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DUAL BATTERY SYSTEM.

Junkman's right, it's plated, not solid nickel. Since the terminations are the places that screw up the most, lots of types of wire are "Tinned". In some cases this is a mixture of lead and tin or nickel. It inhibits corrision and makes a better connection at the termination point, wether it's a pressure connector such as a screw, or some type of Crimped connection. Even though Silver is one of the best conductors, it has a bad habit of tarnishing and therefore is not a good choice. That and the fact that it melts at a low temperature and is soft. The list of conductors goes something like this:
Tin, good conductor, medium melting temperature, cheap,
Lead, slightly better, low melting temperature, cheap, doesn't corrode
Aluminum, fairly good conductor, corrodes, cheap,medium melting temperature
Copper, Better conductor, fairly corrision resistant, higher melting temperature, more expensive.
Nickel, Super high melting temperature, ultra hard, Does Not corrode and it's a better conductor than Copper, more expensive.
Silver, The Best conductor, corrodes, melts at a low temperature, soft, and fairly expensive.
Gold, the 3rd best conductor,Does not corrode,melts at a low temperature, soft(the most maluable metal) cost heaps!
Platinum, one of the best conductors, higher melting temperatur than nickel, ultra hard, does not corrode and costs more than gold.
There is practally a direct correlation between the cost and the desireability of a metal as an electrical conductor. Every time a switch sparks it vaporizes some of the contacts. So high temperature metals are desireable. An electric Arc runs about 22,000 degrees, hotter than a cutting torch(7000 degrees), hotter than a nuclear reaction (12000 deg), hotter than outer flames of the Sun. Only the internal temperatures of the Sum (40,000 Deg) exceed that of an electric arc. Just about every material known to man vaporizes at or below about 8000 deg. So every time a solenoid closes, or a relay or switch sparks some of the material is vaporized. Since the terminations are rarely as good as the conductor itself this tends to be the weak point.
 
Lyndon said:
Since the terminations are rarely as good as the conductor itself this tends to be the weak point.

Well you bring up a good point This may be above this topic but still a good point. Are there any good connectors? Instead of aluminum how about Nickle coated copper connectors? Like the male and female ends we would be using in this application?

About 7 years ago I went to Kansas with a friend of mine to look at an old Atlas "E" missle silo to buy. It wasnt really a silo. It was called a coffin type missle base. This is where the missle is laying down. Before launch they would raise it and then launch. The base was under ground and pretty cool! Anyway when we were inside I was looking at the old abandoned missle control systems and was amazed to see nice shiney gold terminals! Every single connector was gold (most likely plated) Those missle bases were Americas first ICBM bases.
 
Re: High Temp wire terminations.

Soldering works better than you'd think. It's limitation is the temp the solder melts at. Real silver solder melts at a much higher temperature than lead. Hardware Specialties and countless other places like it have high temperture crimp connectors that are steel with a nickel coating. For rewiring a snow cat there are heat shrink connectors that look like the regular insulated crimp terminals, but have heat shrink tubing right on the terminal. They aren't very spendy either. The guy that I'm storing the maroon ST4 for rope'd me into rewiring his machine and he supplied the heat shrink terminals and I suplied the wire. It took a bit longer, but came out a nice job.
For instruments, pick up a copy of a VW magazine and you will find places that handel the entire VDO series, for cheap, or on the net. They still produce all the guages except the speedo and the Hours meter in a chrome trim that is a close match to the original 40 year old instruments in your ST4.
 
Junkman said:
The premier battery switch is made by Cole Hersee. It is used on fire trucks and ambulances that can't suffer from electrical problems. Here is the one that I use, and it is often found on ebay at a good price. They are bullet proof and I have never had one fail to work properly.

Hey Junk, I found the Cole Hersee switch for sale on Ebay for $80 (starting bid). What appears to be the same switch at Go2Marine is on sale for $45.00 with a claimed "list price" of $62.95. But from iBoats.com it is sold for the everyday low price of $64.00.

So what is a good price?
 
I found a cole hersey for 1.25 and it went quickly to 28.00 plus. Then add the shipping and it was more than a new one. You can get good deals it all depends on who is bidding that week.
 
Just keep your eyes on the eBay auctions and stay away from the fixed priced "auctions" which are at the bottom of the search page. I have bought them on eBay for about $25 total including shipping. Right now, the prices on eBay are falling, so you should be able to find a good deal. Just hope that you don't start bidding against each other. I will also look around and see if I can find any for you from my ambulance friends.. Junk...
 
