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IMP/Clark OC-4 Steering band rehab/reline

Idaho IMP

Member
Super Patron
Alrighty, this is going to be a post on the relining process of a pair of old original steering bands from an OC-4 axle from a Thiokol Imp. The used bands are from John at Oliver Crawlers in New York. John is a great source for most things OC-4 related. This is my third (and hopefully final) time swapping brake bands. I’ve burned through two sets of the “cheap” replacements from Broken Tractor. While BT Is a great company to deal with, the bando they sell are the lighter duty meant for the older style of differentials. The main difference is the anchor end of the band. The original style is much thicker and is attached to the band with 5 rivets rather than 3 on the replacements. The rivets used are also much larger in diameter. The failure point on my last set was that the anchor plate sheared off the band almost immediately.
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The second picture is of the sheared off anchor and how it fell down between the drum and band. This is how I found it when I removed the rear cover.
note in the third picture the difference in construction of the bands.
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John had supplied me with new linings and rivets for the used bands. The original band is on the left. Cheap internet band on the right.
the first step was to drill out and remove the rivets holding the original lining on the OC bands. A 9/64 twist drill and a small punch were all that was needed. I then cleaned the bands with Easy-off oven cleaner and water. Next, I clamped the new liner material to the backing bands with spring clamps. The new linings were butted up to the 3 rivets on the loop end of the band. View attachment IMG_1347.jpegView attachment IMG_1348.jpeg Note how in the previous picture the band extends beyond the anchor a solid inch or so. This is fine for now And will be trimmed later with an oscillating tool (Fein Tool). To drill rivet holes, I have a counterboring bit that is 5/16 diameter with a shoulder cut in the profile. This is actually a ski binding drill bit I’ve had for decades. Ideally, you want to counterbore 1/2-3/4 of the band thickness. To do this, I’ve installed a stop collar on the bit to control the depth. To drill the holes, I started at the loop end and progressed to the anchor end. You want to start at this end to keep the band tight without slop to the backer if that makes sense.
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The first step in drilling was to use a 9/64 drill to drill from the metal side of the band and drill all the way through the backer. I drilled 2 consecutive holes at a time, then riveted them. The thru drill locates the inside counterbore. The inside of the holes were then counterbored to accommodate the rivet heads.
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The depth is somewhat critical depending on the rivet thickness. My experience was that you’re better off being too shallow rather than too deep with the counterbore. If the counterbore is too deep, the rivet may not get tight enough when pressed. For a rivet press, I bought a vintage press meant for relining brake pads using tubular rivets. View attachment IMG_1354.jpeg
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I did have to do a final set with a drift and ball peen to really tighten the rivets up. Overall, the process went well, and didn’t take too long. The bands are somewhat pokey, I used a glove on my left hand to hold the assembly as I worked.
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Once complete, I trimmed the long end of the band with an oscillating tool and cut them about 1/8”past the bracket end. I’ve since soaked the bands with trans oil and will reinstall in the coming days….I hope this will help those needing to undertake the process. It’s not difficult but it’s worth buying the needed rivet press and some sort of counterbore bit.
 
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Way cool, thanks for sharing. As I finish my quasi-restoration efforts, the last thing I'll do is pull the inspection plate and re-adjust the brake bands (properly this time, as one is too loose after I put it all back together last year). One of my bands looks to be the same material as your new ones, whereas the other is definitely some different material. Both have plenty of material left but I may just rebuild the one; or wtf, might as well do both as long as I'm in there. It's only money. Not sure I'll DIY or just send them out.
 
Nice work. My first brak lining was for a kitten and what full I had learning about the length of the tube as it relates to the material. I couldn't get them to roll as the solid part was too long. Great job
 
Found some photos of my starting or learning phase.
 

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Well thanks a bunch for all the info. I have a thiokol imp with a c4 rear end. Riddle me this. It only moves when the brakes are applied and the right side track is getting very little torque. Plus can't turn/stop the left side track. Drives in circles.....once you pull the brakes. If you don't pull the brakes it won't move. Thanks guys.
 
