pyrometer and boost gage yet? (Also on my list) They say 1200° in the exhaust manifold is the max on a Cummins, so probably similar in a PS. This reading determines how much fuel you can add without destroying the motor.

 

[johnday]

Yeah, a pyro and boost gauges are on my list too! We call that filter simply BFF! I've gone with the K&N and Amsoils version in the stock air box. Really didn't notice any difference in anything other than a mess cleaning and reoiling them. The Wix filter is better than 8" diameter, and a little over 12" long! Did I say it was big? It's the first time I'd ever installed a filter that made any difference other than if they were filthy. The K&N and Amsoil were both replacements for the stock filter, not the whole system with airbox etc.

One other thing I've noticed since the filter, is when you mildly get on it, when the trans shifts and the rpms drop, you can really hear the turbo flutter for a second or two. I don't believe thats any worry though. Personnally, I really like the sound of my Stroker, and am about ready to puddle my britches to get that 4' exhaust on!

 

[johnday]

Well, I didn't puddle me britches, got the 4" exhaust on first. The difference is unbelievable!!! I've not gotten hard on it yet, maybe only halfway to the floor, and had to watch the rpms even then. It appears I've picked up about 1 mpg, and that has been in town driving. I've found myself running with the passenger window down alot. That turbo really whines now, I love it!! Now when fuel goes below 3 bucks a gallon, I'll try from a dead dig and see what it'll do. Just the grin factor has made it worth the bucks!

 

[Doc]

I bet it sounds GREAT! That's awesome it increased milage that much. Plus more HP. Win / Win / Win situation. Cool.

 

[BadAttitude]

Really didn't notice any difference in anything other than a mess cleaning and reoiling them.

John, just an FYI...
I don't know the year and specifics of the engine setup for your hauler, but if it has a MAF(Mass Air Flow sensor) the oiled filters are known for fouling them up.

 

[johnday]

BA; Excellent heads up. I quit using those types of filters a while back. To me they just weren't worth the mess and initial expense. I'll try to get a photo later today and show you guys what I did.

How, and what would you use, to clean the ducting and MAF if it would happen to have an oil film on it. Anything to be extra careful around?

My Stroker is an '01 I bought in 8-2000, have no desire [or the bucks] to replace it. 104K miles and nothing wrong worth mentioning. Did I mention it's red?

 

[BadAttitude]

How, and what would you use, to clean the ducting and MAF if it would happen to have an oil film on it. Anything to be extra careful around?

Usually once the oil has gotten on the sensor wire, the heat cokes it on permanently. You can use brake kleen or an alcohol based product to clean it up...but MAKE SURE the engine and MAF are COLD! If it works OK now, don't bother cleaning the sensor, just clean the duct work. Any codes ever set for the MAF?

 

[johnday]

BA; Here's the photo of the airfilter I installed. Can you say "huge"?

This morning I had to run up to Dearborn, mixing it up with minicars and SUVs all the way. To defend my honor amongst the crazies, I jumped on it a couple times. Suffice it to say, I left all them in black smoke. This thing really screams with the filter and 4" exhaust. I get a lot of turbo flutter when you back off, but I knew what it was and wasn't concerned. I liked it just fine with just the programmer, but even more so now. And to think all thats been done will only increase the life of the truck.

I'm going to dig out my programmer in the morning just to see if there are any codes brought up. According to the advertisements I should be able to pull any up. What would be an indication that the MAF may be having problems?

 

[BadAttitude]

If you had MAF problems, you'd know it...driveability would suck! It would stall, stumble, hesitate, etc. Since it's a fairly critical component of OBDII, the SES(check engine) lite would definately be on. Here's a tip to remember...if you ever experience those types of conditions, unplug the MAF and see if it makes a diff. If it improves driveability considerably, you got a bad one. or you can "lightly" rap the sensor with your hand and see if the engine reacts to it. If it does, again...it's a sign of a bad MAF.

I'd be curious if any MAF code set, but I doubt it since you said this rig runs strong. Plus no mention of the SES lite either.

That filter is a big plus and it's starting to become the norm for OEM design, especially trucks and SUVs. I tend to agree with Junk about the 4" exh though, but as long as it works for your needs...leave it.

...I hear you on the soot blast. Best way to get a tailgater off yur azz real quick!!

 

[johnday]

Thanks BA. I never knew that about the MAF. The SES light has never been on, but just for giggles, I'll put the programmer on it just out of curiousity.

 

[Wannafish]

Let's revive this thread - 'cause I just picked up a 06 F250 with the 6.0 PSTD.

Do you think the programmer or air filter with void my warranty?

 

[johnday]

Congrats Richard, a nice truck to be sure! I've heard various answers to this. One is, that if you have a problem, Ford has to prove it before they refuse warranty work. Another, that Ford has somehow made it apparent on the underdash connector where you plug in the programmer that it has been tampered with. Ofcourse, who's to say you don't have a code reader that plugged in there instead? My programmer can be used for code reading as well as turning up the engine.Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - Ford truck and SUV owners and enthusiasts Community And Information Source. DIESELSITE.COM
Check out the two websites I just sent you, but yes, let's revive this thread.

 

[BigAl]

Let's revive this thread - 'cause I just picked up a 06 F250 with the 6.0 PSTD.
Do you think the programmer or air filter with void my warranty?

A good friend just bought a new 2005 or 2006 6.0 Ford from the dealer . He has the programable computer he purchased at a speed shop to turn up the HP on it . He just turns it back if he goes in for dealer work . No problems so far . I have not messed with my 2006 F250 6.0 Ford . I do not know what I would do with more power anyway .
Al

 

[HGM]

Just a couple of things to add here.. The 7.3L does not have a MAF.. No worries with contamination from the filter.. It just dusts the engine

As for the 6.0L.. I wouldnt chip it unless your really comfortable working on it.. The dealer will be able to tell, and in some cases will be able to deny waranty because of it.. The 6.0L is a good engine if you drive it like you should(like a gas burner).. If you think its a race car or a big rig, you'll blow it up. Just use your heads.. I dont mean to imply anything, just lending my experience... Good luck, if you have any questions regarding the PS, I can probably help..

