Ram Ranger 360

[300 H and H]

Our Snowmobile club has been offered one to use that is in near new condition....IF we can fix hydrolic oil heating problems it has. Should we run or walk away from this one....Comments, opinions and experiances welcome!

The club that has it estimates it would take $22K to solve it's issues

Best regards, Kirk

I would gladly post up pics if some one can tell me how get them from my e mail to this forum...

 

[300 H and H]

The Ram Ranger is a Diesel powered snow cat that looks very much like a Ski Dozer. Ram, it's maker is no longer in business. Fully hydrostatic with electric/hydrolic controls on one stick. Appears to be as new. It has one piece camoplast rubber tracks. Still trying to figure out a way to get the pics here from my e mail......

Thanks, Kirk

 

[muleman]

Right click on the pic and save as with a filename you give it on your desktop. When you post here just click on the paper clip next to the smilie and browse to your desktop. Click on the file you created and upload to here. If you type at least 2 letters of text that is all you need to post it.

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

Kirk i will need some pics of the hydraulic system and possibly some history on the rig oil over heating, if every thing is as origional is usualy caused by a restriction, and with an ir thermometer can be found quickly if the thing has had the problem since new than some changes may have to be made your hyraulic oil works just like ac when the fluid is gcompressed it gets hot and than turns cooler on the return could be a whole host of other things but if the estimate is 22 k to repair i think that's abit on the high side. if you want some help working through his i'm pretty sharp on hydraulics as are some other forum members.

 

[muleman]

Here are some pics sent by Kirk.

 

[300 H and H]

Thanks for posting the pictures muleman. Don, we have no blue print of this "prototype" rig. The company that made it also was primarly making rubber tracks, and they built this to use their own tracks. Some where along the way they went belly up. My gut feeling is that we run not walk away from this..... The steering wheel just adds to my worries about the hydrolic system and what might have to be done. Two sticks and it's relatively simple, two seperate circuts, one for each track. Add a wheel for steering and the water getts muddy...

Besides if we wre successfull in pulling this off, damage a track and we're done. No replacement anything for this rig. Every breakdown will require fabbing up new parts, or getting them from the manufacturer

I have requested any prints, drawings ect of the hydrolic system from DNR. I was told not to hold my breath....but we can expect it to be delivered for our inspection. Then we can make our own prints of the system, just like we would have to when doing repairs....

I got my running shoes handy cause it was built in 1995 and now has only about 100 hrs. on it. How many belly pans full of oil is any bodies guess....

Regards, Kirk

 

[300 H and H]

By the way the drag is behind the tractor in one or two of the pictures. It is a BIG drag, and we wonder if this might also be a part of the problem. Perhaps it has the engine horse power, but the hydro system is sized to small for the HP and the load. This would quickly lead to over heating. It was also stated turning performance was poor, perhaps this is also a poorly chosen drag causing this as well. If muleman reads this perhaps he might post a pic of the drag.

Nice looking rig.....but....

Regards, Kirk

 

[muleman]

Here is the drag.

 

[NorthernRedneck]

Ooooo....those arrowhead drags. We have an 8 ft arrowhead and it pulls hard and leaves a crappy trail behind. Our 10fter drag hauls much easier and leaves a much nicer trail behind. I find that we had way more hydraulic problems when we were using the arrowhead. It's got allot of extra weight toward the front of the drag with the front wheel assemblies and is harder on the hydraulic pumps I find.

 

[Mtn-Track]

I would think that an estimate of $22K to "fix" a hydraulic oil heating issue should be warning enough to run away. I would agree that both the drag and the drive system of the machine are probably a bad combination, but spending $$$ on a one-off machine that's purpose is to be an active groomer (not just a toy or personal transportation) could be a real lose-lose situation for the club. I'd definately check the pulse on this gift-horse!

 

[NorthernRedneck]

I agree also. Do some research. There are machines out there going for a decent price if you know where to look and these are machines that have parts readily available. The tracks on that machine look to be more of a summer application. Not so sure on how the traction would be with those in the snow.

