Where to get new track bands and parts for Bombardier?

[Borg]

I am looking to source parts for the new to me 1971 Bombardier SV200 SkiDozer. Below is some specific info and Bombardier part numbers that will help me build a new track. (Or buy a track assembly if I can find one.) Overall track on each side is 29 3/6" inches and grousers are spaced 3 3/4" apart. There are:

• 61 grousers (part 600-0045 which I'm told was superseded by part 600-0083) on each side for a total quantity of 122. I have a few different styles of grousers but all seem to work.

• Tire guides are bolted on the backside of the grousers and are part 600-0043 for a total quantity of 244.

• There are 2 track bands on each which have a width of 12 1/6" each, part 600-0050, total of 4.

I have found a few possibilities but the cost so far is more than the machine is worth in total. There must be an aftermarket manufacturer for these items? Or perhaps I have to source the track bands from a conveyor belt company and use the old grousers and guides, plus keep a dozen of each on hand to keep replacing them over the years. Many look pretty good still.

Thank you.

 

[sheep_mtn]

You can custom order the belting from Fall Line. Others have used various belting/conveyor companies. Unfortunately new tracks are probably the single biggest replacement cost on the machine. If you have some serviceable components, I would use them as long as possible.

Ski Industry - Snowcat Maintenance - Snowcat Track Belting - Page 1 - FallLine.com

www.fallline.com

 

[Borg]

Thank you, that is good advice. Also, I am talking to Fall Line and they've been quite responsive but their pattern for an SV-200 has grousers spaced at 3.875" inches and I think it should be 3.75 based upon my measurements and the attached documentation with hand written notes from Prinoth. So I'm hesitant about measuring myself and trying to sort this fine, but important detail out. I would need to create a new pattern for them to use. Has anyone else ran into this discrepancy? I assume exactness is a requirement here. Fall Line cannot source the grousers and track guides. I have one other source so far but the cost can't be justified. Though I am understanding this more from sheep_mtn's comment this is the largest potential cost.

 

[Blackfoot Tucker]

I've not dealt with Fall Line, though I recall forum member Archmage had a bad experience with them.

I have bought belting from Minnesota Outdoors and the experience was fantastic: great quality belting, reasonably priced and delivered on time. Unfortunately, Brad, the owner of the company, passed away recently and I don't know the current status of their belt business. But definitely worth giving them a call, in my opinion.

 

[Cidertom]

"pattern for an SV-200 has grousers spaced at 3.875" inches and I think it should be 3.75 based upon my measurements and the attached documentation with hand written notes from Prinoth."

0.1 Inch is not huge, nor is it worth ignoring. However, if they have been producing with that spacing and the complaints aren't happening then it should be OK. I got my belting for my ST-4 from Minnesota Outdoors as well. I punched it myself ~1000 holes. I made a aluminum template and used an air drill with a rotary punch. got it done in a day. If you want to source belting yourself: Temperature ratings , power transfer, and bend radius are the key. Many conveyor places can custom slit the small amount of belting we need cheaply, if they stock it. I want to say Python was one and Dunlop makes one. Yes you can use "generic belting" but understand that the service life may not be what you are expecting. Cold does bad things to the covering on belts unless they are made for it. Thicker may not be bettter as it will take more power (hp) to move the belt itself.

 

[sheep_mtn]

The belting could stretch over time - in your case 50 years if your belting is original. This might cause the grouser spacing to be different than factory fresh. But it's interesting to note that your measurements are actually less than what Fall Line has by 0.125". Multiply that by 61 grousers and you have a difference in track length of 7-1/2", which is over 3" of tensioner adjustment. Maybe check your track tensioners and see how much room is left? If you don't have much room left on your tensioners, 3.875" spacing isn't going to help matters.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

As mentioned....The belting does stretch......

If your belts are complete you definitely ha\ve things to work with.

What sort of shape are the track drive sprockets in ?????
If the sprockets are in decent shape....measure the pitch....Either tip to tip or at the root of the teeth.

This dimension is what dictates the spacing on the grousers....

No different than a roller chain, the track grousers have to fit the pitch of the sprockets....

If the sprockets are badly worn then it gets iffy trying to measure.

AS far as belts go...
Cut a belt so you can get a really good look at the "Core" count the number of plies of material in them.
3 ply is common

Measure the overall thickness from outside to inside.
The outer rubber cover is "usually" thicker than the inner cover

The piccy shows a 3 ply belt (1/2") 3/16" outer cover and 1/16" inner cover.

The 3/16 side gives good wear characteristics.
The core plies can by nylon, or other materials such as polyester...

Nylon plies are good

A 3/8" thick belt with 3 nylon plies should be fine

I would not be real keen on using "Used" conveyor belting. Some folks have done this....Only caveat is the condition of the material when you get it.....Building tracks is a big job.....You do not want to do it twice due to junk materials.


Belting is designed for what load it is going to be handling.......
Tensile strength
Belting is also rated for what it is doing... Abrasion resistance is the biggy for a cat.
Belting is also rated for fire resistance (Probably not a big deal on a snow cat)
Static electricity carrying ability...(Not an issue)

This past summer I spent a fair amount of time digging into belting information and what is available....

MY OPINION
Belts used on snow cats are NOT special materials, but carefully selected from major manufactures offerings based on the loading and such.

After discussing this subject with several belting suppliers I was able to find out that "Snow cat special" is pretty much a story to sell belting.....Manufactures generally do not divulge their clients.

Locally I was able to find one retired salesman who mentioned that they sold belts cut to length for several of the ski resort cat shops.....

Cut to length and width and the shops use their own tooling to (Punch/drill) locate the bolt holes.....

