mak2
Active member
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
OK, why do you think?
OK, why do you think?
-
Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/
"Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
- Thread starter RobsanX
- Start date
SShepherd
New member
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
???? Non sequitur !
mak2
Active member
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
Step away from the threasus.
Step away from the threasus.
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
Can I use a thesaurus in it's stead ?
Keep typing , You look brighter with every post .
Step away from the threasus.
Can I use a thesaurus in it's stead ?
Keep typing , You look brighter with every post .
mak2
Active member
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
never said I could spell.
Can I use a thesaurus in it's stead ?
Keep typing , You look brighter with every post .
never said I could spell.
loboloco
Well-known member
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
That number on the green card. There is a special program for employers that is run thru ICE. Verifies number, name and address. SSAN can be checked thru the Social Security people. Please note, if you don't check the SSAN's you can pay into non existent accounts and the IRS will never say a word. They won"t give you the money back either.
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
If you have a green card. What happens if they say that they are a natural born American of Hispanic descent and they don't need no stinkin' green card? Here is my Soc. Sec. card and driver's license and the names match. They moved from the address on their license to their present address looking for work and haven't had time to change it. There are too many holes to be exploited and still no surefire way to check. Besides, you want to hire someone to start work next week not in a couple of months.
There is still no good, practical way that I can see to run these checks in an efficient, timely manner except by hiring no Hispanics at all and that's only going to lead to all kinds of trouble.
If you have a green card. What happens if they say that they are a natural born American of Hispanic descent and they don't need no stinkin' green card? Here is my Soc. Sec. card and driver's license and the names match. They moved from the address on their license to their present address looking for work and haven't had time to change it. There are too many holes to be exploited and still no surefire way to check. Besides, you want to hire someone to start work next week not in a couple of months.
There is still no good, practical way that I can see to run these checks in an efficient, timely manner except by hiring no Hispanics at all and that's only going to lead to all kinds of trouble.
loboloco
Well-known member
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
Update:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_immigration_enforcement
Arizona law raises fears of racial profiling
By JONATHAN J. COOPER, Associated Press Writers Jonathan J. Cooper, Associated Press Writers – 21 mins ago
PHOENIX – Arodi Berrelleza isn't one of the targets of Arizona's new anti-illegal immigration law — he's a U.S. citizen.
But the 18-year-old high school student from Phoenix said he's afraid he'll be arrested anyway if police see him driving around with friends and relatives, some of them illegal immigrants.
"If a cop sees them and they look Mexican, he's going to stop me," Berrelleza said. "What if people are U.S. citizens? They're going to be asking them if they have papers because of the color of their skin."
Berrelleza's concerns were echoed at rallies in the state Saturday, a day after Gov. Jan Brewer signed a bill that requires police to question people about their immigration status — including asking for identification — if they suspect someone is in the country illegally.
The new law, which will take effect in late July or early August, was cheered by many, including Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, whose tough crackdowns have made him a hero in the anti-illegal immigration community.
He said it gives him new authority to detain undocumented migrants who aren't accused of committing any other crimes.
"Now if we show they're illegal, we can actually arrest them and put them in our jails," Arpaio said.
Current law in Arizona and most states doesn't require police to ask about the immigration status of those they come across, and many departments prohibit officers from inquiring out of fear immigrants won't report crime or cooperate in other investigations.
The new measure also toughens restrictions on hiring illegal immigrants for day labor and knowingly transporting them.
Arizona has an estimated 460,000 illegal immigrants and is the state with the most illegal border crossings, with the harsh, remote desert serving as the gateway for thousands of Mexicans and Central Americans.
Arpaio said he hoped Arizona's example coerces the federal government into acting to seal the border.
President Barack Obama has called the new law "misguided" and has instructed the Justice Department to examine it to see if it's legal. He added that the failure to enact immigration reform in Washington left the door open to the "irresponsibility by others."
Arpaio said the law's passage is going to spur politicians on Washington "get something done."
"Because I think they'll be afraid that other states will follow this new law that's now been passed," he said.
Mexican President Felipe Calderon's office said in a statement Saturday that "the Mexican government condemns the approval of the law" and "the criminalization of migration." It said the law will serve as an obstacle as Mexico and Arizona try to solve the shared problems along the border.
Mona Patton, a 58-year-old real estate agent from Prescott, said she's proud of Brewer and the Legislature for trying to protect people from violent drug cartels. "When Arizonans aren't safe then something has to be done. We've got to let law enforcement handle things," Patton said.
