• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

Using semi/synthetic oil in Snow Trac

First
My Snow Master is about to need oil added. Problem is previous short term owner doesn’t know what owner before was using for oil.
I read an article that said the VW engines don’t like it when you mix oil brand /wt. So I am thinking about changing to a semi-synthetic
that is the same as I run in my other vehicles. My normal outside temperature range for the Snow Master is -20F to +35F so I am thinking
5W30 should work well. My machine has 880 miles and 260 hours on the gauges which I believe are relatively correct.
Opinions? Yes-No-Maybe?

Second
At the warmer temps(30F) I am showing, 240F oil temps. I have about a 2.5 mile slow climb and have been stopping and idling until
temps drop to 200-220F then continuing. Thinking I am going to need to add an aux oil cooler. Any recommendations would be
appreciated. I would like to keep it under the hood to reduce chances of damage!

Thanks
 

schmidt

Member
On our ST4 with a rebuilt 1600 VW engine, we use 15-40w diesel oil, which should run cooler then synthetic oils, is what I was told. We are located in WA so temps are typically in the 20-30's. We don't have an oil temp gauge, however the engine runs well.
 

georgeofdesert

Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Just bought an st4 with an ae series rebuilt in 2015. Has an external cooler without fan on the fender and an external oil filter also mounted outside. . Was running about 80 psi initially, I removed the oil pressure boost kit and switched initially to 5-30 mobil 1 but still ran 50psi+. Now have penz 0-20 full synth with stp zinc additive. I really need cold start capability.
Now runs 40-50 psi, idles down to 30, warmest it has got is about 160 F. I put on the biggest oil filter that would fit for more surface area, so far it is an easy way to verify temps by touching the filter.
 

western auto

Active member
i run valvoline vr1 oil in all my air cooled vws , i used to run rotella 15-40 but they reformulated that and removed most of the zinc etc
 

Cidertom

Chionophile
GOLD Site Supporter
Some, not all of the synths are rated much higher temps. I had an unfortunate event a couple of years ago. the oil temp got to 360+and when looked at after, you couldn't tell it. Traditional oil would have smelled burnt.
 

georgeofdesert

Member
GOLD Site Supporter
On our ST4 with a rebuilt 1600 VW engine, we use 15-40w diesel oil, which should run cooler then synthetic oils, is what I was told. We are located in WA so temps are typically in the 20-30's. We don't have an oil temp gauge, however the engine runs well.
Mine came with an oil temp gauge installed, but it doesn't look too difficult to install an electric one. I understand these vw engines really don't like heat.
 

willd

Member
I am not sure about the compatibility with your engine seals but synthetics do flow better when cold. Some are much better about high-heat than others as well. I have switched over to Quaker State ultimate durability in my air-cooled and high heat stuff. There is a blog, some hate him for being opinionated but he has run some tests to high temps and the ultimate durability oil didn't lose as much protection at higher temps than some of the others. There are boutique oils that are better, Amsoil for one but I can get this stuff at my Walmart for $18 for a 5 quart container. I use the 10W-30 but I don't deal with the extreme cold you do. 5w-20 or 5w-30 might be better.

As for cooling, the thinner the oil, the faster it circulates. When you are talking about cooler ratings and temperature drop in oil, flow is the only way to get the btu's out of the oil. I would run as thin of oil as you can get, that still gives you acceptable hot oil pressure at idle. If that means you have to run 10W-40 because the motor is worn out, that's what you have to do but thinner is better when it comes to flowing while cold and flow rate through a cooler.

As for the quality of his oil tests. I have a suburban with the 5.3 and the active fuel management. Using regular valvoline 5w-30 it was sucking a quart every 300 miles and the lifters were noisy at idle. With only 120K on it I thought that was b.s. so I flushed the motor with some motor flush to help clean the nasty residue out from the prior owner and switched to the Quaker State and now runs about 3500 - 4000 miles before it sucks a quart, sometimes more. Oil pressure is improved but that isn't the biggest improvement. I no longer have noisy lifters and they pump up a lot faster on cold starts, even below freezing temps.