This subject has been covered many times......

My suggestion..
Get with a belting supplier and duplicate the material you have.......Construct a fixture to locate and drill the bolt holes ACCURATELY .....
Use a nylon ply belting......

Track belting is not rocket science

Note
This belting came off of my 2100 Thiokol.
The track had likely been rebuilt many times....hard to say exactly who's belting this is.

It is a 3 ply 3/16" top cover and 1/16" bottom cover........But these tracks had been used hard...No sign of tearing at the hinge bolt holes......They were just heavily cracked due to UV and such...just like tires....they have a life span.....
Leaving the cat parked on dirt and in the wet or a lot of UV exposure during the off season takes a toll on them.

Check this out https://www.apache-inc.com/CMS/apac...t&documentId=CE8E28E4C976D4D186257FA40061C279

Hope this helps.....

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Here is a link to an older thread on this very subject......

Track belting

I think it would be great if we all pooled our knowledge and connections on replacement belting sources on here. I have worked at ski areas off and on for many years as a mechanic on groomers,I am well aware of petersons,falline,hanshall etc. But there has to be a more economical way of...

www.forumsforums.com

This subject has been beat to death.....many times.

I agree with the #1 post.....Crazy stupid cost to replace the belts.

The fella I spoke with mentioned the NON DISCLOSURE thing as well.

IF THIS STUFF WAS INDEED "SPECIAL PROPRIETARY MATERIALS" the hush hush BS would not be an issue....
Do some "Gum Shoe" detective work on your computer and find a belting outfit close to you and go see them.

DO NOT TELL THEM YOU ARE WORKING ON A SNOW CAT.....Better to say....MATERIAL TRANSPORT....ROCK

Hand them a sample....go from there.......use a chunk that does not have grouser indents in it....just a clean piece

You never know who you are dealing with....Be nice, polite and act like you know exactly what you are doing....
Measure the track sprocket root diameter and the road wheel/tire diameter.
The sales person could well ask you the diameter of the drive/idler pulley.....have the numbers in your head....
Belts have a minimum diameter that they can be wrapped around...You very well can be asked this stuff...
Check out the various outfits online that mfg and sell belting to industry....

Get familiar with the terms and such so you can converse with the sales people.....You may not be asked any leading questions....then again...YA NEVER KNOW...

If you want to step up and pay the huge cost....The big boys that sell SNOW CAT belts can serve your needs.
Good hunting......

 

[Snowy Rivers]

To layout and drill the holes.

An aluminum sheet the same width as the track belt....about 4 feet long (To suit)
Lay out the holes exactly where they need to be and drill a 3/16" pilot hole at each location on your fixture.
Always start from a common datum point.....do the math and make each location exact.....YOU DO NOT WANT AN ACCUMULATIVE ERROR TO GET STARTED.

Index your jig to continue the entire length of the belt AND DRILL THE PILOT HOLES IN THE BELT
Move the jig and index it into your last hole and continue...

Drill the holes out to size using a "Brad point" drill.....

Remember...you are making a chain....and the pitch needs to be accurate.....OR IF IT IS NOT...THE TRACKS WILL CLIMB IN THE SPROCKET TEETH.....

 

[300 H and H]

Good conversations about belting.

When I got my Snow Trac it had been retracked several years before.
The thing everyone notices is the outside "belt" is fabric. These tracks have about 600 hours over 12 years now on them...
I have no idea what the belting is, as it was done by a former owner. He is good friends with Lydon S. and this machine was at Lydon's a lot.

The thing that occurred to me after looking at probably 75 machines to date is the outer rubber layer is the first thing to crack open. This is because the outer belt is in tension as it rolls around the wheels. The inner belt is experiencing just the opposite, as it is being compressed as it rolls around the wheels. Easy to see when you think about it. Rubber stands compression quite well but is weaker when in tensional stress. Fabric (maybe nylon/polyester?) on the other hand is made to be in tension, and seems to work well as an outer ply... I see no cracking what so ever on either side of my track belting. My machine sits inside on concrete when not being used. On dirt, the fabric might not last long, but I do not know...

Maybe some one who knows more than I do about belting can explain why some one would put a fabric layer to the outside of the tracks..

Sorry for the thread "drift" here....

 

[Snowy Rivers]

No drift....This material is all good stuff for anyone thinking about the issue.

The rubber deteriorates over time just like tires....The bands on my used tracks are all cracked to rat crap.....No way to know how old the stuff is....

Time on the belting is the big reason NOT to start with used conveyor belting.....May be stretched a bunch, may be perfectly fine.

After spending a lot of time gathering info it became clear that there is far too much "Mystery" being cranked into these simple strips of reinforced rubber.....Special this or that.....

I for one do not have any issue with somebody offering a product or services at a reasonable price....Where I take issue is when the BS starts getting laid on by the 5 gallon bucket and a trowel...

Far too many of us simply do not have the resources to afford the big $$$$$$$ for SPECIAL ANYTHING.
And when the story has layers of BS added...IT just spoils the fun.......

 

[vintagebike]

Maybe we should be exploring using the highly engineered snow machine track belting systems-strung together and connected side to side? Lots of smart folks on this site.😉

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Sounds like a plan.....

 

[d2doug]

My cat was home built in 1980. I am running three foot wide tracks, also home built with 14" wide belts. They are 1/2", 3 ply rock quarry grade with the 3/16"and 1/16" covers on home built grousers of a 60's Thiokol design. I have enjoyed this machine for many winters with no track issues at all. I am also fortunate enough to have always had a covered area to keep the sun off of it as well. As of now, the belts look really great with no cracks or tears . I purchased the belting at California Industrial Rubber , Fresno, Ca.