Biden follows yet more Trump doctrines

[Roofgardener]

Well, Joe Biden made an announcement today. He's going to withdraw all US troops from Afghanistan. Not on 1st May, as Trump stated, but 11th September, to make it 20 years since 9/11.

So this is at least TWO major policies that where - basically - Trump policies.

 

[CrakHoBarbie]

But Donald didn't follow through. Nor did Donald follow through on his promises to replace Obama care, return manufacturing from overseas and have Mexico pay for the wall. But I digress... Are you happy about Biden actually finishing something much needed that Donald started?

 

[300 H and H]

But Donald didn't follow through. Nor did Donald follow through on his promises to replace Obama care, return manufacturing from overseas and have Mexico pay for the wall. But I digress... Are you happy about Biden actually finishing something much needed that Donald started?

Obama care is socializm.
Trump did and was returning manufacturing from over sea's and this doesn't happen over night. Biden's tax increases reverses what we gained fool. Your choice of media is lying to you.
Mexico was indeed paying for the wall with the trade deal Trump got with them. If you would turn off your lying left wing media, you would actually know some thing. Man they have you lefties dumbed down some thing terrible. Shame full really....

 

[Melensdad]

Trump actually did a lot to dismantle Obamacare but he never followed thru on replacing it.

Not sure that Biden announcing a withdrawal date is a good move in the tactical sense. In fact it is downright stupid. But I appreciate that we will pull our troops back home. We should not be the world’s police force. Trump was right to force our NATO partners to start paying their obligations. Got to hope Biden continues that too.

 

[CrakHoBarbie]

Obama care is socializm.
Trump did and was returning manufacturing from over sea's and this doesn't happen over night. Biden's tax increases reverses what we gained fool. Your choice of media is lying to you.
Mexico was indeed paying for the wall with the trade deal Trump got with them. If you would turn off your lying left wing media, you would actually know some thing. Man they have you lefties dumbed down some thing terrible. Shame full really....

Trump straight up lied when he promised that he could return manufacturing. Donald must have known that the benefit of lower wages, rent, utilities and raw materials was far to great an obstacal to overcome. What Donald should of done is manipulated our corporate tax rates to make the U.S. more business friendly. But, instead, he chose the inept "tariff" route. Which we all know failed horribly. As far as the wall, Donald only completed 47 new Miles in four years. Now, that's not to say that he didn't upgrade nearly 500 miles of already existing wall. But Donald chose to do it his way, which sadly, only put out 47 new Miles. Also, in the future, if you'd like to debate on an adult level, great. But I don't appreciate being directly called a "fool". If you want to continue the name calling, I will certainly return it back on you tenfold.

 

[m1west]

Trump straight up lied when he promised that he could return manufacturing. Donald must have known that the benefit of lower wages, rent, utilities and raw materials was far to great an obstacal to overcome. What Donald should of done is manipulated our corporate tax rates to make the U.S. more business friendly. But, instead, he chose the inept "tariff" route. Which we all know failed horribly. As far as the wall, Donald only completed 47 new Miles in four years. Now, that's not to say that he didn't upgrade nearly 500 miles of already existing wall. But Donald chose to do it his way, which sadly, only put out 47 new Miles. Also, in the future, if you'd like to debate on an adult level, great. But I don't appreciate being directly called a "fool". If you want to continue the name calling, I will certainly return it back on you tenfold.

Your moniker fits because you're on something.

 

[CrakHoBarbie]

Your moniker fits because you're on something.

Oh my... Your argument is so lacking, your forced to make fun of my screen name. Well done.

 

[CrakHoBarbie]

Trump actually did a lot to dismantle Obamacare but he never followed thru on replacing it.

Not sure that Biden announcing a withdrawal date is a good move in the tactical sense. In fact it is downright stupid. But I appreciate that we will pull our troops back home. We should not be the world’s police force. Trump was right to force our NATO partners to start paying their obligations. Got to hope Biden continues that too.

Yeah, I don't think Biden thought through the pull out date. But we are past due at getting our arses out of there.

 

[Melensdad]

Yeah, I don't think Biden thought through the pull out date. But we are past due at getting our arses out of there.

I've long held the opinion that the job of our military is break things and kill people.

Our military is very good at breaking things and killing people.

