AWD vs 4WD

[Doc]

OreganAlex's post about diesel cars and All Wheel Drive make me think of a question. Didn't want to take his thread off track ....but I'm wondering the difference between AWD and 4WD other than AWD is normally a car and norally sporty, while 4wd is normally a truck. Is there any other difference between the two?

 

[Viking]

Doc, I think AWD is always "engaged." 4WD is selectable by the driver, engaged when the driver wants it. That's my best guess.

 

[bczoom]

My understanding/interpretation is what Viking posted.

 

[Melensdad]

I'm not exactly sure, but I have an AWD Mercury Mountaineer and a 4WD VW Touareg and a somethingWD Volvo XC90.

From what I can tell, AWD is a lighter duty sort of thing. Great for a road car or truck but not something you want to actually use for off roading. I believe the difference lies in how the power is applied to the various wheels during wheel slip and has something to do with the differentials.

 

[DaveNay]

AWD is a vehicle that just has more parts to break, and isn't quite as capable as a 4WD.

We are looking at the new Ford Freestyle for my wife, and I explicitly DO NOT want the AWD package (a Volvo designed system) To me, it is just more to break, and it takes 3 MPG off of the EPA rating.

Dave

 

[bczoom]

Bob,

I too thought that but now scratch my head.
Using this site's definitions, I'm not sure I believe/trust what they're saying.

In their AWD definitions, I believe all their thoughts about AWD can be disproven or dispelled by looking at the specs on either a Mercedes or Audi AWD. (I can go with experience on the MB SUV or Audi A6 sedan).

The MB SUV has low range and various locking options on the differentials.
The Audi A6 actually has a "Differential Lock" on the center console.

Brian

 

[Junkman]

Mercedes has had AWD cars for a long time now, and the newer ones appear to be very reliable. The early ones were nothing but problems from what I have heard. I just can't see why you would need AWD in warm weather and dry pavement. I see it as just more parts to wear out and lower miles per gallon.

 

[OregonAlex]

AWD is a vehicle that just has more parts to break, and isn't quite as capable as a 4WD.

We are looking at the new Ford Freestyle for my wife, and I explicitly DO NOT want the AWD package (a Volvo designed system) To me, it is just more to break, and it takes 3 MPG off of the EPA rating.

Dave

I own a Subaru with a manual. I can't really agree that there are ALWAYS more parts to break. The AWD my manual and that AWD system is done with viscious coupling. When slippage occurs, heat builds up and causes the differential to lock the other side. This is done both side to side and front to back. No computers or fancy parts involved. The Automatic model is a sliight different front to back involving a computer.. and the VDC (electronic traction/stability control) is even more complicated.

when you engage 4WD on a pickup or SUV this generally implies the use of full type locking differentials both side to side and front to back. They are always locked. This is why they are not full time as you don't want to driving in 4WD on dry pavement. You will have a hard time turning and as this requires skidding.

btw, we have had our Subaru Legacy Wagon with the standard 2.5 litre engne and manual tranny for 12 months now (bought new) and have logged 30,000 miles. MPG has average 30 over the course of the entire 30,000 miles. The trip computer keeps the average over the entire trip 1 and trip 2 odometer read. We have not reset trip 2 and it reflects total miles on the car. Also check out reliablity records for Subaru in Consumer Reports. All Subaru's have been AWD for many years now. I don't think you will notice any reliability problems in the Suburu's and as such I would think the AWD systems that go with them as they are standard on all their cars. So I am not convinced that just because you have AWD means it is any less reliable the a 2WD car given that the manufacturer has lots of experience in building them.

My dad used to say the same thing about power windows and door locks. Don't know that I would question reliability or power windows and doors anymore in modern cars.

 

[OregonAlex]

Mercedes has had AWD cars for a long time now, and the newer ones appear to be very reliable. The early ones were nothing but problems from what I have heard. I just can't see why you would need AWD in warm weather and dry pavement. I see it as just more parts to wear out and lower miles per gallon.