 

[BadAttitude]

All the oiled filters do is screw up the MAF and turn the SES on. Most reputable shops know what to look for when a failed MAF is found.

As far as the chip goes, as HGM states...don't!! The lower ends can't take the abuse of xtra HP. The Ford people already know what to look for when it grenades. Even if you removed the chip. The 'black box' will store alot of info that you can't hide from them. So yes...It will void the warranty.

 

[HGM]

No disrespect BA, but its the top ends of the 6.0L that cant handle the mods.. The bottom end is pretty tough... The guys that have replaced the Tq-Yeild head bolts with studs are doing pretty wild stuff with the 6.0L.. For the average joe, leave it alone and enjoy the natural power..If its not enough, drive a stock '99 7.3L, you'll be verry happy with your 6.0L.. BTW, you wont get a better air filter than the Donalson filter on the 6.0L either, so please leave it there.. Again, I have allot of experience with these, customers inadvertantly cause allot of the problems you hear about...

 

[Av8r3400]

HGM - exactly correct. Leave it alone and it will live. Mod (bomb) it and it will distroy itself without serious beefing/rebuilding. Watch the turbo inlet tempreture - pyrometer and boost pressure (even in stock trim) and you *should* be okay.

Ex-neighbor had one of these ('04 6.0 PSD completely stock) and went through 3 turbos and 2 injector pumps before the motor let go all together. Now he drives something else (inline six) and hasn't had any issues. He pulls horses all over the country.

 

[HGM]

This may or may not fit in your neighbors case. However, in most of the turbo failures on the 6.0L, the failure is caused by lack of driving or excessive idle time. The moving parts in the turbo(vanes and unison ring) rust and collect carbon.. The new turbos are more resistant to this due to a machined recess in the ring, but either way, a diesel was never meant to be idled..

As for the injector pump , there have been some replaced, but '03-'04 had the Rexroth pump(same design as the 7.3L) and didnt fail much.. It was pretty good, but as we all know, stuff happens....

You mention the pyrometer, if I remember correctly, the pistons will melt at 1800*F.... So the closer you get to the combustion chamber the better.. The driver just needs to remember if 1800 is the number he's looking for, its already cooled since it left the cylinder... Piston's already melted , the turbo is just a small peice of the pie..I agree that 1200*F @ the manifold should be max...

 

[BadAttitude]

No disrespect BA, but its the top ends of the 6.0L that cant handle the mods.. The bottom end is pretty tough... The guys that have replaced the Tq-Yeild head bolts with studs are doing pretty wild stuff with the 6.0L.. For the average joe, leave it alone and enjoy the natural power..If its not enough, drive a stock '99 7.3L, you'll be verry happy with your 6.0L.. BTW, you wont get a better air filter than the Donalson filter on the 6.0L either, so please leave it there.. Again, I have allot of experience with these, customers inadvertantly cause allot of the problems you hear about...

No disrespect taken...
I was born and bred GM, so Ford is not my passion...other than maybe a 428 Cobra Jet or the Boss 429

Across the street from my shop is a Ford store and from what I've been told by a few techs there, is the lower ends(spitting rods out the side) and head gskts were the weak links when it's been chipped.

 

[Wannafish]

Just a couple so far...

 

[HGM]

No disrespect taken...
I was born and bred GM, so Ford is not my passion...other than maybe a 428 Cobra Jet or the Boss 429

Across the street from my shop is a Ford store and from what I've been told by a few techs there, is the lower ends(spitting rods out the side) and head gskts were the weak links when it's been chipped.

Yea, I could tell we were in the same bussiness... (sorry it'll drive you to drink sometimes)... I've always been just the oposite with the brands, nothing wrong with either, just preference I guess...What area are you located in? I've only heard of a very few bottom end issues across the country, nothings impossible...

Wannafish, nice truck, I like the look of the '05-'06 allot .. Their a tuff looking truck.. In fact, the '07-'08 takes it a bit further too.. Their starting to look more like the Tonka show truck..

 

[BadAttitude]

Yea, I could tell we were in the same bussiness... (sorry it'll drive you to drink sometimes)... I've always been just the oposite with the brands, nothing wrong with either, just preference I guess...What area are you located in? I've only heard of a very few bottom end issues across the country, nothings impossible...

Great business...eh?
It's probably one of the reasons that motivated me to quit drinking. The booz didn't make the headaches go away, it only increased them.
I live in CT and from what I've seen and been told, the windy back roads and numerous hills are part of the problem. Add the abusive and inexperienced drivers and...you get the picture

 

[HGM]

Great business...eh?
It's probably one of the reasons that motivated me to quit drinking. The booz didn't make the headaches go away, it only increased them.
I live in CT and from what I've seen and been told, the windy back roads and numerous hills are part of the problem. Add the abusive and inexperienced drivers and...you get the picture

I had to get into a different section of the bussiness to cut back my drinking.. It was getting bad when I was on flat-rate..... Hell, I was able to afford moving out of the rental and get a new home here in Georgia after I took the pay cut by quiting the dealer... Its funny how things work..

The mountain roads and overloading are killing the headgaskets prety regularly.. We tell them they are 2,000lb overloaded and the guys typicly say "my 7.3L could do it"... So, needless to say, the engine is getting a bad rap.. Not all of it is warented because the nut behind the wheel causes a good bit.. Oh well, what can you do..