Republicans fuel the uptick in unruly airline passengers

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I don't dispute that most anti-maskers are Republicans.

I don't dispute that anti-maskers cause problems on airlines.

But I do ask what part of actual science shows that mask mandates actually make any significant difference in the spread of covid. I ask how a cotton mask can do anything? Yes, I will agree that an N95 mask (or better) is actually effective. But a cotton mask ... surgical mask ... are those statistically effective?

Statistical analysis shows they are actually not very effective at all. Even the CDC data shows that mask mandates may have just over a 1% effectiveness at slowing covid; this is largely because the public is using ineffective masks.

Most people actually treat their masks improperly. Most are shoved in pockets, reused, filthy. How many are worn below the nose? How many are closely fitted to the face versus worn loosely so exhaled air can escape the sides?

Is a simple mask mandate actually following real science? Or social science? If you want to argue that we should have had an N95 mask mandate then I'd totally support you. But if you are actually going to argue that any mask is helpful then, if I ever thought about, would have to think less of you. Most people's masks are about as sanitary as a used diaper, people wear them below their nose, re-use disposable masks, stuff them into dirty pockets, etc.


Importantly, the evidence just is and was not there to support mask use for asymptomatic people to stop viral spread during a pandemic. While the evidence may seem conflicted, the evidence (including the peer-reviewed evidence) actually does not support its use and leans heavily toward masks having no significant impact in stopping spread of the Covid virus.
In fact, it is not unreasonable at this time to conclude that surgical and cloth masks, used as they currently are, have absolutely no impact on controlling the transmission of Covid-19 virus, and current evidence implies that face masks can be actually harmful.

The article below has dozens of footnotes that show how ineffective cotton and disposable surgical masks really are, in actual use. Bear in mind that disposable surgical masks are effective for some things, but stopping a virus is not one of them. And they must be properly used, and must be sanitary and close fitting.

Even N95 masks have limited lifespans, must be treated properly, must be fitted properly, but if everyone wore them the reality is that Covid probably would have been curtailed. Instead our governments sold us a bogus mask mandate that just said we should cover our faces. Me and my family, we wore N95 masks because we are not idiots. Follow the link below, and the footnotes for REAL science.


Oh and let's not forget the New England Journal of Medicine ...
  • We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 20 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.”
 

CrakHoBarbie

Active member
I don't dispute that most anti-maskers are Republicans.

I don't dispute that anti-maskers cause problems on airlines.

But I do ask what part of actual science shows that mask mandates actually make any significant difference in the spread of covid. I ask how a cotton mask can do anything? Yes, I will agree that an N95 mask (or better) is actually effective. But a cotton mask ... surgical mask ... are those statistically effective?

Statistical analysis shows they are actually not very effective at all. Even the CDC data shows that mask mandates may have just over a 1% effectiveness at slowing covid; this is largely because the public is using ineffective masks.

Most people actually treat their masks improperly. Most are shoved in pockets, reused, filthy. How many are worn below the nose? How many are closely fitted to the face versus worn loosely so exhaled air can escape the sides?

Is a simple mask mandate actually following real science? Or social science? If you want to argue that we should have had an N95 mask mandate then I'd totally support you. But if you are actually going to argue that any mask is helpful then, if I ever thought about, would have to think less of you. Most people's masks are about as sanitary as a used diaper, people wear them below their nose, re-use disposable masks, stuff them into dirty pockets, etc.


Importantly, the evidence just is and was not there to support mask use for asymptomatic people to stop viral spread during a pandemic. While the evidence may seem conflicted, the evidence (including the peer-reviewed evidence) actually does not support its use and leans heavily toward masks having no significant impact in stopping spread of the Covid virus.
In fact, it is not unreasonable at this time to conclude that surgical and cloth masks, used as they currently are, have absolutely no impact on controlling the transmission of Covid-19 virus, and current evidence implies that face masks can be actually harmful.

