How much of a pay cut could you take?

[tommu56]

"
Electro-Motive Diesel, which makes diesel-electric locomotives in London, Ont., has locked out more than 400 unionized workers after they refused to take a 50 per cent cut in wages and benefits.
The collective agreement between EMD and the Canadian Auto Workers Local 27 ran out at the end of 2011, and picket lines were set up at 6 p.m. Sunday.
EMD is owned by construction-equipment maker Caterpillar through its Progress Rail subsidiary. Caterpillar has a reputation for being tough on unions and waiting out long strikes.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper visited the Electro-Motive plant in 2008. (PMO)"This is a case where our members have been locked out by corporate greed," CAW president Ken Lewenza said in a statement. "Caterpillar may be one of the richest corporations to ask for the deepest of cuts."
The CAW has called for the federal government to disclose any commitments made during the 2010 purchase of Electro-Motive by Caterpillar under the Investment Canada Act.
Union leaders fear Caterpillar will move production to a Progress Rail plant in Muncie, Ind., which opened on Oct. 28 and also produces diesel-electric locomotives, media reports say. It could benefit from any Buy American policies that might affect purchasing in the U.S.
Union officials told the London Free Press that the final offer would cut wages to $16.50 from $35 an hour, though the CAW has made it clear it rejects wage cuts as long as Caterpillar enjoys record profits.
Plant worker Brad Boufford compared the company's offer to "a huge slap in the face.
"I had never encountered something as arrogant as that in my life," he told CBC News. "It was a shock."
"For a profitable corporation to come in and demand a 50 percent wage and benefit cut is really quite unprecedented," said labour analyst Jason Russell."


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/01/02/end-lockout-london.html




tom

 

[BigAl]

Gotta love the Unions ! A bunch of F^cking idiots !!!
I could take a 50 cent pay cut all day long and still make ends meet . Its all about spending only for what you really need not want .

 

[squerly]

"For a profitable corporation to come in and demand a 50 percent wage and benefit cut is really quite unprecedented," said labour analyst Jason Russell."

LOL, Jason Russell needs to understand that it's the companies money, and they can do with it what they want... Whether he likes it or not.

 

[jpr62902]

Looks like Caterpillar can find a workforce in Muncie that will take $16.50\hour ($34.3k\year). What's the skill level of the work? Does it warrant $35\hour ($72.8k\year), or has the Union priced themselves out of their jobs?

 

[BigAl]

Looks like Caterpillar can find a workforce in Muncie that will take $16.50hour ($34.3kyear). What's the skill level of the work? Does it warrant $35hour ($72.8kyear), or has the Union priced themselves out of their jobs?

Man ! You nailed it !
I agree 100% . The union workers must think they are like Lawyers or somethin.


Ok ... Cool your jets ... Am here to get reactions going tonight . We all know that you do all your Lawyerin stuff Pro Bono . God bless you !


My wife already called me a ass tonight ...... so get in line !

 

[Catavenger]

could take a 50 cent pay cut all day long and still make ends meet

It's 50 percent (half) not 50 cents.

 

[BigAl]

It's 50 percent (half) not 50 cents.

Well crap ! Shame on me ! Ok ... I'll still do it .

It helps if you don't spend outside your means . I am fortunate . I don't have to stay up with the Jones as they are in hock up to their ass anyway .

 

[thcri]

Yeah well many people cry that business's should share their profits with it's employees but when cuts need to be taken they run.

As for the 50 percent pay cut I had to do that back in 2004. On top of it I had to borrow money to keep the company going. No I did not like it but it was better than not working at all. I think we could see more of this coming.

 

[Catavenger]

Maybe the company could have tried a lower percent? Yes it seems like the workers get paid alot but 50 percent is also a lot.

 

[thcri]

Maybe the company could have tried a lower percent? Yes it seems like the workers get paid alot but 50 percent is also a lot.

No doubt 50 per cent is a lot. No it is an awful lot and the majority of them would have an extremely hard time keeping up. But what choice do you have? The alternative is lose your job or the company going out of business and you lose your job anyway. Even with 50% being lower than unemployment I think I would take it.

