Iraq .. Is it worth it ???

[BigAl]

Iraq . Just the word causes contorversy .

Did Bush jump the gun ? Did he deceive the US population and Congress to settle a personal score with Saddam ? Did he do it in a attemp to break OPECS rule over oil in the world .Did he do it to make Cheney richer by handing out unbid jobs to Haliburton ?

Is the price of our troops lives worth the outcome ? Its a civil war now . There does not seem to be much progress over there .

Bush blames congress . I blame Bush. Bush will not even listen to his own advisors on this, that he hired ,WTF . Why is he being so stubborn ???

I have never seen the country more divided in my life .And I am not talking Iraq , I am talking about the U.S. .

Democrats hate Republicans and vice versa. Why is it always a bad idea if it comes from the other party ???

Why is the news media not suppose to talk about Ben Laden and 911 anymore . I thought old George was going to smoke that boy "Out of his hole" ??? That was him on tv saying that ,was'nt it ??? Am I the only one that remebers 911 ??

I think he should have listened to his father more and read his father's book before going in so fast . Can he even read ??? Hmmmm???

I will get jumped on for this and I did not write it to stir the pot . My son was on the 1st drive into Iraq and I am damn proud of him and our troops .He was ordered in and he went and did his time .They are heros in my book .

How many more troops have to die so Bush can save face ??? Some say if we leave now ,we disgrace our fallen troops . I for one am tired of the bloodshed and will never forget our troops or the sacrifices they have made . Each and every one is in my prayers every night . I myself am a Republican of 36 years ,but this is the strangest and most pathetic president I have ever seen ,be it a republican or democrat .I am very sadden by that thought .

Anybody happen to know how many Iraqi citizens have been killed by those who strap bombs on themselves and kill Men,Women and Children just for the hell of it ???

Bush is suppose to be our leader . I wonder where he is headed ............

At this point I am so disgusted by this man that I can't even show him the proper respect of adding President to his name .

 

[REDDOGTWO]

How about pea brain Bush?

We were deceived into going into Iraq.

We should get out now before we have any more needless deaths. I have no problems with our troops, they are told to do a job and do it. Other than a few exceptions, the troops have done well over there.

I have said this before and will again. If we would have put half the effort we have in Iraq in trying to capture Bin Laden, we would have captured him already.

If Bush would be tried by an international court for the invasion of Iraq and the needless civilian deaths over there, he would meet the same fate as Saddam.

 

[thcri]

Iraq . Just the word causes contorversy .

Did Bush jump the gun ? Did he deceive the US population and Congress to settle a personal score with Saddam ?

Don't get me wrong here, but this comment of a personal score with Saddam, where did this come from? What dealings did Bush have with Saddam?

I am not happy with this war, I am not happy with Bush. Bush got information from others and reacted. Now he is getting information from others and is doing nothing. I think the republicans are wasting their time and money running for President because of Bush. I just would like to know why Bush put on the boxing gloves with Saddam. As far as WMD, I still think Saddam had them. We just didn't move fast enough to find them.


murph

 

[BigAl]

Don't get me wrong here, but this comment of a personal score with Saddam, where did this come from? What dealings did Bush have with Saddam?murph

Saddam attempted or intended to kill Bush Senior when a was president and a lot of folks said it was Bush Jr's. main reason for going after him .

Sorry ,I should have written that better .
Allen

 

[Doc]

I also believe it was a vendetta against Sadam. Was Bush influenced by Cheney and Rumsfield? I think so. But the man ran for and won the presidency. He is in charge and had to make the decision.
While they probably did have WMD .... we alone or with the little world support we had should never have gone in there. The lives lost and our economy screwed for years because of his decision to 'go it alone'.

We are not at war over there. We are acting as a police force. It is WRONG WRONG WRONG in my opinion. But, the dilemma now is that if we completely pull out we've totally screwed up the middle east.