For the most part you are correct. Unless you get into sports car AWD systems which function a little different then you expect and contribute in the electronic vehicle stability systems. But not many people can afford a Porsche with AWD.

 

[Junkman]

I believe that the Lincoln Aviator (Ford Explorer in a tuxedo) has AWD and the electronic vehicle stability system. It also has a $45,000 - 50,000 price sticker.

 

[OregonAlex]

Yes.. it has become fashisonable to have AWD in the luxury market.
Acura, Audi A8, MB S Class, etc.

to me AWD makes sense in a car (with low ground clearance) and you don't expect to do much off roading in. Slippery roads (rain, dirty, gravel) they are great. Uneven terrain where a road does not exist... no way. To some extent they help in sport handling in like in a rally car. The Big win with AWD is you leave it on all the time and it will kick in when you have unexpected slippery road condition. As opposed to driving a 4WD where you have to decide to turn it but must turn it off when conditions appear to be ok.

I won't dare to drive very far off the road in my Subaru. It does not have the ground clearance for it anyways.

If I was going somewhere where I NEEDED ground clearance because of the rough off road conditions then 4WD with all differential's locks would be the way to go. This is what use my 4x4 Pickup for.

What do I want my wife driving in on a daily basis? AWD or 4x4? Around here in the Pacific NW? AWD for sure.

 

[bczoom]

to me AWD makes sense in a car (with low ground clearance) and you don't expect to do much off roading in. Slippery roads (rain, dirty, gravel) they are great.

I'll 2nd that. Of everyone I know that lives around me, all but one has AWD or 4WD for the winter. The one that doesn't wrecks every year. Hills and ice don't mix, especially with 2wd.

 

[DaveNay]

I'll 2nd that. Of everyone I know that lives around me, all but one has AWD or 4WD for the winter. The one that doesn't wrecks every year. Hills and ice don't mix, especially with 2wd.

Ahhh...now there's the rub. Around me, the highest hill is the local garbage dump. Other than that, it is just flat flat flat flat.

Dave

 

[Melensdad]

What do I want my wife driving in on a daily basis? AWD or 4x4? Around here in the Pacific NW? AWD for sure.

I agree completely. The lovely Mrs_B drives a Volvo SUV, never goes off road, but in our rural area we have gravel roads, chip & seal roads and paved roads. Despite many people's perceptions of how flat Indiana is, we live in an area with lots of dips and rolls and hills. 70% of the time a 2wd car is fine. But in the winter my front-wd Volvo would not even climb the hill at the end of our street. So now I have an SUV too.

I could have gotten by with any AWD vehicle, it didn't have to be a SUV, but I simply could not pass up the tax breaks that the SUV got from Uncle Sam, so my company car is now an SUV instead of a car. In my case, it was just so much less expensive to buy a 6000#+ SUV than to buy a car that I couldn't rationalize anything else.

 

[Junkman]

I have steep hills all around me and my 2 WD Mercedes with traction control and Michelin Alpine Arctic tires never has a problem. Before I retired, I was driving home in a blizzard and was going all around the stuck cars till I got to the top of the hill where there was a stuck tractor trailer. When I got to the top of that hill, there was a State Trooper that stopped me and proceeded to tell me that I was on the wrong side of the road for half of my trip up the hill. I said that was the only way to get around all the stuck cars. He wasn't amused, but did let me maneuver around the trailer to continue on my way home. Now that I am retired, I don't go out in the snow unless it is to plow.

 

[OregonAlex]

Ahhh...now there's the rub. Around me, the highest hill is the local garbage dump. Other than that, it is just flat flat flat flat.

Dave

When I lived in Michigan we had the exact same thing. It was the only place you could go downhill skiing. Yes, they charged to ski down the garbage dump.

 

[OregonAlex]

I agree completely.
I could have gotten by with any AWD vehicle, it didn't have to be a SUV, but I simply could not pass up the tax breaks that the SUV got from Uncle Sam, so my company car is now an SUV instead of a car. In my case, it was just so much less expensive to buy a 6000#+ SUV than to buy a car that I couldn't rationalize anything else.