 

[jpr62902]

Maybe the company could have tried a lower percent? Yes it seems like the workers get paid alot but 50 percent is also a lot.

I'm reading that in 2007, Honda was starting American workers off at $14.84\hour in Honda's midwest plants. I'm starting to think that the union was simply demanding way more than their labor was worth.

 

[joec]

My only question is this. Is the $35 per hour rate based on actual money in the check or what it cost the employer in insurance etc added on? The reason I ask is when I worked for hourly wages I got one price while the boss charged 3 times my hourly rate for my labor.

Now as for a pay cut, $16 per hour would be double my current salary if broken down in hourly rates.

 

[tommu56]

Ill bet the CEO didn't take a 50% cut

What is good for the goose is good for the gander!

I'm not along the gender line

not my Quote but i love it

"PEORIA — Caterpillar Inc. Chairman and CEO Doug Oberhelman made $10.5 million in total compensation for 2010, based on the company's record sales and profits for the year.

In a year, 100 guys making $35/hour earn $7.28 million. Half that is ~$3.6M.
Maybe the CEO can take a pay cut and squeak by on "only" SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS.

"



tom
​

 

[jpr62902]

My only question is this. Is the $35 per hour rate based on actual money in the check or what it cost the employer in insurance etc added on? The reason I ask is when I worked for hourly wages I got one price while the boss charged 3 times my hourly rate for my labor.

Now as for a pay cut, $16 per hour would be double my current salary if broken down in hourly rates.

We're talkin' union shop rates, not union artisan\contractor rates, so I'm guessing $35\hour is the actual wage, not what is billed. Al? Murph? BigDog? You guys know about dis, right?

 

[joec]

We're talkin' union shop rates, not union artisancontractor rates, so I'm guessing $35hour is the actual wage, not what is billed. Al? Murph? BigDog? You guys know about dis, right?

That is why I asked since I haven't worked for wages since '79. Most of my work was contract or salary stuff until I bought into what I do now. The prevailing wage here is about $10 per hour but again no union shops here that I'm aware of.

 

[muleman]

My last job was building railcars in an IAM shop. That 16.50 rate was higher than almost all trade workers made. Folks would jump on those wages around here. They did build locomotives there before as well as the subway cars we were producing. Plant is sitting empty right now with no new contracts to run.

 

[jpr62902]

Ill bet the CEO didn't take a 50% cut ​

What is good for the goose is good for the gander!​

I'm not along the gender line​

not my Quote but i love it​

"PEORIA — Caterpillar Inc. Chairman and CEO Doug Oberhelman made $10.5 million in total compensation for 2010, based on the company's record sales and profits for the year.​

In a year, 100 guys making $35/hour earn $7.28 million. Half that is ~$3.6M.
Maybe the CEO can take a pay cut and squeak by on "only" SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS.

"​

tom​

My reaction is, "Why should he?"

He's running a profitable business and trying to keep it that way by returning labor costs to their appropriate value. He's doing his job. Well.

By my calculations, CAT paid almost 1.2 billion in dividends in 2011. That's a lot of shareholders. Shareholders who won't be very happy if stock they paid almost $100\share for is run into the ground because of overpriced labor.

 

[300 H and H]

My gut feeling is that the average skill level in a factory today is much less than it was say 40 years ago....

The evolution of the machine tools has led to many less people "in the know" on the plant floor than any time, perhps in manufacturing history. So much is automated and just needs a "baby sitter" to keep machines supplied and clear jambs. Very little skill required by the operator. This is why the Chinese are able to take (cheap) unskilled labor and make relativly high teck products, IMHO. But hey I am jut a farmer here, and this is just my observation.....

Regards, Kirk

 

[joec]

My reaction is, "Why should he?"

He's running a profitable business and trying to keep it that way by returning labor costs to their appropriate value. He's doing his job. Well.