Bush and company thought we could control the madness. Time has proven otherwise. I see no way out and no easy way for us or the world to have a positive outcome to this fiasco.

 

[Junkman]

................ As far as WMD, I still think Saddam had them. We just didn't move fast enough to find them.


murph

There is no way that there were any WMD, because if there were, we would have at least found traces of them. Saddam wanted us to believe that there were, so he could hold the world at bay. The sad part is that the country was better under the control of Saddam than it is not that he has been removed. We have removed the one obstacle that faced Iran from invading Iraq anytime in the future. I am not saying that Saddam was a good leader, but it isn't our place to decide who heads other countries of the world. If it were, we would be back in the 1950's when the US routinely injected assassinations into world politics. Bush Jr. is no different that LBJ. Both are from Texas, and both are/were mega maniac egotistical personalities that will never admit defeat during their presidencies, and only the next incoming president will be able to dig us out of this mess. As for him being charged by the World Court for what he has done, it is a very distinct possibility, and I for one, would say that he should. He has violated and lied to the American public and the world. The really sad part of all of this is that if anyone of us had written this on these forums 3 years ago, we would have been run off and tar 'n feathered.

 

[elsmitro]

My fellow Americans, I consider all of you that complain that President Bush lied to us, CRY BABIES! I guess the scholars that said the earth was flat were liars! The astronomers that reported seeing canals on Mars were liars! The President had the best intelligence that the world had to offer. And, every one of you was still complaining that his father didn’t finish the job in the first place. He said from the get go that this was not going to be easy and it was going to take a long time, but of course ‘no one’ claims to remember that; and they don’t remember what it felt like to have a backbone and stand up for something they believed in. I wonder if you even remember the sickness you felt when you first saw the towers fall and found out what really happened? Imagine now (if you can) what the backbone of our current president must be like, to stand against so many CRY BABIES that say he’s wrong and a liar. None of us could stand it. This administration changes policy in Iraq as much as they can to support the needs of the generals. How about you support the needs of OUR COUNTRY by getting a little stick-to-itiveness and support all of OUR COUNTRIES needs, not just the popular ones. Instead of constantly greasing the squeaky wheels we need to start replacing them before our great machine falls apart! If there is one thing I have learned from you all it’s that we are lucky to still be here after all the dumb shit many of our leaders have done. We can replace the word politician to “crook and liar” anytime; good thing many lawyers become politicians or we might get confused.

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

What do they say. Hindsight is 20/20. A lot of big comments from people that were more than likely in favor of the war a few years ago.

All this whining about the war and blaming Bush is a load of B.S. It doesn't address the current issue of how to get out of there with out leaving a bigger mess. I see value in discussing how to clean up the mess as quickly as possible (we made the mess - so we do have a responsibility to clean it up). Everything else is just a bunch of armchair quarterbacking.

I suspect if things were going well over there you would all be saying what a wonderful President he is.

 

[Doc]

My fellow Americans, I consider all of you that complain that President Bush lied to us, CRY BABIES!
..... The President had the best intelligence that the world had to offer. And, every one of you was still complaining that his father didn’t finish the job in the first place.

I consider you to have rose colored glasses. At least I can think for myself. Like George Tennet said in his book, the Bush administration was looking for a reason to go into Iraq. Bush IGNORED the best intelligence the world had to offer and he should be called on it. You can fool the people only so long, the truth will come out, as it has.

I never once said, he needed to finish what his father didn't finish. His father was protecting an ally. Bush attacked without UN support. His call. His screw up. Our kids and grand kids will be paying the bill for him ignoring our best intelligence.

Keep your blinders on buddy and keep repeating to yourself it's not Bush's fault ....maybe you'll believe it but I never will.

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

I consider you to have rose colored glasses. At least I can think for myself. Like George Tennet said in his book, the Bush administration was looking for a reason to go into Iraq. Bush IGNORED the best intelligence the world had to offer and he should be called on it. You can fool the people only so long, the truth will come out, as it has.

