Finally found my Tucker!

[Thefatsquatch]

Well, I finally found a pontoon cat. Appears to be in decent shape, but I suspect time and inspection will differ.
I already know I need to redo the pontoon surfaces, and it needs a new ignition (and I am quite sure some wiring) but it looks decent.
I won't be getting rid of the Thiokol, because it is getting a blade, and I am sure I will need it to rescue this one. (or vice versa) I won't get rid of the Cushman, because it is a toy, and my wife is willing to drive that one. And I won't be getting rid of the 4vl, because it is old and I kinda dig it. But, this one runs and has all the parts already, so it is going to take priority.
The body work and welding I can do, but I will be searching the forums often to understand how the pontoons work.
I suspect that simply making sure everything is safe, and the operational parts are... operational will be the only thing I manage to get done before summer, but that should get me out in the snow.

 

[DAVENET]

Very cool!

 

[Thefatsquatch]

Clyde is off for 2 weeks at Tucker. Anyone know where I can find a manual for this thing?

 

[Blackfoot Tucker]

Congratulations!

FWIW, I think there is a lot more knowledge of steel tracked Tuckers on the forum than there is at Tucker, Inc.

Yes, they built them, but that was well before almost all of the current employees worked there. So how much knowledge, and recent experience do they really have? (Hint: Precious Little!)

 

[Thefatsquatch]

Congratulations!

FWIW, I think there is a lot more knowledge of steel tracked Tuckers on the forum than there is at Tucker, Inc.

Yes, they built them, but that was well before almost all of the current employees worked there. So how much knowledge, and recent experience do they really have? (Hint: Precious Little!)

Fair enough, although they do have the building sheet, or so I’m led to believe. It appears to be a GM motor in there, so I’m curious just how much has been swapped out on this unit. I’m certainly not opposed to continued modification. If I have to chance things, they will get improved.

 

[Thefatsquatch]

Ok. So I am pretty sure the engine and transmission have been swapped, but I can't tell for sure yet. It currently has a period-appropriate GM 250 inline 6, mated to a Muncie SM420 transmission, with the driveline parking brake. Unfortunately the brake drum is nearly worn all the way through. I know a place to get the bands re-surfaced, but there is no way anyone has the drum for sale. So that will be either a re-fab or a significant repair. The engine runs fine, but won't idle, but half the vacuum hoses are missing, so that is to be expected. It also has completely the wrong air filter on it, so who knows what has gotten in there. One of the pontoons looks either new or freshly redone, so I am modeling all my repairs on the other 3 after that one.
I have read a ton of threads regarding the rollers, and I might try a few of the ideas, just to see if they work. HDPE rollers or sliders, nylon, still flat rollers with oversized washers... I will keep you posted if any of those actually work. Looks like about half my track wheels are good, which means I will still need a loan even after an arm and a leg.
The dash is coming out Monday for a complete re-wiring. The last time it was apparently done by a monkey on amphetamines. I also plan to add a light system to the top, but haven't seen one I really like. Any examples out there?

 

[Thefatsquatch]

Also, what aluminum skin did Tucker use on these things? 3003? 6061? 7075? My daughter's boyfriend works at a custom sheetmetal shop, and is offering to help me replace some of the more beat-up or broken panels, but he wants to make sure it's the correct stuff.

 

[DAVENET]

Also, what aluminum skin did Tucker use on these things? 3003? 6061? 7075? My daughter's boyfriend works at a custom sheetmetal shop, and is offering to help me replace some of the more beat-up or broken panels, but he wants to make sure it's the correct stuff.

I replaced my bad panels with .063 using 5250-H32. My engine panels and especially the rear cab from snow guns getting pitched in the bed were hammered. The 5250 is a better product than what was available back in '69 for corrosion resistance and the slightly thicker skin should be much more durable.

 

[DAVENET]

I replaced my bad panels with .063 using 5250-H32. My engine panels and especially the rear cab from snow guns getting pitched in the bed were hammered. The 5250 is a better product than what was available back in '69 for corrosion resistance and the slightly thicker skin should be much more durable.

To clarify the material was available, but Tucker would not and did not incur the extra cost to use it.

 

[Don Coyote]

Ok. So I am pretty sure the engine and transmission have been swapped, but I can't tell for sure yet. It currently has a period-appropriate GM 250 inline 6...

Lol..................I just pulled a GM 250 out of my 442, and I'm getting ready to put a 292 back in it. I bought the spare engine three years ago. Now, the 250 needs a new clutch and a new oil pan... so I'm putting the spare engine in it, just for the heck of it. When Shanty Creek Resort in Bellaire Michigan owned my Tucker, I was told it had a Dodge 318 in it. (I doubt THAT was original, either). So when Shanty Creek sold it, I'm sure that whomever bought it only wanted the engine and they scrapped the rest. Someone salvaged it and put the 250 in it.