The article below has dozens of footnotes that show how ineffective cotton and disposable surgical masks really are, in actual use. Bear in mind that disposable surgical masks are effective for some things, but stopping a virus is not one of them. And they must be properly used, and must be sanitary and close fitting.

Even N95 masks have limited lifespans, must be treated properly, must be fitted properly, but if everyone wore them the reality is that Covid probably would have been curtailed. Instead our governments sold us a bogus mask mandate that just said we should cover our faces. Me and my family, we wore N95 masks because we are not idiots. Follow the link below, and the footnotes for REAL science.


Oh and let's not forget the New England Journal of Medicine ...
  • We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 20 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.”
This thread is about the uptick in unruly airline passengers. It's not about justifying their unruliness.
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Democrats should just wear a used diaper on their stupid mugs. :lmao:
F'ing criminal idiots. :furious:
 
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Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
This thread is about the uptick in unruly airline passengers. It's not about justifying their unruliness.
It is in the DEBATE area of the forum, we give lots of leeway to the threads and do not hold them to a strict code, as we do in other areas.

Now with that out of the way you specifically said: "angry anti-masker obstinate bully MAGA fools are forcing their boneheaded anti-science philosophies" and I responded to your full of crap claim about the bonehead MAGA fools being anti-science. In fact, science and serious scrutiny of statistical evidence seems to prove them correct. While they may be unsurely jerks on airplanes, they are the real party of science and the empty headed liberal democrats are the real dimwitted science deniers.
 

CrakHoBarbie

Active member
It is in the DEBATE area of the forum, we give lots of leeway to the threads and do not hold them to a strict code, as we do in other areas.

Now with that out of the way you specifically said: "angry anti-masker obstinate bully MAGA fools are forcing their boneheaded anti-science philosophies" and I responded to your full of crap claim about the bonehead MAGA fools being anti-science. In fact, science and serious scrutiny of statistical evidence seems to prove them correct. While they may be unsurely jerks on airplanes, they are the real party of science and the empty headed liberal democrats are the real dimwitted science deniers.
And yet masks, keeping distance and washing hands did dramatically lower the rate of flu infection for the entire duration of the pandemic. So, one could logically assume that masking up, keeping our distance and washing hands may of actually dramatically lowered the instances of covid. One thing that Republicans refused to acknowledge (and still do) is that erring on the side of safety (wearing a mask, keeping distance, washing hands) was, and is, the logical step to take because, after all, those steps did wipe out the flu for the year. But All you MAGA engrained Republicans just want to dig your heels in. Demand you know what's best. And not even bother to take logical safety precautions. And youve still got your heels dug in. Still obstinent to the end. But hey.....you be you. David Bowie said it best:" look at those cavemen go". That's what comes to mind when I think of MAGA. I'm embarrassed.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
And yet masks, keeping distance and washing hands did dramatically lower the rate of flu infection for the entire duration of the pandemic.
Bold claim. Cite your proof.

Further you are now muddying the waters by adding DISTANCE + HAND WASHING

What if only DISTANCE was the real reason? Can you prove it is one and not the other? Or that 2 of the 3 were the contributing factors?
 

CrakHoBarbie

Active member
Bold claim. Cite your proof.

Further you are now muddying the waters by adding DISTANCE + HAND WASHING

What if only DISTANCE was the real reason? Can you prove it is one and not the other? Or that 2 of the 3 were the contributing factors?
Wow. I thought you, being a well informed conscientious conservative, would be well aware of the dramatic drop in influenza during 2020. Now, when we think of droplets in the air, masks cut down droplets from a cough or sneeze. If you don't agree, I can cite proof. Distance is a big factor. But hey, why not error on the side of safety? Oh! I tell you what! Let's go with the MAGA method! Let's refuse to wear masks then get abusive and obstinent when challenged. Why didn't I think of that? The MAGA method is so much more logical and shows great compassion for ones fellow man. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937a6.htm
 
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Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
LOL if that is your science then liberals have abandoned not only science but rational thought.