A handful of protesters lingered at the state Capitol Saturday morning, with a bigger rally expected to draw hundreds on Sunday afternoon.
Opponents of the law also gathered in Tucson outside the campaign headquarters of U.S. Rep. Raul Grijalva, a Democrat who opposes the measure and said his staff has been flooded with phone calls, some from people threatening violence and shouting racial slurs.
Brewer has ordered state officials to develop a training course for officers to learn what constitutes reasonable suspicion someone is in the U.S. illegally. Civil rights advocates vowed to challenge the law in court, saying it would lead to racial profiling despite the governor's assurances.
Supporters dismissed concerns about racial profiling, saying the law prohibits the use of race or nationality as the sole basis for an immigration check.
The bill's sponsor, Republican Sen. Russell Pearce, said opponents are using racial profiling as a cover for their true concern — deportation.
"This is not about profiling. They're worried about the laws being enforced," Pearce said.
Largely because of Arpaio's policies, Arizona was known for tough illegal immigration crackdowns even before Brewer signed the bill into law.
But Arpaio's jurisdiction is limited, and the new law will have its biggest impact in the rest of the state, where many police bosses have long resisted suggestions that their officers conduct day-to-day immigration enforcement. They say it would distract their officers from investigating other crimes and sow distrust among immigrants.
Immigrant advocates say the bill could worsen an already tenuous relationship between law enforcement and Hispanics in Arizona.
State Sen. Rebecca Rios, a Phoenix Democrat and fourth-generation Arizonan, said she's concerned about her 14-year-old son being harassed by police because of his brown skin, black hair and dark-brown eyes.
"I don't want my son or anyone else's son targeted simply because of their physical characteristics," Rios said. "There's no reason I should have to carry around any proof of citizenship, nor my son."
___
Associated Press writers Paul Davenport in Phoenix and Mark Stevenson in Mexico City contributed to this report.
Update:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_immigration_enforcement
Arizona law raises fears of racial profiling
By JONATHAN J. COOPER, Associated Press Writers Jonathan J. Cooper, Associated Press Writers – 21 mins ago
PHOENIX – Arodi Berrelleza isn't one of the targets of Arizona's new anti-illegal immigration law — he's a U.S. citizen.
But the 18-year-old high school student from Phoenix said he's afraid he'll be arrested anyway if police see him driving around with friends and relatives, some of them illegal immigrants.
"If a cop sees them and they look Mexican, he's going to stop me," Berrelleza said. "What if people are U.S. citizens? They're going to be asking them if they have papers because of the color of their skin."
Berrelleza's concerns were echoed at rallies in the state Saturday, a day after Gov. Jan Brewer signed a bill that requires police to question people about their immigration status — including asking for identification — if they suspect someone is in the country illegally.
The new law, which will take effect in late July or early August, was cheered by many, including Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, whose tough crackdowns have made him a hero in the anti-illegal immigration community.
He said it gives him new authority to detain undocumented migrants who aren't accused of committing any other crimes.
"Now if we show they're illegal, we can actually arrest them and put them in our jails," Arpaio said.
Current law in Arizona and most states doesn't require police to ask about the immigration status of those they come across, and many departments prohibit officers from inquiring out of fear immigrants won't report crime or cooperate in other investigations.
The new measure also toughens restrictions on hiring illegal immigrants for day labor and knowingly transporting them.
Arizona has an estimated 460,000 illegal immigrants and is the state with the most illegal border crossings, with the harsh, remote desert serving as the gateway for thousands of Mexicans and Central Americans.
Arpaio said he hoped Arizona's example coerces the federal government into acting to seal the border.
President Barack Obama has called the new law "misguided" and has instructed the Justice Department to examine it to see if it's legal. He added that the failure to enact immigration reform in Washington left the door open to the "irresponsibility by others."
Arpaio said the law's passage is going to spur politicians on Washington "get something done."
"Because I think they'll be afraid that other states will follow this new law that's now been passed," he said.
Mexican President Felipe Calderon's office said in a statement Saturday that "the Mexican government condemns the approval of the law" and "the criminalization of migration." It said the law will serve as an obstacle as Mexico and Arizona try to solve the shared problems along the border.
Mona Patton, a 58-year-old real estate agent from Prescott, said she's proud of Brewer and the Legislature for trying to protect people from violent drug cartels. "When Arizonans aren't safe then something has to be done. We've got to let law enforcement handle things," Patton said.