Given what they are good at, and given what they are really supposed to do, going into places and "rebuilding" them with our military after the same military destroyed them seems pretty foolhardy. Bomb them, destroy their nation. Then leave. We cannot force democracy onto people who don't want it. We can't civilize waring tribes. We shouldn't bother to try.

 

[300 H and H]

Trump straight up lied when he promised that he could return manufacturing. Donald must have known that the benefit of lower wages, rent, utilities and raw materials was far to great an obstacal to overcome. What Donald should of done is manipulated our corporate tax rates to make the U.S. more business friendly. But, instead, he chose the inept "tariff" route. Which we all know failed horribly. As far as the wall, Donald only completed 47 new Miles in four years. Now, that's not to say that he didn't upgrade nearly 500 miles of already existing wall. But Donald chose to do it his way, which sadly, only put out 47 new Miles. Also, in the future, if you'd like to debate on an adult level, great. But I don't appreciate being directly called a "fool". If you want to continue the name calling, I will certainly return it back on you tenfold.

Steel plants shuttered for years reopened because of Trump. Steel is at the heart of manufacturing. It is the pulse of the nation. Trump tariff failed? You honestly expect me to believe this? Just ask China about that one LOL! Trump brought them to their knee's to the point they joined into a stolen election of our President. Biden has a $10M donation from Hunter of Chinese loot for him, so you know when it counts he will let China do what ever it wants. You side tried to get Trump for what exactly Biden did. Your corrupt media, your party that lies cheats steals riots loots and burns. We all know exactly who we are dealing with, with CCP in the back ground. BLM is your home grown terrorists squad. You Dems are using the less informed, less privileged members of our society to do your will through false racial allegations that all whites are racist.
In a year and a half kiss it all good bye, due to your party over reach. It's going to be biblical.

 

[Melensdad]

US based auto and parts production also increased.

 

[CrakHoBarbie]

Steel plants shuttered for years reopened because of Trump. Steel is at the heart of manufacturing. It is the pulse of the nation. Trump tariff failed? You honestly expect me to believe this? Just ask China about that one LOL! Trump brought them to their knee's to the point they joined into a stolen election of our President. Biden has a $10M donation from Hunter of Chinese loot for him, so you know when it counts he will let China do what ever it wants. You side tried to get Trump for what exactly Biden did. Your corrupt media, your party that lies cheats steals riots loots and burns. We all know exactly who we are dealing with, with CCP in the back ground. BLM is your home grown terrorists squad. You Dems are using the less informed, less privileged members of our society to do your will through false racial allegations that all whites are racist.
In a year and a half kiss it all good bye, due to your party over reach. It's going to be biblical.

Tariff's are nothing more than an indirect tax on the consumer. The gov charges the corporation, the corporation raises prices to make up for tariff charges and the consumer pays for the tariff charges. That's the way it works. That your not aware of this fact isn't surprising given where you glean your propaganda from. The rest of your post above is just more of the standard radical alt-right propaganda jibberish. Do you have anything new or interesting to say?

 

[300 H and H]

Tariff's are nothing more than an indirect tax on the consumer. The gov charges the corporation, the corporation raises prices to make up for tariff charges and the consumer pays for the tariff charges. That's the way it works. That your not aware of this fact isn't surprising given where you glean your propaganda from. The rest of your post above is just more of the standard radical alt-right propaganda jibberish. Do you have anything new or interesting to say?

This is true only on Chinese imports. They are designed to make these import uncompetitive in price with other similar goods. Orders for Chinese goods fall, as the can not be sold at a profit. Back logs of goods aimed for our markets were jambing up shipping at Chinsed ports. Tens of thousands of Chinese people were cut off form manufacturing causing many to go back to the rural area's in China they came from. It is simple, if you do not want to pay the tariff, then just don't buy any Chinese products. Buy American instead. Amazing what you have to explain to a brain washed Democrat. China makes Garbage in my view, as I am very, very anti China. Communists your team supports.
The tariffs protect American Jobs and workers from China dumping steel and other products here under the cost of production, subsidized by the CCP.. They were doing this to all countries around the globe. This in time eliminates the competition and weakens their ability to manufacture, the heart of wealth creation for a developed country. China is that, yet they hide behind the claim they are not developed as we are. Pure bullsh1t.
The other never talked about thing the tariff's did was to force China to honor any trade deal. For 20 years they never honored an Ag trade bill with the USA. After Trump got done with these Global cheaters, they bought more than they ever had. Tariff's work pretty damn well I would say...
Trump tariff's hurt China badly, and they were desperate to get him out of the White House, along with you Dems with TDS brainwashed into believing what ever the DC swamp and the highly discredited CNN told you. Just watch as Project Veritas tears CNN, Wa. Po., and NYT to shreds, and raids it bank account for the lies it tells. The left wing media your beliefs are predicated in is slowly being discovered as the true propaganda you fool. Do you want me to school you some more LOL!
Just more of the standard radical left wing propaganda jibberish.
Now I am done with your bullsh1t.