I intend to run an isolator system in conjunction with a boat type dual battery switch. This alows individual charging of each battery, individual draining of each battery, or paralleling them for self jump starting or getting every last bit of power out, say for instance, a vehicle stalled out in a creek bed could at least be winched onto dry land before it is completely lost. Your dual battery system design should be goverened by what you need it the most for. Some RV's have a dual battery system, one dedicated to the chassis and the other one dedicated to the coach. Both charged at the same time, but paralled only in an emergency with a button marked "emergency start". This button typically is a momentary button that energizes a relay and parallels the batteries only as long as it is depressed, to get you started again, so things can be recharged. Limited functionality but foolproof. Another set up is commonly found on boats and uses the rotary switch mentioned in previous posts. Very simple and bulletproof switching of batteries. It also requires proper usage, or it will not help you at all. These switches have a position for selecting Battery #1, Battery #2, or both batteries. What can happen, is the switch can be accidentally left in the "both" position and then drain both batteries with no reserve. You can also run down battery #1, switch to battery #2, start the engine, and forget to go back to the "both position. This results in battery #1 remaing run down, which again gives you no emergency reserve when you need it. If you choose to use the boat type switch, consider one with an alternator disconnect feature. If the rotary switch is turned to the off position by mistake with the engine running it will ruin the alternator. With the field disconnect feature, it will not.
 
For my Subaru motor I have found an after market custom wound alternator that puts out 180 amps. at idle she will put out 90 amps. I will have the option of putting a winch on the front or back but want both batteries powering the winch when its in operation. On start ups I want to be able to use both batteries if needed. Everything else I want a single battery to operate. Now this alternator will be costing me $500 and I dont want to burn it up accidently. It sounds like the Battery #1, Battery #2 and Both batteries type switch is the one to go with.
 
Most of those rotary switches also contain the "off" position. The only time you run the danger of burning up the alternator is if you try to connect it to no load at all (off position) or disconnecting both battery cables while the engine is running. The regulator will try to compenstate by increasing output, which is what burns them up. If you can find one that doesn't then it would be ideal. Otherwise use a field disconnect type or a continous duty relay that parallels the batteries when activated, and leaves them seperate when not. You should use an isolator to ensure both batteries get recharged, but cannot backfeed to discharge one from the other. The above mentioned relay could be activated when the ignition switch is turned to the start position, paralleling the batteries during cranking. When the key is rotated back to the run position, the batteries would be again seperate. Then for winch operation, you could have a dash mounted switch that would manually reactivate this relay again. If you leave the switch thrown after winching, you would run the risk of being able to discharge both batteries again. You could instead use the winch switch to activate the relay only while the winch is actually pulling, which would eliminate the possibility of accidentally leaving them connected.
 
IMHO on dual battery systems - my experiance is on my boats, specifically ocean racing and cruising sailboats and also on board an open ocean tournament fishing yacht. You will find that "yachties" are very resoucefull and self- reliant types.

One thing you learn is how to make sure you get home without a lift from the Coast Guard or Navy.

Guest and Perko were the battery switches of choice. Marine battery switches are designed for use in below decks and in bilges where gas or other flamable fumes are likely to be present - nothing like fumes, a cheap switch and a valid insurance policy to turn you boat into a "liquid asset".

Solving the “operator error” problem, the need to remember to flip the battery switch off of BOTH, was always a concern. My favorite solution involves three battery switches and the BatteryLink ACR (automatic charging relay). One switch connects to the Starting Battery, one the House bank, and the third parallels your system in case either battery fails. Three switches create redundancy, and the ACR device handles the charging requirements automatically. You can use a marine battery switch parallel panel for a clean professional three-switch system.

A simpler alternative to isolate your "Start" and "House" circuits (minus the other benefits of a three-switch system, is by using dual circuit plus battery switch. In the ON position, it keeps your batteries isolated, so both can't be fully dicharged by accident. In the COMBINE position, it parallels your batteries in the event of a low starting battery. Used with the BatteryLink ACR, it automatically combines or isolates your batteries when in the ON position.

The battery switch was used in conjuction with an isolator to accomplish the following"

-One battery or bank was used as "house" power
-One battery or bank was used exclusively as "starting" power
-The "Both" setting was used to charge both batteries when under power-
-The isolater was used to prevent one battery or bank from discharging the other by "isolating" it
-With switch and Isolator you can combine dissimilar batteries ie. one good cold cranker with lots of cold cranking amps and a deep cycle running battery
-"Both" setting used to combine batteries for that extra uhmph for hard starting - say at -40 degrees...

-Quality marine battery switches are approved for use where gas fumes could cause an "inconvience" like a 1200 mile swim home....

For cruising, ocean racing and other self sufficient situations there are additonal systems used which we could discuss, but I'm thinking they are not applicable unless you leave you cat in an unpowered remote location for extended periods of time.

Boy, you really got me started.... pun intended
 

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It seems that you will have plenty of battery capacity with this setup. My diesel (7.3 liter navistar) has two 1000 cca batteries in parallel and they will crank that big engine until the cows come home. The batteries you selected should, if there is any chance at all, get you started.
 
I have not assembled a system that is quite as exotic as the one you mentioned. Most of the ones I have experience with are on rescue vehicles that must perform without failure until the mission is complete.
 
My plan will be as simple as possible without the worry about forgetting to switch something back one way or another. My memory is not what it used to be and I tend to get distracted easily by Beautiful women. Dont know what the hell is wrong with me! Anyway The KISS plan is all me. As far as the batteries they seem to be the best I have ever found and have a good compromise between weight and power out put. That is why I chose that particular battery model.
 
