A Saudi Prisoner

[Dargo]

It's hard for me to believe than Muslims swallow all the bullshit they spew out. It's obvious to me that it they believe they can enslave and mistreat other people, they are barbarians at best. Certainly they are not people of God, because no God would allow people to be enslaved.

But Don, you have to understand, it was only a woman. Most every sect of Islam considers women nothing more than mere possessions.

 

[OkeeDon]

There is hope for the Muslims. At once time, the United States was also a primitive country. We held slaves, used police to crush workers' rights, used ethnic cleansing to slaughter native Americans, denied women the right to vote and many other rights, encouraged bigotry and segregation, and many other practices we now criticize in others.

However, over the course of the last 50 to 100 years, primarily led by liberals and fought at every junction by conservatives, we have gradually evolved into a nation that respects the rights of others. If we can get rid of the fascist, ultra-right leaders of the Muslims, perhaps they, too, can grow into decent human beings.

Of course, we have to get rid of our own near-fascist right wing leaders, first, before they drag us back to the old practices in the name of religion...

 

[Dargo]

However, over the course of the last 50 to 100 years, primarily led by liberals and fought at every junction by conservatives,

Uh, hmm... It was the 1st Republican President of the U.S. who abolished slavery on April 16, 1862. Before that time, women could not vote, slavery was legal and there were all sorts of discrimination. It was only since the Republican Party started that we have progressed out of the times of being barbaric, fighting the wild leftist liberals the entire way...

 

[HGM]

There is hope for the Muslims. At once time, the United States was also a primitive country. We held slaves, used police to crush workers' rights, used ethnic cleansing to slaughter native Americans, denied women the right to vote and many other rights, encouraged bigotry and segregation, and many other practices we now criticize in others.

However, over the course of the last 50 to 100 years, primarily led by liberals and fought at every junction by conservatives, we have gradually evolved into a nation that respects the rights of others. If we can get rid of the fascist, ultra-right leaders of the Muslims, perhaps they, too, can grow into decent human beings.

Of course, we have to get rid of our own near-fascist right wing leaders, first, before they drag us back to the old practices in the name of religion...

Don,

Can you now see a reason to "liberate" or allow democracy in the Middle East? I understand Iraq is just a small portion of it, but having lived among these people for a couple years, this is absoloutly no surprise to me... We are doing a good thing in Iraq, whether it is the primary reason for going over ther or not.. BTW, our own near-fascist right wing leaders ,as you called them, are responsible for helping them..

 

[Melensdad]

However, over the course of the last 50 to 100 years, primarily led by liberals and fought at every junction by conservatives, we have gradually evolved into a nation that respects the rights of others. If we can get rid of the fascist, ultra-right leaders of the Muslims, perhaps they, too, can grow into decent human beings.

Seems to me that many of the 'conservatives' you referred to are actually liberal Democrats who fought against civil rights. Many were 'conservative' in some ways, but on the overall political scale were typical liberal Dems. Robert Byrd, a true liberal in all ways, springs to mind as one of the liberal Dems who was a Ku Klux Klan member.

As for getting rid of some of the fascist Muslims, here is a somewhat encouraging story:

Al-Qaida in Iraq's No. 2 is captured

By ELENA BECATOROS, Associated Press Writer 29 minutes ago

Authorities on Sunday announced the capture of al-Qaida in Iraq's No. 2 leader, accusing him of "brutal and merciless" terror operations, including the bombing of a Shiite shrine that touched off the sectarian bloodletting pushing Iraq toward civil war.

Iraq's national security adviser said Hamed Jumaa Farid al-Saeedi, known as Abu Humam or Abu Rana, was arrested a few days ago as he hid in a residential building southwest of Baqouba.

The arrest has left al-Qaida in Iraq suffering a "serious leadership crisis," national security adviser Mouwafak al-Rubaie said. "Our troops have dealt fatal and painful blows to this organization."

He accused the terror suspect of supervising the creation of death squads and ordering assassinations, bombings, kidnappings and attacks on Iraqi police and army checkpoints. "The operations were brutal and merciless," al-Rubaie said.

Not much is known about al-Saeedi, but al-Rubaie said he was the second most important al-Qaida in Iraq leader after Abu Ayyub al-Masri. Al-Masri is believed to have taken over the group after a U.S. air strike killed leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi north of Baghdad on June 7.