OK, I will bite. How was it tax advantagous? Because it is being claim towards a business' as a piece of depreciable capital equipment? They will do this only with trucks and not cars?

 

[villi]

BIG awd Subaru Legacy in Iceland

 

[Big Dog]

AWD is a vehicle that just has more parts to break, and isn't quite as capable as a 4WD.

We are looking at the new Ford Freestyle for my wife, and I explicitly DO NOT want the AWD package (a Volvo designed system) To me, it is just more to break, and it takes 3 MPG off of the EPA rating.

Dave

My wife is about to order a new Ford Freestyle with AWD. Repair isn't an issue, she needs it for our winters! It's the only AWD/4WD vehicle her company uses and why I ain't worried about repairs. It's a company car............. !

 

[DaveNay]

My wife is about to order a new Ford Freestyle with AWD. Repair isn't an issue, she needs it for our winters! It's the only AWD/4WD vehicle her company uses and why I ain't worried about repairs. It's a company car............. !

Please let me know how you like it in a couple months. We don't know anyone who actually owns one, so we have no first-hand knowledge.

 

[Big Dog]

Please let me know how you like it in a couple months. We don't know anyone who actually owns one, so we have no first-hand knowledge.

Will do!

 

[Junkman]

AWD is actually less expensive to repair than 4 wheel drive. There are actually less parts and they seldom go bad in the newer produced vehicles. Personally, I like 4 wheel drive better, but it is a lot more expensive to purchase and repair. We have both a AWD Mountaineer and a 4 WD Explorer. I prefer the 2 WD Mercedes to both of them. If it comes down to one of the Ford products, I always pick the Explorer..... Junk....

 

[OkeeDon]

DaveNay and Big Dog, my daughter has a Ford FreeStyle. It was the first one delivered at her dealership; had to be ordered, She went over to the coast to see and drive one when they first came out. She was thinking about a Saturn Relay because it's supposed to be cross-over between a mini-van and an SUV, but they took their good ol' time getting them to the dealers, and in the meantime, she spotted the FreeStyle on a TV ad and decided it looked real good. Her husband had an Expedition at the time and she knew she didn't want a big SUV. But, I had a WindStar at the time, and she was absolutely sure she didn't want a mini-van. She's a high school band director and her students think she's pretty cool, so she didn't want to be caught dead in a mini-van. The FreeStyle was perfect; the kids think it's the coolest Mom vehicle they've seen (she has 3 kids under 6 years old).

She's had it almost a year, now, and it's turning out to be a very good car. It's front wheel drive, of course, not much use for a 4WD car in Florida unless you're going down some of the sugar sand back roads, and her husband sold his Expedition and got a 4WD diesel F250 to handle that. She has had aboslutely no problems with it and it runs great. I believe she's getting somewhere around 26 mpg, I've heard her mention that number, but I don't know if that was highway or combination driving.

She and I just talked about it a couple of days ago; she would definitely buy it again and recommend it to anyone interested in that type of vehicle.

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

Real men have manual locking hubs, limited slip differentials (maybe a locker for the rock crawlers), 4WD and leaf suspension all round.

AWD is for the rest of you.

 

[OregonAlex]

You pick the tool for the right job. AWD has advantages over 4x4 and vs versa as I stated in my earlier post. IMHO, for a person looking for the best vehicle to get around in the winter time, with slick unexpected conditions, then AWD is going to be the winner. If a person looking to go off roading where lots of ground clearance is required, and they know they might only have 2 tires touching (one front and one back) for very uneven ground then 4x4 is going to be the winner.