A handful of protesters lingered at the state Capitol Saturday morning, with a bigger rally expected to draw hundreds on Sunday afternoon.
Opponents of the law also gathered in Tucson outside the campaign headquarters of U.S. Rep. Raul Grijalva, a Democrat who opposes the measure and said his staff has been flooded with phone calls, some from people threatening violence and shouting racial slurs.
Brewer has ordered state officials to develop a training course for officers to learn what constitutes reasonable suspicion someone is in the U.S. illegally. Civil rights advocates vowed to challenge the law in court, saying it would lead to racial profiling despite the governor's assurances.
Supporters dismissed concerns about racial profiling, saying the law prohibits the use of race or nationality as the sole basis for an immigration check.
The bill's sponsor, Republican Sen. Russell Pearce, said opponents are using racial profiling as a cover for their true concern — deportation.
"This is not about profiling. They're worried about the laws being enforced," Pearce said.
Largely because of Arpaio's policies, Arizona was known for tough illegal immigration crackdowns even before Brewer signed the bill into law.
But Arpaio's jurisdiction is limited, and the new law will have its biggest impact in the rest of the state, where many police bosses have long resisted suggestions that their officers conduct day-to-day immigration enforcement. They say it would distract their officers from investigating other crimes and sow distrust among immigrants.
Immigrant advocates say the bill could worsen an already tenuous relationship between law enforcement and Hispanics in Arizona.
State Sen. Rebecca Rios, a Phoenix Democrat and fourth-generation Arizonan, said she's concerned about her 14-year-old son being harassed by police because of his brown skin, black hair and dark-brown eyes.
"I don't want my son or anyone else's son targeted simply because of their physical characteristics," Rios said. "There's no reason I should have to carry around any proof of citizenship, nor my son."
___
Associated Press writers Paul Davenport in Phoenix and Mark Stevenson in Mexico City contributed to this report.
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
If I run a red light in front of a police officer I expect to be ticketed and fined. The law clearly states that you must stop at the red light.
If I rob a bank with a gun, I expect to be charged with robbery, tried, and if convicted, spend time in jail. The law clearly states that you can't just run around and rob banks at gunpoint (or otherwise).
If I smack the living shit out of you because you just don't get the fact that the law says that there is a protocol for entering the United States if you are not a US citizen, and that there is a process for applying for permission to stay if you choose to stay here for more than a short visit, then I think it's worth the chance of being convicted of smacking the shit out of a dope who just doesn't get it.
We have laws for a reason. No, they all don't make sense, and some are downright discriminatory. But there is a process for changing them. In the meantime, round up the illegals, build a big ass wall like we should, and send the illegals back where they came from. We have enough democrats here that don't get it already, without a bunch more that can't speak English.
If I run a red light in front of a police officer I expect to be ticketed and fined. The law clearly states that you must stop at the red light.
If I rob a bank with a gun, I expect to be charged with robbery, tried, and if convicted, spend time in jail. The law clearly states that you can't just run around and rob banks at gunpoint (or otherwise).
If I smack the living shit out of you because you just don't get the fact that the law says that there is a protocol for entering the United States if you are not a US citizen, and that there is a process for applying for permission to stay if you choose to stay here for more than a short visit, then I think it's worth the chance of being convicted of smacking the shit out of a dope who just doesn't get it.
We have laws for a reason. No, they all don't make sense, and some are downright discriminatory. But there is a process for changing them. In the meantime, round up the illegals, build a big ass wall like we should, and send the illegals back where they came from. We have enough democrats here that don't get it already, without a bunch more that can't speak English.
dzalphakilo
Banned
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
I have to laugh. If the Mexican president is upset by this new law, we should just ask him to let us use the same legal standards Mexico uses to deport their illegal aliens coming in from the south of THEIR border.
Two things...
1. Our legal system will most likely tie this and any other "draconian law" up in the courts for years
2. We don't currently have the man power, and with the war on everything else this country is figting, good luck charlie.
I would just love to see your submittal for such a wall
Just ensure that you have your papers and everything will be fine. Given time, I have no doubt that the wetbacks will have the documentation figured out.
This poor sheriff has't really thought things out in advance yet.
Given time, Arizona will probably look to the Feds for money and that's where they will get em.
I have to laugh. If the Mexican president is upset by this new law, we should just ask him to let us use the same legal standards Mexico uses to deport their illegal aliens coming in from the south of THEIR border.
Two things...