The blog is https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
 
Last edited:

willd

Member
Here are 2 of the high temp compatible oils he has tested. He recommends an oil with a higher top number than a 30 for air-cooled motors but it's hard to argue with a wear test. Only true test is your hot oil pressure reading at idle.

2. 5W30 Tribodyn, synthetic = 135,434 psi
This oil has no API certifications, but the bottle claims that the oil meets the API SN specs. The bottle also says do NOT use this as break-in oil, and also that this oil is NOT recommended for wet clutch applications. It also cautions to shake the bottle well before use. NOTE: I always thoroughly shake every bottle of oil before performing my Engineering Torture Test on it. This oil is made in the U.S.A, and was tested summer 2020.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
The psi value of this oil, which came from testing it at the normal operating test temperature of 230*F, put it in the FANTASTIC Wear Protection Category. However, I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, most hotter and thinner oils typically experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. However, this is one of those rare motor oils that produced an increase in its wear protection capability at higher temperature. It produced 143,801 psi at 275*F, which was up 6% from its 230*F value. And even at that elevated temperature, this much hotter and thinner oil was of course still in the FANTASTIC Wear Protection Category. I also tested this oil to find out its onset of thermal breakdown, which was 280*F.
At the time of this writing, I had tested 240 motor oils. And this oil produced the highest wear protection psi values I have ever seen from a motor oil just as it comes, right out of the bottle. Very impressive for an oil that few people have even heard of. However, it fell wildly short of the wear protection capability that this maker claimed it produced in a European University wear protection capability test. In that test, they claimed 5W30 Tribodyn street oil produced 54 times, yes 54 times as much psi as 0W40 Amsoil Signature Series oil. Of course a claim like that is totally absurd, and insults our intelligence. As you can see just below, Amsoil Signature Series oils were the highest ranked oils of all the oils I had tested, until I did this test on 5W30 Tribodyn synthetic oil. And the Tribodyn actually produced only slightly better psi numbers than Amsoil. Buyer beware of blatant false advertising.

6. 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, dexos 1 – Gen 2, API SN “Plus”, synthetic (green bottle) = 133,125 psi
This oil was tested again in late 2019 for two reasons:
1. It became available with the API SN “Plus” certification, so there was an interest in seeing if there were any changes in its performance.
2. This oil was purchased at Walmart. And that was significant because it was so shockingly cheap at Walmart, compared to mainstream Auto Parts Stores, that there were concerns that Walmart might be selling counterfeit oil. Here’s why:
This oil was purchased at Walmart in late 2019, where the price was about $6.00 per quart bottle, and about $20.00 per 5 quart jug. At the same time, a few miles away, this oil’s price at Pep Boys Auto Parts Store was about $9.00 per quart, and about $35.00 per 5 quart jug. So, there was a need to find out if this oil being sold so cheap at Walmart was legitimate or not. Sure, you could say that Walmart makes such large purchases that it gets a break on price. But then, you could say the same thing about Pep Boys Auto Parts chain stores. But, the proof was in the pudding as they say. And as you can see by the psi value and ranking position above, this is the best performing 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, that I’ve ever tested. So, Walmart gets a clean bill of health. They are selling legitimate QSUD, and there is nothing to be concerned about. Now, we would have a hard time justifying buying this oil anywhere besides Walmart.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
The psi value of this oil, which came from testing it at the normal operating test temperature of 230*F, put it in the FANTASTIC Wear Protection Category.
However, I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. And this oil did have a 13% drop in capability. However, even at that reduced value down to 115,764 psi, this much hotter and thinner oil was in the INCREDIBLE Wear Protection Category.
I also tested this oil to find out its onset of thermal breakdown, which was 275*F
 
Top