My shrewd and cunning plan...

Whether or not I can get the generator running as well as the add-on alternator, I'd like to isolate the intermittent but high-draw items from the 'get home' stuff. My KT-3 belt-driven hydraulic pump has been replaced with an electron-hungry electric pump. When the switch is on, everything goes dim. This must be why the original generator was bypassed for a higher output alternator.

I was going to make two completely isolated systems, but this isolator/combiner I found seems to be the best of both worlds. High-draw accessories isolated from the 'get home' stuff, yet can be interconnected so one circuit/battery can assist the other. And when in auto mode, I don't have to remember to switch anything to avoid draining a battery or killing the alternator.

See http://www.hellroaring.com for info on the isolator/combiner.
 

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The batteries in the KT-3 right now are 460CCA hardwired in parallel for a total of 920CCA. The EnerSys/Odyssey batteries above are rated at 550CCA (1200 5secHCA, 825HCA, 725CA). See the specs here...

http://www.enersysreservepower.com/o...spec&brandID=0

When the switch is thrown in the ON position, that puts them in parrallel for a total of 1100CCA. I'm not sure if there would be room for significantly larger batteries (the electric pump blocks one choice spot).

(I know you secretly lust for a Kristi...)
 
Those are the same batteries I plan on using (see my specs above). BUT they say they are rated at 1200 cca each so that would give you 2400 cca. Am I missing something here?

(Had one and "SOLD" it!)
 
The link to the retailer you listed above shows the specs for 'CA'. But they didn't say that what they were quoting was actually the manufacturers 5second HCA. The differences are...

5Sec HCA - Amps available for 5 seconds at 80F
HCA - Amps available for 30Sec at 80F
CA - Amps available for 30Sec at 32F
CCA - Amps available for 30Sec at 0F

I would think the only one SnowCats would care about would be CCA.
 
I realize that people who can appreciate snowcats for what they are are not likely to be the type who would forget to realign the switches, but I would be negligent if I didn't fully explain the possible down falls of the design I described.
 
I realize that people who can appreciate snowcats for what they are are not likely to be the type who would forget to realign the switches, but I would be negligent if I didn't fully explain the possible down falls of the design I described.

All us humans (mods exempt yourselves) forget once in a while. See if you can find a pilot who would resent a big flashing light, a bleating buzzer, or a synth-o-voice reminding him/her to put the gear down! I think you did a good job explaining the different schemes and covering their ups and downs.
 
IMHO on dual battery systems - my experiance is on my boats, specifically ocean racing and cruising sailboats and also on board an open ocean tournament fishing yacht. You will find that "yachties" are very resoucefull and self- reliant types.
I use a Dual Battery Switch made by Blue Seas System that is designed for offshore boats. When I want to start my Snow Trac, I select BOTH and then after it is started I switch it over to one of the two batteries. My selector is located right on my dashboard in clear view so I don't leave it on BOTH while running.

I'm also running dual spiral core OPTIMA batteries in my Snow Trac.
Its not a fancy automatic system, but it is simple enough for the simple minded to use :snow2_smi:

Here is a link that shows my switch and the mounting location on my dash: http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=517&page=7
 
Nice sytem Bob. I feel you might have trouble down the road with the diffrent batteries even though thay are both spiral core. Also I have found through researching every battery type that the Optima company once it was sold has went completely down hill. Someone changed something inside the batteries and they seem to now die right after the 12 month warrantee (about 18 months on average). If you can get a hold of the older Optimas then there is no problem but thats a crap shoot at best. The company that sold the Optima company now builds the Odyssey batteries. Odyssey batteries which are a true DRY cell battery which are superior to the Gel Cell batteries or any other batteries that I know of on the market today. If you have problems with the Optimas then just pick up two Oyssey batteries of same model and if you can same production dates. BUT your system now is a 100 times better than what any Snow Trac ever left the factory with!
 
Nice sytem Bob. I feel you might have trouble down the road with the diffrent batteries even though thay are both spiral core.

I actually asked about that when I bought the second battery. Both are rated for the same CCA, etc so I was told they would not conflict with each other. However, the battery switch I use keeps the batteries isolated from each other except when I select the "BOTH" setting and I only use that for starting. I don't run it in that setting, so the batteries are only connected together for a few seconds during the starting process, then I change the switch to select only 1 or the other of the 2 batteries. Hopefully the guy at the store is correct and they won't cause problems, but also because I don't run them together, I'm thinking any possible conflict would be minimized.

What I like about my system is it is simple and right in front of me on the dash. There is nothing fancy, it is just a big heavy duty switch. While I love my fancy gizmos in my VW Touareg with its sophisticated electronics, that is not what I want on my Snow Trac. I want simple. My Snow Trac battery set up is just simple. No solenoids to fail. Nothing complicated. Off, 1, 2 or Both. Even I can figure that out!
 
What are dry cell batteries about? I know primary (flashlight) batteries are usuallly dry cell. I have heard about absorbed glass mat and gel cells.
 
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