 

[CrakHoBarbie]

This is true only on Chinese imports. Garbage in my view, as I am very, very anti China. Communists your team supports.
The tariffs protect American Jobs and workers from China dumping steel and other products here under the cost of production. They were doing this to all countries around the globe. This in time eliminates the competition and weakens their ability to manufacture, the heart of wealth creation for a developed country. China is that, yet they hide behind the claim they are not developed as we are. Pure bullsh1t.
Trump tariff's hurt China badly, and they were desperate to get him out of the White House, along with you Dems with TDS brainwashed into believing what ever the DC swamp and the highly discredited CNN told you. Just watch as Veritas tears CNN to shreds, and raids it bank account for the lies it tells. The left wing media your beliefs are predicated in is slowly being discovered as the true propaganda you fool.
Just more of the standard radical left wing propaganda jibberish.
Now I am done with your bullsh1t.

I guess you can't read, or it's possible your reading comprehension skills are poor. So I will say it again: Tariff's are nothing more than an indirect tax on the consumer. ..... And that is the same for televisions or steel or MAGA hats. Tariff's only hurt the end consumer. Your only fooling yourself if you believe otherwise.

 

[Melensdad]

I guess you can't read, or it's possible your reading comprehension skills are poor. So I will say it again: Tariff's are nothing more than an indirect tax on the consumer. ..... And that is the same for televisions or steel or MAGA hats. Tariff's only hurt the end consumer. Your only fooling yourself if you believe otherwise.

100% agree with you.

And I will add that CORPORATE TAXES are also an indirect tax on the consumer.

Anytime you tax a business, be it one that BUYS or SHIPS goods overseas, or one that makes & sells locally, the tax bill paid to Uncle Sam is built into the price of the item sold. So anyway you cut it, taxes/tariffs on goods and services are always paid by the CONSUMER.

 

[300 H and H]

I guess you can't read, or it's possible your reading comprehension skills are poor. So I will say it again: Tariff's are nothing more than an indirect tax on the consumer. ..... And that is the same for televisions or steel or MAGA hats. Tariff's only hurt the end consumer. Your only fooling yourself if you believe otherwise.

Your both full of BS.
You failed to address what I stated in my post. You just went back to your left wing MSM lines of propaganda. You can not refute anything I said because your lack of intelligence about tariff's and why we do them and how they work.
We did not tariff a damn thing made in America. We did not tariff lots of things from other nations, because we have trade cooperation. Tariff's are used when trade is not fair. Trade with China has never been fair. Tariffs were use against them for good reason..
All this bullshit about Corporations passing these tariff's on to consumers is ONLY true with imports NOT MADE HERE by a Nation we are imposing tariff's on. This is not to be confused with a Duty, a tax that is once again not part of this discussion.....
Corporate Tax rates are an entirely separate subject not part of this thread and only interjected to muddy up the waters here...
Mother of God some people are dddddddennnssssseeee.......

Just go back to your ignorant rants of CNN and what ever else it is the floats your boat. Obviously neither one of you ever took economics or business courses back in the day.

 

[CrakHoBarbie]

Your both full of BS.
You failed to address what I stated in my post. You just went back to your left wing MSM lines of propaganda. You can not refute anything I said because your lack of intelligence about tariff's and why we do them and how they work.
We did not tariff a damn thing made in America. We did not tariff lots of things from other nations, because we have trade cooperation. Tariff's are used when trade is not fair. Trade with China has never been fair. Tariffs were use against them for good reason..
All this bullshit about Corporations passing these tariff's on to consumers is ONLY true with imports NOT MADE HERE by a Nation we are imposing tariff's on. This is not to be confused with a Duty, a tax that is once again not part of this discussion.....
Corporate Tax rates are an entirely separate subject not part of this thread and only interjected to muddy up the waters here...
Mother of God some people are dddddddennnssssseeee.......

