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CJ question

H

HGM

New member
Doc's thread got me thinking....


I have an '81 CJ-5 that I bought TOTALLY stripped to the bare frame. Good body and all... It came with the 2.5L Iron Duke, but here's the twist... I'm a Ford guy, as most of you guys know, and I am seriously thinking about swapping in an Explorer drivetrain. It would be complete with a 4.0L EFI V-6 and 4 or 5spd auto trans(assuming I can get it to fit, preliminary measurements work out fine)... It would have the Ford 8.8" rear and a Cherokee Dana 44 up front to swap the diff drive to the left side. My question is, have you guys seen one of these and what do you think it would be worth with a body off restoration, powder coated frame and new lines and hardware? The main thing stopping me from starting is the likelyhood that I would get way upside down in it.. But, I regularly see restored CJ-s with $15k pricetags.. What are your thoughts?? I believe I can complete it for less than $5k, but I know thats probably a low estimate...
 
First, the Explorer driveline is WAY too long. You'll have about 4" of rear driveshaft. You could hook that 4.0 to a NP435 trans and a Dana 300 transfer case and come out ok. But remember Jeeps don't bring a big price tag.
 
russellmn said:
First, the Explorer driveline is WAY too long. You'll have about 4" of rear driveshaft. You could hook that 4.0 to a NP435 trans and a Dana 300 transfer case and come out ok. But remember Jeeps don't bring a big price tag.
Click to expand...

Thats what I'm affraid of, but I keep seeing stuff like this.. The prices seem insane to me, but I know I could do this for much less than the price some of these guys are asking for their rigs.. And, mine would be a reliable daily driver with modern power and good fuel economy... I'm just leery of starting this project because of that question, I'm not into doing anything of this magnitude if I cant make a proffit at the end.. Do these guys count their labor as the build cost? I would too, but thats the proffit margine in my mind...

Have you seen something like this? The Explorer is long, but I think I can move the engine far enough forward to compensate, without too much weight shift.. Could be wrong, but it's working in my mind with preliminary measurements...
Thanks,
Greg
 
I've been into restorations and collecting for many years. Here are some things that I've noticed over the years. For most people buying, the Explorer drivetrain would not be any attraction. Unless you ran across someone who was just a Ford nut, (and why would many of them be looking for a Jeep? They look for old Broncos) a Ford drivetrain would detract from the value. Most would look for something that is either very exotic, like a 572ci big block, or something Jeep/Chrysler for a drivetrain. Other than the adaptions of the Ford Pinto engine in VW's, I really have not seen any big attraction of Ford powertrains in other vehicle lines. I used to subscribe to some Jeep magazines many years ago and recall that there were dozens of places that made small block Chevy adapter kits, but I don't recall any place that made a V6 Ford adapter kit. If you also notice, most of the Jeeps with big prices don't have bids. One of the two that does states that the reserve is half of the amount invested. Labor is generally not accepted as any value or as any amount invested. As unfair as it seems (I have thousands of hours in resto work), that is the way it is.

If you want to do the job for your own personal satisfaction and for your own personal use, I'd say go for it. If you're looking to do a job that will turn a profit, I'd say that you'd have to go with a different powertrain. To me, I wouldn't even slow down to look at a Jeep at a show that had a Explorer or Blazer V6 powertrain. There just isn't any real attraction there. I'd say to stay with Jeep or go somewhat exotic V8 with the powertrain. If you really want to go Ford on the powertrain, about the only thing that I think would turn heads and bring money would be a supercharged 5.4 or something like that. So, unless it's a labor of love, and you just really want to do the work, I'd go with a different powertrain.

*edit*
I just got off the phone with my dad, who still goes to shows all the time. He told me that he's seen several CJ Jeeps bring big money that had diesel powertrains. I don't have a clue how you'd possibly get it to fit, but he said he saw a CJ7 with a Cummins 5.9 bring almost 20k. :eek:
 
Dargo said:
*edit*
I just got off the phone with my dad, who still goes to shows all the time. He told me that he's seen several CJ Jeeps bring big money that had diesel powertrains. I don't have a clue how you'd possibly get it to fit, but he said he saw a CJ7 with a Cummins 5.9 bring almost 20k. :eek:
Click to expand...

Now that sounds cool!!!