Virus particles are minuscule and blow right through masks, the virus is actually airborne. Your little photos show that most spittle, which are giant size objects in comparison to the Coronavirus, get partially stopped by masks. That stuff coming through in the photos on the right side, those are 100x larger than virus particles.

But your little photos were disputed by literally dozens of footnotes and actual studies.

Seriously photos pass for proof now? No wonder the US is falling so far behind in education.

I dispute your pictographs with dozens more footnotes and critical analysis.

 

CrakHoBarbie

Active member
LOL if that is your science then liberals have abandoned not only science but rational thought.



Virus particles are minuscule and blow right through masks, the virus is actually airborne. Your little photos show that most spittle, which are giant size objects in comparison to the Coronavirus, get partially stopped by masks.

But your little photos were disputed by literally dozens of footnotes and actual studies.

Seriously photos pass for proof now? No wonder the US is falling so far behind in education.

I dispute your pictographs with dozens more footnotes and critical analysis.

So you think that those microscopic particles are going to blow right through that mask with the same velocity as if the mask weren't there? That's arguable. And, you appearently also believe it makes perfect sense to angrily refuse to wear a mask when on an aircraft? Keep in mind, these people knew the mask was a requirement before they got on the plane. Yet, once aboard, they decide nows the time to become obstinent and abrasive and waste everyone else's time while getting themselves banned from flying on that carrier ever again? That seems fair and logical to you?
 

CrakHoBarbie

Active member
so you are going to be unruly to not justify unruliness, got it
I have flown during the pandemic and i was forced to comply with the rules. Rules I knew I would have to follow before I got on the jet. I didn't act like an obstinent MAGA'ite, angrily forcing my unsolicited opinion on folks just trying to get from point A to B. Maybe you can enlighten me on what these fools are hoping to accomplish.
 

m1west

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I have flown during the pandemic and i was forced to comply with the rules. Rules I knew I would have to follow before I got on the jet. I didn't act like an obstinent MAGA'ite, angrily forcing my unsolicited opinion on folks just trying to get from point A to B. Maybe you can enlighten me on what these fools are hoping to accomplish.
I am speculating, but likely they don't want be forced to comply with waring something that has been scientifically proven to be generally ineffective, and is a feel good gesture that is not doing anymore good than a lucky rabbits foot in your pocket.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
So you think that those microscopic particles are going to blow right through that mask with the same velocity as if the mask weren't there? . . . blah blah blah
I made no such claim.

I simply provided numerous articles with dozens of references to actual science, actual statistical data, and relevant information about how mask mandates don't actually work.

Apparently you love to falsely intuit that which is neither said nor implied. You further deny actual science and instead accept simplistic videos that clearly show that they don't even stop all spittle, particles monumentally larger in size than a virus.
 

CrakHoBarbie

Active member
I made no such claim.

I simply provided numerous articles with dozens of references to actual science, actual statistical data, and relevant information about how mask mandates don't actually work.

Apparently you love to falsely intuit that which is neither said nor implied. You further deny actual science and instead accept simplistic videos that clearly show that they don't even stop all spittle, particles monumentally larger in size than a virus.
You need to stand by your contentions. You stated, and I quote: "Virus particles are minuscule and blow right through masks".... I didn't make that up. You did. Now your saying that wasn't what you meant? What I said was it's better to error on the side of safety by using masks, personal space and hand washing. Your the one who decided it would be prudent to go off on a maga tirade about mask inefficiency.
 

CrakHoBarbie

Active member
I am speculating, but likely they don't want be forced to comply with waring something that has been scientifically proven to be generally ineffective, and is a feel good gesture that is not doing anymore good than a lucky rabbits foot in your pocket.
If they were not planning on following the mask mandate set by the airlines, they shouldn't of boarded the plane. And now, because of their obstinate attitude's they will be rewarded with being kicked off their flight, a hefty fine, being banned by the carrier and possible arrest. I hope each and every one of them enjoy getting what they asked for.
 
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