• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

Thoughts on healthcare bill

jpr62902 said:
K, your sarcasm is well received.

But still misplaced. Next time, direct it at those who are too stupid to grasp your simplistic, ironic comments.

Really? Doctors andor surgeons sweeping floors? Is that a reasonable interpretation? Nope. But given your prior posts here, not unanticipated.

I live in a community where the hospital care is top notch. It wasn't 2 weeks prior that I took my brother home from a local hospital and he received the BEST of care. And btw, it was funded by his own (independent contractor) health insurance premiums. AND the admission was for an ailment that has plagued him for 30 years, so don't give me the pre-existing routine.
Click to expand...

A typical Ad Hominem. You’ve not failed to disappoint since I expected no less.

For all your verbosity, you have yet to even come close to addressing the points I bring up in an intelligible manner.

One. Last. Time.

Is it ok with you to be charged $80 to $100 for a simple aspirin or Tylenol?

Is it ok with you to be charged $700 dollars to sit in a Spartan room as you wait on the free lance doctor to see you?

Are you ok with “Hospitals” padding the bill with BS charges that have nothing to do with your life saving care?

This bloat is paid by major medical insurance (which I have) and by free state funded Medicaid. But what about the in-betweens that don’t have major medical and work too hard and make “just enough” money to not qualify for Medicaid.

We’ve got a serious hole in our current state of operations, and it’s being ignored and fostered by idiots that think it’s ok to spend 80 for a Tylenol, 700 for a room, and 3,000 for Lab Time when only big business or Medicaid can front it. What about the honest and hard working Joes faced with buying medical coverage. Mine is 300 per month, a bit more when you add dental and eye. BUT, that is company discount…….that same paper policy costs 1,200 for the average Joe on the street.

Why do you think it is so expensive?

Because those stupid Hotels (oh, uh….Hospitals) are charging 80 for Tylenol and 700 for 8 hours in a room.

Not to mention malpractice insurance, but that is another discussion entirely.

You want reform?

Then squash the money mongers that are dripping us dry!

And seriously, work on your debate. Making a post with a few big words while totally ignoring EVERY SINGLE challenge and not addressing ANY suggested point isn’t a winning argument. It simply means you turned a blind eye for some reason and resorted to Ad Hominems.
 
joec said:
So pre existing is a routine for you. If what you say is true then are are really lucky. To be honest though I'm beginning to think you are the one yanking chains here not us. No one I have ever spoke to including my son who is a doctor now in private practice but several years in Charlotte Presbyterian Hospital ER would think he needed high boots based on some of the stuff you have posted. Talk about BS you need to convince me man.
Click to expand...

WTF are "high boots"?

Really joec? You come here talking about not having health insurance for 20 years and bitching about how our current healthcare system is crap?

And I'm the one shoveling BS?

Wrong.

Is my brother's health insurance expensive? Yup. Does he pay the premiums? Yup. And as an independent contractor no less.

You really need to quit whining about health insurance. You haven't paid for it in 20 years and my brother has a much tougher path, yet he still seems to make his payments ....
 
jpr62902 said:
WTF are "high boots"?

Really joec? You come here talking about not having health insurance for 20 years and bitching about how our current healthcare system is crap?

And I'm the one shoveling BS?

Wrong.

Is my brother's health insurance expensive? Yup. Does he pay the premiums? Yup. And as an independent contractor no less.

You really need to quit whining about health insurance. You haven't paid for it in 20 years and my brother has a much tougher path, yet he still seems to make his payments ....
Click to expand...

Wow I'm not bitching that I have a bad health care system, I don't have one period not due to lack of funds or willingness to buy. My wife is on Medicaid I'm not due so what do I care then, I don't.

I am not whining about my insurance in less than 2 years I will be on Medicare and any plan that regardless passes won't effect me either way. I was using myself as an example and nothing more as I would like to see my grandkids have real health insurance and grow up in a country that still exists.