I guess I'm just thinking practicality rather than what most Jeep buyers want... Guess most Jeep buyers arent looking for that. You'r right that most of these are radical rock crawlers, monster(axle breaking) V-8's and such....

Honestly, I'd like to do it.. It's funny, I even have that 5.4L s/c that you mentioned sitting in a trailer in the back yard:whistle_lips:... I just would rather not go that route in this Jeep.. I also have a '74 Bronco thats begging for it and it would be a much easier swap.. Anyone want a Jeep project?? Hadnt thought of selling it, but I'm tired of looking at it sit allong the side of my shop...
 
how much???? I'm always looking.
For diesels you could find a Cummins 4BT to drop in. it's a 4 cyl diesel that makes about 350 lbs/ft torque and gets wonderful mileage.
 
:confused2: Like I said, hadnt given it much thought... If youre serious, I could get some pictures of it for you... Ever get down to the Atlanta area?

I'll have to look at that diesel option though..
 
I have seen alot of jeeps and alot of conversion over the last five years. Doing the swap that you mentioned I have not seen. I can not confirm if it would be too long of a drive line in a CJ-5 or not. But you can get a really short CV style driveshaft for the rear and it will work.

I too do not think it would be a swap to add value to the rig.

From what I ahve seen in the hobby is most often an AMC V-8 swap or going with a Chevy 350 or 383 ..

You really want to be carefull about how much motor you put in there. Take into account the short wheelbase your working with.

I would have more sugggestions if I knew what type of rig you intended on having when your done. A trail rig, show jeep, fast jeep, weird jeep or whatever...

I like the axles your choosing to work with stronger than stock but not overkill heavy. They will be wider and your tires will stick out past the body. May or may not be a worry depends on where you live.. etc..



I do the some radical rockcrawling with a tried and true 258 inline 6. Not all the rigs out there are high horse power big v-8s. Even in the buggies. Those v-8's are way too heavy. You see many more smaller quick reving 4 and 6's in them.

I have seen a few 4BTS stuffed in there. Really cool conversion.

Like I said already it really depends on what you intend on doing with the jeep.
 
cj7 said:
IFrom what I ahve seen in the hobby is most often an AMC V-8 swap or going with a Chevy 350 or 383 ..

You really want to be carefull about how much motor you put in there. Take into account the short wheelbase your working with.
.
Click to expand...

That was my thought... I could easily put a 302, 351, 350, etc in there, but what would I have?? I have a good freind that put a 302 in his Bronco II and lifted it up on 35".. He never spent the money on a front axle and to this day it still runs with a broken front axle because he got tired of repairing it.... A v-8 just seems like overkill to me..

My thoughts were to put a 200hp fuel injected V6 into this light CJ-5 and have much more power than a stock unit combined with the reliability of EFI and modern tech. Seems like a natural to me, but I'm not big into the Jeep scene, thats why I wanted you guys to give your opinions.. It's doable in my mind, but I cant help but wonder why noone else is doing these swaps. Maybe its the WOW factor.. Like Dargo said, no one would think twice about a Ford v-6 powered Jeep at a show.. I've got plenty of time though... Its been sitting allong side the shop for 6yrs now, its not going anywhere and doesnt cost me anything.. I may get the body done before too long to it doesnt start to deterioate though...
 
www.advanceadapters.com

these folks pretty much it all and have done it...

very high quaility adpaters and parts..


how about an early vortec 4.3 with a 5spd.. from an S-10...

would make a nice usable machine.. you can build the early 4.3 motors from what I understand..



A good friend of mine cometes her rig. We stuck a 4.3 and auto from an '03 fullsize truck in her TJ she competes in the stock modified class.

http://www.team311.com/rig/default.htm

I know this is some hardcore stuff..

But the driveline is very dependable!!!!!
Would be great for a daily driven rig on the road or trail.
 
I'd think she does pretty well with it too, none of the weight issues and tempermental carb problems.. (??) Sounds like what I've got in mind..
 
Nope no carb issues..

It is a very light block vs power ratio also..

Some of the competitors use the Short Star block Aluminum block from a caddy... but it is pricey..
 
i like the ISUZu idea...

It should fit...

we had an NPR truck for awhile.. with a turbo.. 4 cyl.

good running truck was just enough power for it but it ran nice...
That would be fun to see it in a jeep!
 
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