Excavator Purchase or Contract-Out?

[Mainer]

I'm contemplating buying a second hand excavator that I would use to build a road up a moderately sloped mountain. Then drop a build site in at the top. That build site would require moving 22,000 yards of earth. The road is about 600 feet.

Given that information, what size excavator would be appropriate? The terrain is not excessively rocky but has larger rocks on the size of 1-2 feet. There have been areas where larger 8-10 foot rocks are but let's set those exceptions aside for the moment.

So, does this sound like a 25,000 lb excavator job? 35,000 lb? ????

Is it worth buying one to do this work and end up with an excavator that can be used for ATV trails, etc... or to have someone 'just do it'. The estimate to have someone else do it is $25,000.

Also set aside actually knowing how to build a road as I have a buddy that knows the ins and outs and can provide guidance.

Thoughts from y'all?

Thanks!

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

If time is not a requirement/need then I would buy one. You should be able to find something for $25,000-$35,000 and sell it for not much less (or maybe more) when you are done.

 

[bczoom]

I'm contemplating buying a second hand excavator that I would use to build a road up a moderately sloped mountain. Then drop a build site in at the top. That build site would require moving 22,000 yards of earth. The road is about 600 feet.

Do you have any pics of the areas for the building lot and road?

$25K sounds like way too much. It also sounds like they've tacked on a bunch of hours to complete the job using the excavator instead of bringing in a dozer. I'm guessing that if the excavator did the rough work and stump removal then a dozer came in, it would go faster and be cheaper.

Cutting a 600' driveway around here (traversing a hill, through the woods) takes about a day with either a dozer or excavator. Cleanup takes time but that doesn't require the big equipment.

You mentioned ATV trails for later. Those would be impressive if you first have to get a 25+ ton excavator through first. It'll be a double-lane highway.

Have you looked into renting? Around here, there's a couple ways they have it setup.
1. You rent it for a "specific period". Let's say a week. This option is common when the user is in a hurry to complete a project. They charge you a certain amount for the week and you use it all you want during that time. When you rent using this approach it's common to arrange several operators and you run it as close to 24/7 as possible. It's a real ballpark number but my guess is about $1000/day using this option (depending on the size/type of equipment).
2. You rent it for hours on the meter. You pay for the hours racked up on the meter. Let's say you pre-buy 40 hours. They may give you a month to use up those hours but you're only paying for the hours it's running. This is a good option if you're doing the work yourself.

Of the 2 choices you mentioned ($25K to have someone else do it or buy your own), I'd buy it. A good used machine is about $25K + whatever shipping to get it there...

 

[Doc]

Sounds like tough work for just and excavator. I would think you would need a fair sized dozer also. Depending on the terrain a good dozer operator could get er done for you quick and easy. That's how I'd try to get er done.

I googled and found this 2005 BOBCAT 430ZHS for 39k but it's in Iowa. They had lots of equipment listed there ....Here is the link:
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...5988357&guid=650605459BB043B3A6987DE76035C999

 

[bczoom]

I googled and found this 2005 BOBCAT 430ZHS for 39k but it's in Iowa.

I was thinking of something twice that size.
One that runs about 80-100hp, runs a 3' bucket... You can pick up a used one for $25K or so.

 

[Mainer]

If time is not a requirement/need then I would buy one. You should be able to find something for $25,000-$35,000 and sell it for not much less (or maybe more) when you are done.

I'm a natural always 'do it yourselfer' as I really like it! It just feels that much more rewarding and it's cheaper and you end up with cool equipment!
I'm very tempted to go the equipment route.

 

[Mainer]

Sounds like tough work for just and excavator. I would think you would need a fair sized dozer also. Depending on the terrain a good dozer operator could get er done for you quick and easy. That's how I'd try to get er done.

I googled and found this 2005 BOBCAT 430ZHS for 39k but it's in Iowa. They had lots of equipment listed there ....Here is the link:
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...5988357&guid=650605459BB043B3A6987DE76035C999

Yea, this is one of my worries... I wouldn't want to buy more equipment than an excavator. So, maybe I would buy the excavator and just make do with that and have it take me more time/effort. Alternately, I could get it all roughed in with the excavator and then rent a dozer and hit it to finish it off. Thanks for the input! Some of these things are like being sooo close to the bark on the tree you realize you're actually on the wrong continent without a drop of perspective.

 

[Mainer]

Do you have any pics of the areas for the building lot and road?

$25K sounds like way too much. It also sounds like they've tacked on a bunch of hours to complete the job using the excavator instead of bringing in a dozer. I'm guessing that if the excavator did the rough work and stump removal then a dozer came in, it would go faster and be cheaper.

Cutting a 600' driveway around here (traversing a hill, through the woods) takes about a day with either a dozer or excavator. Cleanup takes time but that doesn't require the big equipment.