I never once said, he needed to finish what his father didn't finish. His father was protecting an ally. Bush attacked without UN support. His call. His screw up. Our kids and grand kids will be paying the bill for him ignoring our best intelligence.

Keep your blinders on buddy and keep repeating to yourself it's not Bush's fault ....maybe you'll believe it but I never will.

Uhhhh so why did "the people" vote him in a second time? If any of you voted for him then you are partly responsible.

Even this slow thinking Canuck knew that Bush was going to raise hell in Iraq if given the slightest opportunity.

Honestly, I believe this is a great example of stealth marketing. I'm sure the anti-war kooks have been putting there "Bush Lied" stickers all over the place combined with the bush lied rhetoric we are fed from the MSM and the subliminal message is starting to stick.

 

[elsmitro]

All this whining about the war and blaming Bush is a load of B.S. It doesn't address the current issue of how to get out of there with out leaving a bigger mess. I see value in discussing how to clean up the mess as quickly as possible (we made the mess - so we do have a responsibility to clean it up). Everything else is just a bunch of armchair quarterbacking.

Right on brother!

I suspect if things were going well over there you would all be saying what a wonderful President he is.

Nope, not enough at this point to appease the majority of the CRY BABIES! We would also have to have lower energy costs, puppies that don’t pee on the rug and a rainbow in every yard.

I never once said, he needed to finish what his father didn't finish. His father was protecting an ally. Bush attacked without UN support. His call. His screw up. Our kids and grand kids will be paying the bill for him ignoring our best intelligence.

If you never said it than your in an extreme minority. Are you sure your not suffering from selective memory? The only true ally we have in that part of the world is Israel. His father was protecting the price of oil every bit as much as everyone else has. That's the only reason anyone ever gave a damn about that place until now.

Keep your blinders on buddy and keep repeating to yourself it's not Bush's fault ....maybe you'll believe it but I never will.

It's called 20/20 vision buddy, you should try it some time.

 

[Doc]

Uhhhh so why did "the people" vote him in a second time? If any of you voted for him then you are partly responsible.

That is something I'll never understand. I've never voted for the man.

I think he ran a great campaign. His 'stay the course' retoric worked on the majority of our population. And the Dems played right along with Kerry as their candidate.

 

[bczoom]

I'll fast forward past the "should we have gone into Iraq" and focus on the current situation instead.

At this point, my main issue with Iraq and terrorism in general is why is the USA (and our President) catching all the flack?

Why hasn't the world population (moderate Muslim's in particular) stepped up to denounce these ongoing terrorist acts? Why are Iraqi's blaming us for all the killings when it's done by terrorists? Why hasn't the new Iraqi government and military stepped up to do the fighting? They want us out of their country but they don't have the balls themselves to do the fighting (be it political, military or otherwise).

If we were to leave Iraq and/or any other area where terrorism is occurring, would the terrorism stop? I keep hearing people say so but I don't believe it.

Saddam did have a tighter rule over the population of Iraq but he used very violent tactics that were in fact, terroristic in nature. The difference was he did it in relative privacy and it wasn't seen by the world until after his fall.

Not directly related to Iraq but on a related note, did anyone catch the new Hamas kids show? It's teaching kids how to hate and kill all non-Muslims. Do a google search for "Hamas Mickey Mouse" or for an example, click HERE

We (the non-Muslim) world population are under attack by Muslim extremists. Moderate Muslims can't or won't reign them in. Heck, the Muslims are attacking each other. They want to kill all non-Muslims and have world domination. So, what are we to do? Do we retreat and attempt an isolationist view and hope another 9/11 doesn't happen? Do we take the fight to them (e.g. Afghanistan and now, Iraq)?

 

[elsmitro]

I'll fast forward past the "should we have gone into Iraq" and focus on the current situation instead.

At this point, my main issue with Iraq and terrorism in general is why is the USA (and our President) catching all the flack?