Weird. Is this a new development?
Perhaps a broken axle. Worse case scenario would be toasted ring and pinion gears, stripped teeth to where your differential wouldn't function at all. Even if you had no brake shoes at all or too loosley adjusted, the machine should still move forward but wouldn't respond to the steering brakes.
 
Yeah brand new issue. Can you get new ring and pinion gears for these things? Yeah pretty strange doesn't move till you pull the brakes. Also is the rear plate (that is an axle to frame mount) the only way to open it up the diff and have a look?
 
That’s a weird one…. I agree with the broken axle. I think it’s your right side. It seems like the planetary diff is behaving correctly. The steering on these only slows the “turn” side by 30%, and they won’t lock up. If you can rotate the tracks so the lacing is on the rear sprocket, you can easily separate the track lacing so the sprockets are off the tracks, and you should be able to diagnose easier. At the least, you’ll have to remove that right axle with the housing, from the center section.
As an alternative to diagnose a broken axle, you can drain the oil from the rear end, jack up and crib the cat, and spin the track and observe the rear diff for rotation. I’ve picked up one side by inserting large diameter spud bars or a breaker bar in the bogey mount tubes where the leaf springs bolt to and raise with bottle jacks and support with Jack stands.
It’s really not that hard. I dont have a shop, per se, but my thiokol trailer works great for a work platform. Keep us posted. I’ve purchased a new axle from Pat and Nancy at Spryte improvement. It’s an easy replacement, and you’ll probably want the new outer axle seal and bearing to go with it.
 
Yeah brand new issue. Can you get new ring and pinion gears for these things? Yeah pretty strange doesn't move till you pull the brakes. Also is the rear plate (that is an axle to frame mount) the only way to open it up the diff and have a look?
Yes, the rear plate is the way. It’s not too difficult. I would drain the case first. It’s about a 5 minute job. Ring and pinion are like hen’s teeth for these.
 
Hmmm I've never seen a hens tooth!!!! Lol. Praying it's not the ring and pinion? I'm opening it now. Any other suggestions?
 
It’s an Idaho thing…. They (hen’s teeth)pop up a lot when doing a web search for unobtanium parts. A/I will bet their grubby mitts on them shortly.
 
I’d support the center case with blocks of wood. To remove the cover, you’ll have to unbolt that pillow block center pivot first. I assume the 1402 is similar to a 1404. Once that is removed, the axle will want to drop and that’s no bueno, so support with a couple of blocks. With the tracks on, the rear end carries a fair amount of weight. Just curious, but does your unit have the drop center grousers??
 
It's a drop grouser 1402 with a modified front end to fit a Toyota 22r and auto transmission. We call her the "Yota Cat"
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Nice! I’ve heard mention of your 22r transplant. Very cool. My first college rig was an 88 toyota pickup 2nd with a 22r and 4 speed.
Is there any way you can bar the diff around and see if it’s not turning the right side track?
 
Just spin the ring gear? And see if the right side spins? I had it jacked all the way up prior to dismantle and the right side track wouldn't spin.

Haha that's awesome I got it from council. We are in the middle of a pretty legit make over and now it won't move.......so sad lol. I must fix!!!!!
 
When it was jacked up with the left side spinning the brakes wouldn't stop the left side. All super strange to me. But I've never messed with a 1962 4 speed rear end before so I guess I'll learn lol
 
When it was jacked up with the left side spinning the brakes wouldn't stop the left side. All super strange to me. But I've never messed with a 1962 4 speed rear end before so I guess I'll learn lol
So in no way could you get the right side to spin, or it would spin without torque, like you said before?
The brake steer will slow one side about 30%, while increasing speed on the other by the same amount. Your planetaries look amazing. I’m betting a broken axle. Right now, with the cover off, can you get the track to rotate at all? The diff should rotate quickly because of the gear reduction. If you can rotate the track but the diff won’t rotate at all, or the brake drum won’t rotate at all, then it has to be a broken axle…..
 