You mentioned ATV trails for later. Those would be impressive if you first have to get a 25+ ton excavator through first. It'll be a double-lane highway.

I left out one important bit of info that it includes gravel. Someone said that the gravel could be worth $5-10K alone. That seems pretty high to me for gravel but I can see maybe $5K. My quote was $20-25K but I'm playing it safe in expecting $25K. It also would include culverts (needs 2-3). The road itself is about $5K while the build side is about $15K and then $5K for gravel.

Basically, it's digging into the mountain that is reasonably steep to create a 100' x 400' build site. So, 50' into the mountain and pull that out and push it 50' out to build up the slop side to deliver the flat 100' wide piece...and doing that 400' along the mountain.

Here are some pics...the first one upmtn1.jpg is looking straight up where the road would start but it would be a side cut to the left and up 600 feet. The exposed dirt is a pre-existing build site a bit lower down the mountain but you can see the type of earth...very clayish. A reasonable number of stumps because it was cut about 5 years ago. Not too many medium trees to drop but some...not much work in dropping them so it's mainly stump time.

Then get to the top... upmtn2 is looking along the length of the mountain with a moderate grade up the mountain to the right. upmtn3 is looking along the length of the mountain in a steeper part to the right. So then digging into that mountain 50 feet and 400 feet long. That's reasonably steep up there so digging into that and pulling it out 50 ft...granted it doesn't have to be hauled anywhere...just pulled out and over the edge to the down side of the mountain. That would deliver a 100' x 400' build site.

Now, that was after cutting down the job size.... originally it was 200' x 400' build site...digging way into the mountain 100' and then pulling out and over the edge 100' to yield 200' wide site. It is pretty steep so it's alot of earth. That was a $45K job. Broke my back when I got that quote!!! I was thinking...sionara 'build-site with a view!'

The $25K job is a 3 week gig, full-time on that...no multi-project distraction BS. Seems like a heck of alot of cash for digging but I also know three guys doing excavation for 10-15 years with small crews... one of them is a multi-millionaire in assets (couple thousand acres), and the others make plenty of cash... it's a cash-cow business that still amazes me. DIG DIRT. Get paid big coin. Go figure. Granted, there's a science to it... but still. It even seems like it would be fun!

See attached pics.

Any additional feedback is appreciated.

 

[bczoom]

OK, so your $25K was worse case.

If you could pull the price for the stone and culvert out (you pay for yourself, based on your need/desire), and they give you a $15K price for the excavating, that sounds reasonable.

I've seen many contractors underbid the exact same project you're talking about as hill digging is misleading if you don't figure yardage very, very closely. If you contract to do it, get a fixed bid, in writing with specifics on dimensions, location as well as what to do if/when you hit an obstacle (e.g. who's going to pay to blow up the big rocks)

 

[Doc]

What are you going to do with all that dirt your are moving?

That is a lot of dirt you'll be moving. Given the option I sure would not go cheap on the excavator. If you put 25 or 30k into and sell it 3 months later for 3k less than you paid. I figure you'd be doing pretty good. However, you always have to plan for the worst case. If you couldn't sell it right away you would have to be prepared and not have to have the cash for it for 12 or 24 months.
I know homes and high end boats can take that long to sell. I do not know excavators and heavy equiptment. So I don't know the average worst case for how long you might have to hang on to the excavator waiting for a buyer.

 

[Mainer]

What are you going to do with all that dirt your are moving?

That is a lot of dirt you'll be moving. Given the option I sure would not go cheap on the excavator. If you put 25 or 30k into and sell it 3 months later for 3k less than you paid. I figure you'd be doing pretty good. However, you always have to plan for the worst case. If you couldn't sell it right away you would have to be prepared and not have to have the cash for it for 12 or 24 months.
I know homes and high end boats can take that long to sell. I do not know excavators and heavy equiptment. So I don't know the average worst case for how long you might have to hang on to the excavator waiting for a buyer.

Well, it'll just pushed out and used to build up the other 50 feet. So, basically use it to continue the flat spot out where there was slope before. Because that 50 feet wouldn't be as solid over the years (given some settling will occur), I'd build on the dug-out part of the mountain as much as possible. Rocks will be used to build the face of it to work against erosion.

Well, part of me says buy a medium size because I'm contemplating keeping it for ATV/Snowcat/Snowmobile trails... another part says just rent a 55,000 lb beast and bang it out. I've seen some 55K units for rent for $3,500 for a month. There wasn't any info about allowable hours used though so there could be a gotcha in there that I hadn't thought of. I thought it was just add diesel and go... but I'll check into it. It would be a blast to rent something ridiculous like a D9 dozer! Wouldn't that be rediculous? I bet a person could do the whole job with a D9...stumps, side cuts, etc....

If I were to buy, use, sell I'd agree and error on the high-side of beefyness.