Why hasn't the world population (moderate Muslim's in particular) stepped up to denounce these ongoing terrorist acts? Why are Iraqi's blaming us for all the killings when it's done by terrorists? Why hasn't the new Iraqi government and military stepped up to do the fighting? They want us out of their country but they don't have the balls themselves to do the fighting (be it political, military or otherwise).

Why didn't the other members of the UN stand up and fight? saddam repeatedly violated the same seventeen United Nations Security Council Resolutions (UNSCRs) that the other members of the UN agreed to uphold. So do we have to fit the bill for the majority of the $ and blood it's taking? Because the other members are worthless cowards!

Not directly related to Iraq but on a related note, did anyone catch the new Hamas kids show? It's teaching kids how to hate and kill all non-Muslims. Do a google search for "Hamas Mickey Mouse" or for an example, click HERE.

That show may be new but they have been using TV programs for children to teach hate for Isreal and us for a long time.

We (the non-Muslim) world population are under attack by Muslim extremists. Moderate Muslims can't or won't reign them in. Heck, the Muslims are attacking each other. They want to kill all non-Muslims and have world domination. So, what are we to do? Do we retreat and attempt an isolationist view and hope another 9/11 doesn't happen? Do we take the fight to them (e.g. Afghanistan and now, Iraq)?

The ‘moderate’ muslims have actually been gaining benefits because of the actions of the extremists, such as publicly funded schools, and foot baths at airports. So they are probably going to ride it out for all they can… You can thank the PC Police (cowards) for that!

 

[bczoom]

You've elaborated on my points.

Basically, the people with balls are doing the work and catching the flack for it. If the other 95% of those potentially (or actually) being targeted by these terrorists would join us in a more unified front, we have a better chance.

Being as this is an international forum, I won't mention specific governments or countries... I'll just 2nd your opinion about the UN being worthless.

 

[BigAl]

Why hasn't the world population (moderate Muslim's in particular) stepped up to denounce these ongoing terrorist acts? Why are Iraqi's blaming us for all the killings when it's done by terrorists? Why hasn't the new Iraqi government and military stepped up to do the fighting? They want us out of their country but they don't have the balls themselves to do the fighting (be it political, military or otherwise).

Not directly related to Iraq but on a related note, did anyone catch the new Hamas kids show? It's teaching kids how to hate and kill all non-Muslims. Do a google search for "Hamas Mickey Mouse" or for an example, click HERE

We (the non-Muslim) world population are under attack by Muslim extremists. Moderate Muslims can't or won't reign them in. Heck, the Muslims are attacking each other. They want to kill all non-Muslims and have world domination. So, what are we to do? Do we retreat and attempt an isolationist view and hope another 9/11 doesn't happen? Do we take the fight to them (e.g. Afghanistan and now, Iraq)?

I agree 100%
The only reason they ever stop fighting each other is to stop long enough to kill US and British troops .
How in the hell can they(terrorist) dig a hole the size of a dump truck ,fill it with TNT and no one(Iraqi's) sees or reports it ??? Why are we busting our ass and getting killed for a bunch of People that won't even help themshelves?
I did not consider myself a cry baby and thought we moved way to fast in going into Iraq . A lot of countries in the UN agreed with me . I certainly for the first time in my life did not vote republican or for the man the second time around . Once is more than enough .The good news is I did not like Clinton either .

Bush Jr comes across as a arrogant piss poor public speaker who attempts to bully people and countries in every way . I'm Texan and I have seen that limited mentality from some Texans before . MY brother even said he must be a good president because he is from Texas.... ?????? I guess that explains everything .
I have never seen a graduate come out of a Ivy league college with the limited knowledge he seems to possess . I guess daddy's money made a world of difference in buying him a degree because there is no way in hell he could stay focused long enough to earn it on his own .
I think the UN is pretty much a joke and really does very little . They seem to have there pet projects . If the US pulled out the UN would go the way of the "League of Nations" .
Remember back in the 1920's and 30's when we basically stayed out of other countries problems ?? I wonder what would happen if we banded together and did that again . These Idiot countries would "cease to exist".
Without all our money and aid we pour into them .They would dry up and blow away . Problem solved . The unhappy peasants could and would then just revolt ,blame their leader , and deport him or throw him in jail forever .
It will never happen and the US seems to have a short memory in helping countries that turn and crap on us . The exception is Cuba and that is because they have nothing we want .... at the moment .