When it was in the air right side didn't spin at all. On the ground it would spin both sides but yeah way more torque on the left side. And brakes wouldn't stop or turn anything. Maybe left side was just kinda free spinning?? Any idea where to get an axle for this pig? Gotta take off the track to get the axle housing unbolted and taken off the side of the diff? Thanks for all your help
 
I'll get it back up in the air and spin the right track. See if the gears and brakes spin. Is there a way to tell if it has the limit slip?
 
I'll get it back up in the air and spin the right track. See if the gears and brakes spin. Is there a way to tell if it has the limit slip?
It won’t have a limited slip. That would defeat the steering. I would jack up the whole unit, remove the right side sprocket and track, then try to rotate the right drive wheel by hand. Spryte Improvement should have an axle in stock. If you get it taken apart this far, it’s only 4-5/8” bolts to remove the axle tube and axle in one go. By doing so, you’ll be able to see if the axle is broken immediately. The end that slips into the center section Is just a splined, slip-fit. If you don’t see splines on the end of the axle, it’s broken off, and the splined end is still in the splined female end of center carrier.
 
Good info. Thanks so much for all the help. I'll take that sprocket off and axle out this afternoon. I'll def let ya know what I find. Do you think there is something that could of been out of adjustment and that's why it broke/won't work? Or just life broke it?
 
Great help and advice from Idaho IMP. I can't add much more than my initial comments. In some respects it's easier to remove the entire differential and roll the whole thing into the shop. That's what I did, because I had to pull both axles anyway in order to remove the "guts"...the entire carrier assembly...to fix what was wrong with it from the previous mechanic that put it back in wrong rotated 180°. In essence, I had to put the rear end in reverse in order to go forward. No bueno.
I'm still thinking broken axle, but stumped why you can't go forward without first pulling on the brakes. Not normal. If one axle is broken, you would still move forward but your Imp would constantly turn to the left or right....I would think, but then I'm no expert.
 
If you think of the rear diff as a standard automotive type carrier you will forever use brakesteer in conjuction with open differential. Lose all of that minset. And replace it with controlled differential and multiple transmissions. There is basically two 3 speeds in series with each other. One left one right.
If u put them for and aft but left one of them in neutral. Would u move?
 
Oh and to be clearer the left and right transmissions need to undstood to be automatics
 
Boystoys that doesn't sound good having to use reverse lol. Bummer the last mechanic did that!!!! And yes yes yes thank you so much for Idaho imp and all his help!!!!

Yeah still stumped as to why it needed brakes to move. I'm taking the track off and the sprocket/the left side axle housing now. Hopefully that will tell us the issue.

Redsqwrl that all sounds pretty crazy. I think I am following it. Does mine have two sets of gears for all the 1st-4th for left and for right side all in the Clark c-4?
 
Well here ya go boys. I can't really tell but I think it might be something to do with this wizard hat axle jahahahaha.
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Hopefully spryte improvement can hook me up with a newish one. Any bright ideas how to get the broken end that is still in the diff out? It's in that last pic. I think Im gonna have to drill and tap it. But I'm all ears to suggestions.
 
Well here ya go boys. I can't really tell but I think it might be something to do with this wizard hat axle jahahahaha.View attachment 187177 View attachment 187178View attachment 187179Hopefully spryte improvement can hook me up with a newish one. Any bright ideas how to get the broken end that is still in the diff out? It's in that last pic. I think Im gonna have to drill and tap it. But I'm all ears to suggestions.
Well, as we all kinda suspected. Bummer but at least you now know. Perhaps un- bolt the bearing retainer and remove it (but first support the carrier gear assembly inside with a chunk of wood so it doesn't drop down). Then maybe just weld something on to the axle stub and use a slide hammer to pull it out. Fun and freakin' games, huh?
 
Haha yeah that's what I'm trying no love yet though. She's really in there!!!! Are we sure there's no clip or something holding it in? It should just slide out?
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could I take the other axle out and push it out with a long rod? Thanks guys
 
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