Now you don't know jack sh#t about me so don't presume to know what my life or circumstances are. As for what your brother pays I would probably be willing to pay it too, if they would sell it to me and back it up instead of taking my money until I needed it. If that is working for you then more power but a lot of people I've meet in the last few years are more like me with you actually being the exception to the rule. And the way I've seen people treated by the current health care system it is crap but if true you are the exception which I'm sure there might be one or two.
 
joec said:
Wow I'm not bitching that I have a bad health care system, I don't have one period not due to lack of funds or willingness to buy. My wife is on Medicaid I'm not due to the fact I can't buy it due to you BS pre existing conditions.

I am not whining about my insurance in less than 2 years I will be on Medicare and any plan that regardless passes won't effect me either way. I was using myself as an example and nothing more as I would like to see my grandkids have real health insurance and grow up in a country that still exists.

Now you don't know jack sh#t about me so don't presume to know what my life or circumstances are. As for what your brother pays I would probably be willing to pay it too, if they would sell it to me and back it up instead of taking my money until I needed it. If that is working for you then more power but a lot of people I've meet in the last few years are more like me with you actually being the exception to the rule. And the way I've seen people treated by the current health care system it is crap but if true you are the exception which I'm sure there might be one or two.
Click to expand...

Yes, I don't know jack shyte about you, but you have posted that you haven't paid health insurance premiums in 20 years ....

And your pre-existing conditions are not my "BS" pre-existing conditions ..
 
You are the one that said pre existing conditions are a routine not me. Either your opinion isn't that important to me so have a good life.
 
Argumentum ad hominem is the logical fallacy of attempting to undermine a speaker's argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the argument.

Just in case you were wondering.
 
Just a random thought .... 1,200 X 12 = 14,400 annual 14,400 X 20 = 288,000 wow that is six figures worth of savings on premiums that can be put out for med bills. Just a thought.
 
mak2 said:
Argumentum ad hominem is the logical fallacy of attempting to undermine a speaker's argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the argument.

Just in case you were wondering.
Click to expand...


Exactly. Such as a poster saying:
Next time, direct it at those who are too stupid to grasp your simplistic, ironic comments.
Click to expand...
A clear attack that does not address the argument at hand. The focal point of that statement is against the person and not the argument.


Chetdb said:
Just a random thought .... 1,200 X 12 = 14,400 annual 14,400 X 20 = 288,000 wow that is six figures worth of savings on premiums that can be put out for med bills. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with jpr62902’s idea that all you need do is cut out your cable TV, and other luxuries to save enough money to pay for medical care.

Further, the policy I have is worth 1,200 if you bought it directly. I don’t. My employer pays the brunt of it, and I currently pay 300 per month. I’ve been with the company for 15 years, and when I started I was only paying 98 per month for coverage.

If I simply saved those premiums over the years and didn’t have insurance, I’d have saved about 36,000 in my 15 years of employment.

In that time, I’ve been in accidents and my wife had breast cancer. One of my accidents (a guy ran a stop sign and T-Boned me) costs 42,000 total. Eventually, the other guy’s insurance covered most of it (6 months later) but I still had to pay the bills up front. The ambulance ride alone was 650.

My wife’s breast cancer racked up bills of over $227,000.

Sorry, but saving up my premiums or cutting out cable TV doesn’t even come close to paying the bills we’ve encountered in Health Care these past 15 years.

I’m of the opinion that health care providers such as Hospitals have bloated the costs in order to milk as much from insurance as possible. The extra they make on a the patients with insurance puts money in their pockets and helps to offset the cost of those without insurance.

I don’t think it’s right to be charged 80 to 100 dollars for Tylenol.

I don’t think it’s right to be charged 650 or more a night for a room.

I don’t know what kind of cable TV, cell-phone, or food jpr62902 is enjoying, but if I cut all that out, it would take 4 months to save enough money for ONE night in the Hospital.....and that's just the room and doesn't include what the medical staff would bill me for treatment.:hammer:
 
I the adjudicator rule that you are Fruit tingled (as per request that I am not to use everyday language ) JPR, your argument just does not stack up.

Bloody holier than thou forums!
 
jpr62902 said:
Alernatively, an employed person could save some $$ and set it aside. You know, in case of financial emergency? If you're not making enough to do that, how about cutting back on the expenses? Cable tv, cell phones, expensive food items, car payments beyond what one can truly afford, et al., are all bills we can trim if our income doesn't allow us to set money aside for financially lean times.