Just go back to your ignorant rants of CNN and what ever else it is the floats your boat. Obviously neither one of you ever took economics or business courses back in the day.

I couldn't help but notice you make a majority of the posts on this forum. Why is it that such a small percentage of your posts here get replies? I think it may be because your so abrasive and your ideas are so inept and moronic that it becomes a lesson in futility dealing with such nonsense. Your neighbors should consider themselves very lucky that the closest on is a half mile away. I'm done with you.

 

[300 H and H]

I couldn't help but notice you make a majority of the posts on this forum. Why is it that such a small percentage of your posts here get replies? I think it may be because your so abrasive and your ideas are so inept and moronic that it becomes a lesson in futility dealing with such nonsense. Your neighbors should consider themselves very lucky that the closest on is a half mile away. I'm done with you.

I do not post up news you can find on MSM left wing news. I find real news from many times out side our borders that tells the real story.
I am not here to win a popularity contest. Maybe that is your goal, not mine. I hate the Democratic party of lying cheating stealing rioting looting burning ass holes you support......
You on the other hand use words like moronic and futility when in fact I handed you your ass and you have no rebut to anything I said. I see the game you play and who you are. I am here every day. You have been here what 2 or 3?
In my county of 10,000 in the last election, the Democrats got 700 more votes in 2020 than in 2016.
On the Republican side we had over 3,000 new Republican votes in 2020 than in 2016.
If you lived a half a mile from me I would make your life a living hell.

 

[Melensdad]

As someone who imported goods and also sold domestic products I can say that the tariffs are passed onto consumer in the form of price hikes. And I never directly imported anything from China! I did bring in water from Australia and tobacco products from Turkey.

There are tariffs on a lot of different items. Not just on raw goods like steel or aluminum. But right now the European Union is looking to slap a 56% tariff on Harley Davidson motorcycles. 56%. Until very recently H-D got around the tariffs by having their European market motorcycles built in offshore factories so they didn't come from America. But the EU has changed their policy and announced within the past week that HD motorcycles will be hit with the tariff.

That makes the recently introduced LIVEWIRE electric and the new ADV-Touring Pan America motorcycles far more expensive than the European motorcycles made by BMW, Ducati, Triumph and Moto-Guzzi. Absolutely no way that either of the HD products can compete with a 56% tariff tossed on top of the price because the retail price (paid by the consumers) is being increased to cover that cost.

Now it is not just HD that is hurt by this type of tariff it is any other export that is hit with tariffs. And it used to be that we had tariffs on Japanese cars because American cars sucked so bad, so the Japanese made their plants even more efficient and their cars even better, to the point that the Americans chose to buy them despite the high tax imposed on them. But again, it was the CONSUMER who paid the tax.

So you said that tariffs only affect imported Chinese goods. I'm telling you, the obvious, that you are not correct.

And again, for the record, I'm not a liberal or a Democrat. I'm a Libertarian, I have principles that agree with the GOP and others that agree with Democrats. But that does not mean I'm sitting on a fence as a moderate because on many issues I'm far more "conservative" than you are and on others I'm probably more "liberal" than you can understand. It is because I support government restraint, anti-tax, anti-war, anti-death penalty, anti-abortion, etc. Look up libertarian positions and you might surprise yourself.

 

[300 H and H]

I was speaking about Chinese tariffs, not the EU ones. I grant your correct about those. But I can also tell you as a grain producer, the EU is and has been a closed trading block to Agricultural products from the USA. It is only during the time of Trump and the EU trade deal that the EU has purchased from us. These tariff on Harley, were they put there during Trump? Maybe raise tariffs on cars to compensate? This does escalate tensions I agree...

The Chinese tariffs dwarf anything in comparison to the EU. That is mainly what I was referring to, and the fact that it is the importer who pays the tariff, and at times that is enough to halt sales of a product or commodity. Of course if people buy such an item, then the importer who raised the price passes the tariff on to the consumer.

Btw the way nothing you said in your description of your beliefs is a position I hold myself. Of course I am a Republican.. I don't agree with every thing they stand for either. But right now I can see nothing I can agree on with Democrats.