btw, as stated in other posts our 2005 Subaru Legacy w/ 5 spd averages 30 mpg and AWD is FULL time always splitting power 50/50 front to back.
Not sure how popular they are in other regions of the country but in the Pacific Northwest they are VERY popular. They are everywhere, more so then any other AWD vehicle that I have seen. They kind of go hand in hand with the sandal community, I guess. Cost was around $22,500 MSRP for the wagon, $21500 MSPR for the sedan. Interior quality has changed dramatically from the past generation; now competing with Audi, BMW, and Volvo. I had an Audi A6 Wagon for 3 months in Germany and a Volvo V40 Wagon for 2 months in Sweden. This car's interior quality reminds me more of the Volvo but a little closer in size to the A6. Handling and ride is very neutral similiar to the A6. Safety closer to the Volvo. Front, side and curtain airbags are standard (8 bags total). 5 star safety rating. The perfect car for my wife who drives alot with the kids. We bought the car new in Sept of 2004 and she managed to put 38,000 miles on it already. No problems what so ever.

Check them out if you are looking for an AWD vehicle. They are very nice for the money and have great milage. 2006 changed a little, they now have 17" wheels standard. Mine has 16" which I perfer because I live off of a gravel county road. Consumer reports has recently rated Suburu as the most reliable brand (argueably I am sure), edging out Toyota and Honda.

photos of standard base model attached.

http://www.subaru.com/shop/model_consideration.jsp?model=LEGACY

 

[Junkman]

Nice looking interior. Does your wife also deliver mail?????

 

[Kubota King]

about 10 years ago I had a subaru XT 6. It was both Awd & 4 wd. It had a button that would engage the 4x4. I drove it in many storms. It was fairly good in the snow in Awd which was full time. A few times I did get stuck even after rocking back & forth but the second I hit the botton I pulled right out! I was told that the difference between Awd & 4 wd is that all wheel only spins one wheel at a time but has sensors that detect were the traction is needed most on the 4 tires & the one that needs the traction the most will spin. I was told it is very fast to switch to anouther tire if the sensors decide traction is needed in anouther tire instead. Now 4 wd has 2 tires moving at all times when engaged & is always one front & one back tire & always kiddy corner to each other. My old subaru definity had way more traction in 4 wheel drive.

 

[OregonAlex]

Nice looking interior. Does your wife also deliver mail?????

Junk,

not a photo of my wife actual car. ;-) However, funny you should say that.. the mail carriers around here actually drive these around here (very rural) to deliver mail with right hand steering like the one pictured. Some of these are the first generation Legacy from early 90's.

http://www.cars101.com/postlsub.html

I will have to ask how many miles are on them next time I see them. I will probably be blown away by the number they give me. Sometimes I look in the AutoTrader for fun to see what is the highest miles I can find on one of these things. 270,000-300,000 is not too uncommon.

 

[Big Dog]

DaveNay and Big Dog, my daughter has a Ford FreeStyle. It was the first one delivered at her dealership; had to be ordered, She went over to the coast to see and drive one when they first came out. She was thinking about a Saturn Relay because it's supposed to be cross-over between a mini-van and an SUV, but they took their good ol' time getting them to the dealers, and in the meantime, she spotted the FreeStyle on a TV ad and decided it looked real good. Her husband had an Expedition at the time and she knew she didn't want a big SUV. But, I had a WindStar at the time, and she was absolutely sure she didn't want a mini-van. She's a high school band director and her students think she's pretty cool, so she didn't want to be caught dead in a mini-van. The FreeStyle was perfect; the kids think it's the coolest Mom vehicle they've seen (she has 3 kids under 6 years old).

She's had it almost a year, now, and it's turning out to be a very good car. It's front wheel drive, of course, not much use for a 4WD car in Florida unless you're going down some of the sugar sand back roads, and her husband sold his Expedition and got a 4WD diesel F250 to handle that. She has had aboslutely no problems with it and it runs great. I believe she's getting somewhere around 26 mpg, I've heard her mention that number, but I don't know if that was highway or combination driving.

She and I just talked about it a couple of days ago; she would definitely buy it again and recommend it to anyone interested in that type of vehicle.

Thanks Don!

 

[DAP]

o man