 

[elsmitro]

Prince of Peace

ALL the members of the UN knew what this line of the final resoultion ment: "the Security Council has repeatedly warned Iraq and that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations." They signed off on it and should either put up or be forced out of the UN.

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

Remember back in the 1920's and 30's when we basically stayed out of other countries problems ?? I wonder what would happen if we banded together and did that again . These Idiot countries would "cease to exist".

In the 1920's and 30's those countries were largely controlled by colonial powers (Britain, France, etc). It's taken 50-60 years for the resentment and hatred of the colonial powers to be shifted to the U.S. The U.S. plays the colonial power role through it's economic development programs and it's military position - not so much through direct colonization.

The fall of the colonial system is largely what has caused this proggressive downward spiral.

IMO, it's largely a "cultural" issue. Our culture versus theirs. If we want to be isolationist then we need to realize that our economy will need to slow down and we will not be as wealthy as we now are. No tractors and snowcats for joe average, no multiple homes and vacation homes, just a nice modest living.

The rest of the world will leave us alone if we pull our economic and military interests out their regions. However, this opens up a whole different can of worms as countries like China and Russia would seek to fill the void.

No simple answers. Now can we stop whining about Bush and throwing petty little insults that serve no purpose? Personally, I think it is shameful and small minded to think that the President alone is responsible for the mess. But that is what our society wants isn't it. Take no responsibility and find a scape goat for all our problems. Pretty weak.

 

[BigAl]

No simple answers. Now can we stop whining about Bush and throwing petty little insults that serve no purpose? Personally, I think it is shameful and small minded to think that the President alone is responsible for the mess. But that is what our society wants isn't it. Take no responsibility and find a scape goat for all our problems. Pretty weak.

Very good points ,you have made .

As far as whining and insults ,that was not my intention . Those remarks I made were my own personal feelings and I can respect any remarks you made . I may not always agree with all of them but as long as we can be civil , I will always respect your right to voice your opinion .

I just hope the next 18 months pass quickly . I certainly do not know which party will gain the presidencey but I am ready for a fresh wind in the White House .
Got to go pressure wash the old house . Ill check in later tonight to read the replies.
Allen

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

I'd like to also suggest South Korea as an example. It's taken around 50 years for the US to draw down it's forces there and there are still tons of US forces there.

Why do people think any other invasion and occupation type war is going to take any less than 50 years?

Honestly, perhaps we should just pull-out of Iraq. It might go through a Vietnam type era where there is great poverty and lots of refugees but eventually it might find a way to better itself.

I think a long pro-longed occupation of Iraq is required if you want to coddle it back to maturity. The other plan is to kick it out and let it fend for itself. Just like teenagers. Some need to get the rough years out of their system before they become responsible citizens. Of course, some of those also end up in prison for life.

 

[Junkman]

three atomic bombs will solve all the problems in Iraq. Drop one on Iran and one on North Korea, and all the problems are solved for another 25 - 30 years.

 

[bczoom]

three atomic bombs will solve all the problems in Iraq. Drop one on Iran and one on North Korea

Where does the 3rd go? Baghdad or just a reserve for whomever else wants to rattle the international community?

 

[Junkman]

I meant to say "also" .... Hell, since we have so many that we purchased from the Russians, then why not use some of those. I hear that heat and sand make glass....

 

[JimR]

three atomic bombs will solve all the problems in Iraq. Drop one on Iran and one on North Korea, and all the problems are solved for another 25 - 30 years.

I AGREE WITH JUNKMAN 100%