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Would you employ them

daedong

New member
Lockheed's Flying Dud

The Self-Locking F-22
By ROBERT BRYCE
Last week, Lockheed Martin announced that its profits were up a hefty 60 percent in the first quarter. The company earned $591 million in profit on revenues of $9.2 billion. Now, if the company could just figure out how to put a door handle on its new $361 million F-22 fighter, its prospects would really soar.
On April 10, at Langley Air Force Base, an F-22 pilot, Capt. Brad Spears, was locked inside the cockpit of his aircraft for five hours. No one in the U.S. Air Force or from Lockheed Martin could figure out how to open the aircraft's canopy. At about 1:15 pm, chainsaw-wielding firefighters from the 1st Fighter Wing finally extracted Spears after they cut through the F-22's three-quarter inch-thick polycarbonate canopy.
Total damage to the airplane, according to sources inside the Pentagon: $1.28 million. Not only did the firefighters ruin the canopy, which cost $286,000, they also scuffed the coating on the airplane's skin which will cost about $1 million to replace.


Here are photos of the incident.
The Pentagon currently plans to buy 181 copies of the F-22 from Lockheed Martin, the world's biggest weapons vendor. The total price tag: $65.4 billion.
The incident at Langley has many Pentagon watchers shaking their heads. Tom Christie, the former director of testing and evaluation for the DOD, calls the F-22 incident at Langley "incredible." "God knows what'll happen next," said Christie, who points out that the F-22 has about two million lines of code in its software system. "This thing is so software intensive. You can't check out every line of code."
Now, just for the sake of comparison, Windows XP, one of the most common computer operating systems, contains about 45 million lines of code. But if any of that code fails, then the computer that's running it simply stops working. It won't cause that computer to fall out of the sky. If any of the F-22's two million lines of computer code go bad, then the pilot can die, or, perhaps, just get trapped in the cockpit.
One analyst inside the Pentagon who has followed the F-22 for years said that "Everyone's incredulous. They're asking can this really have happened?" As for Lockheed Martin, the source said, "Whatever the problem was, the people who built it should know how to open the canopy."
Given that the U.S. military is Lockheed Martin's biggest client, perhaps the company could provide the Air Force with a supply of slim jims or coat hangars, just in case another F-22 pilot gets stuck at the controls.
As if the latest canopy shenanigans weren't bad enough, on May 1, Defense News reported that there are serious structural problems with the F-22. Seems the titanium hull of the aircraft isn't meshing as well as it should. Naturally, taxpayers have to foot the bill for the mistake (improper heat-treating of the titanium) which is found on 90 aircraft. The cost of repairing those wrinkles? Another $1 billion or so.
Lockheed Martin's F-22 spokesman, Joe Quimby, did not return telephone calls.
Robert Bryce lives in Austin, Texas. He is the author of Cronies: Oil, the Bushes, and the Rise of Texas, America's Superstate. He can be reached at: robert@robertbryce.com
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
It is my understanding that the CIA is going to hire them to hold Moussaoui. :D

to me it would be embarrassing
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Wow! With all those problems, it sure wouldn't increase my "fuzzy warm feeling".:4_11_9::tiphat::beer:
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I wonder what the ejection system is on that plane.

I don't see any detonation cord around the canopy. If it's there, I wonder why they didn't use it.
 

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
The ejection mechanism will explode bolts holding the entire canopy assembly to the airframe. A very violent disassembly. The damage to the aircraft would have been far in excess to what was encountered by cutting the canopy.

BTW - the author of the article has a know anti-military agenda. His spin is evident in it.
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
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Av8r3400 said:
The ejection mechanism will explode bolts holding the entire canopy assembly to the airframe. A very violent disassembly.
OK.

I'm only familiar with the MDC on AH-1 (Cobra) helicopters. I don't fully recall but I didn't think it did much since it wasn't doing anything more than making it where the pilot(s) could get out in case of emergency. It didn't eject anything, it more-or-less just melted the glass material.
 

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
Some fixed wing a/c use this too, AV-8-B Harrier comes to mind right away. Most use a completely seperating canopy assembly rather than leave a potentially lethal "partial canopy" attached.
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
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Av8r3400 said:
rather than leave a potentially lethal "partial canopy" attached.
Or just hop in an A6 and then you're in really bad shape.

For those not familiar with the A6, A6's don't eject the canopy... The pilot goes right through it :eek: There is a cage that goes over the pilot's head as part of the ejection seat but it doesn't protect much...
 

nixon

Boned
GOLD Site Supporter
bczoom said:
Or just hop in an A6 and then you're in really bad shape.