1. Our legal system will most likely tie this and any other "draconian law" up in the courts for years
2. We don't currently have the man power, and with the war on everything else this country is figting, good luck charlie.
I would just love to see your submittal for such a wall
Just ensure that you have your papers and everything will be fine. Given time, I have no doubt that the wetbacks will have the documentation figured out.
This poor sheriff has't really thought things out in advance yet.
Given time, Arizona will probably look to the Feds for money and that's where they will get em.
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
During my job retraining after our factory closed, I did a report for one of the manufacturing classes about the effect of undocumented (illegal if you will) people on the economies of states that boarder Mexico. The impact of the flood of these people is staggering and not only from the illegal drug traffic and murders but to the medical facilities as well. I can’t quote an exact figure but Texas alone lost money in the billions of dollars taking care of these people. I’m sure a quick Google search can give a much more accurate total but remember I’m not taking about Americans without insurance, but just people that are here illegally. The Arizona law is in response to the lack of action from our federal government over the last 20 years or more. Sometimes desperate times require desperate measures.
During my job retraining after our factory closed, I did a report for one of the manufacturing classes about the effect of undocumented (illegal if you will) people on the economies of states that boarder Mexico. The impact of the flood of these people is staggering and not only from the illegal drug traffic and murders but to the medical facilities as well. I can’t quote an exact figure but Texas alone lost money in the billions of dollars taking care of these people. I’m sure a quick Google search can give a much more accurate total but remember I’m not taking about Americans without insurance, but just people that are here illegally. The Arizona law is in response to the lack of action from our federal government over the last 20 years or more. Sometimes desperate times require desperate measures.
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
Are racist remarks really necessary?
Are racist remarks really necessary?
dzalphakilo
Banned
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
1. Since I don't feel that my white hairy butt is really "superior" to people from Mexico (or any other "race" for that matter), the comment wouldn't be considered racist, but perhaps biggoted.
2. I see you're from the land of Cheese. Ever spend any time near or around the Rio Grande? Know where the term "wetback" comes from? The term isn't used to describe a certain race of people, but people coming into the our country illegally.
Now, spend some time driving around in the south in town, and sooner or later your bound to pick up some racists remarks
Big words never impressed me
1. Since I don't feel that my white hairy butt is really "superior" to people from Mexico (or any other "race" for that matter), the comment wouldn't be considered racist, but perhaps biggoted.
2. I see you're from the land of Cheese. Ever spend any time near or around the Rio Grande? Know where the term "wetback" comes from? The term isn't used to describe a certain race of people, but people coming into the our country illegally.
Now, spend some time driving around in the south in town, and sooner or later your bound to pick up some racists remarks
Big words never impressed me
Last edited:
mak2
Active member
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
I remember a guy in the Marine Corps (Mexican) knocking someone goofey cause he called him a wetback. Are you really trying to say wetback is not derogatory. Perhaps I should call LCpl Montenez(Ithink) to tell him to apoligize.
I remember a guy in the Marine Corps (Mexican) knocking someone goofey cause he called him a wetback. Are you really trying to say wetback is not derogatory. Perhaps I should call LCpl Montenez(Ithink) to tell him to apoligize.
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
Here we go. The left is getting violent because things are not going their way. Fight! Fight!
Just like they were in the 60's. Hey. look! They're turning over a VW on its roof! The cheese head started it!!!!
Here we go. The left is getting violent because things are not going their way. Fight! Fight!
Just like they were in the 60's. Hey. look! They're turning over a VW on its roof! The cheese head started it!!!!
dzalphakilo
Banned
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
I didn't say the term wasn't derogatory.
Call Montenez if you'd like, but I don't think you'll accomplish anything. Added the fact that Montenez was/is serving in our armed forces, chances are his paperwork was in order when he enlisted
I didn't say the term wasn't derogatory.
Call Montenez if you'd like, but I don't think you'll accomplish anything. Added the fact that Montenez was/is serving in our armed forces, chances are his paperwork was in order when he enlisted
dzalphakilo
Banned
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
I'm not dumb enough to call some strange Mexicans who I don't know a "wetback".
"Wetback" was a term used for people from Mexico "Sneaking" into the U.S via a river, and when they got to the US side, their back's we're dripping from the river.
Any Mexican who comes into this Country illegally, to some extent is a "wetback". I'm sorry, will it make you feel any better if I call them an "illegal alien"?
Kind of like when I was talking with Warren, a buddy of mine a couple of months ago (or perhaps longer). For some reason, Al Sharpton came up in our conversation, and Warren called Mr. Sharpton a "dumb ass nigger".