By my calculations, CAT paid almost 1.2 billion in dividends in 2011. That's a lot of shareholders. Shareholders who won't be very happy if stock they paid almost $100share for is run into the ground because of overpriced labor.

That is just obscene in my opinion the CEO makes what 100 worker make, hell let him draw the salary of 50 workers. Like he can't live on that and the share holders will get their money too. That is the problem today screw the people that actually produce the product so the fat cat at the top can get fatter.

 

[thcri]

In the construction industry your bill out rate has to be at least double of what you pay the employee. At that you are at cost not making any money on that person at all. Two and a half times is probably more accurate. A union and this is only my opinion but do to increased overhead costs due to reporting and clerical I would have to think you are more on the 3 times of what is paid to the employee.

 

[300 H and H]

Joec,

I quote;

That is the problem today screw the people that actually produce the product so the fat cat at the top can get fatter.

We used to use the income tax rates at the top to keep greed in check too....But that ended in about 1981 if I remember right....

Regards, Kirk

 

[thcri]

That is just obscene in my opinion the CEO makes what 100 worker make, hell let him draw the salary of 50 workers. Like he can't live on that and the share holders will get their money too. That is the problem today screw the people that actually produce the product so the fat cat at the top can get fatter.

I had this discussion once before with another person here and it may not be true in this instance but in the company we were discussing the CEO was making like 7 or 8 Million a year. Which was outrageous. We took that money and divided it out between all of the employees in this large corporation and if we took his wages and divided it all out amongst the employees it did not add much to their paychecks.

 

[jpr62902]

That is just obscene in my opinion the CEO makes what 100 worker make, hell let him draw the salary of 50 workers. Like he can't live on that and the share holders will get their money too. That is the problem today screw the people that actually produce the product so the fat cat at the top can get fatter.

The people whom you say, "produce the product" do not negotiate with politicians, vendors or suppliers. They don't work 4000 hours a year. They don't have decades of education followed by decades of experience.

You're comparing apples to rabbits and trying to justify a pro rata equivalence therefrom.

 

[joec]

I had this discussion once before with another person here and it may not be true in this instance but in the company we were discussing the CEO was making like 7 or 8 Million a year. Which was outrageous. We took that money and divided it out between all of the employees in this large corporation and if we took his wages and divided it all out amongst the employees it did not add much to their paychecks.

Well if you have to save money then cut his check in half. He surely won't starve nor will his life style even be that effected. Sorry no can go along with these outrageous bonuses and salaries regardless. If you want to cut salaries cut his then take the workers back then.

 

[Catavenger]

[I'm reading that in 2007, Honda was starting American workers off at $14.84hour in Honda's midwest plants.

Note this is a STARTING wage. Thus it is not what the workers might make in just a few years.

 

[thcri]

Well if you have to save money then cut his check in half. He surely won't starve nor will his life style even be that effected. Sorry no can go along with these outrageous bonuses and salaries regardless. If you want to cut salaries cut his then take the workers back then.

Possibly on the same page. You could save money by cutting his wages but even if you totally cut his wage you would not be able to give much more to the employees. Now if you did cut his wages to the point some other corp picked him up then what is the outcome of the company. These guys with the big wages get them for a reason and that is they make corporations click.

 

[jpr62902]

[I'm reading that in 2007, Honda was starting American workers off at $14.84hour in Honda's midwest plants. /QUOTE] Note this is a STARTING wage. Thus it is not what the workers might make in just a few years.

It's also in 2007 dollars, which were worth more.

 

[Catavenger]

These guys with the big wages get them for a reason and that is they make corporations click.
__________________

Just maybe the workers get those wages because they do the work?

 

[jpr62902]

Just maybe the workers get those wages because they do the work?

They do some of the work. And if someone else will do it cheaper and just as well, then ya might wanna consider making yourself more valuable, instead of trying to collectively induce some duress on management via strike.

 

[Catavenger]

And if someone else will do it cheaper

Someone will always do it cheaper in China but then we will have crappy products. I used to drive forklifts. Caterpillers were really good.

For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages."
1 Timothy 5:18