This is not a difficult concept to grasp, but so many folks neglect to mention it.
Click to expand...

Really JPR statements like this shows how far you are removed from reality!
 
I agree Vin....in a dream world....surely one would have the ability to save up $$$ for a rainy day in case a health emergency arrises and the hospital sends you a bill for $4000.00 to pull out a sliver.

JPR....I don't know what world you live in but this is reality. I urge you to think about the single mother out there working 2 part time jobs just to keep a roof over her and her childrens heads and try to scrape up enough money to put food on the table. Now, do you honestly think that in your little dream world full of flowery fields and Barry White music playing, that single mother working two part time jobs to take care of her children could honestly afford health insurance? Wake up! This is the real world.

All I can say is I'm awefull glad I live in Canada and don't have to worry about how I'll feed my children for the next 5 yrs if one of us should become ill and require hospitalization. Before you guys jump down on me about the level of care and longer waiting times in Canada's health care system, I know it isn't a perfect system. I just like the fact that I don't have worry about how I'm going to pay for a visit to the emerg department.

Before you decide to go any further JPR, let me tell you a little story.....

My brother is currently in the same boat as %60 of the population where I live. He had a good paying job, a wife, 5 kids, nice house, had savings in the bank etc... Things were good. Then, the US started putting lumber tarriffs on lumber imported from Canada. Like 60% of the population here, he worked in the forest industry. The US imposed tarriffs forced the mills to shut down one by one. Soon, 60% of the population is out of work. To make things worse, the crooked a-hole that owns 3 out of 4 mills in our town didn't pay the workers/independant contractors for 3 months. Allot of the independant truckers had to declare bankruptsy. My brother was not immune to that. Slowly but surely, all his savings dried up. He hasn't done it yet but after working 20 hrs a day 6 days a week to pull what works out to be around $14 an hour with a wife at home and 5 kids to feed and a house to pay for, do you honestly think that in your perfect little world, he can afford the premiums it would cost him to pay for health insurance? Now consider this. My brother's a truck driver gone from monday to friday sleeping in his truck out in the bush trying to push to get that extra load into the mill so that he might actually be able to make his house payment this month on time when he gets a call saying that his wife is was admitted into the hospital for observations because she slipped on some ice and fell and cracked her head open. No-one is home now to watch the 5 kids. My brother now has to hurry home, find a sitter to watch the kids, and rush up to the hospital to be with his wife. If he misses 2 days work to be with his wife in the hospital, he's personally lost $400 in wages and his transport has lost $3000 in wages. He obviously can't afford the premiums that it would cost for health care. So now, instead of being out $3400 for two days, you want him to be out $15000.00.

Time to take the rose colored glasses off. Wake up!!! This is the real world buddy. Not everyone's fortunate enough to be pulling $150,000 a year. Not everyone can afford the premiums for healthcare insurance.:hammer::hammer:
 
I didn't say save money to pay for healthcare. I said have money set aside to pay health insurance premiums in the event you lose your job. Please read again and think before you post.
 
jpr62902 said:
I didn't say save money to pay for healthcare. I said have money set aside to pay health insurance premiums in the event you lose your job. Please read again and think before you post.
Click to expand...
That's precisely how I read you all along Jim.
I think too many had their hackles up last night to actually read what you were saying.
Anyway...
 
jpr62902 said:
I didn't say save money to pay for healthcare. I said have money set aside to pay health insurance premiums in the event you lose your job. Please read again and think before you post.
Click to expand...