 

[300 H and H]

I just found out some more information, The defunck company was know as "Ram Charger" (Surprised Chriysler motors didn't have anything to say about that) anyway......

It has 150 HP Cummins dieseel and about $20,000 was spent on it back a decade ago, and still issues. Basically sat since then. The groomer pictured is not for this machine as it turns out, and the correct one is smaller.

We are going to get it for a look see at State expence....If we take it on as a project our club is not on the hook for the repair bill. If we are succesfull we get to keep and use it, ( and we NEED it) but the state retains ownership.

So I guess we don't really have anything to loose by trying, except our time.......

I was just called that it is on a trailer and may be in route in the morning. So I guess we shall see. Stay tuned.

Regards, Kirk

 

[Mtn-Track]

We are going to get it for a look see at State expence....If we take it on as a project our club is not on the hook for the repair bill. If we are succesfull we get to keep and use it, ( and we NEED it) but the state retains ownership.

So I guess we don't really have anything to loose by trying, except our time.......

I was just called that it is on a trailer and may be in route in the morning. So I guess we shall see. Stay tuned.

Regards, Kirk

Ummmmm...........

After that statement the little alarms in my head are screaming. Why would the state 'give' it to you to use, yet still retain ownership, and pick up the maintenance costs IF THEY WON'T USE IT THEMSELVES? I know I'm probably overly suspicious, but this deal sounds more like the gift-horse may have a terminal condition and your club will end up paying for an expensive funeral in the end.

Be careful on this deal, but I wish you the best of luck with it nonetheless!



Sometimes FREE is good! Unless it comes with 'itchy critters'......

 

[muleman]

"Sometimes FREE is good! Unless it comes with 'itchy critters'......"

Been there ,done that!

 

[300 H and H]

Here the State owns the groomer, and club members who are trained and certified operate them. So this is no different than the currant situation we have with our 252 Ski Dozer.

Regards, Kirk

 

[Snowtrac Nome]

i still think that cost estimate is a bit steep unless they plan to reengineer the system but like some others have mentioed getting any servise info or specialty parts might be more than you all would want to bite off.

 

[Alaska Snow Cat]

Several states have the same type of grooming program.

Not having ever been to Ohio I can only assume you don't get real deep snow or have steep terrain so the tracks themselves should work ok? I know a lot of clubs in the midwest and back east are using farm tractors with similar tracks and some don't use tracks at all.

As far as the hydraulic problems I would want someone that is familiar with working on that type of system and is familiar with hydrostatics and related problems. It could be a design problem that may or may not be affordable to fix, could be a component/maintenance item that may or may not be affordable to fix and could also be operator error.

I agree two sticks that are mechanically linked to the pumps is a simpler system but all the steering wheel or "electric" sticks are doing is sending electrical signals to the pumps, usually through a micro processor, and when working correctly are a little more comfortable to drive IMO.

I'm curious as to what type of hydrostatic transmission it has and if it has an oil cooler, two speeds, auxiliaries for driving an implement and if it uses a different pump and reservoir for the blade and drag. All these things could be related to over heating.

I would't run away until you had a good look at it. Now if you can get the state to cough up the dough for a BR180 or PB100....

 

[300 H and H]

Update,

It's hard for the oil cooler to get air, because the tilting cab comes down right smack in front of it...The temp loss across the cooler is 0! It's like it is, not even the system. With no load oil temps come up to 180+ pretty fast. Our first thought is to add another large oil cooler to the deck in back of the cab, with an electric fan for air flow. We'd just leave the old one in place, for now untill we get the oil cooled down with an auxillary cooler.

The rest of theis machine looks very good. Sunstran made the steering and the electronically controlled hydro pumps, and they are 40 miles away in Ames. We have got a engineer with them who is working on the bugs in this system. This just might not be that difficult, and with a little luck we will have two groomers this year on our 90+ miles of trails.

Hopefully I can get some money for repairs on our 252 Ski dozer, as it needs two new flexators for the front wheels.....

Winter will hopefully waite untill the crops around here are out.....

Regards, Kirk