That's funny....... I thought I had the only Tucker with a Chevy engine in it.

 

[Don Coyote]

UPDATE: ............ I was looking up vin/suffix codes on my "spare" engine and I just discovered that it is NOT a 292..... it's a 250, just like the old one.

..... Dude lied to me!!!

(I don't care, as long as it runs. I only bought it as a spare, I wasn't looking to upgrade to a larger engine).

 

[redsqwrl]

UPDATE: ............ I was looking up vin/suffix codes on my "spare" engine and I just discovered that it is NOT a 292..... it's a 250, just like the old one.

..... Dude lied to me!!!

(I don't care, as long as it runs. I only bought it as a spare, I wasn't looking to upgrade to a larger engine).

Its not in yet. Find a talented machinist and bore it out or swap crank or both. Biggers better... so ive heard

 

[Track Addict]

My 442A had a factory 283 chevy small block.

It is possible yours had a 318 but that vintage and style 442 prob had a factory 251 maybe 265 industrial.

The flathead has plenty of power for Tuckering along.

 

[Thefatsquatch]

UPDATE: ............ I was looking up vin/suffix codes on my "spare" engine and I just discovered that it is NOT a 292..... it's a 250, just like the old one.

..... Dude lied to me!!!

(I don't care, as long as it runs. I only bought it as a spare, I wasn't looking to upgrade to a larger engine).

Grew up with a 292 in the farm truck. And one with a blown rod sitting in the shop. And another one with a hole in the block sitting in the shop behind that one. If figure the motors are almost identical, but if the 250 lasts longer because it has a bit less power, that's ok with me!

 

[Thefatsquatch]

To clarify the material was available, but Tucker would not and did not incur the extra cost to use it.

My daughter's boyfriend sent me a picture of their stock of it at work. And a price list. they have a stack of sheets of it. And I think it is about $3.60 a square foot. At that price, I can screw it up a few times trying to get it right.

 

[DAVENET]

I bought mine from a metal house that also had a metal brake large enough to work the sheet to do the radius corners. I just provided the overall width (48") and the radius needed. I believe that was 3/4". They will know exactly where to start the bend so it's perfect. Then all you have to do is use the original as a template for the glass and fuel fill. For the engine panels I just provided the original sheet so that they could duplicate. The .063 is close to the max thickness that can be bent 180* without 'tearing'. The hood side has a 180* bend for strength and then the two 90* bends that are only 1/2" wide. So it's very tight to work correctly.

 

[Thefatsquatch]

I bought mine from a metal house that also had a metal brake large enough to work the sheet to do the radius corners. I just provided the overall width (48") and the radius needed. I believe that was 3/4". They will know exactly where to start the bend so it's perfect. Then all you have to do is use the original as a template for the glass and fuel fill. For the engine panels I just provided the original sheet so that they could duplicate. The .063 is close to the max thickness that can be bent 180* without 'tearing'. The hood side has a 180* bend for strength and then the two 90* bends that are only 1/2" wide. So it's very tight to work correctly.

Do you know how they made the roll-in for the windows/door windows? The front is pretty straight forward, (although I broke my freaking windshield putting it back in with the new seals last night, but the rear window is recessed, as are the doors around the window.

 

[Thefatsquatch]

Alright. So I got the build sheet, and it would appear that Blackfoot Tucker is absolutely correct. It has been re-powered, which is no surprise. And re-transmissioned. But there are some pretty significant discrepancies: First, the engine code on the build sheet and the placard don't match. I know it isn't still that motor anyway, but it's not a great start. But that serial says 442a on the placard, and 440act on the build sheet. It also says it is a fastback instead of a pickup , fiberglass pontoons instead of steel, and the windshield size is off by an inch. I assume, like anything else, the build got canceled halfway through and re-ordered as a different machine, but Inspector GB has some stuff to account for. It also says the customer was Central NY. PUD? Ski area? No idea.

 

[Thefatsquatch]

It is very tempting to put a 1/2 inch steel square frame in a couple more areas. Like there is in the cab, I feel a small cage around the engine bay would decrease the complexity of the aluminum skins, and provide a better wear surface.

 

[DAVENET]

It is very tempting to put a 1/2 inch steel square frame in a couple more areas. Like there is in the cab, I feel a small cage around the engine bay would decrease the complexity of the aluminum skins, and provide a better wear surface.

True, I just went back with what was there . . .