Al-Rubaie said al-Saeedi was "directly responsible" for Haitham Sabah Shaker Mohammed al-Badri, an Iraqi whom authorities have accused of leading the Feb. 22 bombing against the Shiite shrine in Samarra, 60 miles north of Baghdad.

The attack inflamed tensions between Shiite and Sunni Muslims and triggered reprisal attacks that have killed hundreds of Iraqis.

Al-Saeedi's capture "will affect al-Qaida in Iraq and its operations against our people, especially those aimed at inciting sectarian strife," al-Rubaie said.

The U.S.-led coalition and Iraqi authorities have announced numerous arrests after al-Zarqawi was killed that officials claim have thrown al-Qaida in Iraq into disarray.

But rampant sectarian violence and other attacks have continued, with at least 20 Iraqis killed in bomb attacks and shootings on Sunday.
​

 

[Melensdad]

Hello Dear members,
this is my first topic in this Great Forum
so excuse me if I wasn't Clear in writing it,
Anyways
I dont know if u heard about Hemeedan Al-Turky Father of 5 children.
He was sent to the USA to get his Doctrate Degree from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
He is now in Jail,for a crime Saudi people r sure he did not commit.
His sentence was prison to LIFE.
Do u think thats a fair verdict?
The charges against him were Kidnapping first degree-Planning to kidnap first degree-Sexual Harassment 4th degree.
Im no Lawyer,
But I believe Jail for life isnt an option,Because The story Started at 2004 when he was arrested for Mistreating their House maid and he was released on Bail.Then He was arrested again 9 weeks ago if Im not mistaken. He was sentenced to life in jail. Do u think that its worth it?and just for the record,when they asked the maid the first time she said no they treated me as if I was one of their own,six months later she said He abused me.whats that about?
and are his charges worthy of life in jail?
His story is all over KSA in every News paper.
People here think its being Racism.
I would really like to know,if u think that thats normal for a man to be in jail for life for these reasons and with insuffecient evedince.
The Maid said they were treating her like family six months later they changed their mind.WHY?
Thank u for having the time to read my post.
Im so sorry for any mistakes I might have made in this topic since this is my first topic here.
Thank u for passin' by.

Back onto the topic of this thread, here is the official word from the Saudi Press via the Arab News.

The Middle East's Leading English Language Daily​

Tuesday, 5, September, 2006 (12, Sha`ban, 1427)
Sentence of Saudi Student Unfair, Says Prince Ahmad

P.K. Abdul Ghafour, Arab News —
JEDDAH, 5 September 2006 — Deputy Interior Minister Prince Ahmad stated yesterday that the 27-year prison sentence given by a Colorado court to Saudi student Homaidan Al-Turki was too much and hoped that US authorities would reduce the sentence.

“It appears that the matter does not deserve such a (harsh) verdict and we hope it would be less than that,” he said, commenting on the verdict issued by the court on Aug. 31 after Al-Turki was convicted of 12 counts of forced sexual assault, two misdemeanors related to forced imprisonment, and theft for keeping the maid’s wages.

Al-Turki, 37, a linguist who worked at a Denver publishing and translating firm, has denied the sexual assault charges and said US authorities were persecuting him for “traditional Muslim behaviors”. He blamed anti-Muslim prejudice for his conviction and the severity of his sentence.
He says that prosecutors persuaded the maid to accuse him after they failed to build a case against him as a terrorist. Al-Turki had been investigated by the US authorities who suspected he might be abetting terrorism, but no case was ever found against him.

“The Saudi government under the leadership of Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah will do everything possible (in this case). We take care of our citizens wherever they may be and it’s the duty of the state to follow up these things,” the Saudi Press Agency quoted Prince Ahmad as saying.

Speaking to reporters after opening an educational exhibition in Makkah, Prince Ahmad confirmed the government’s efforts to win the release of Al-Turki. “We think that the sentence was unfair,” the minister said about the court verdict.

Referring to other Saudis held in US custody, Prince Ahmad said most of the Saudi Guantanamo returnees were victims of injustice. “Many of them have already received adequate punishment. Many things related to them are controversial,” he said.

He also blamed Saudis for being in places where they should not have been and then getting arrested. He said the trial of suspected militants involved in a series of terrorist acts across the Kingdom was progressing well.