Ironically enough, Warren is a black man.
As Warren told me, it may not be politically correct for me to call Mr. Sharpton a "nigger", but he sure in hell could.
I'm not dumb enough to call some strange Mexicans who I don't know a "wetback".
"Wetback" was a term used for people from Mexico "Sneaking" into the U.S via a river, and when they got to the US side, their back's we're dripping from the river.
Any Mexican who comes into this Country illegally, to some extent is a "wetback". I'm sorry, will it make you feel any better if I call them an "illegal alien"?
Kind of like when I was talking with Warren, a buddy of mine a couple of months ago (or perhaps longer). For some reason, Al Sharpton came up in our conversation, and Warren called Mr. Sharpton a "dumb ass nigger".
Ironically enough, Warren is a black man.
As Warren told me, it may not be politically correct for me to call Mr. Sharpton a "nigger", but he sure in hell could.
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
Actually I'm from Oklahoma, and yes I lived around, worked with, and are friends with many Americans of Hispanic heritage. You stated that they would have their documentation in order, so you were talking about the entire ethnic group whether they be here legally or otherwise.
If you want to be a racist, that's your right, but don't backtrack when someone calls you out on it.
1. Since I don't feel that my white hairy butt is really "superior" to people from Mexico (or any other "race" for that matter), the comment wouldn't be considered racist, but perhaps biggoted.
2. I see you're from the land of Cheese. Ever spend any time near or around the Rio Grande? Know where the term "wetback" comes from? The term isn't used to describe a certain race of people, but people coming into the our country illegally.
Now, spend some time driving around in the south in town, and sooner or later your bound to pick up some racists remarks
Big words never impressed me
Actually I'm from Oklahoma, and yes I lived around, worked with, and are friends with many Americans of Hispanic heritage. You stated that they would have their documentation in order, so you were talking about the entire ethnic group whether they be here legally or otherwise.
If you want to be a racist, that's your right, but don't backtrack when someone calls you out on it.
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
You're the racist for picking on white guys who are just calling a spade a spade. If a bunch of 20-something year-old black youths were sitting around, slammin down a few Colt 45's and talking about the "pasty-faced honkey white trash," that they have to work for, your mouth would be silent. But you have no problem picking on the white guys for calling an illegal a wetback. You crack me up.
mak2
Active member
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
Jev, do you remember the 60's? You would have been right at home, in the south. Oh and by the way, not all black people drink Colt 45's. I have drank some very nice IPA's with a black guy just this week. Your comments are racial slurs, no matter what else you say.
Jev, do you remember the 60's? You would have been right at home, in the south. Oh and by the way, not all black people drink Colt 45's. I have drank some very nice IPA's with a black guy just this week. Your comments are racial slurs, no matter what else you say.
dzalphakilo
Banned
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
Where did I state that "they would have their documentation in order?
I beleive what I said was
I'm not back tracking on a darn thing. By having the "docmentation figured out", I mean that when new rules are in place, people who break the rules usually figure out new ways to circumvent those new rules. If you're circumventing the new rules, you're doing so most likely because you're here illegally, thus I used the term "wetback", because those people ARE here illegally.
Dude, if your comment were coming from some of the people I know in this world (who happend not be "white" or not "christian"), it would probably hurt my feelings that someone would think that of me. Coming from a guy from what looks to be in your avatar on an internet forum, I'm kind of laughing my ass off.
Likewise, not all young black males walk the streets with their pants hanging down past their kneecaps with a baseball cap on sideways, walking a pitbull.
Where did I state that "they would have their documentation in order?
I beleive what I said was
I'm not back tracking on a darn thing. By having the "docmentation figured out", I mean that when new rules are in place, people who break the rules usually figure out new ways to circumvent those new rules. If you're circumventing the new rules, you're doing so most likely because you're here illegally, thus I used the term "wetback", because those people ARE here illegally.
Dude, if your comment were coming from some of the people I know in this world (who happend not be "white" or not "christian"), it would probably hurt my feelings that someone would think that of me. Coming from a guy from what looks to be in your avatar on an internet forum, I'm kind of laughing my ass off.
Likewise, not all young black males walk the streets with their pants hanging down past their kneecaps with a baseball cap on sideways, walking a pitbull.
Re: "Show us your papers!" AZ law will force people to prove citizenship to police...
The wetbacks need to go home. End of conversation. If you don't want them deported, then take them into your home and be responsible for them and their families.