 

[CrakHoBarbie]

I do not post up news you can find on MSM left wing news. I find real news from many times out side our borders that tells the real story.
I am not here to win a popularity contest. Maybe that is your goal, not mine. I hate the Democratic party of lying cheating stealing rioting looting burning ass holes you support......
You on the other hand use words like moronic and futility when in fact I handed you your ass and you have no rebut to anything I said. I see the game you play and who you are. I am here every day. You have been here what 2 or 3?
In my county of 10,000 in the last election, the Democrats got 700 more votes in 2020 than in 2016.
On the Republican side we had over 3,000 new Republican votes in 2020 than in 2016.
If you lived a half a mile from me I would make your life a living hell.

See post#17

 

[Melensdad]

TARIFFS are TARIFFS

Doesn't matter who's products they are slapped upon they all increase prices and the CONSUMER pays the added cost.

Being a libertarian I can piss off leftists and conservatives in the same day, often in the same conversation. Facts matter.

 

[300 H and H]

Here we disagree.
I say it matters a lot. I put American jobs, American products FIRST.
I have been avoiding imports for decades..
Tariffs only affect imports from countries I would chose not to do business with anyway. A tariff reminds me why
Bein able to piss off lefties and conservatives? Just means your not relevant to either party.
When was the last libertarian elected again? I have forgotten....

 

[CrakHoBarbie]

Some people here appear to be lost in the 1950's. They do not seem to be able to grasp the concept that what we have now is a global economy. They appear to not know that their American cars, their cell phones, and the vast majority of all the items they use everyday, are filled with chips, materials and components aquired through that global economy. They rant about their lost freedoms, yet they demand corporations be denied the freedom to manufacture their products , and source their components and raw materials wherever they desire. ..... Isaac Isimov summed it up best when he said: “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

 

[Melensdad]

Here we disagree.
I say it matters a lot. I put American jobs, American products FIRST.
I have been avoiding imports for decades..
Tariffs only affect imports from countries I would chose not to do business with anyway. A tariff reminds me why
Bein able to piss off lefties and conservatives? Just means your not relevant to either party.
When was the last libertarian elected again? I have forgotten....

Tariffs affect our EXPORTS too. And that affects American JOBS and American WORKERS ability to earn a living. It is not just affecting imports!

As I pointed out with Harley Davidson, their American made Livewire and Pan America models are world leaders and groundbreaking but due to tariffs cannot be sold in any quantities in Europe because of tariffs. Those are American made motorcycles and the loss of the EU market effectively costs jobs and paychecks to hundreds of Americans.

As for Libertarians getting elected, actually more get elected every election cycle. Mostly in local and state offices. But there are a couple libertarian US Senators right now, both ran under the GOP and tend to piss off GOP leadership from time to time but look up Senators Mike Lee and Rand Paul. Both are actually libertarians. There are several in the US House of Representatives too, again all ran under the GOP banner but actually are libertarian and vote libertarian principles.

 

[m1west]

Some people here appear to be lost in the 1950's. They do not seem to be able to grasp the concept that what we have now is a global economy. They appear to not know that their American cars, their cell phones, and the vast majority of all the items they use everyday, are filled with chips, materials and components aquired through that global economy. They rant about their lost freedoms, yet they demand corporations be denied the freedom to manufacture their products , and source their components and raw materials wherever they desire. ..... Isaac Isimov summed it up best when he said: “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

We can all see how well having your essential products made all over the world worked out when COVID hit. Why don't we just go ahead and have our military weapons out sourced too.

 

[CrakHoBarbie]

We can all see how well having your essential products made all over the world worked out when COVID hit. Why don't we just go ahead and have our military weapons out sourced too.

We already do outsource many components for our Military. Do you believe American corporations should lose the freedom to have their products built wherever they choose? Or, do you want to restrict that freedom? Do you want American corporations to have the freedom to source components and raw materials wherever they desire? Or do you want to restrict their freedom?

 

[waybomb]

It's not restricting freedom; it's preserving it. The tools that protect our freedom need to be made 100% here. In secret. Nobody should know what our defense and offense systems consist of.

 

[CrakHoBarbie]

It's not restricting freedom; it's preserving it. The tools that protect our freedom need to be made 100% here. In secret. Nobody should know what our defense and offense systems consist of.

I agree. I did not condone trump selling those F-35 stealth fighters to the Saudis. But Donald was going to do what Donald wanted to do. And truthfully, Donald's not the only president to sell U.S. arms to our allies. I applaud your "America first" attitude. But in many respects it would make America worse.