“All the detainees will get a fair trial and everybody will receive the punishment he deserves,” he explained.

He also said that investigations on the four militants who surrendered to police last month in Jeddah after a 17-hour gun battle were continuing. The four militants were arrested on Aug. 21 in the heavy populated district of Al-Jamia in Jeddah.

Referring to the Saudi prisoner Abdul Rahman Al-Atawi, who is in an Israeli jail, Ahmad said: “This man is a strange personality and it appears that he went there without any purpose. We are still following up the case.” Al-Atawi was caught crossing into Israel from Jordan in 2005.

Asked about the prospects of changing regional governors, he said governors, like ministers, are appointed for four years. “There is a possibility of changes according to the declared law,” he said.

Earlier, Prince Ahmad opened an exhibition on the history of education in Saudi Arabia organized by the Education Ministry. He also opened the Makkah Museum for Antiquities and Heritage located inside King Abdul Aziz Palace in Zahir.

Education Minister Abdullah Bin-Obaid said the museum contains relics dating back to the pre-Islamic era as well as those from the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him).

Suspected Militants Caught in Baha
Four suspected militants were arrested Sunday in Baha, the Interior Ministry announced yesterday.

The four suspects were apprehended in a remote village in the mountainous terrain in the south of the Kingdom. The suspects, who did not resist arrest, are currently under interrogation, said a ministry spokesman.

Officials believe the four men are linked to subversive elements in the Kingdom. Al-Riyadh newspaper identified the suspects as three Saudis and a Yemeni.

— Additional input by Samir Al-Saadi

Copyright: Arab News © 2003 All rights reserved. Site designed by: arabix and powered by Eima IT​

 

[Melensdad]

And here is the view of the Rocky Mountain News. It was the only newspaper I could even find that had any substantial information on this topic, probably because this is a local story in Colorado, this is carried by the AP so it may appear in many other outlets.

Rocky Mountain News [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]To print this page, select File then Print from your browser[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]URL: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/home/article/0,1299,DRMN_1_4959102,00.html[/FONT]
Saudi man gets 20 years to life, denies enslaving nanny
By Felix Doligosa Jr., Rocky Mountain News
August 31, 2006


CENTENNIAL — A Saudi man convicted of sexually assaulting his Indonesian housekeeper was sentenced this morning to 20 years to life in prison.

Homaidan Al-Turki, 37, was also given an 8-year sentence on theft charges that will be served consecutively.

Al-Turki denied in Arapahoe County District court that he enslaved the woman and said authorities were prejudiced against him.

"Your honor, I am not here to apologize, for I cannot apologize for things I did not do and for crimes I did not commit," he told Judge Mark Hannen.

Al-Turki was convicted in July of 12 felony counts of unlawful sexual contact with use of force, one felony count of criminal extortion and one felony count of theft. He also was found guilty of two misdemeanors: false imprisonment and conspiracy to commit false imprisonment.

Deputies surrounded the packed courtroom and many of Al-Turki’s family cried after the hearing.

Prosecutors said Al-Turki brought the victim from Saudia
Arabia in 2000 to work as his family’s nanny and housekeeper.

Al-Turki is married and has five children.

Al-Turki allegedly took the woman’s passport and sexually abused her.

"This is a clear cut example of human trafficking," Prosecutor Natalie Decker said outside the courtroom. "It’s important he is put in prison."

Al-Turki worked as a linguist at a Denver publishing and translating company and is a doctoral candidate at the University of Colorado.

Al-Turki’s wife, Sarah Khonaizan received a 60-day jail sentence and five years of probation when she pleaded guilty earlier this month to stealing from the housekeeper. She is expected to return to Saudi Arabia after serving her sentence.
Al-Turki also faces federal charges of forced labor, document servitude and harboring an immigrant. That case is scheduled to start in October.

-- The Associated Press contributed to this report

Copyright 2006, Rocky Mountain News. All Rights Reserved.


​

In a related action, on August 1 there was another sentencing in this same case (it should be noted that she pleaded GUILTY to the charges on May 9, 2006. She is the wife of Homaidan Al-Turki)

Woman Sentenced in Housekeeper Slavery Case

Tuesday , August 01, 2006

CENTENNIAL, Colo. — A woman was sentenced to two months in jail Tuesday for effectively stealing the services of an Indonesian woman who prosecutors said was held as a virtual slave for four years.