 

[DAVENET]

Do you know how they made the roll-in for the windows/door windows? The front is pretty straight forward, (although I broke my freaking windshield putting it back in with the new seals last night, but the rear window is recessed, as are the doors around the window.

My rear skin may have had a slight recess, but I kept it flat and installed it just like the windshield.

 

[Thefatsquatch]

Well, I found the first big hiccup. The front axle shaft on the right seems to have sheared both sides of the pin. The nut was loose, but it looks like it gave up a long time ago. It has surface rust all the way through. Do I suppose the first question is: Are these available? And for how much? A lot of this snowcat stuff seems to be “thanks but I’ll have a custom one built” kinda price. I’ve certainly welded axles before, and this doesn’t look unreasonable. But it would take the very limit of my patience to fill this without bending it.

So, back to the skin. It’s got a few cracks. I bought the harbor freight alumaweld rods, followed the instructions to a T, and I just can’t make it stick. Secrets? Actual flux? Is my wire wheel shedding steel into the aluminum? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Pontoon Princess]

Well, I found the first big hiccup. The front axle shaft on the right seems to have sheared both sides of the pin. The nut was loose, but it looks like it gave up a long time ago. It has surface rust all the way through. Do I suppose the first question is: Are these available? And for how much? A lot of this snowcat stuff seems to be “thanks but I’ll have a custom one built” kinda price. I’ve certainly welded axles before, and this doesn’t look unreasonable. But it would take the very limit of my patience to fill this without bending it.

So, back to the skin. It’s got a few cracks. I bought the harbor freight alumaweld rods, followed the instructions to a T, and I just can’t make it stick. Secrets? Actual flux? Is my wire wheel shedding steel into the aluminum? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

these axles were poorly designed/constructed/manufactured and did not hold up well, fix according to what you are good with, the cost of making new ones, exceeds the value of the machine and or the fun of using it, NOS axles are out there, buying used is just ticking time bomb, think you can fix them just them to meet your needs, pretty sure you can make the repairs work

 

[Pontoon Princess]

Alright. So I got the build sheet, and it would appear that Blackfoot Tucker is absolutely correct. It has been re-powered, which is no surprise. And re-transmissioned. But there are some pretty significant discrepancies: First, the engine code on the build sheet and the placard don't match. I know it isn't still that motor anyway, but it's not a great start. But that serial says 442a on the placard, and 440act on the build sheet. It also says it is a fastback instead of a pickup , fiberglass pontoons instead of steel, and the windshield size is off by an inch. I assume, like anything else, the build got canceled halfway through and re-ordered as a different machine, but Inspector GB has some stuff to account for. It also says the customer was Central NY. PUD? Ski area? No idea.

keep in mind not all that is written by tucker is correct, errors are common, next pontoons were changed out many times on machines after they went into service, and east coast machine pontoons had a very hard life and it was common to have pontoons replaced at least once if not many times, those east coasters tend to get their moneys worth out of everything and then some!

 

[Cidertom]

So, back to the skin. It’s got a few cracks. I bought the harbor freight alumaweld rods, followed the instructions to a T, and I just can’t make it stick. Secrets? Actual flux? Is my wire wheel shedding steel into the aluminum? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

That is really more of a brazing rod. The biggest thing I found in using that type of product is stainless steel "toothbrush". After heating scrub the joint with the brush, as you start to get a wet puddle, scrub in the alloy both with the rod, and the brush and add more to fill as required. Note: you go through a lot of brushes that way. The temperature has to be just right as well, and it's just barely below the melting point of the base metal. If you are using an oxygen-acetylene torch have the flame on the rich side of neutral, otherwise the metal oxidizes faster than you can clean it. I found that the repair alloy is more brittle than the base so try to eliminate what ever caused the cracking in the first place.

 

[Don Coyote]

Keep in mind not all that is written by tucker is correct.....

Never build two alike.

 

[Pontoon Princess]

Well,

So, back to the skin. It’s got a few cracks. I bought the harbor freight alumaweld rods, followed the instructions to a T, and I just can’t make it stick. Secrets? Actual flux? Is my wire wheel shedding steel into the aluminum? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

well, tuckers were far from prefect, why not just pop rivet in a patch panel and call it good

 

[Thefatsquatch]

well, tuckers were far from prefect, why not just pop rivet in a patch panel and call it good

That's already been done several times. I don't want it to end up looking like that steam-punk tucker. Crazy cool machine, just not what I am going for. As my wife said yesterday, "Well it's never going to be a show cat, but it's a bit of a mess right now."

 

[Don Coyote]

I'm pretty sure thats the Tucker that they used in the movie "The Last Airbender". It was for sale on eBay, at one point.

 

[Pontoon Princess]

stay orange and tucker on