Really? Guess I don’t have the same mastery over the English language as you do.

jpr62902 said:
Alernatively, an employed person could save some $$ and set it aside. You know, in case of financial emergency? If you're not making enough to do that, how about cutting back on the expenses? Cable tv, cell phones, expensive food items, car payments beyond what one can truly afford, et al., are all bills we can trim if our income doesn't allow us to set money aside for financially lean times.
Click to expand...
I’m not seeing where you said to set money aside to pay insurance premiums? You said “financial emergency”……emergency, as in something that just popped up out of the blue and is not a recurring thing happening every month such as an Insurance Premium? :ermm:
 
It's fine to say put money aside to pay for health care premiums in the event you lose your job. That might work in a perfect world but in reality, when it push comes to shove and you're down to your last penny and all your life savings are gone, are you honestly gonna tell me you'd choose paying for healthcare over providing the basic needs for your family such as food, clothing, shelter? My story wasn't jsut an example. It's what is actually happening were I live to 60% of the population. Now just imagine if this were the good ole USA pay as you go system. Where would my brother be? Bankrupt because of a few bandages on his wife's head?
 
Well the majority of people in the US would be homeless in 3 months if they lost there jobs. I would also guess the only reason it would be 3 months is the laws say you have to be behind x number of days before you can be evicted. You only have to be 45 days past due for me to sell the goods you store in one of my storage spaces though that like any rental property is a state to state thing. The average US savings rate is up to a whopping 5% of income.
 
If this health bill is passed as it is I personally think a lot of people will lose their jobs. JMO
 
jpr62902 said:
I didn't say save money to pay for healthcare. I said have money set aside to pay health insurance premiums in the event you lose your job. Please read again and think before you post.
Click to expand...

You're still dreaming mate, most folks struggle to live week to week let alone put anything away.
 
joec said:
I don't follow the reasoning on this statement, please expand on why that would occur.
Click to expand...


Because I believe business's will be hit with a lot of the costs for this program. With the economy the way it is they will have no choice but to lay people off. JMO that is all. Discussed also at many morning coffee tables with other businesses.
 
daedong said:
Utter BS, Is unemployment any worse in more civilized nations?
Click to expand...


Vin,

Seriously I think your drinking. What does unemployment have to do with it. Business' can only afford so much overhead right now. If you hit them with anymore expense they will be forced to lay people off. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out. You don't have money you start by cutting the what you can, and that is people. Rent, utilities etc is much tougher to cut in a short term basis.
 
joec said:
I don't follow the reasoning on this statement, please expand on why that would occur.
Click to expand...

daedong said:
Utter BS, Is unemployment any worse in more civilized nations?
Click to expand...


Joe,

Did you not say in an earlier thread that you can not afford to hire another employee because you would have to pay for their health insurance and even in part you can even afford it yourself?? What is the difference with any other business out there?
 
thcri said:
Vin,

Seriously I think your drinking. What does unemployment have to do with it. Business' can only afford so much overhead right now. If you hit them with anymore expense they will be forced to lay people off. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out. You don't have money you start by cutting the what you can, and that is people. Rent, utilities etc is much tougher to cut in a short term basis.
Click to expand...


WTF have you been drinking, losing jobs has much to do with unemployment.

The fact of the matter is, countries with less wealth than the US can provide health care for all citizens, so what makes you think America is so special that it can't afford to cover it's citizens?
 
Vin,

My original comment was the jobs could be lost due to the health care bill. Yes unemployment will go up that is a no brainer. But how is health care going to be such a good thing when people lose their jobs over it?
 
thcri said:
Vin,

My original comment was the jobs could be lost due to the health care bill. Yes unemployment will go up that is a no brainer. But how is health care going to be such a good thing when people lose their jobs over it?
Click to expand...

Jobs are not lost in other nations because of civilized health care, so what makes America so special that it will lose jobs having cover for all. You actually spend now zillions more per capita than other nations, Why because your system is FRUIT TINGLED (some how that loses something WTF)
 
daedong said:
Jobs are not lost in other nations because of civilized health care, so what makes America so special that it will lose jobs having cover for all. You actually spend now zillions more per capita than other nations, Why because your system is FRUIT TINGLED (some how that loses something WTF)
Click to expand...

True! I haven't noticed any job losses up here due to our health care system. And, if I recall, there were stats posted somewhere here that show Canadians on average have a longer lifespan than Americans. I could be wrong though.
 
They just raised my supplemental Medicare insurance twenty five bucks a month.
I’m just about to say something bad about the new guy.
This is called taking the old people’s money and paying for some slobs insurance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top