Sarah Khonaizan, 35, a Saudi citizen who lives in suburban Denver, also was ordered on the theft charge to pay $90,000 in restitution and was ordered not to have any contact with the 24-year-old woman.

Last week, a federal judge sentenced Khonaizan to five years' probation and ordered her to pay $26,275 in restitution after pleading guilty to harboring an illegal immigrant.

Her attorney, Forrest Lewis, has said she wants to return to Saudi Arabia and will not fight deportation.

Prosecutors and FBI agents accused Khonaizan and her husband, Homaidan Al-Turki, 37, of hiding the woman's passport and forcing her to care for the family for four years.

Click here for the Crime Content Center

She slept on a mattress on the basement floor and was paid less than $2 a day, according to testimony.

Al-Turki was convicted in June of sexually abusing and imprisoning the woman. He faces a federal trial in October on other charges in the case.

​

What I find VERY INTERESTING is that he states in his statement to the judge that he is being convicted because "The state has criminalized these basic Muslim behaviors." But in the American point of view, I would suggest that he was not singled out for anything to do with being a Muslim, it has to do with what he did to the maid. I'd also suggest that there are many non-Muslims who have been prosecuted and found guilty of similar offenses and sentenced to similar periods of time in prison.

When he states that "basic Muslim behaviors" are why he was found guilty, would it be unreasonable for Americans to say that this is a secular nation that recognizes the laws of the United States and that basic Muslim behaviors may not always be compatible with out laws? Afterall, it is generally considered to be a basic right of an American to be able to freely practice religion, or to not practice any religion if he sees fit, but when an American is in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia the Americans there are forbidden from freely and openly practicing the faith of their choice unless it happens to be the state sanctioned religion. Further, most Americans would suggest that we have the rights to many other things here that we do not enjoy when we are in the K.S.A. However, Americans are subject to the laws of the K.S.A. when they travel. So why is it, or why shoud it be different, when a subject of the K.S.A. in a guest living here in the U.S.A?

Rocky Mountain News [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]To print this page, select File then Print from your browser[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]URL: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4960559,00.html[/FONT]

Saudi gets long sentenceMan was convicted of sexual assaults on housekeeper

By Felix Doligosa Jr., Rocky Mountain News

September 1, 2006

CENTENNIAL - Sniffles and sobs resonated in a packed courtroom Thursday as a Saudi man convicted of sexually assaulting his Indonesian housekeeper was sentenced Thursday to 20 years to life in prison. Homaidan Al-Turki, 37, was also ordered to serve eight additional years for theft charges.

He denied in Arapahoe County District Court that he enslaved the woman and said authorities targeted him because of his religion.

"Your honor, I am not here to apologize, for I cannot apologize for things I did not do and for crimes I did not commit," he told Judge Mark Hannen.

"The state has criminalized these basic Muslim behaviors. Attacking traditional Muslim behaviors was the focal point of the prosecution," he said.

Prosecutor Natalie Decker said the trial had nothing to do with Al-Turki's Muslim beliefs. "It has to do with what he did to her for five years," she said outside the courtroom.

Al-Turki was convicted this summer of 12 felony counts of unlawful sexual contact with use of force, one felony count of criminal extortion and one felony count of theft. He also was found guilty of two misdemeanors: false imprisonment and conspiracy to commit false imprisonment.

The case has captured the attention of the Muslim community worldwide. The Saudi government gave Al-Turki the money he needed to post a $400,000 bond on the charges in Arapahoe County.

Prosecutors said Al-Turki brought the victim, who is now 24, from Saudi Arabia in 2000 to work as his family's nanny and housekeeper in their Aurora home. Al-Turki is married and has five children.

The victim testified in court that she worked seven days a week and was paid $150 a month. She said Al-Turki and his wife kept most of that money.

Al-Turki also allegedly took the woman's passport and sexually abused her.

The Rocky Mountain News is withholding the nanny's name because she is a sexual assault victim. She now lives in Aurora.

"This is a clear-cut example of human trafficking," Decker said. "It's important he is put in prison."

Copyright 2006, Rocky Mountain News. All Rights Reserved.
​