For those not familiar with the A6, A6's don't eject the canopy... The pilot goes right through it :eek: There is a cage that goes over the pilot's head as part of the ejection seat but it doesn't protect much...
Brian that's not an uncommon feature . The OV 10 ,and several other acft do the same . Most have what looks like the head of a crash axe welded to the top of the seat to break the canopy as the seat deploys . Not very appealing , but better than the alternative .
It's certainly better than Downward ejection seats that were mounted on f 104's and two stations on the B52 !!!
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
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nixon said:
The OV 10 ,and several other acft do the same
Interesting. I wasn't aware the OV-10 did that. A friend of mine drove those for years but I guess it never came up.
 

nixon

Boned
GOLD Site Supporter
bczoom said:
Interesting. I wasn't aware the OV-10 did that. A friend of mine drove those for years but I guess it never came up.
Yup! Interesting enough was that cocKpit access was to the Right side of the aircraft. Which put it at odds with most military aircraft (other than the o2 ).
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
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nixon said:
Yup! Interesting enough was that cocKpit access was to the Right side of the aircraft. Which put it at odds with most military aircraft (other than the o2 ).
Agreed. The OV-10 was a bit of an oddball. Those props were also too close to jump out the side.
 

Snowcat Operations

Active member
SUPER Site Supporter
Lockheeds flying dud?????? Oh ok tell that to the 10 f-18 pilots who were all taken out one by one by a single F22 (10 to 1 ratio). They never even saw the F22. Just so you know the F18 is (was) the most feared aircraft in the skies! Then here comes this new F 22 and completely cleaned there clocks! Yah some dud!

I was once locked in a room when the door handle fell off. The house was in the tens of millions. Guess it was really a getto home and only worth a few pennies. Must have been a piece of crap. Took me a few minutes to fix the door handle myself so I guess since the fire dept wasnt called maybe this doesnt count? Nah same thing. Once had a tire blow on me Guess every single tire ever made by that company is going to blow. My satelite dish once had a bad card. Yup the whole system is crap. They once said the Abrahms tank was to complicated. to many things could go wrong. Well they did for the Iraqis that is. Seems to me 5 tanks took out over 75 enemy armored tanks and other armored vehicles even when they had the advantage and were in hull down positions. The American tanks came over a rise and were in the thick of it. Yup piece of crap tank that Abrahms.


NOT!
 
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bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
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Snowcat Operations said:
Lockheeds flying dud?????? Oh ok tell that to the 10 f-18 pilots who were all taken out one by one by the F22 (10 to 1 ratio). They never even saw the F22. Just so you know the F18 is (was) the most feared aircraft in the skies! Then here comes this new F 22 and completely cleaned there clocks! Yah some dud!

I was once locked in a room when the door handle fell off. The house was in the tens of millions. Guess it was really a getto home and only worth a few pennies. Must have been a piece of crap. Took me a few minutes to fix the door handle myself so I guess since the fire dept wasnt called maybe this doesnt count? Nah same thing.
Mike,

As noted by Av8r3400, the author of the article has a know anti-military agenda.
 

nixon

Boned
GOLD Site Supporter
bczoom said:
Agreed. The OV-10 was a bit of an oddball. Those props were also too close to jump out the side.
I hated working on them . They were cheesey at best . They seemed to be made to break ! They did some wierd things like... The instruments were held in buy the instrument lights on the top mounts . That's all well and good, But Each cockpit instrument has a different mount thinkness . So... Every light post had a different length. Screw in one light post that's too long into an instrument ,and You have a VERY DARK Cockpit because it shorted out the whole system .
I hated it when we were night flying . There was always a rash of "no instument lighting " gripes .
 

Carm

New member
Why is it that you only hear of the failures. Never the success stories. This incident was a fluke. In an increasingly automated age, failures of this type can become common. As stated before, this author has an agenda. There is more to this than what he reports.
 

Snowcat Operations

Active member
SUPER Site Supporter
Hmm would I employ the builders who build the absolute best aircraft ANY country has ever seen in the history of this world? To what, build me an aircraft? Uhhh yah. No I take that back I would employ a Chineese company or a North Korean company if I really had to choose. Yah thats who I would pick.

Let me ask "whoever" this question. If any of these countries friendly or other were told they could have Lockheed build them any aircraft they wanted. AND those aircraft would be the exact same they are building now. DO YOU THINK ANYONE OF THESE COUNTRIES WOULD SAY NO????? WHAT WOULD BE THERE FIRST PICK?????? It would be the F-22
 

Carm

New member
Thanks snowcat, I dont build anything though. Iam mostly in a "support" role in the corporate flight department. So maybe indirectly.
 
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